Management - graduates v those who work their way up
big mac
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I was having a discussion at work with a colleague who, for a few years, used to work in the rail industry.
He was saying that the managment team in the company he worked at used to be made up of guys who used to work in the industry itself e.g. drivers, mechanics, ticket inspectors etc. and had slowly progressed up the company to be in positions of power.
However, he said that in later years, the people that were appointed started to change, and rather than having those who knew the rail industry specifically, were those who were more generic managers, having studied business or whatever other University course.
His opinion was the standard of management declined greatly after this, because they had no knowledge about how the actual nitty gritty of the industry worked, and merely were there to "balance the books".
So this made me think about what type of manager works better, not just in rail but anything. What do you think?
He was saying that the managment team in the company he worked at used to be made up of guys who used to work in the industry itself e.g. drivers, mechanics, ticket inspectors etc. and had slowly progressed up the company to be in positions of power.
However, he said that in later years, the people that were appointed started to change, and rather than having those who knew the rail industry specifically, were those who were more generic managers, having studied business or whatever other University course.
His opinion was the standard of management declined greatly after this, because they had no knowledge about how the actual nitty gritty of the industry worked, and merely were there to "balance the books".
So this made me think about what type of manager works better, not just in rail but anything. What do you think?
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Every single manager I have ever worked for that has come straight from Uni has been a complete tw*t, doesn't actually know anything about managing staff in the real world and of course, doesn't know the job. They also end up never getting invited to staff outings because nobody likes them
you do make me smile Mathers (in a good way btw)
In our company, managers are engineers who have taken management training on the job.
Graduates do not know the company well, they seek help from people below them and they're generally still stick in the university world, being over-analytical and buy into the corporate bullshit far too much.
If someone works their way up they already know the companies policies, the types of work they do, the dos and don'ts etc etc, whereas a newly appointed manager with (probably) no experience at all will have to go on a steep learning curve.
Your friend is so right. My dad worked for the railway as a booking clerk since 1955 and was made redundant in 1980's as a station manager in favour of a graduate who'd done his work training at Tesco. :mad:
A life time of industry knowledge lost thanks to Maggie's great privatisation breakdown. As it was everyone went - decades of experience gone and I believe there must be a mix. I am sure that long service can breed contempt maybe but it must be on a case by case basis. Trains were and still are my dad's passion and I have yet to see anyone at the same station with that much enthusiasm. New graduates can learn from that and from him but alone they were lost. Still are judging by the current state of the railway industry.
My husband was an apprentice printer for one of the countries oldest printing firms and was made redundant only to be re-employed six months later as nobody knew his specialist job. Luckily for us it did not affect his redundancy package! Waste of money for them though.
Thankfully the company I work for, a huge publishing place, encourages longevity as they value the inside knowledge and encourage people to stay and develop. From my own perspective recruiting designers, I look for work experience alongside creativity. I'd rather employ an HND educated designer with a study portfolio balance with work experience in a deadline environment than a graduate with loads of creativity and no experience. I'd rather they got the experience elsewhere and ironed out the office basics elsewhere.
Graduates are generally poor managers straight away as they have not got the people skills to manage people of a wide range of ages. Some have, but they are the exception.
But if you want to see the flaw of employing people continually in one sector who work their way up, look at local government....
They undergo a lot of training and education before being able to give out orders. Somewhat more training than I've been given in any job I've had!
That's the answer I was hoping to generate. It's all about getting the right people & training them. Sadly, though most companies see training as such an easy thing to cut....
I think the example of rail is probably one where those who have worked their way up being more effective than a graduate is more noticeable, because of the passion that you have mentioned that guys have towards it.
My friend that I mentioned in my original post has been out of that industry for a good few years now, but he still avidly follows what is going on, buying the magazines, going on rail trips recreationally and all that sort of thing. To put it simply, what he did as a job, he would have chosen to do in his spare time.
I can't see some young, slick type having that same sort of passion for the actual area and will probably be found out. It may not be as noticeable in industries which do not generate this type of enthusiasm.
I mean, I don't like the idea of someone just out of a post-graduate course stepping into a management role with no work experience while people with years of experience are stuck underneath a glass ceiling. But at the same time, I've seen people who've "come through the ranks" be stuck in the past, be insistent that any new staff have to come through the same way that they did even though it might not be necessary any more. And you don't want someone to be promoted above their level of ability just because they've put the years in.
Ultimately, promotion should always be based purely on ability. You need to show your ability to the company before you can manage a part of it, be you a long-standing employee or last year's graduate intake.
I think a healthy mix is the best option.
Love it.
Would a healthy mix really work, though? If you had a combination of both graduates and experienced guys in a management team, surely that would be an accident waiting to happen.
The seasoned guys would just see the young people who have just come in as upstarts telling them how to do their job. The younger ones would probably have a snobby attitude and see the old school as not having a grasp of the paperwork and the finances, and not being "at that level".
I doubt anything would get done amidst all of the bad feeling.