Exactly, the fact is that he is always alone. When the world is mortal, he cannot die. When the population lives forever, he is mortal. Heartbreaking
My parents are from a small valleys town. not the most progressive of places, and they have no issues with Torchwood at all, they are enjoying this series (even though my mother is still angry with Jack after the end of CoE lol)
Exactly. I hate watching people eat, really hate it. But i am never drawn to posting a long rambling write up about these scenes
Not only are you appearing to suggest that my repulsion at watching two men having sex is equivalent to someone being persecuted over the colour of their skin. The implication is that the inherent sexual preference (of the majority of the populous) is as intolerable as racism and should be dealt with (and corrected) in a similar way.
The comment I made was to do with the fact that sci fi shows have a freedom to show different viewpoints than more mainstream shows. I meant more somone being perscuted over there sexuality is the being perscuted over the cololur of their skin. You have every right to a reply I just think the question you brought is more for a different disscusion board than this.
I think though that scence is there to show Jack's lonlieness. Everybody has somone apart from his mostly of his own making. He lost all of his team. In the scence afterwards he's all chipper in front of Gwen the next day when in reallity we know he's not. It's more a charcter establishing moment than a gay right issue but i see what u mean :0)
I do not think you can speak on behalf of the nation, Zaphodski. Whilst it may be true that only a proportion of the population identifies as gay, there are people who are not strictly straight. Some, like me, identify as bi; some just like a bit of cock on the way home to their wife but would never think to call themselves gay; some women occasionally sleep with other women but do not call themselves lesbian.
I know a lesbian couple, one of whom is very turned on by gay male porn. Sexuality is a fluid thing.
So you see, not everyone in the country was revolted, repelled or disgusted by a very short scene suggesting a gay blow job. I thought it was very well-handled and it never occurred to me that it was not in any way "equal to" the scene between the heterosexual couple.
So you speak for yourself, Zaphodski, not for others.
Not only are you appearing to suggest that my repulsion at watching two men having sex is equivalent to someone being persecuted over the colour of their skin. The implication is that the inherent sexual preference (of the majority of the populous) is as intolerable as racism and should be dealt with (and corrected) in a similar way.
Well, considering that Will Smith reckons he isn't allowed to kiss white women in Hollywood movies because American viewers are uncomfortable with seeing a black man kiss a white woman, it's not that far away from people saying they are uncomfortable with seeing men kissing men.
I think snopaelic's comment about the Kirk/Uhura kiss was merely demonstrating how drama could help to overcome intolerance, and a very good example too. Dramas that show gay relationships as a normal part of life can hopefully break down the barriers that mean many gay couples still feel uncomfortable about public displays of affection such as holding hands or kissing that other couples don't even think twice about.
I think though that scence is there to show Jack's lonlieness. Everybody has somone apart from his mostly of his own making. He lost all of his team. In the scence afterwards he's all chipper in front of Gwen the next day when in reallity we know he's not. It's more a charcter establishing moment than a gay right issue but i see what u mean :0)
I agree and although we don't know what Jack had been up too since he left Earth we do know that the only person that he'd been with since at least his return from the Year that Never Was - was Ianto. During the whole time of all the series Jack is not shown having sex with anyone else, he doesn't talk about having sex with anyone else, except that which has happened in the past and although he has a romantic attachment to the real CJH - they only kiss. He's hardly a sexual predator at all. In fact Owen is much worse than Jack.
And we know that there are some men and women who go out on the pull all the time and those that like to settle down on the sofa for a nice cuddle - or some that even do both. Give the poor man a break if he just wants a little fun.:D
well watched it eventually, sorry prefered and choice to watch an old sherlock instead of this on the night. And....
Whats all the fuss about, I was expecting a full on sex scene, or was did that happen when I fell asleep, but I fell asleep after Jacks phone call to Gwen.
I do not think you can speak on behalf of the nation, Zaphodski. Whilst it may be true that only a proportion of the population identifies as gay, there are people who are not strictly straight. Some, like me, identify as bi; some just like a bit of cock on the way home to their wife but would never think to call themselves gay; some women occasionally sleep with other women but do not call themselves lesbian.
I am only drawing on publicly available data to arrive at a conclusion. Look here... ...and here... ....and here too...
Given that less than 5% of the population have stated that they are gay or bisexual then logically the remaining 95% of the population are purely straight. Even if there was a margin of error the inescapable conclusion is that the overriding majority of the population do not find gay sex remotely appealing.
I know a lesbian couple, one of whom is very turned on by gay male porn. Sexuality is a fluid thing.
So you see, not everyone in the country was revolted, repelled or disgusted by a very short scene suggesting a gay blow job. I thought it was very well-handled and it never occurred to me that it was not in any way "equal to" the scene between the heterosexual couple.
So you speak for yourself, Zaphodski, not for others.
You say I am speaking for myself however I believe I am just interpreting the facts....
Well, considering that Will Smith reckons he isn't allowed to kiss white women in Hollywood movies because American viewers are uncomfortable with seeing a black man kiss a white woman, it's not that far away from people saying they are uncomfortable with seeing men kissing men.
You, and other posters to this forum, are completely missing the point. If an American viewer is uncomfortable with viewing a black man kiss a white woman (or vice versa...let's not be sexist) then that is surely a matter for the individual UNLESS the individual actively insists to others that a black person should not kiss a white person. I, and I firmly believe many others in the UK, do not wish to watch two men having sex on tv. I am not preaching to anyone that two men shouldn't be allowed to have sex and I am perfectly happy for gay sex to be included in television programs aimed at a receptive audience.
I think snopaelic's comment about the Kirk/Uhura kiss was merely demonstrating how drama could help to overcome intolerance, and a very good example too. Dramas that show gay relationships as a normal part of life can hopefully break down the barriers that mean many gay couples still feel uncomfortable about public displays of affection such as holding hands or kissing that other couples don't even think twice about.
Dramas should include gay relationships as a component of society however no amount of watching two men having sex is going to change my inherent sexually and what I find appealing. If anything being 'force fed' a gay agenda by a minority of society could provoke a completely avoidable and unfortunate backlash from some quarters.....
Given that less than 5% of the population have stated that they are gay or bisexual then logically the remaining 95% of the population are purely straight. Even if there was a margin of error the inescapable conclusion is that the overriding majority of the population do not find gay sex remotely appealing.
Your logic is faulty. In Europe, around 4% of the population are redheads (as high as 13% in Scotland). Should we draw the inescapable conclustion that the overriding majority of the population do not find redheads remotely appealing? Sorry, Karen, you're a minority, hop it, we don't care how nice your legs are in that policewoman's outfit?
Just because you aren't gay or bi doesn't mean you are automatically vehemently opposed to their presence on our screens.
Your logic is faulty. In Europe, around 4% of the population are redheads (as high as 13% in Scotland). Should we draw the inescapable conclustion that the overriding majority of the population do not find redheads remotely appealing? Sorry, Karen, you're a minority, hop it, we don't care how nice your legs are in that policewoman's outfit?
Just because you aren't gay or bi doesn't mean you are automatically vehemently opposed to their presence on our screens.
Are you serious? This analogy is so ridiculous it doesn't warrant further scrutiny.
You, and other posters to this forum, are completely missing the point. If an American viewer is uncomfortable with viewing a black man kiss a white woman (or vice versa...let's not be sexist) then that is surely a matter for the individual UNLESS the individual actively insists to others that a black person should not kiss a white person. I, and I firmly believe many others in the UK, do not wish to watch two men having sex on tv. I am not preaching to anyone that two men shouldn't be allowed to have sex and I am perfectly happy for gay sex to be included in television programs aimed at a receptive audience.
Dramas should include gay relationships as a component of society however no amount of watching two men having sex is going to change my inherent sexually and what I find appealing. If anything being 'force fed' a gay agenda by a minority of society could provoke a completely avoidable and unfortunate backlash from some quarters.....
As far as I can see, your point is that you don't want gay sex on any programs you watch, but only on television programs aimed at a specific audience (which some would argue Torchwood is, considering Jack's been sleeping with men for some time now).
Nobody's trying to change your sexuality. You are who you are. I have my own preferences when it comes to mine. I'm not gay, and when the gay sex scene came on, running side by side with the straight sex scene, I just shrugged. I didn't sense the eyes of RTD boring through the TV screen while his voice subliminally whispered on the soundtrack: "Cute, isn't he?"
I know a few people who would have a problem with the scene (which was very tame, even in the US version). I know my Dad would turn off the telly saying he didn't want that rubbish on, I know a mate of mine who watched the BBC version rather than the US because he didn't want to risk catching a glimpse of Jack's tackle. I equally know a few people who were damn keen to see Jack's tackle, straight women mostly who like a bit of gay male porn. The vast majority of folk I know did like I did. Shrugged. Maybe went and made a cuppa while it was on.
I've spent a fair while defending a sex scene that I thought was a bit rubbish and unnecessary to the plot, but the more you protest that you don't want to see that sort of thing on your TV screen, the more I think it was a good thing the sex scene was in there. Even if it was a bit rubbish.
Oh, and the Will Smith thing was just what you said, someone insisting that a black person should not kiss a white person. At least, anywhere on a Hollywood big screen.
Just watched it and thought it was bloody excellent and looking forward to the rest.
There does seem to be a lot of over reaction to a blokes bum being shown, but I suppose there will always be over sensitive folks who get OUTRAGED at the drop of a hat (or trousers )
As far as I can see, your point is that you don't want gay sex on any programs you watch, but only on television programs aimed at a specific audience (which some would argue Torchwood is, considering Jack's been sleeping with men for some time now).
Nobody's trying to change your sexuality. You are who you are. I have my own preferences when it comes to mine. I'm not gay, and when the gay sex scene came on, running side by side with the straight sex scene, I just shrugged. I didn't sense the eyes of RTD boring through the TV screen while his voice subliminally whispered on the soundtrack: "Cute, isn't he?"
I know a few people who would have a problem with the scene (which was very tame, even in the US version). I know my Dad would turn off the telly saying he didn't want that rubbish on, I know a mate of mine who watched the BBC version rather than the US because he didn't want to risk catching a glimpse of Jack's tackle. I equally know a few people who were damn keen to see Jack's tackle, straight women mostly who like a bit of gay male porn. The vast majority of folk I know did like I did. Shrugged. Maybe went and made a cuppa while it was on.
My point is I (and I believe the majority of the tv viewing public, based on the available facts) would rather not see gay sex on mainstream tv. If I am correct televising more gay sex will result in a significant loss of mainstream audience so can someone please explain to me what this will achieve regarding acceptance / tolerance / inclusion.... describe it as you will, of the gay community in the wider social context? What was wrong with Jack going to the bar, verbally flirting with the barman and then we see him in bed with the barman after the 'fat lady had sung'. Tell me how that doesn't move the plot on (if it ever did) any less than what was televised? The only difference being that the minority of viewers who like watching gay sex missed out on some titillation!
I've spent a fair while defending a sex scene that I thought was a bit rubbish and unnecessary to the plot, but the more you protest that you don't want to see that sort of thing on your TV screen, the more I think it was a good thing the sex scene was in there. Even if it was a bit rubbish.
Oh, and the Will Smith thing was just what you said, someone insisting that a black person should not kiss a white person. At least, anywhere on a Hollywood big screen.
If this is true that is racism and should be dealt with on an individual basis.
My point is I (and I believe the majority of the tv viewing public, based on the available facts) would rather not see gay sex on mainstream tv. If I am correct televising more gay sex will result in a significant loss of mainstream audience so can someone please explain to me what this will achieve regarding acceptance / tolerance / inclusion.... describe it as you will, of the gay community in the wider social context? What was wrong with Jack going to the bar, verbally flirting with the barman and then we see him in bed with the barman after the 'fat lady had sung'. Tell me how that doesn't move the plot on (if it ever did) any less than what was televised? The only difference being that the minority of viewers who like watching gay sex missed out on some titillation!.
No you believe that there should not be a representation of gay sex on mainstream TV. There's a big difference.
My point is I (and I believe the majority of the tv viewing public, based on the available facts) would rather not see gay sex on mainstream tv. If I am correct televising more gay sex will result in a significant loss of mainstream audience so can someone please explain to me what this will achieve regarding acceptance / tolerance / inclusion.... describe it as you will, of the gay community in the wider social context? What was wrong with Jack going to the bar, verbally flirting with the barman and then we see him in bed with the barman after the 'fat lady had sung'. Tell me how that doesn't move the plot on (if it ever did) any less than what was televised? The only difference being that the minority of viewers who like watching gay sex missed out on some titillation!
If this is true that is racism and should be dealt with on an individual basis.
A lot of people do not like seeing sex scenes regardless of the orientation. Why you feel the need to single out the gay sex is beyond me
It was a very small portion of an hour long show and it had enough of a lead in. It didn't go from the bar scene to surprise butt sex in a split second. You should have done what my mother did and gone to make a cup of tea
Just catching up on what has been said recently and there are a couple of points I would like to make. Re the Kirk/Uhura kiss. It has always been claimed that this was the first interacial kiss shown on TV in America. this is in fact not true. Apparently there was an earlier one shown (sorry can't find my source for this at the moment) but it was not on a mainstream programme. Also TV executives chickened out at the last moment and used a cut that showed the two characters strongly resisting. In fairness this was part of the plot but it made out that Kirk was almost repugnant at kissing Uhura. Secondly the Will Smith bit about not being allowed to kiss a white actrress. Is this true, has he actually said that ? if so it obviousley doesn't work the other way round, witness the sex scene in Monsters Ball ! Thirdly a lot of posters have said that they felt uncomfortable about the male/male sex scene in Torchwood. Surely its perfectly OK for people to say they didn't enjoy it or were uncomfortable without being labelled ? The over reaction of some posters to anyone who has expressed such an opionion has been pretty extreme.
There is another interpretation, that he was saying that for a reaction.
No you believe that there should not be a representation of gay sex on mainstream TV. There's a big difference.
......because the 95%+ of the viewing public are straight and by implication the majority of which would feel repulsed or uncomfortable at best. You would have a point if the majority of the viewing public were engaged by or ambivalent to seeing gay sex on tv.
What shall we see in Torchwood next? Some S&M, three (or more in a bed)? For some this is fine at home or in a drama specifically exploring theses issues but not for a mainstream sci fi program.
Comments
It depends what they're eating :eek:
BAHAHAHA
Point taken
I find that staggering.
Not only are you appearing to suggest that my repulsion at watching two men having sex is equivalent to someone being persecuted over the colour of their skin. The implication is that the inherent sexual preference (of the majority of the populous) is as intolerable as racism and should be dealt with (and corrected) in a similar way.
...not entitled to a right of reply am I.... :rolleyes:
I know a lesbian couple, one of whom is very turned on by gay male porn. Sexuality is a fluid thing.
So you see, not everyone in the country was revolted, repelled or disgusted by a very short scene suggesting a gay blow job. I thought it was very well-handled and it never occurred to me that it was not in any way "equal to" the scene between the heterosexual couple.
So you speak for yourself, Zaphodski, not for others.
Well, considering that Will Smith reckons he isn't allowed to kiss white women in Hollywood movies because American viewers are uncomfortable with seeing a black man kiss a white woman, it's not that far away from people saying they are uncomfortable with seeing men kissing men.
I think snopaelic's comment about the Kirk/Uhura kiss was merely demonstrating how drama could help to overcome intolerance, and a very good example too. Dramas that show gay relationships as a normal part of life can hopefully break down the barriers that mean many gay couples still feel uncomfortable about public displays of affection such as holding hands or kissing that other couples don't even think twice about.
I agree and although we don't know what Jack had been up too since he left Earth we do know that the only person that he'd been with since at least his return from the Year that Never Was - was Ianto. During the whole time of all the series Jack is not shown having sex with anyone else, he doesn't talk about having sex with anyone else, except that which has happened in the past and although he has a romantic attachment to the real CJH - they only kiss. He's hardly a sexual predator at all. In fact Owen is much worse than Jack.
And we know that there are some men and women who go out on the pull all the time and those that like to settle down on the sofa for a nice cuddle - or some that even do both. Give the poor man a break if he just wants a little fun.:D
Oh, I thought you were spot on!
Whats all the fuss about, I was expecting a full on sex scene, or was did that happen when I fell asleep, but I fell asleep after Jacks phone call to Gwen.
I am only drawing on publicly available data to arrive at a conclusion.
Look here...
...and here...
....and here too...
Given that less than 5% of the population have stated that they are gay or bisexual then logically the remaining 95% of the population are purely straight. Even if there was a margin of error the inescapable conclusion is that the overriding majority of the population do not find gay sex remotely appealing.
You say I am speaking for myself however I believe I am just interpreting the facts....
You, and other posters to this forum, are completely missing the point. If an American viewer is uncomfortable with viewing a black man kiss a white woman (or vice versa...let's not be sexist) then that is surely a matter for the individual UNLESS the individual actively insists to others that a black person should not kiss a white person. I, and I firmly believe many others in the UK, do not wish to watch two men having sex on tv. I am not preaching to anyone that two men shouldn't be allowed to have sex and I am perfectly happy for gay sex to be included in television programs aimed at a receptive audience.
Dramas should include gay relationships as a component of society however no amount of watching two men having sex is going to change my inherent sexually and what I find appealing. If anything being 'force fed' a gay agenda by a minority of society could provoke a completely avoidable and unfortunate backlash from some quarters.....
Your logic is faulty. In Europe, around 4% of the population are redheads (as high as 13% in Scotland). Should we draw the inescapable conclustion that the overriding majority of the population do not find redheads remotely appealing? Sorry, Karen, you're a minority, hop it, we don't care how nice your legs are in that policewoman's outfit?
Just because you aren't gay or bi doesn't mean you are automatically vehemently opposed to their presence on our screens.
Are you serious? This analogy is so ridiculous it doesn't warrant further scrutiny.
As far as I can see, your point is that you don't want gay sex on any programs you watch, but only on television programs aimed at a specific audience (which some would argue Torchwood is, considering Jack's been sleeping with men for some time now).
Nobody's trying to change your sexuality. You are who you are. I have my own preferences when it comes to mine. I'm not gay, and when the gay sex scene came on, running side by side with the straight sex scene, I just shrugged. I didn't sense the eyes of RTD boring through the TV screen while his voice subliminally whispered on the soundtrack: "Cute, isn't he?"
I know a few people who would have a problem with the scene (which was very tame, even in the US version). I know my Dad would turn off the telly saying he didn't want that rubbish on, I know a mate of mine who watched the BBC version rather than the US because he didn't want to risk catching a glimpse of Jack's tackle. I equally know a few people who were damn keen to see Jack's tackle, straight women mostly who like a bit of gay male porn. The vast majority of folk I know did like I did. Shrugged. Maybe went and made a cuppa while it was on.
I've spent a fair while defending a sex scene that I thought was a bit rubbish and unnecessary to the plot, but the more you protest that you don't want to see that sort of thing on your TV screen, the more I think it was a good thing the sex scene was in there. Even if it was a bit rubbish.
Oh, and the Will Smith thing was just what you said, someone insisting that a black person should not kiss a white person. At least, anywhere on a Hollywood big screen.
I kind of found your point equally ridiculous. Changing gay/bi to redhead highlighted its ridiculousness.
There does seem to be a lot of over reaction to a blokes bum being shown, but I suppose there will always be over sensitive folks who get OUTRAGED at the drop of a hat (or trousers
My point is I (and I believe the majority of the tv viewing public, based on the available facts) would rather not see gay sex on mainstream tv. If I am correct televising more gay sex will result in a significant loss of mainstream audience so can someone please explain to me what this will achieve regarding acceptance / tolerance / inclusion.... describe it as you will, of the gay community in the wider social context? What was wrong with Jack going to the bar, verbally flirting with the barman and then we see him in bed with the barman after the 'fat lady had sung'. Tell me how that doesn't move the plot on (if it ever did) any less than what was televised? The only difference being that the minority of viewers who like watching gay sex missed out on some titillation!
If this is true that is racism and should be dealt with on an individual basis.
There is another interpretation, that he was saying that for a reaction.
No you believe that there should not be a representation of gay sex on mainstream TV. There's a big difference.
A lot of people do not like seeing sex scenes regardless of the orientation. Why you feel the need to single out the gay sex is beyond me
It was a very small portion of an hour long show and it had enough of a lead in. It didn't go from the bar scene to surprise butt sex in a split second. You should have done what my mother did and gone to make a cup of tea
......because the 95%+ of the viewing public are straight and by implication the majority of which would feel repulsed or uncomfortable at best. You would have a point if the majority of the viewing public were engaged by or ambivalent to seeing gay sex on tv.
What shall we see in Torchwood next? Some S&M, three (or more in a bed)? For some this is fine at home or in a drama specifically exploring theses issues but not for a mainstream sci fi program.