There are certainly a lot of "plates spinning" at the moment, but to be fair, we only just had the end of Gardner.
I like the gradual reveal of just how bad the future police state is and now the latest revelation with the
chilling chipping of debt defaulters to become zombie workers.
It seems Kiera has been on the side of the state but perhaps unaware as she's lived the comfortable middle class life, chasing down actual criminals. I think she'll share the same goals as Liber8 eventually, but persue them by less violent means.
Lucas has a chip in his head or he wouldn't be seeing things and someone else is manipulating it. Does this mean everyone in the future has a chip in their head or just those working for Sadtech? That would mean Jason and Sonja have one and what do they do?
Why would activating a military CMR have any effect on Kiera, if she has just the civilian model? Garza tells Kiera she should start thinking for herself and that she has a purpose. Kiera doesn't ask the right questions or at least not the right ones. She's fixated on taking down Liber8 and going home.
There are certainly a lot of "plates spinning" at the moment, but to be fair, we only just had the end of Gardner.
I like the gradual reveal of just how bad the future police state is and now the latest revelation with the
chilling chipping of debt defaulters to become zombie workers.
It seems Kiera has been on the side of the state but perhaps unaware as she's lived the comfortable middle class life, chasing down actual criminals. I think she'll share the same goals as Liber8 eventually, but persue them by less violent means.
Kiera needs to start finding some answers soon...
Like is she on the Good Guys side - or Bad.
Loving all the plates spinning - what with Julian and his gang, the Body Snatchers, Lucas seeing Chen, Alex, Emily & Escher + Kellog, and Garza having fun at the Police Station, then getting caught by the Body Snatchers.:eek:
This season gets better as it goes along, and I didn't realize we are not far behind the Canadian/US air dates - episode 12 for them tomorrow....11 for us next week.
Lucas has a chip in his head or he wouldn't be seeing things and someone else is manipulating it. Does this mean everyone in the future has a chip in their head or just those working for Sadtech? That would mean Jason and Sonja have one and what do they do?
Why would activating a military CMR have any effect on Kiera, if she has just the civilian model? Garza tells Kiera she should start thinking for herself and that she has a purpose. Kiera doesn't ask the right questions or at least not the right ones. She's fixated on taking down Liber8 and going home.
Good questions.
Good explanation for Lucas's visions. I hadn't thought of that. The CMR's ability to generate interactive "visions" was established previously with Kiera's counsellor.
I doubt everyone has a chip in the future. The people who we know do have chips (so far) have had a reason: Kiera is law enforcement and Travis was in an experimental military programme and there are the ordinary people, turned into mindless slaves by (presumably) a version of the same technology. Except Lucas, and we don't know the reason for his visions yet. We don't know enough about his backstory yet to be sure. Sonja was a scientist, possibly the lead scientist, on the military programme Travis was in. Her knowledge of the chips will probably become important.
It's quite plausible that military and civilian CMRs would have a lot in common. The hardware would probably be made in the same facility, just with different parts enabled in "firmware". The basic electronic components in today's military hardware is often the same as consumer electronics, but selected for greater tolerance of extreme conditions, like "golden samples".
The workers at New Pemberton were in a Sadtech facility.
We know that Sonja was working for Sadtech because the military program was being closed down because they had a contract to sup[ply CMR tech to the law enforcement agency in the city. Old Alec didn't trust anyone, it seems. Lucas was a prominent scientist leading the project in chip causing behavioural control and secured control over Kiera's CMR for a time.
The link between Keira and Travis was a two-way visual- ie a net. They , civilian and military, may share some things, but a common net enabled by software isn't one of them.
I'm enjoying it (on Canadian pace) - it is getting more involved with several different groups who seem to have different agendas and seem to be from different times - but I think it will make sense (or at least more sense) by the finale.
The workers at New Pemberton were in a Sadtech facility.
We know that Sonja was working for Sadtech because the military program was being closed down because they had a contract to sup[ply CMR tech to the law enforcement agency in the city. Old Alec didn't trust anyone, it seems. Lucas was a prominent scientist leading the project in chip causing behavioural control and secured control over Kiera's CMR for a time.
The link between Keira and Travis was a two-way visual- ie a net. They , civilian and military, may share some things, but a common net enabled by software isn't one of them.
I disagree. It's logical to assume both military and civilian CMRs would be based around the same principles. It'd also be logical that they'd have the ability to share information, so their respective chains of command could coordinate in the event of a large scale emergency if they chose to. To a police state mentality especially it would make sense to have a fully linked up system so all emergency services could coordinate with each other. I'm not saying the military would be linked up all the time, or still less, share all information when they do link, but that the option would be there for a big enough problem, such as civil unrest or a big disaster. Think of the problems we've seen in the recent past in the real world with police, fire and ambulance having been on different, incompatible communications systems.
Also, there is no "net" in 2013, only what young Alec can cobble together with the 2013 version of his tech and the special comms method the CMRs use. The implanted CMR devices will do, within their abilities, what the host and/or their respective command centres tell them. In 2013, both command centres are young Alec's lab.
I'd also speculate that both civilian and military CMRs have some abilities in common, and some abilities the other doesn't have. E.g the military ones could tap into the civilian net to gain or share info, but not the other way round.
There are probably also other types of CMR for other specialties, such as medical, fire and intelligence services.
People keep calling Kiera's CMR a civilian version but I would have thought that it's a specialized Law Enforcement version, rather than something I'd class as 'civilian'.
I'm guessing that the two CMR's linked up because they are, coincidentally(?), on the same frequency as each other. It doesn't need to be any more complicated than that.
I have to say, things are getting a bit more grey now. It looks like Theseus and Liber8 may actually be the good guys (if it weren't for the fact that they seem to like to murder people a lot!).
Lots of new threads lately. It's certainly not a show where you can switch your brain off!
I have to say, things are getting a bit more grey now. It looks like Theseus and Liber8 may actually be the good guys (if it weren't for the fact that they seem to like to murder people a lot!).
I think it's great and one of the shows strengths.
I don't think Theseus was a mass murderer, Kiera was just exposed to the biased Corporate version of events. So far we've seen him acting ruthlessly at New Pemberton, but the people he killed were, as far as we know, mindless slaves. Assuming there was no hope of reversing the process then the Corporations had already killed them long before Theseus got there.
The viewer identifies with Kiera right from the start but when you stop and think about her world and it's lack of Freedoms, you realise you actually side with Liber8 (at least, their ideology not their methods.)
She definitely created Theseus, but he was never the psychotic monster she thought.
You are correct , you would want the military to link into other nets but not the the other way round. You wouldn't want a raid by supersoldiers on behalf of a corporation showing up in the visuals of CPS officers. Kiera could see what travis can see. You'd sell a lesser version than your supersoldiers to the various CPS agencies. The net was established between the two CMR chips the moment Alec activated travis' Kiera's version simply should not have the capability to see what Travis sees, unless Garza is correct and Kiera has a military CMR. Activating Elena's CMR didn't have the same effect., They work because of Alec's proprietary software and that is to create a neuro-network.
When Julian as Theseus activated the off switch , he killed any hope that some one would be able to undo what had been done to them and restore their humanity. He did perpetrate a mass-murder and no amount of rationalization absolves him of that responsibility.
Liber8 are typical nihilist-anarchists. The corporations are the typical stereotypical greedy powerhungry bureaucrats who do have power and are determined to keep it. Neither future as depicted is particularly appealing, The only good guys are Kiera and Carlos.
Having the season end with Kiera being sent back to 2077 might not be the happy ending Kiera imagined.
People keep calling Kiera's CMR a civilian version but I would have thought that it's a specialized Law Enforcement version, rather than something I'd class as 'civilian'.
I'm guessing that the two CMR's linked up because they are, coincidentally(?), on the same frequency as each other. It doesn't need to be any more complicated than that.
Thinking too hard about the CMRs doesn't pay dividends - it's just another technical mistake to add to all the others. In the days of DSSS¹ there's no possibility that it's as simple as listening in to the police radio. Just like there's no chance that young Alec would be able to access the codes and services of 60+ year advanced CMR products. They would have changed out of all recognition to his early prototype. Just think: yeah, CMRs ... riiiiiight! and let it go.
[1] Direct Sequenced Spread Spectrum: a technique for superimposing multiple (digital) signals on the same band of frequencies without them being detected or interfering with each other. It's been used for 30 years or more for military and civilian comms.
@petely Alec worked on a design of his father's who back from the future. he's worked on Kiera's suit and has Elena's to reverse engineer. Oh yes, the tech he's working on from 60 years in the future. So no prototype -this stuff isn't goingto be improved upon. Time travel. petely, you have been keeping up, now, haven't you?
Thinking too hard about the CMRs doesn't pay dividends - it's just another technical mistake to add to all the others. In the days of DSSS¹ there's no possibility that it's as simple as listening in to the police radio. Just like there's no chance that young Alec would be able to access the codes and services of 60+ year advanced CMR products. They would have changed out of all recognition to his early prototype. Just think: yeah, CMRs ... riiiiiight! and let it go.
On his own, no I don't think Young Alec could access the codes etc from the future, but he has been given information via Kiera's suit by Old Alec - that may well have included the codes even if Alec didn't realise the significance. Also there is Alec's super computer he's created using the time machine segment - I suspect the tech there is from beyond 2077 so who knows what that is capable of...
[snip]
When Julian as Theseus activated the off switch , he killed any hope that some one would be able to undo what had been done to them and restore their humanity. He did perpetrate a mass-murder and no amount of rationalization absolves him of that responsibility.
Liber8 are typical nihilist-anarchists. The corporations are the typical stereotypical greedy powerhungry bureaucrats who do have power and are determined to keep it. Neither future as depicted is particularly appealing, The only good guys are Kiera and Carlos.
Having the season end with Kiera being sent back to 2077 might not be the happy ending Kiera imagined.
For all we know, the chipped slave workers' personalities were already dead with no hope of restoration of that or free will. In which case, even that version of future Theseus would not be a mass murderer.
Kiera and Carlos are the series protagonists. They always end up doing the right thing, even if they're sorely tempted and start down the wrong path at first. Kiera is clearly conflicted though, as what she really wants is to get back to her family. I suspect Carlos will be the one to get Kiera to do the right thing, as he has done several times already. I also note that Kiera has done the same for Carlos at times as well. Between them, the right path is taken.
I do hope your last sentence is speculation, and not a spoiler.
On his own, no I don't think Young Alec could access the codes etc from the future, but he has been given information via Kiera's suit by Old Alec - that may well have included the codes even if Alec didn't realise the significance. Also there is Alec's super computer he's created using the time machine segment - I suspect the tech there is from beyond 2077 so who knows what that is capable of...
For that matter old Alex could have a hand in whatever access codes etc are built into Kiera and Travis' CMRs. Perhaps he arranged for them to be in synch on purpose!
On his own, no I don't think Young Alec could access the codes etc from the future, but he has been given information via Kiera's suit by Old Alec - that may well have included the codes
Nice try , but catch 22. To access Kiera's suit's security codes, he'd need .... yup the suit's security codes (though as we know from web security, usually codes aren't available, all you get is the "public" part not the private part).
As for getting the info from the future, sure, maybe, why not. But that doesn't bring with it the manufacturing capability to produce the stuff (with or without the globe). Just like people developing radios in the 1940's & 50's doesn't mean they'd be able to make something to pick up one of today's DAB broadcasts, even if they know how and had the plans to build it - they simply didn't have the technology to do it, or the facilities to even make the stuff to make the tech to make one of today's radios.
Alec is working on an idea from his father. The suit has the environment necessary to make it work that can be constructed out of 2012 materials. Hey, guess what, old Alec can include in the suit the security codes he know he used as young Alec thus enabling the repair to the suit.
Old Alec uploaded an awful amount of data into Keira's suit that Alec hasn't access to, which may need Kiera to start thinking for herself for her to access.
Comments
I've no idea what the point of half of the characters are really, especially Travis.
I know how you feel. There is too much going on yet nothing seems to really happen.
I like the gradual reveal of just how bad the future police state is and now the latest revelation with the
It seems Kiera has been on the side of the state but perhaps unaware as she's lived the comfortable middle class life, chasing down actual criminals. I think she'll share the same goals as Liber8 eventually, but persue them by less violent means.
Kiera needs to start finding some answers soon...
Why would activating a military CMR have any effect on Kiera, if she has just the civilian model? Garza tells Kiera she should start thinking for herself and that she has a purpose. Kiera doesn't ask the right questions or at least not the right ones. She's fixated on taking down Liber8 and going home.
Loving all the plates spinning - what with Julian and his gang, the Body Snatchers, Lucas seeing Chen, Alex, Emily & Escher + Kellog, and Garza having fun at the Police Station, then getting caught by the Body Snatchers.:eek:
This season gets better as it goes along, and I didn't realize we are not far behind the Canadian/US air dates - episode 12 for them tomorrow....11 for us next week.
Good questions.
Good explanation for Lucas's visions. I hadn't thought of that. The CMR's ability to generate interactive "visions" was established previously with Kiera's counsellor.
I doubt everyone has a chip in the future. The people who we know do have chips (so far) have had a reason: Kiera is law enforcement and Travis was in an experimental military programme and there are the ordinary people, turned into mindless slaves by (presumably) a version of the same technology. Except Lucas, and we don't know the reason for his visions yet. We don't know enough about his backstory yet to be sure. Sonja was a scientist, possibly the lead scientist, on the military programme Travis was in. Her knowledge of the chips will probably become important.
It's quite plausible that military and civilian CMRs would have a lot in common. The hardware would probably be made in the same facility, just with different parts enabled in "firmware". The basic electronic components in today's military hardware is often the same as consumer electronics, but selected for greater tolerance of extreme conditions, like "golden samples".
We know that Sonja was working for Sadtech because the military program was being closed down because they had a contract to sup[ply CMR tech to the law enforcement agency in the city. Old Alec didn't trust anyone, it seems. Lucas was a prominent scientist leading the project in chip causing behavioural control and secured control over Kiera's CMR for a time.
The link between Keira and Travis was a two-way visual- ie a net. They , civilian and military, may share some things, but a common net enabled by software isn't one of them.
I'm enjoying it (on Canadian pace) - it is getting more involved with several different groups who seem to have different agendas and seem to be from different times - but I think it will make sense (or at least more sense) by the finale.
I disagree. It's logical to assume both military and civilian CMRs would be based around the same principles. It'd also be logical that they'd have the ability to share information, so their respective chains of command could coordinate in the event of a large scale emergency if they chose to. To a police state mentality especially it would make sense to have a fully linked up system so all emergency services could coordinate with each other. I'm not saying the military would be linked up all the time, or still less, share all information when they do link, but that the option would be there for a big enough problem, such as civil unrest or a big disaster. Think of the problems we've seen in the recent past in the real world with police, fire and ambulance having been on different, incompatible communications systems.
Also, there is no "net" in 2013, only what young Alec can cobble together with the 2013 version of his tech and the special comms method the CMRs use. The implanted CMR devices will do, within their abilities, what the host and/or their respective command centres tell them. In 2013, both command centres are young Alec's lab.
I'd also speculate that both civilian and military CMRs have some abilities in common, and some abilities the other doesn't have. E.g the military ones could tap into the civilian net to gain or share info, but not the other way round.
There are probably also other types of CMR for other specialties, such as medical, fire and intelligence services.
I'm guessing that the two CMR's linked up because they are, coincidentally(?), on the same frequency as each other. It doesn't need to be any more complicated than that.
I have to say, things are getting a bit more grey now. It looks like Theseus and Liber8 may actually be the good guys (if it weren't for the fact that they seem to like to murder people a lot!).
Lots of new threads lately. It's certainly not a show where you can switch your brain off!
I think it's great and one of the shows strengths.
I don't think Theseus was a mass murderer, Kiera was just exposed to the biased Corporate version of events. So far we've seen him acting ruthlessly at New Pemberton, but the people he killed were, as far as we know, mindless slaves. Assuming there was no hope of reversing the process then the Corporations had already killed them long before Theseus got there.
The viewer identifies with Kiera right from the start but when you stop and think about her world and it's lack of Freedoms, you realise you actually side with Liber8 (at least, their ideology not their methods.)
She definitely created Theseus, but he was never the psychotic monster she thought.
Interesting stuff.
When Julian as Theseus activated the off switch , he killed any hope that some one would be able to undo what had been done to them and restore their humanity. He did perpetrate a mass-murder and no amount of rationalization absolves him of that responsibility.
Liber8 are typical nihilist-anarchists. The corporations are the typical stereotypical greedy powerhungry bureaucrats who do have power and are determined to keep it. Neither future as depicted is particularly appealing, The only good guys are Kiera and Carlos.
Having the season end with Kiera being sent back to 2077 might not be the happy ending Kiera imagined.
Thinking too hard about the CMRs doesn't pay dividends - it's just another technical mistake to add to all the others. In the days of DSSS¹ there's no possibility that it's as simple as listening in to the police radio. Just like there's no chance that young Alec would be able to access the codes and services of 60+ year advanced CMR products. They would have changed out of all recognition to his early prototype. Just think: yeah, CMRs ... riiiiiight! and let it go.
[1] Direct Sequenced Spread Spectrum: a technique for superimposing multiple (digital) signals on the same band of frequencies without them being detected or interfering with each other. It's been used for 30 years or more for military and civilian comms.
On his own, no I don't think Young Alec could access the codes etc from the future, but he has been given information via Kiera's suit by Old Alec - that may well have included the codes even if Alec didn't realise the significance. Also there is Alec's super computer he's created using the time machine segment - I suspect the tech there is from beyond 2077 so who knows what that is capable of...
For all we know, the chipped slave workers' personalities were already dead with no hope of restoration of that or free will. In which case, even that version of future Theseus would not be a mass murderer.
Kiera and Carlos are the series protagonists. They always end up doing the right thing, even if they're sorely tempted and start down the wrong path at first. Kiera is clearly conflicted though, as what she really wants is to get back to her family. I suspect Carlos will be the one to get Kiera to do the right thing, as he has done several times already. I also note that Kiera has done the same for Carlos at times as well. Between them, the right path is taken.
I do hope your last sentence is speculation, and not a spoiler.
For that matter old Alex could have a hand in whatever access codes etc are built into Kiera and Travis' CMRs. Perhaps he arranged for them to be in synch on purpose!
Nice try
As for getting the info from the future, sure, maybe, why not. But that doesn't bring with it the manufacturing capability to produce the stuff (with or without the globe). Just like people developing radios in the 1940's & 50's doesn't mean they'd be able to make something to pick up one of today's DAB broadcasts, even if they know how and had the plans to build it - they simply didn't have the technology to do it, or the facilities to even make the stuff to make the tech to make one of today's radios.
Old Alec uploaded an awful amount of data into Keira's suit that Alec hasn't access to, which may need Kiera to start thinking for herself for her to access.