ITV daytime is a mess. The Speakmans is just the latest in a long line of massive afternoon flops like Jo Frosts's Family Matters and Auf Weidersehn My Pet.
Jeremy Kyle is holding up in the early part of the day but This Morning and Loose Women are both showing big declines.
The least said about GMB the better.
Indeed. The numbers will go up in September but even so some of the current ratings are appalling. These 2pm formats have been rating so badly and they end up denting the 3pm shows too. Personally I'd scrap Loose Women as it seems to be in terminal decline and move the news to 12.30pm. Then out of that try and launch a new lunchtime format at 1pm. 2pm and 3pm could contain a mix of current solid shows like Dickinson's Real Deal, 60 Minute Makeover, Britain's Best Bakery and Secret Dealers along with new formats. The new formats should be fun and upbeat, not Americanised over the top serious rubbish like The Speakmans and Jo Frost. I suspect Judge Rinder will go the same way. Who's Doing The Dishes might do a bit better though. They could maybe use these slots to launch new gameshows like Ejector Seat too rather than disrupting the established 4-6pm block. Perhaps try and find a new chatshow to replace Alan Titchmarsh too (who apparently has also seen big declines this year). Paul O'Grady doesn't do well enough at 5pm any more but rather than axe his show they could move it to 1pm or 3pm. I really don't think it's all that difficult to turn most of it around (the 2-4pm slot especially) but some of the new shows recently have just screamed flop and I don't know what they were thinking. The fact the best ratings they've had at 2pm recently was for Celebrity Jeremy Kyle (I think?) says it all.
Good Morning Britain is a lost cause. I don't see much point in changing things at this point as any change will only make things even worse. Just leave it where it is and focus on making the show better (getting rid of the likes of Kate Garraway and Richard Arnold is a must) and steadying the ship. I don't think there's much else they can do at this point. The show probably turns a profit for them anyway as Steve Williams pointed out yesterday (or will do before long). It seems clear that launching another new format won't work.
Finding something for 1pm to replace Loose Women would be tough too but they just need to try several new shows for a few weeks each and see if something sticks. That's how they found Jeremy Kyle when they lost Trisha.
Moving the news on ITV to 12.30pm would work. Then ditch Loose Women move Murder She Wrote etc - just repeats of old American shows which ITV do have the rights into the 1pm slot, providing an alternative to the BBC One News.
2pm I would do as Score has suggested, and have Paul O Grady slotted in there, but I wouldn't call it the O'Grady show. I would call it Afternoon Live or something like that, being a chat show format but every 6 weeks, the host changes. You would only need 4 regular hosts for the show based on 6 week runs, 2 runs each year.
3pm Dickinsons Real Deals/Makeover etc
It would give ITV a little bit of a shake up in the afternoons especially considering shows like Loose Women are losing their appeal now.
So "EastEnders" share is dropping compared to the Olympics move to BBC TWO it suffered in 2012. The decline is considerable but needs to be stopped by the unreasonable moves to BBC TWO and clashes with "Emmerdale" they should take it right away from ITV anytime they try pitching "Emmerdale" for an hour against it. It perhaps needs rescheduled to 8pm every evening.
So "EastEnders" share is dropping compared to the Olympics move to BBC TWO it suffered in 2012. The decline is considerable but needs to be stopped by the unreasonable moves to BBC TWO and clashes with "Emmerdale" they should take it right away from ITV anytime they try pitching "Emmerdale" for an hour against it. It perhaps needs rescheduled to 8pm every evening.
Of course, it won't help EastEnders if every two years it is shipped off to BBC Two because of the Olympics.
Do we really expect BBC to do this for BBC One in two years time? It is in Rio of course...
06:00 - Olympic Breakfast
10:00 - Yesterday at the Games
12:00 - BBC News
12:30 - BBC Regional News
12:45 - Olympics 2016
18:00 - BBC News
18:30 - BBC Regional News
19:00 - Olympics 2016
23:00 - BBC News
23:25 - BBC Regional News
23:35 to 04:00 - Olympics 2016
No because clearly there is a chunk of the audience who watch in HD and if 12 episodes of a 13 part run have a simulcast HD screening and one week it airs 2 hours later then I still think it should be included as I suspect most of the usual HD viewers will have stuck with the HD screening and just watched it slightly later. Considering same day timeshift is included in the overnight ratings anyway then it would be absurd to exclude that HD rating.
Well I seem to recall at the time in the DW ratings thread the HD rating was never included in the overall series average and when the series averages have been reported in the past its always had an average of 7.70m.
The overnight rating would not have included HD so why would the official rating?
The fact the best ratings they've had at 2pm recently was for Celebrity Jeremy Kyle (I think?) says it all.
The real concern is that even with an established brand and some PR, even that didn't rate very well. AFAIK, it's the team that make Kyle that have been behind the current string of 2pm shows with Helen Warner looking for human interest for the afternoon done softer than Kyle.
It's plainly not working though. Judge Rinder might be the last shot in that slot before they have to change strategy. O'Grady and gameshows might be a good idea. BBC News is also an issue, especially followed by Doctors as it means the 2pm slot on ITV starts midway through Doctors. The strength of that 1pm hour on BBC is why Loose Women gets away with slightly lower shares.
The Guardian are reporting that The Sun are reporting (just when did all this reporting of reports start) that ITV have spent £1 million on the trailer for ........... The X Factor.
The real concern is that even with an established brand and some PR, even that didn't rate very well. AFAIK, it's the team that make Kyle that have been behind the current string of 2pm shows with Helen Warner looking for human interest for the afternoon done softer than Kyle.
It's plainly not working though. Judge Rinder might be the last shot in that slot before they have to change strategy. O'Grady and gameshows might be a good idea. BBC News is also an issue, especially followed by Doctors as it means the 2pm slot on ITV starts midway through Doctors. The strength of that 1pm hour on BBC is why Loose Women gets away with slightly lower shares.
Did Celebrity Jeremy Kyle not do much either then? I remember the first episode got about 850,000 (inc +1) which looked fine for June, albeit a fair but lower than what he does in the morning. I can see why it didn't have the appeal of his morning show as it was softer than the morning show (kind of working against what seems to make the morning show work) and it was just one celebrity per episode, so much like Piers Morgan's Life Stories, if you've got no interest that celebrity then why bother watching?
Loose Women hasn't been doing well lately but the numbers for Gino & Mel make it look great! They seem to want it to be more serious and news based but I'm not sure that's the right approach for it or why it has worked in the past. They need to look at what works for them and has worked before and this human interest stuff is dying on its arse.
Moving the news to 12.30pm would avoid the ridiculous news overlap they have at the moment and mean they could go for something light and fluffy to counter the news at 1pm. They need to go for light hearted and fun in the afternoons I think. I'd give Ejector Seat another shot maybe in an earlier slot (and make a few changes to it as it has potential but from what I saw of it the execution wasn't great). O'Grady could definitely be worth a go earlier in the day. They could try and get a new chatshow off the ground to rotate it with O'Grady. If they don't want to axe Loose Women then maybe give it a go at 1pm and make it lighter. It's an established brand at least I guess.
More 30 minute formats could work too. Not everything has to be an hour and for gameshows especially it could help. They could pair a 30 minute gameshow up with something like May The Best House Win in the 3pm hour. Even 30 minute episodes of Dickinson's Real Deal. There are lots of options on the table but this human interest rubbish has got to go. The ratings are so toxic it's dragging the 3pm shows down too.
The first and most important thing they need to do first is move the afternoon news to 12;30pm and get that jump on BBC1. At the moment they are starting 30minutes behind News at One and its affecting the whole line-up as viewers flock to the news programme that's on first.
Jeremy Kyle did fairly well at 2pm with figures over 800k, so I think Judge Rinder might do better that what's in that slot presently.
They should commission a daytime series of Police, Camera, Action which is usually popular with daytime viewers. And do some police docs that follow the action of a police station during their work. Police Patrol: UK etc.
The entire ITV schedule needs a good shake up and new programmes in place.
Loose Women should be moved to ITVBe or ITV2 where they have a younger audience and maker more of a profit from the younger viewers watching. ITV need their daytime line-up to be bigger in numbers even if they don't make that much money. Boost the all day share.
Of course, it won't help EastEnders if every two years it is shipped off to BBC Two because of the Olympics.
Do we really expect BBC to do this for BBC One in two years time? It is in Rio of course...
06:00 - Olympic Breakfast
10:00 - Yesterday at the Games
12:00 - BBC News
12:30 - BBC Regional News
12:45 - Olympics 2016
18:00 - BBC News
18:30 - BBC Regional News
19:00 - Olympics 2016
23:00 - BBC News
23:25 - BBC Regional News
23:35 to 04:00 - Olympics 2016
I do not think it will be wise if BBC one to move it again. Every time it moves it becomes weaker and more brittle in the ratings. They need to reschedule it to a singular time slot at 8pm and screen it away from "Emmerdale" from now on or risk losing it as their primetime show. Maybe they don't care enough how it performs all year round if it peaks when they want it to, very dangerous to let viewers drift off
I do not think it will be wise if BBC one to move it again. Every time it moves it becomes weaker and more brittle in the ratings. They need to reschedule it to a singular time slot at 8pm and screen it away from "Emmerdale" from now on or risk losing it as their primetime show. Maybe they don't care enough how it performs all year round if it peaks when they want it to, very dangerous to let viewers drift off
I think they care because they recently injected a whole lot more money into it; the problem is with the schedulers. Recently they ran trails without actually saying what time it was on ! The switch to BBC2 was given minimal publicity.The omnibus is pushed from pillar to post when it used to be a Sunday afternoon staple. With friends like that in scheduling who needs enemies ?
The first and most important thing they need to do first is move the afternoon news to 12;30pm and get that jump on BBC1. At the moment they are starting 30minutes behind News at One and its affecting the whole line-up as viewers flock to the news programme that's on first.
Jeremy Kyle did fairly well at 2pm with figures over 800k, so I think Judge Rinder might do better that what's in that slot presently.
I don't know, I saw him being interviewed on Granada tonight and he seems to have the personality of a Gnat. The reason the Judge Judy works is because of her, its instantly quotable and the one liners and put downs are fantastic entertainment value, there's no entertainment in court cases otherwise so its down to the personalities to carry it and I don't think he has any (I may be proved wrong but he also talks like a stereotypical Barrister (and is practicing I think) which might be a little off putting for the ITV Daytime Audience) If this is meant to be ITV's Daytime Saviour then they need some fresh thinking in there fast!
The real concern is that even with an established brand and some PR, even that didn't rate very well. AFAIK, it's the team that make Kyle that have been behind the current string of 2pm shows with Helen Warner looking for human interest for the afternoon done softer than Kyle.
It's plainly not working though. Judge Rinder might be the last shot in that slot before they have to change strategy. O'Grady and gameshows might be a good idea. BBC News is also an issue, especially followed by Doctors as it means the 2pm slot on ITV starts midway through Doctors. The strength of that 1pm hour on BBC is why Loose Women gets away with slightly lower shares.
It would be a risk but it could be the right time to move the lunchtime news back to 12.30pm, with Loose Women following on at 1pm. On one hand it might boost the 2pm programme if Loose Women manages to sustain its audience, but at the same time viewers might switch off after This Morning and not bother coming back. ITV daytime viewers are probably bored by 1.30pm, because the schedule is 'live' broadcasts until 2pm, all of which are very similar shows.
I do not think it will be wise if BBC one to move it again. Every time it moves it becomes weaker and more brittle in the ratings. They need to reschedule it to a singular time slot at 8pm and screen it away from "Emmerdale" from now on or risk losing it as their primetime show. Maybe they don't care enough how it performs all year round if it peaks when they want it to, very dangerous to let viewers drift off
The ratings have shown that it probably would have made no difference to the Games if they were shown on BBC Two for an hour or so to show the soaps on BBC One. I know the Olympics is different, but BBC really need to think next time. I've suggested they either go on a two week break (ideal for having a big cliffhanger like Ozzie soaps do or used to do) or cut back to just two episodes that week.
I don't know, I saw him being interviewed on Granada tonight and he seems to have the personality of a Gnat. The reason the Judge Judy works is because of her, its instantly quotable and the one liners and put downs are fantastic entertainment value, there's no entertainment in court cases otherwise so its down to the personalities to carry it and I don't think he has any (I may be proved wrong but he also talks like a stereotypical Barrister (and is practicing I think) which might be a little off putting for the ITV Daytime Audience) If this is meant to be ITV's Daytime Saviour then they need some fresh thinking in there fast!
The People's Court was a flop as well so I'm not sure if Judge Rinder can succeed. The court show formats has never took off in the UK like it has in America whereas the Springer format has been successful emultated with the likes of Jeremy Kyle and his format works mostly because of him.
The ratings have shown that it probably would have made no difference to the Games if they were shown on BBC Two for an hour or so to show the soaps on BBC One.
It might have affected coverage and schedules timings die to the nature of live events not running to the published Games schedule, meaning delayed starts/exits
Did Celebrity Jeremy Kyle not do much either then? I remember the first episode got about 850,000 (inc +1) which looked fine for June, albeit a fair but lower than what he does in the morning. I can see why it didn't have the appeal of his morning show as it was softer than the morning show (kind of working against what seems to make the morning show work) and it was just one celebrity per episode, so much like Piers Morgan's Life Stories, if you've got no interest that celebrity then why bother watching?
More 30 minute formats could work too. Not everything has to be an hour and for gameshows especially it could help. They could pair a 30 minute gameshow up with something like May The Best House Win in the 3pm hour. Even 30 minute episodes of Dickinson's Real Deal. There are lots of options on the table but this human interest rubbish has got to go. The ratings are so toxic it's dragging the 3pm shows down too.
I don't have the numbers to hand but I think it started with 800k+ for Barrymore(?) but was down to the 600's very quickly.
30's might help although daytime budgets really need to eek out every last drop of value so that might be an issue.
The Guardian are reporting that The Sun are reporting (just when did all this reporting of reports start) that ITV have spent £1 million on the trailer for ........... The X Factor.
It would be a risk but it could be the right time to move the lunchtime news back to 12.30pm, with Loose Women following on at 1pm. On one hand it might boost the 2pm programme if Loose Women manages to sustain its audience, but at the same time viewers might switch off after This Morning and not bother coming back. ITV daytime viewers are probably bored by 1.30pm, because the schedule is 'live' broadcasts until 2pm, all of which are very similar shows.
There is no point moving the news to 12.30pm on ITV if the programmes afterwards still suck. Bargain Hunt would probably end up with an even bigger audience. I think they made a mistake axing Des and Mel. That show did well for them.
Paul O'Grady got his chat show due to his performance sitting in for Des on the show. His chat show now should be on at 3pm leading into Tipping Point or 4pm leading into The Chase. It doesn't work at 5pm anymore.
The Guardian are reporting that The Sun are reporting (just when did all this reporting of reports start) that ITV have spent £1 million on the trailer for ........... The X Factor.
Rounded up to the nearest million... I'm sure this means that expectations must be higher than ever and only an 11 million launch will suffice! ;-)
With that amount of money spent on a trailer alone it better do well! I think a high launch figure for X Factor is possible....and for Doctor Who as well.
It might have affected coverage and schedules timings die to the nature of live events not running to the published Games schedule, meaning delayed starts/exits
Well all you'd need to do is put up a message saying this game/event continues on BBC Two now. I really don't get why viewers have so much trouble changing to a channel which available to all.
Comments
Indeed. The numbers will go up in September but even so some of the current ratings are appalling. These 2pm formats have been rating so badly and they end up denting the 3pm shows too. Personally I'd scrap Loose Women as it seems to be in terminal decline and move the news to 12.30pm. Then out of that try and launch a new lunchtime format at 1pm. 2pm and 3pm could contain a mix of current solid shows like Dickinson's Real Deal, 60 Minute Makeover, Britain's Best Bakery and Secret Dealers along with new formats. The new formats should be fun and upbeat, not Americanised over the top serious rubbish like The Speakmans and Jo Frost. I suspect Judge Rinder will go the same way. Who's Doing The Dishes might do a bit better though. They could maybe use these slots to launch new gameshows like Ejector Seat too rather than disrupting the established 4-6pm block. Perhaps try and find a new chatshow to replace Alan Titchmarsh too (who apparently has also seen big declines this year). Paul O'Grady doesn't do well enough at 5pm any more but rather than axe his show they could move it to 1pm or 3pm. I really don't think it's all that difficult to turn most of it around (the 2-4pm slot especially) but some of the new shows recently have just screamed flop and I don't know what they were thinking. The fact the best ratings they've had at 2pm recently was for Celebrity Jeremy Kyle (I think?) says it all.
Good Morning Britain is a lost cause. I don't see much point in changing things at this point as any change will only make things even worse. Just leave it where it is and focus on making the show better (getting rid of the likes of Kate Garraway and Richard Arnold is a must) and steadying the ship. I don't think there's much else they can do at this point. The show probably turns a profit for them anyway as Steve Williams pointed out yesterday (or will do before long). It seems clear that launching another new format won't work.
Finding something for 1pm to replace Loose Women would be tough too but they just need to try several new shows for a few weeks each and see if something sticks. That's how they found Jeremy Kyle when they lost Trisha.
EastEnders makes up 14 of the top 20 compared to only 2 in June 2013.
EastEnders 13/06/04 - 1.18m
EastEnders 23/06/04 - 1.16m
EastEnders 16/04/04 - 1.12m
EastEnders 18/06/04 - 1.12m
EastEnders 17/06/04 - 1.097m
EastEnders 27/06/04 - 1.055m
EastEnders 03/04/04 - 1.048m
EastEnders 06/06/04 - 1.039m
EastEnders 10/06/04 - 1.016m
EastEnders 12/06/04 - 996.000
EastEnders 24/06/04 - 995.000
EastEnders 20/06/04 - 981.000
EastEnders 05/06/04 - 872.000
EastEnders 02/06/04 - 871.000
2pm I would do as Score has suggested, and have Paul O Grady slotted in there, but I wouldn't call it the O'Grady show. I would call it Afternoon Live or something like that, being a chat show format but every 6 weeks, the host changes. You would only need 4 regular hosts for the show based on 6 week runs, 2 runs each year.
3pm Dickinsons Real Deals/Makeover etc
It would give ITV a little bit of a shake up in the afternoons especially considering shows like Loose Women are losing their appeal now.
Of course, it won't help EastEnders if every two years it is shipped off to BBC Two because of the Olympics.
Do we really expect BBC to do this for BBC One in two years time? It is in Rio of course...
06:00 - Olympic Breakfast
10:00 - Yesterday at the Games
12:00 - BBC News
12:30 - BBC Regional News
12:45 - Olympics 2016
18:00 - BBC News
18:30 - BBC Regional News
19:00 - Olympics 2016
23:00 - BBC News
23:25 - BBC Regional News
23:35 to 04:00 - Olympics 2016
Well I seem to recall at the time in the DW ratings thread the HD rating was never included in the overall series average and when the series averages have been reported in the past its always had an average of 7.70m.
The overnight rating would not have included HD so why would the official rating?
We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.
The real concern is that even with an established brand and some PR, even that didn't rate very well. AFAIK, it's the team that make Kyle that have been behind the current string of 2pm shows with Helen Warner looking for human interest for the afternoon done softer than Kyle.
It's plainly not working though. Judge Rinder might be the last shot in that slot before they have to change strategy. O'Grady and gameshows might be a good idea. BBC News is also an issue, especially followed by Doctors as it means the 2pm slot on ITV starts midway through Doctors. The strength of that 1pm hour on BBC is why Loose Women gets away with slightly lower shares.
A share drop of just -0.2% so far according to those figures above. Raw numbers look worse of course.
http://www.theguardian.com/media/mediamonkeyblog/2014/aug/01/x-factor-game-of-thrones-simon-cowell-cheryl-fernandez-versini-mel-b-louis-walsh
And so it begins .......
Did Celebrity Jeremy Kyle not do much either then? I remember the first episode got about 850,000 (inc +1) which looked fine for June, albeit a fair but lower than what he does in the morning. I can see why it didn't have the appeal of his morning show as it was softer than the morning show (kind of working against what seems to make the morning show work) and it was just one celebrity per episode, so much like Piers Morgan's Life Stories, if you've got no interest that celebrity then why bother watching?
Loose Women hasn't been doing well lately but the numbers for Gino & Mel make it look great! They seem to want it to be more serious and news based but I'm not sure that's the right approach for it or why it has worked in the past. They need to look at what works for them and has worked before and this human interest stuff is dying on its arse.
Moving the news to 12.30pm would avoid the ridiculous news overlap they have at the moment and mean they could go for something light and fluffy to counter the news at 1pm. They need to go for light hearted and fun in the afternoons I think. I'd give Ejector Seat another shot maybe in an earlier slot (and make a few changes to it as it has potential but from what I saw of it the execution wasn't great). O'Grady could definitely be worth a go earlier in the day. They could try and get a new chatshow off the ground to rotate it with O'Grady. If they don't want to axe Loose Women then maybe give it a go at 1pm and make it lighter. It's an established brand at least I guess.
More 30 minute formats could work too. Not everything has to be an hour and for gameshows especially it could help. They could pair a 30 minute gameshow up with something like May The Best House Win in the 3pm hour. Even 30 minute episodes of Dickinson's Real Deal. There are lots of options on the table but this human interest rubbish has got to go. The ratings are so toxic it's dragging the 3pm shows down too.
Jeremy Kyle did fairly well at 2pm with figures over 800k, so I think Judge Rinder might do better that what's in that slot presently.
They should commission a daytime series of Police, Camera, Action which is usually popular with daytime viewers. And do some police docs that follow the action of a police station during their work. Police Patrol: UK etc.
The entire ITV schedule needs a good shake up and new programmes in place.
Loose Women should be moved to ITVBe or ITV2 where they have a younger audience and maker more of a profit from the younger viewers watching. ITV need their daytime line-up to be bigger in numbers even if they don't make that much money. Boost the all day share.
I do not think it will be wise if BBC one to move it again. Every time it moves it becomes weaker and more brittle in the ratings. They need to reschedule it to a singular time slot at 8pm and screen it away from "Emmerdale" from now on or risk losing it as their primetime show. Maybe they don't care enough how it performs all year round if it peaks when they want it to, very dangerous to let viewers drift off
I think they care because they recently injected a whole lot more money into it; the problem is with the schedulers. Recently they ran trails without actually saying what time it was on ! The switch to BBC2 was given minimal publicity.The omnibus is pushed from pillar to post when it used to be a Sunday afternoon staple. With friends like that in scheduling who needs enemies ?
I don't know, I saw him being interviewed on Granada tonight and he seems to have the personality of a Gnat. The reason the Judge Judy works is because of her, its instantly quotable and the one liners and put downs are fantastic entertainment value, there's no entertainment in court cases otherwise so its down to the personalities to carry it and I don't think he has any (I may be proved wrong but he also talks like a stereotypical Barrister (and is practicing I think) which might be a little off putting for the ITV Daytime Audience) If this is meant to be ITV's Daytime Saviour then they need some fresh thinking in there fast!
It would be a risk but it could be the right time to move the lunchtime news back to 12.30pm, with Loose Women following on at 1pm. On one hand it might boost the 2pm programme if Loose Women manages to sustain its audience, but at the same time viewers might switch off after This Morning and not bother coming back. ITV daytime viewers are probably bored by 1.30pm, because the schedule is 'live' broadcasts until 2pm, all of which are very similar shows.
The ratings have shown that it probably would have made no difference to the Games if they were shown on BBC Two for an hour or so to show the soaps on BBC One. I know the Olympics is different, but BBC really need to think next time. I've suggested they either go on a two week break (ideal for having a big cliffhanger like Ozzie soaps do or used to do) or cut back to just two episodes that week.
The People's Court was a flop as well so I'm not sure if Judge Rinder can succeed. The court show formats has never took off in the UK like it has in America whereas the Springer format has been successful emultated with the likes of Jeremy Kyle and his format works mostly because of him.
I don't have the numbers to hand but I think it started with 800k+ for Barrymore(?) but was down to the 600's very quickly.
30's might help although daytime budgets really need to eek out every last drop of value so that might be an issue.
Rounded up to the nearest million... I'm sure this means that expectations must be higher than ever and only an 11 million launch will suffice! ;-)
There is no point moving the news to 12.30pm on ITV if the programmes afterwards still suck. Bargain Hunt would probably end up with an even bigger audience. I think they made a mistake axing Des and Mel. That show did well for them.
Paul O'Grady got his chat show due to his performance sitting in for Des on the show. His chat show now should be on at 3pm leading into Tipping Point or 4pm leading into The Chase. It doesn't work at 5pm anymore.
Well all you'd need to do is put up a message saying this game/event continues on BBC Two now. I really don't get why viewers have so much trouble changing to a channel which available to all.