Of course, the 'victim' (using inverted commas in the way you've used them) and his family must be lying.
I didn't say that. This is the second time this morning you've accused me of something I've not done, clearly you're not reading the posts, well done on demonstrating your automatic opinion of somebody who has dared to disagree with you in the past. I used inverted commas because whilst this could be a vicious assault, it may very well have been nothing of the sort.
Until it has been investigated then the allegations are that and nothing more. Heaven forbid the officers be treated as innocent until proven guilty, or in the case of police officers disciplinary, innocent until professional standards decide that it happened on the balance of probabilities.
True but I'd be interested in if the bin men have a problem with that happening. I'm just curious about why the police were even there.
My guess is that if they did then they wouldn't go to the lengths of calling the police about it. Then again if it happened every week and they'd exhausted all other options; told him not to, told his family, told their bosses etc they may well have thought that it was the only option left? Who knows, personally I do not believe this to be the case.
I think it's more likely the officers were just passing by, or a member of the public had called them.
Well as someone with Aspergers Syndrome which is related to Autism I can add these thoughts to the thread. A lot of the behaviour that "we" seem to exhibit could easily look odd or suspicious to "ordinary" people such as well.. police officers. Things such as waving your arms around in the air, talking to yourself, not giving eye contact, swaying from side to side, I went to a school in which there were a lot of more severely affected people with Autism and those sorts of behaviours started to seem like standard to me, nobody felt threatened because we know why the seemingly odd behaviour was taking place.
So with that in mind it becomes quite easy to picture what is likely to have happened and why they thought the man might have been suspicious.
There are unwritten rules of conformism with the ways most people behave in public, for example I'm told not to look at other people in say a cafe as if I am watching them on TV, that means I'm staring at them, seems normal to me but would strike me out as "odd" to those other people, and if they were police, perhaps it would draw their attention and they'd have a "word". Now if they tried to stop someone's autistic behaviour, that could lead to what is known as a "meltdown", and hey presto, you've got a story on BBC News.
Police officers probably need to be more clued up on autism as one of the things they could encounter.
I guess my autism radar is faulty because he looks like a normal bloke to me too.
I'd like to hear the other side of the story first. For example why were the police in attendance to begin with. Were they just driving past or had they been called out. And what the man was doing at the time. It seems to go from "Watching the bin men" to "Helping the bin men" in the same article. So I'd be interested to know what that was all about. Had the bin men called the police? I'm not accusing anyone of anything but this is one incident where I think the details are required. I'm not just going to sit and assume police brutality without knowing the details.
Fair enough, I guess, the facts about this story are hard to gleam, although you can reasonably suspect why he might have drawn negative attention potentially.
A lot of Autistic/AS people will look "normal", although the syndrome can manifest physically it doesn't usuallly involve changing someone's looks. It is "inside".
Well as someone with Aspergers Syndrome which is related to Autism I can add these thoughts to the thread. A lot of the behaviour that "we" seem to exhibit could easily look odd or suspicious to "ordinary" people such as well.. police officers. Things such as waving your arms around in the air, talking to yourself, not giving eye contact, swaying from side to side, I went to a school in which there were a lot of more severely affected people with Autism and those sorts of behaviours started to seem like standard to me, nobody felt threatened because we know why the seemingly odd behaviour was taking place.
So with that in mind it becomes quite easy to picture what is likely to have happened and why they thought the man might have been suspicious.
There are unwritten rules of conformism with the ways most people behave in public, for example I'm told not to look at other people in say a cafe as if I am watching them on TV, that means I'm staring at them, seems normal to me but would strike me out as "odd" to those other people, and if they were police, perhaps it would draw their attention and they'd have a "word". Now if they tried to stop someone's autistic behaviour, that could lead to what is known as a "meltdown", and hey presto, you've got a story on BBC News.
Police officers probably need to be more clued up on autism as one of the things they could encounter.
Good to see a balanced and informative reply from somebody in the know. I have a fair bit of experience with people who are at various places on the autistic spectrum (both socially and professionally) and agree with what you say.
I agree that Police officers need to be more clued up on autism and it is something that is increasingly brought in to training. However it's difficult because at the same time police officers also need to be more clued up with people suffering all manner of mental health disorders (I am aware that Autism/ASD are not classed as mental health issues), as well as being more aware of how people suffering diabetic attacks can manifest as being very drunk, or people seeking attention trying to manifest as suicidal. Unfortunately police officers have to deal with all manner of people suffering or mimicking all manner of conditions/habits/behaviours and as such it's impossible to know everything about all of them. Police officers aren't medical professionals or mental health workers.
Hate to sound like I'm obfuscating but I'd want to hear more about the circumstances of the incident before forming an opinion.
There's an awful lot of dubious stuff that gets justified with the words "But, I was only....".
This guy might have, as far as he was concerned, only been watching the bin-men but if he was getting in the way the cops might have been justified in asking him to move and then the situation escalated.
I'm not keen on disorders being used as a "get out of jail free card".
Cops should treat everybody equally and if an autistic person refuses to cooperate with the police then I don't see any reason why the police shouldn't treat them exactly the same way they'd treat any other person who refuses to cooperate with the police.
If an autistic person isn't capable of dealing with situations such as being challenged by the police in a reasonable manner then, frankly, they shouldn't be out in public on their own.
there was a guy locally (according to the paper) who was let off a prison sentence as he is autistic and would find prison hard, well shite me perhaps he shouldn't have beaten a guy and hospitalised him. I totally agree that if they cannot act in an appropriate manner they should not be out in public unsupervised
Until it has been investigated then the allegations are that and nothing more. Heaven forbid the officers be treated as innocent until proven guilty, or in the case of police officers disciplinary, innocent until professional standards decide that it happened on the balance of probabilities.
Since when has an investigation made any difference when it comes to possible police misconduct? I don't think it is reasonable to consider a case unfounded just because the ipcc and police disciplinary boards decide to cover it up as usual.
I'd await to hear the details myself before concluding either way. And will not assume anyone is innocent just because they are cleared by the current processes.
Do the disabled wanted to be treated the same as everyone else or be treated differently ?
We should congratulate the coppers for being even handed and fair, Autistic or not, we don't like your attitude , you're gonna get a kicking.
Was thinking just the same, either you want to be treated the same or you don't you can't have it both ways. Its the same with the Women who keep playing the sexism
card they only ever seem to want the nice jobs, not the bin mens jobs or sewage cleaner jobs.
Not quite sure about the kicking though, will reserve judgement until the facts are known.
Since when has an investigation made any difference when it comes to possible police misconduct? I don't think it is reasonable to consider a case unfounded just because the ipcc and police disciplinary boards decide to cover it up as usual. [/b]
I'd await to hear the details myself before concluding either way. And will not assume anyone is innocent just because they are cleared by the current processes.
And I don't think it's reasonable to consider somebody instantly guilty purely on the basis of a single allegation, which some in this thread have already done.
What do you mean by cover it up as usual? Are you suggesting that it is standard practice?
The title of this thread pretty much sums it up... It's sensationalist headlines, that's all. The scary thing is that people genuinely believe that police would jump out the car and randomly attack a man for no apparent reason.
The public can be so gullible and believe everything the media throw at them.
If I come on here and said 'the other day I was minding my own business when a police officer come up and threw me to the floor before kicking me in the head' people would still believe it without hearing the other side.
Do the disabled wanted to be treated the same as everyone else or be treated differently ?
We should congratulate the coppers for being even handed and fair, Autistic or not, we don't like your attitude , you're gonna get a kicking.
What a mindless, callous thing to say. Good lord. Do you honestly judge reality in such a black and white way? God help any vulnerable person you come across. Im sure your cowardice and ignorance would have a great moment to shine.
The title of this thread pretty much sums it up... It's sensationalist headlines, that's all. The scary thing is that people genuinely believe that police would jump out the car and randomly attack a man for no apparent reason.
The public can be so gullible and believe everything the media throw at them.
If I come on here and said 'the other day I was minding my own business when a police officer come up and threw me to the floor before kicking me in the head' people would still believe it without hearing the other side.
Not everybody, but certainly some who seem to believe that any attempt to suggest why something may have happened, or to provide some balance, or merely feel that it's unreasonable to judge without hearing the other side of the story, is nothing short of complete support for corrupt, violent coppers!
Some parts of Luton have a high ethnic population and there may be a perception that police are either targeting or wanting to target the Asian population in searches related to terrorism.
Is this something that was thought when he was seen helping the bin men, was he putting things in different bins, was he asked to stop and then got upset? did the police think that there was more to his behaviour than there was and are the community thinking this and upset that this could be an example of the police marking Asian communities as ripe for hot beds of terrorism?
Might be, or might not
Comments
Of course, the 'victim' (using inverted commas in the way you've used them) and his family must be lying.
I think it's fairly reasonable to think that they might not offer the most objective assessment of the incident.
Course, the same thing can probably be said of the cops too.
I didn't say that. This is the second time this morning you've accused me of something I've not done, clearly you're not reading the posts, well done on demonstrating your automatic opinion of somebody who has dared to disagree with you in the past. I used inverted commas because whilst this could be a vicious assault, it may very well have been nothing of the sort.
Until it has been investigated then the allegations are that and nothing more. Heaven forbid the officers be treated as innocent until proven guilty, or in the case of police officers disciplinary, innocent until professional standards decide that it happened on the balance of probabilities.
True but I'd be interested in if the bin men have a problem with that happening. I'm just curious about why the police were even there.
My guess is that if they did then they wouldn't go to the lengths of calling the police about it. Then again if it happened every week and they'd exhausted all other options; told him not to, told his family, told their bosses etc they may well have thought that it was the only option left? Who knows, personally I do not believe this to be the case.
I think it's more likely the officers were just passing by, or a member of the public had called them.
So what?
How do you know, and what are you getting at?
So with that in mind it becomes quite easy to picture what is likely to have happened and why they thought the man might have been suspicious.
There are unwritten rules of conformism with the ways most people behave in public, for example I'm told not to look at other people in say a cafe as if I am watching them on TV, that means I'm staring at them, seems normal to me but would strike me out as "odd" to those other people, and if they were police, perhaps it would draw their attention and they'd have a "word". Now if they tried to stop someone's autistic behaviour, that could lead to what is known as a "meltdown", and hey presto, you've got a story on BBC News.
Police officers probably need to be more clued up on autism as one of the things they could encounter.
Fair enough, I guess, the facts about this story are hard to gleam, although you can reasonably suspect why he might have drawn negative attention potentially.
A lot of Autistic/AS people will look "normal", although the syndrome can manifest physically it doesn't usuallly involve changing someone's looks. It is "inside".
Good to see a balanced and informative reply from somebody in the know. I have a fair bit of experience with people who are at various places on the autistic spectrum (both socially and professionally) and agree with what you say.
I agree that Police officers need to be more clued up on autism and it is something that is increasingly brought in to training. However it's difficult because at the same time police officers also need to be more clued up with people suffering all manner of mental health disorders (I am aware that Autism/ASD are not classed as mental health issues), as well as being more aware of how people suffering diabetic attacks can manifest as being very drunk, or people seeking attention trying to manifest as suicidal. Unfortunately police officers have to deal with all manner of people suffering or mimicking all manner of conditions/habits/behaviours and as such it's impossible to know everything about all of them. Police officers aren't medical professionals or mental health workers.
there was a guy locally (according to the paper) who was let off a prison sentence as he is autistic and would find prison hard, well shite me perhaps he shouldn't have beaten a guy and hospitalised him. I totally agree that if they cannot act in an appropriate manner they should not be out in public unsupervised
We should congratulate the coppers for being even handed and fair, Autistic or not, we don't like your attitude , you're gonna get a kicking.
Since when has an investigation made any difference when it comes to possible police misconduct? I don't think it is reasonable to consider a case unfounded just because the ipcc and police disciplinary boards decide to cover it up as usual.
I'd await to hear the details myself before concluding either way. And will not assume anyone is innocent just because they are cleared by the current processes.
Was thinking just the same, either you want to be treated the same or you don't you can't have it both ways. Its the same with the Women who keep playing the sexism
card they only ever seem to want the nice jobs, not the bin mens jobs or sewage cleaner jobs.
Not quite sure about the kicking though, will reserve judgement until the facts are known.
And I don't think it's reasonable to consider somebody instantly guilty purely on the basis of a single allegation, which some in this thread have already done.
What do you mean by cover it up as usual? Are you suggesting that it is standard practice?
The public can be so gullible and believe everything the media throw at them.
If I come on here and said 'the other day I was minding my own business when a police officer come up and threw me to the floor before kicking me in the head' people would still believe it without hearing the other side.
What a mindless, callous thing to say. Good lord. Do you honestly judge reality in such a black and white way? God help any vulnerable person you come across. Im sure your cowardice and ignorance would have a great moment to shine.
Not everybody, but certainly some who seem to believe that any attempt to suggest why something may have happened, or to provide some balance, or merely feel that it's unreasonable to judge without hearing the other side of the story, is nothing short of complete support for corrupt, violent coppers!
Is this something that was thought when he was seen helping the bin men, was he putting things in different bins, was he asked to stop and then got upset? did the police think that there was more to his behaviour than there was and are the community thinking this and upset that this could be an example of the police marking Asian communities as ripe for hot beds of terrorism?
Might be, or might not
I think you can use a stronger word than suggestion such as stating.
http://www.bedfordshire-news.co.uk/News/Family-of-Bedfordshire-man-Faruk-Ali-call-for-justice-following-public-meeting-20140305113711.htm