I saw the first episode of Fans V Favs, disappointingly predictable first elimination.
Looked through the China one, not the final episode yet but I think I know who wins. I was supporting the underdogs through most of it, so a bit annoyed by the final 4. At least the 4th place one didn't make the final, would have been as bad as Lil. I guess Amanda was the best of the dominant group. Pretty decent cast overall I thought. So I did manage to get into this one I guess unlike probably several others. I wonder if I'll ever really like a winner though.
I loved beyond loved China. Todd is my favourite winner ever I think Shame for Amanda though who played excellently until the final four tribal council. She'd have won if she'd eliminated Todd, but got blinded by how tragic she thought that everyone thought Denise's life was.
Denise was apparently quite popular with the audience, though I don't really understand why as she was just a follower anyway. As I said I liked the underdogs, the dominant tribe could get a bit cocky at times, and I thought Todd was silly deviating from his plan to get rid of James (after having confided in him about the idols as well). He was very lucky that James allowed himself to be blindsided again. Pee-Gee was definitely one of my favourites, she may have had some advantage with some question challenges as it was in China but I thought that she fought well right up to the end.
I looked at another couple of episodes of Fans v Favs but it's so heavy on strategy at the expense of almost anything else. Even with the fans the first elimination is all strategical and it's hard to understand how one person apparently has the power among this tribe to get everyone to vote that way. Not enough on the personalities.
Yeah, Peih-Gee would be somewhere near the top of my "would like to see again" list of players who never returned. She literally didn't stop fighting to stay until the very end, and always seemed to be doing something to keep herself in the game. Getting to outlast her entire tribe and making it to the last few days was a nice reward for her.
I do look at China with rose-tinted glasses a bit. It was my second season, but the one that got me really hooked. It also unquestionably in my eyes has the best final three since they swapped to that format. Two legitimately worthy potential winners, and darling Courtney who somehow ended up with an awesome chance to win too!
I much prefer final 2 format as I said elsewhere, and would prefer another challenge to cut it down to 2 people. Courtney just seemed to be irritated much of the time and didn't try and create alliances as much as other people in the season, she just kept with those who saw her as a weak player and took her to the end.
Wasn't Courtney hooked up with Stephen Fischbach (Tocantins) until recently? I always thought those two were nerdy and odd enough together! But sadly I think they've split. I'd love to see PG again, China was a good season IMO.
I hate final threes, except for FvF when I'd have loved Cirie to have won.
Agreed, if any player that hasn't won that has deserved to it's Cirie, I mean she started playing well the instant she started playing in her original season, and barely put a foot wrong right through to the final 3 of FvsF. I felt so bad for her in her farewell speech.
And then of course her time on HvsV was a huge letdown.
All she can take away from that is that she was such a major threat that even the ultimate alpha male in Tom Westman was scared to death of her.
Well she was trying to get him voted out instead of someone else who had been agreed on, so he made the right move. She got outplayed by Tom and Colby.
Not saying she wasn't. I think it's just a shame that Cirie isn't amongst the group of Survivor winners, she's like the ultimate underdog story. As I always find the social game aspect more impressive than the alpha male leaders or challenge dominators, and Cirie might be the best at the social game than anyone else.
I don't think I've seen Cirie's first season. But there's various definitions you can make from the word 'social game'. Sometimes people look at it as just brown nosing, following someone else and just hanging on their coat-tails. Another way of looking at it is making the right alliances and playing people well. I like the second more in this game.
Saw Samoa and Natalie was kind of nice but also just hung on the coat-tails of Russell. The producers tried to make out she was behind a big move mid-season, but I saw the episodes back to back and Jaison was actually the one shown to have the idea in the previous episode, so didn't fool me. And they made a big deal out of her killing a rat as if it made her a great hunter, which was a bit weird.
Russell Hantz really dominated the season and I see he won the final immunity just like he did in Heroes v Villains. And now I can see why he called himself The King of Immunity Idols in Season 20 as well.
Saw Samoa and Natalie was kind of nice but also just hung on the coat-tails of Russell. The producers tried to make out she was behind a big move mid-season, but I saw the episodes back to back and Jaison was actually the one shown to have the idea in the previous episode, so didn't fool me. And they made a big deal out of her killing a rat as if it made her a great hunter, which was a bit weird.
Russell Hantz really dominated the season and I see he won the final immunity just like he did in Heroes v Villains. And now I can see why he called himself The King of Immunity Idols in Season 20 as well.
Brett should have won :mad:
Russell was never going to win, he don't realise that you have to connect with the Jury, he basically voted them out and laughed at them going, who would vote for that?
Natalie is a under-rated winner, she knew from episode 2 that Russell was a dick so she stuck with him, and while he was a dick to the jury, she made friends with them, and at least treated them respectfully unlike Russell.
The jury apparently voted for Natalie because she could name alot about all their personal lives (such as jobs and family members) which showed how strong her social game was. Of course this was cut out to make it seem more like Russell should have won. They included Natalie's few highlights about the rat and the Eric boot, just so the show doesn't look like a complete farce. But they also wanted to promote Russell as the victim of a bitter jury so they could bring him back immediately.
I still don't really care about the ending of Samoa though even though it was my first season, I wouldn't have been bothered whatever happened.
You know starry ( and plase dont take this the wrong way) but reading the thread you started and your posts here, I dont think you like the basic premise of the game so maybe dont look on it with the same eyes as us more fanatical addicts do. I dont think you'd enjoy any season as much as you do other shows such as Amazing Race etc which have a uncontested winner i.e first to the finish post.
Survivor is unique among games because it depends on so many things. Social strategy is important, there's a huge amount of luck added in. And, of course, coping mentally and physically with extreme conditions.
It's just that aspect that draws us back season after season. It's so unpredictable. I've watched all 24 seasons, some as many as 4 times and I can honestly say there's only 2 or 3 I could take or leave. I love the whole premise and a heck of a lot of people are as big a fan as I am.
All of us like different things, I'm bored witless with the Amazing Race, even though I loved the concept and love Phil Keough. I'm never bored with Survivor so I've stopped watching the former. Each to their own.
I like the final of Cook Islands more. It was the first time they did a final three and I think it looked pretty obvious that it should have been a final two. But with 2 huge players it was harder for the jury to award it to someone undeserving. Either of the top two had a good case for winning, though I was happier with the winner as he had a good strategic game as well as being pretty good in challenges.
It would have been nice if there had been more twists in it, though the main stories of the underdog tribe gaining control and the 'villainy' (lol, actually it's just gameplay but for some reason people need villains in this show) of Jonathan were quite good The whole Exile Island thing seemed a bit of a waste though, nothing that interesting happened there except the finding of the immunity idol.
Russell was never going to win, he don't realise that you have to connect with the Jury, he basically voted them out and laughed at them going, who would vote for that?
Natalie is a under-rated winner, she knew from episode 2 that Russell was a dick so she stuck with him, and while he was a dick to the jury, she made friends with them, and at least treated them respectfully unlike Russell.
I don't think he laughed at all of them going. And those he did laugh at would have laughed at him going as well, let's not pretend he was the only ruthless gameplayer. Natalie stuck with Russell as he wanted her with him, otherwise she would probably have been eliminated.
so maybe dont look on it with the same eyes as us more fanatical addicts do.
and a heck of a lot of people are as big a fan as I am.
I'm sure many are bigger fans than me, but there'll also be quite a few others who like me have a qualified appreciation of it as well. I try and be constructive in my criticism of it though, as I do like some things (blindsides, many of the challenges, some of the big characters). And I'm not completely uncritical of The Amazing Race anyway, I'm sick of the crooked or incompetant taxi drivers deciding who wins or gets eliminated for instance. As I say nothing is perfect, but criticisms can be good points for debate.
Of course this was cut out to make it seem more like Russell should have won.
Perhaps, though he did seem to be behind most of the big moves (whether alliances, or finding idols) and did well in challenges when he really needed to. I suppose they may have made the edit more biased to his winning alliance, though ultimately his group did control the game to the end.
but Russell sucked at the Social game which, to this day I dont think he realises how important it is. It wouldn't be Survivor without that aspect.
I wasn't having a go about your critcism, constructive or otherwise, but I think trying to debate/criticise the whole premise of the game and the way the winner is decided isn't something that's going to besuccessful on this thread after 24 largely very successful series.
You're criticising the very core of the game and suggesting it changes completely into IMO a boring, like 'n' number of game shows that have come and gone over the years.
That's why I said I dont think Survivor may be one of your favourite shows. I dont think you'll find any or very little support for your views as, by definition, we have to hunt down Survivor ( :mad: unlike most other countries it has been deemed not to British taste) and are therefore very protective of it's basic premises.
I'm not going to knock what for me, is part of the brilliance that makes Survivor special. Especially after so many seasons, and having gone through loads of seasons with the vast majority of posters on here who are regulars, I dont think they will either.
We'll save our criticism for stupid ideas like Redemption Island and the Medallion of Power which thankfully have died a death and will *fingers crossed* never return.
I will always love Exile Island simply for the one night that Coach spent there in Tocatins. Television Gold!
Well it's a matter of opinion what the core of the game is, another argument would be that vitually every show is about making sure you don't get eliminated by those left in the game and that those are the people that you survive over.
And what is the social game is another point which I was mentioning earlier. If you have no social game you wouldn't have an alliance and you would be eliminated very quickly.
As for Brett who was mentioned, he was eliminated fair and square in a challenge by Russell. Incidentally that's a good example of Russell having plenty of good words to say about someone as well. probably because he felt that way rather than as he just wanted to suck up for a jury vote.
And as I said before I don't argue against the fact that many have gone along with it as it is, but being over protective of something isn't great for discussion. And shows do need to change and develop to keep fresh, some of those changes may be for the worse sometimes and other times for the better, and I suppose there will be a loyal audience whatever is done after all this time.
Crystal Cox I love you! I'd forgotten quite how much. She is quite simply fabulous.
Sugar is still the same emotional wreck she was in HvV, she's just getting pimped in the edit a lot more this time but you can see it. She is very flaky, Ace is her number 1 ally but she will turn on him in a second based on hearsay (not that I like Ace).
Corrinne definitely not a nice person. Horrid fake smile and bitchy personality, has nothing kind to say about anyone. I did enjoy watching her though. The onions seem very cliquey and full of themselves.
Randy I find amusing.
I like Kelly a lot more than initially. Felt slightly bad for her because Jeff clearly hated her and kept pointing out how awful she was in challenges (even though Sugar and others were usually equally bad or worse and Jeff wouldn't even comment).
Another weird thing I noticed about this season - most of the cast seem to be aged 29 years old, or at least those who get somewhere (Matty, Crystal, Sugar, Charlie, Corrinne). And omg Ace was only 27.:eek:
Agree about Crystal, one of my fave survivors ever. I really wanted her to win, yeah she was terrible at the challenges, but she was a great strategist and a funny character.
I loved her partnership with Kenny, and how they both demonstrated their strategic brains by manipulating the vote and saving eachother on a few occasions.
I really don't like how Gabon ends, thanks to Sugar's sudden crisis of conscience. :rolleyes:
lol out of that list of 29 year olds, I'd say Crystal and Corinne look older, Matty and Charlie look younger, Sugar probably looks 29 though, but doesn't act it. Plus you would never think that Charlie was older than Marcus, since he acted like a hormonal teenage girl towards him.
Well it's a matter of opinion what the core of the game is, another argument would be that vitually every show is about making sure you don't get eliminated by those left in the game and that those are the people that you survive over.
And what is the social game is another point which I was mentioning earlier. If you have no social game you wouldn't have an alliance and you would be eliminated very quickly.
As for Brett who was mentioned, he was eliminated fair and square in a challenge by Russell. Incidentally that's a good example of Russell having plenty of good words to say about someone as well. probably because he felt that way rather than as he just wanted to suck up for a jury vote.
And as I said before I don't argue against the fact that many have gone along with it as it is, but being over protective of something isn't great for discussion. And shows do need to change and develop to keep fresh, some of those changes may be for the worse sometimes and other times for the better, and I suppose there will be a loyal audience whatever is done after all this time.
Honest, this is my final post on the subject because I dont think you're getting the main thrust of my argument. You want Survivor to change radically so it doesn't become Survivor anymore. Not that I watch soaps, but it's like saying Emmerdale should be set in the middle of Leeds or Bradford.It's not a matter of opinion what the core element of the game is, nor is the social game's importance up for debate. Please dont patronise people who have known the rules of the game from the get go. It's you who dont understand how the game is played.Of course every show is about making sure you don't get eliminated by those left in the game and that those are the people that you survive over.
That's the whole heart of the show.
You want debate, but how can you debate when nobody but you thinks it's broken? So it's all a bit pointless isn't it? You may not like it and can think of loads of ways it should change, but why should it? There's plenty of other stuff out there that fit your criteria, why mess with one show that has had more longevity than any other reality show and all of us enjoy for the main part?
(I'm not counting "The Real World" which has also been around for ever, because that's heavily scripted).
To be honest I'm getting a bit pissed off that you think your ideas are great and worthy of discussion. I totally disagree and find it a bit arrogant that you want us to join you in "debate" as to how it could be improved. I have nothing to debate about,so I'm bowing out before this gets tedious.
Survivor tweaks it's formula every season. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But it will ALWAYS remain "Outwit, Outplay. Outlast" by fair means or foul and I hope it continuesthat ethos for a long time to come.
So I'll wish you all the best in your search for a forum that will "bite", but I think you're in for an uphill battle. Just out of interest, how long have you been watching it for? I'm just curious as you are so adamant that the formula is wrong and "all shows need to evolve.
It has. Survivor Borneo is completely different from One World. In fact looking back, Hatch's famous victory and the 52m who watched that first series in the US alone, would probably find it quite naive and slow today.
Agree about Crystal, one of my fave survivors ever. I really wanted her to win, yeah she was terrible at the challenges, but she was a great strategist and a funny character.
I loved her partnership with Kenny, and how they both demonstrated their strategic brains by manipulating the vote and saving eachother on a few occasions.
I will never get over Crystal's nomination of Randy where everyone at tribal council could hear her. One of my favourite Survivor moment in the history of the show and definitely my favourite tribal council.:p I was in hysterics.
I actually find you quite patronising and arrogant, and to say that it's only me that has a problem with some of it I find a bit ridiculous. And if you don't want to discuss my thoughts why are you even doing it? Anyway I won't let you wind me up, you obviously don't like it if someone else has a different opinion to you.
I will never get over Crystal's nomination of Randy where everyone at tribal council could hear her. One of my favourite Survivor moment in the history of the show and definitely my favourite tribal council.:p I was in hysterics.
"You have made my life hell from day one! Forget you! Go home! Goodbye!"
Comments
Looked through the China one, not the final episode yet but I think I know who wins. I was supporting the underdogs through most of it, so a bit annoyed by the final 4. At least the 4th place one didn't make the final, would have been as bad as Lil. I guess Amanda was the best of the dominant group. Pretty decent cast overall I thought. So I did manage to get into this one I guess unlike probably several others. I wonder if I'll ever really like a winner though.
I looked at another couple of episodes of Fans v Favs but it's so heavy on strategy at the expense of almost anything else. Even with the fans the first elimination is all strategical and it's hard to understand how one person apparently has the power among this tribe to get everyone to vote that way. Not enough on the personalities.
I do look at China with rose-tinted glasses a bit. It was my second season, but the one that got me really hooked. It also unquestionably in my eyes has the best final three since they swapped to that format. Two legitimately worthy potential winners, and darling Courtney who somehow ended up with an awesome chance to win too!
Jamie and Erik are married now.
I thought China was okay, the cast was the best part
I hate final threes, except for FvF when I'd have loved Cirie to have won.
And then of course her time on HvsV was a huge letdown.
All she can take away from that is that she was such a major threat that even the ultimate alpha male in Tom Westman was scared to death of her.
Russell Hantz really dominated the season and I see he won the final immunity just like he did in Heroes v Villains. And now I can see why he called himself The King of Immunity Idols in Season 20 as well.
Brett should have won :mad:
Russell was never going to win, he don't realise that you have to connect with the Jury, he basically voted them out and laughed at them going, who would vote for that?
Natalie is a under-rated winner, she knew from episode 2 that Russell was a dick so she stuck with him, and while he was a dick to the jury, she made friends with them, and at least treated them respectfully unlike Russell.
I still don't really care about the ending of Samoa though
Survivor is unique among games because it depends on so many things. Social strategy is important, there's a huge amount of luck added in. And, of course, coping mentally and physically with extreme conditions.
It's just that aspect that draws us back season after season. It's so unpredictable. I've watched all 24 seasons, some as many as 4 times and I can honestly say there's only 2 or 3 I could take or leave. I love the whole premise and a heck of a lot of people are as big a fan as I am.
All of us like different things, I'm bored witless with the Amazing Race, even though I loved the concept and love Phil Keough. I'm never bored with Survivor so I've stopped watching the former. Each to their own.
It would have been nice if there had been more twists in it, though the main stories of the underdog tribe gaining control and the 'villainy' (lol, actually it's just gameplay but for some reason people need villains in this show) of Jonathan were quite good The whole Exile Island thing seemed a bit of a waste though, nothing that interesting happened there except the finding of the immunity idol.
I don't think he laughed at all of them going. And those he did laugh at would have laughed at him going as well, let's not pretend he was the only ruthless gameplayer. Natalie stuck with Russell as he wanted her with him, otherwise she would probably have been eliminated.
I'm sure many are bigger fans than me, but there'll also be quite a few others who like me have a qualified appreciation of it as well. I try and be constructive in my criticism of it though, as I do like some things (blindsides, many of the challenges, some of the big characters). And I'm not completely uncritical of The Amazing Race anyway, I'm sick of the crooked or incompetant taxi drivers deciding who wins or gets eliminated for instance. As I say nothing is perfect, but criticisms can be good points for debate.
Perhaps, though he did seem to be behind most of the big moves (whether alliances, or finding idols) and did well in challenges when he really needed to. I suppose they may have made the edit more biased to his winning alliance, though ultimately his group did control the game to the end.
I wasn't having a go about your critcism, constructive or otherwise, but I think trying to debate/criticise the whole premise of the game and the way the winner is decided isn't something that's going to besuccessful on this thread after 24 largely very successful series.
You're criticising the very core of the game and suggesting it changes completely into IMO a boring, like 'n' number of game shows that have come and gone over the years.
That's why I said I dont think Survivor may be one of your favourite shows. I dont think you'll find any or very little support for your views as, by definition, we have to hunt down Survivor ( :mad: unlike most other countries it has been deemed not to British taste) and are therefore very protective of it's basic premises.
I'm not going to knock what for me, is part of the brilliance that makes Survivor special. Especially after so many seasons, and having gone through loads of seasons with the vast majority of posters on here who are regulars, I dont think they will either.
We'll save our criticism for stupid ideas like Redemption Island and the Medallion of Power which thankfully have died a death and will *fingers crossed* never return.
And what is the social game is another point which I was mentioning earlier. If you have no social game you wouldn't have an alliance and you would be eliminated very quickly.
As for Brett who was mentioned, he was eliminated fair and square in a challenge by Russell. Incidentally that's a good example of Russell having plenty of good words to say about someone as well. probably because he felt that way rather than as he just wanted to suck up for a jury vote.
And as I said before I don't argue against the fact that many have gone along with it as it is, but being over protective of something isn't great for discussion. And shows do need to change and develop to keep fresh, some of those changes may be for the worse sometimes and other times for the better, and I suppose there will be a loyal audience whatever is done after all this time.
Crystal Cox I love you! I'd forgotten quite how much. She is quite simply fabulous.
Sugar is still the same emotional wreck she was in HvV, she's just getting pimped in the edit a lot more this time but you can see it. She is very flaky, Ace is her number 1 ally but she will turn on him in a second based on hearsay (not that I like Ace).
Corrinne definitely not a nice person. Horrid fake smile and bitchy personality, has nothing kind to say about anyone. I did enjoy watching her though. The onions seem very cliquey and full of themselves.
Randy I find amusing.
I like Kelly a lot more than initially. Felt slightly bad for her because Jeff clearly hated her and kept pointing out how awful she was in challenges (even though Sugar and others were usually equally bad or worse and Jeff wouldn't even comment).
Another weird thing I noticed about this season - most of the cast seem to be aged 29 years old, or at least those who get somewhere (Matty, Crystal, Sugar, Charlie, Corrinne). And omg Ace was only 27.:eek:
I loved her partnership with Kenny, and how they both demonstrated their strategic brains by manipulating the vote and saving eachother on a few occasions.
I really don't like how Gabon ends, thanks to Sugar's sudden crisis of conscience. :rolleyes:
lol out of that list of 29 year olds, I'd say Crystal and Corinne look older, Matty and Charlie look younger, Sugar probably looks 29 though, but doesn't act it. Plus you would never think that Charlie was older than Marcus, since he acted like a hormonal teenage girl towards him.
That's the whole heart of the show.
You want debate, but how can you debate when nobody but you thinks it's broken? So it's all a bit pointless isn't it? You may not like it and can think of loads of ways it should change, but why should it? There's plenty of other stuff out there that fit your criteria, why mess with one show that has had more longevity than any other reality show and all of us enjoy for the main part?
(I'm not counting "The Real World" which has also been around for ever, because that's heavily scripted).
To be honest I'm getting a bit pissed off that you think your ideas are great and worthy of discussion. I totally disagree and find it a bit arrogant that you want us to join you in "debate" as to how it could be improved. I have nothing to debate about,so I'm bowing out before this gets tedious.
Survivor tweaks it's formula every season. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But it will ALWAYS remain "Outwit, Outplay. Outlast" by fair means or foul and I hope it continuesthat ethos for a long time to come.
So I'll wish you all the best in your search for a forum that will "bite", but I think you're in for an uphill battle. Just out of interest, how long have you been watching it for? I'm just curious as you are so adamant that the formula is wrong and "all shows need to evolve.
It has. Survivor Borneo is completely different from One World. In fact looking back, Hatch's famous victory and the 52m who watched that first series in the US alone, would probably find it quite naive and slow today.
I will never get over Crystal's nomination of Randy where everyone at tribal council could hear her. One of my favourite Survivor moment in the history of the show and definitely my favourite tribal council.:p I was in hysterics.