it is simply the case, alot of those jobs are not advertised in the UK, or simply not advertised at all, they are simply deals between employer and agency, the agency makes no effort at all to recruit Brits.
also the truth of the matter is alot of that work is a best "seasonal" it maybe one or two weeks, then you are looking for another job, the current benefit system does not really encourage this, and yes conditions for those jobs are below what is expected of other temp jobs.
Those jobs will not pay your rent in the medium or even short term.
Many young people today haven't a clue what a day's work is.
When I was growing up I got jobs and chores to do every day - cleaning, washing dishes, gardening, mowing the lawns, home improvements.
By the time I was 12 I'd have peeled the veg and put supper on by the time mum got in at 5.30pm every day.
Today's situation is a stark contrast - kids are often cosetted, cooped up in bedrooms playing video games or ferried relentlessly around to various sports, music lessons, clubs and organisations.
No wonder there is such a workshy epidemic - we've bred a country of indolent people who think they exist to be entertained and indulged.
I went into a recruitment agency the other day to discuss a H&S job that I now have an interview for, however whilst filling forms in I noticed a Recruitment Consultant of Eastern European origin giving a job there and then to another lady also of Eastern European origin, then a native Brit guy came in looking like he traipses around these agencies day after day desperately trying to get work, he asks exasperatedly "any work in today?" and gets sent away - do you see what problem may be happening here!!
It is a very nasty sweeping statement to say that every foreigner works twice as hard as any Brit as this is extremely untrue, my partner went back to work a month ago with broken leg that was not fully healed and has been working 7 days a week since! I voluntarily did H&S for the companies I have worked for alongside my day jobs to build my career.
There are also agencies that go and source people direct from overseas - it is not all black and white especially for unskilled workers, there is next to no work if that ilk in my area, a factory order picker job in my area on the internet had received 100+ applications! The other option is the occasional cleaning job that pays £6.50 for about 10 hours a week - no one can live on that!
Having a job and an income for half a year is still better than no job at all.
I agree - and I wasn't suggesting that not working is a legitimate alternative to doing a poorly paid or variable hours / casual job - merely pointing out that whilst it can be ideal for some folk, it's less than perfect for those with regular financial commitments.
if that's the case how are the immigrants in those roles managing?
Maybe they are happy to rough it 10 to a house, much like most blokes will when working away, so they can send the money home, where it is the equivalent of a small fortune?
had some guy turn up at my work today, in a cheap suit, trying to sell us courier services.
Not sure where he got the job from, but im thinking showing up with nothing to identify who you are, asking at the back door, not knowing if the office is HQ or one of many (ie, not where the decision would be made), seemingly clueless to the idea that most on the industrial estate already have a regular contract.
had some guy turn up at my work today, in a cheap suit, trying to sell us courier services.
Not sure where he got the job from, but im thinking showing up with nothing to identify who you are, asking at the back door, not knowing if the office is HQ or one of many (ie, not where the decision would be made), seemingly clueless to the idea that most on the industrial estate already have a regular contract.
Thinking it was a wasted day for him.
He'll be a desperate person trying to forge some sort of self employment because he'll have tried til he is blue in the face to get a job, he is probably fairly unskilled and has to compete against immigrants - I get a lot of Brit guys knocking on my door these days wanting to trim my trees or clear my gutters, Brits do want to work but the jobs aren't there!
He'll be a desperate person trying to forge some sort of self employment because he'll have tried til he is blue in the face to get a job, he is probably fairly unskilled and has to compete against immigrants - I get a lot of Brit guys knocking on my door these days wanting to trim my trees or clear my gutters, Brits do want to work but the jobs aren't there!
no question it will be self employment. Sane for "owner driver" type job, we get some deliver to us but I wouldn't go near it with a barge poll. Risk is alll yours, and reward is all theirs.
Many young people today haven't a clue what a day's work is.
When I was growing up I got jobs and chores to do every day - cleaning, washing dishes, gardening, mowing the lawns, home improvements.
By the time I was 12 I'd have peeled the veg and put supper on by the time mum got in at 5.30pm every day.
Today's situation is a stark contrast - kids are often cosetted, cooped up in bedrooms playing video games or ferried relentlessly around to various sports, music lessons, clubs and organisations.
No wonder there is such a workshy epidemic - we've bred a country of indolent people who think they exist to be entertained and indulged.
I think you find its same in all the Western word kids.
I went into a recruitment agency the other day to discuss a H&S job that I now have an interview for, however whilst filling forms in I noticed a Recruitment Consultant of Eastern European origin giving a job there and then to another lady also of Eastern European origin, then a native Brit guy came in looking like he traipses around these agencies day after day desperately trying to get work, he asks exasperatedly "any work in today?" and gets sent away - do you see what problem may be happening here!!
It is a very nasty sweeping statement to say that every foreigner works twice as hard as any Brit as this is extremely untrue, my partner went back to work a month ago with broken leg that was not fully healed and has been working 7 days a week since! I voluntarily did H&S for the companies I have worked for alongside my day jobs to build my career.
There are also agencies that go and source people direct from overseas - it is not all black and white especially for unskilled workers, there is next to no work if that ilk in my area, a factory order picker job in my area on the internet had received 100+ applications! The other option is the occasional cleaning job that pays £6.50 for about 10 hours a week - no one can live on that!
As with all jobs it's who you know. It's far more easier to get a job if you become friendly with the company.
There's a big problem with agencies who are exploiting immigrants and excluding British people of low skilled jobs. They operate by only recruiting immigrants and placing them onto Apprenticeship contracts, thus only paying them below minimum wage, and before they can complete the apprentice contract, they are fired. This prevents them from being put onto the official payroll and there are plenty of other immigrants to fill their place.
In Dispatches in the "Low Pay Britain " episode, I do believe, talks about exactly why. They show how a clothing warehouse only uses an agency for hiring and they only provide immigrants and are put on Apprenticeship contracts. They state that these contracts are "non workers", as they aren't on the payroll.
This is how many jobs are being filled by immigrants for low skilled labour, with low pay and cuts out Brits from getting low skilled work.
Presumable they are applying but the scrupulous employers at deliberately turning them away for cheap labour from the immigrants.
I'm not sure it's even about wage rates. It's more that there are employment agency who are able to provide a large number of motivated and non-disruptive workers at short notice. The problem with Brit workers is that they expect a certain level of treatment, sick leave, paid overtime, health and safety standards etc etc. If I owned a company who just needed some labour for a short period of time I could see the appeal of using them.
Less than 30% of jobs are advertised on Universal Jobmatch.
There is discrimination against long term unemployed as companies would rather give the job to someone already employed.
Most jobs are internally advertised and they will advertise externally when they need more.
Most people can't live on the minimum wage since the living wage is around £10.50.
Very few employers these days will train people into a job and prefer people with experience.
There is a lot of road blocks in the way before some is even offered an interview.
£10.50 an hour? There'd be a lot of people who'd suddenly be delighted with those wages. It wouldn't be to bad at all to live on that as long as you weren't living in too much of an expensive area. Not really realistic for many employers to pay that as a minimum though is it?
I'm not sure it's even about wage rates. It's more that there are employment agency who are able to provide a large number of motivated and non-disruptive workers at short notice. The problem with Brit workers is that they expect a certain level of treatment, sick leave, paid overtime, health and safety standards etc etc. If I owned a company who just needed some labour for a short period of time I could see the appeal of using them.
That's not treatment, most of what you say is part of workers rights, the law. the bare minimum. Of course workers are going to expect that when it's part of workers rights.
I mean I don't get a lunch or break unless I work over 6 hours in a day as per the terms of the law. Health and saftey standards are different for different industries but they must be followed or you have what happened to my coworker. Paid overtime is employer discretion, sick leave is also part of the law. You can't scope around the law, which a lot of employers want to do. Quite a lot advocate against workers having any rights, like the H&R at my old company tried to advocate for no lunch or breaks at all during a 10 hour work day, even lobbied it to the government against the union lol. now they are trying to do it so you only get a break at the end of your shift if you work that many hours.
As with all jobs it's who you know. It's far more easier to get a job if you become friendly with the company.
Rubbish. That might be your excuse for failing to secure the position you want but I get jobs based on my skills. My entire career has been based on being put forward for interviews by agents. That's how everyone gets their jobs in the IT sector. I have never had a personal connection with any prospective employer.
I'm not sure it's even about wage rates. It's more that there are employment agency who are able to provide a large number of motivated and non-disruptive workers at short notice. The problem with Brit workers is that they expect a certain level of treatment, sick leave, paid overtime, health and safety standards etc etc. If I owned a company who just needed some labour for a short period of time I could see the appeal of using them.
But isn't that what employment agencies do to British workers? - why favour immigrants over the indigenous populous when the end result is exactly the same?
Rubbish. That might be your excuse for failing to secure the position you want but I get jobs based on my skills. My entire career has been based on being put forward for interviews by agents. That's how everyone gets their jobs in the IT sector. I have never had a personal connection with any prospective employer.
No I did secure the position through that method about three times because I've gotten friendly with staff in shops, or through companies in town.
I live in a small town in Wales, my boyfriend lives in another small town and he got his job through asimilar method. Everyone knows it's easier to get a job when you know someone. I wanted that position and it's what I have right now. The manager of a retailer scouted me out, after we became friends as I used to go into her shop a lot. She liked my performance and attitude when in my old role and offered me a job at her shop.
I got the job right there and then in the interview process the next day. No on job evaluation or anything.
That's not treatment, most of what you say is part of workers rights, the law. the bare minimum. Of course workers are going to expect that when it's part of workers rights.
I mean I don't get a lunch or break unless I work over 6 hours in a day as per the terms of the law. Health and saftey standards are different for different industries but they must be followed or you have what happened to my coworker. Paid overtime is employer discretion, sick leave is also part of the law. You can't scope around the law, which a lot of employers want to do. Quite a lot advocate against workers having any rights, like the H&R at my old company tried to advocate for no lunch or breaks at all during a 10 hour work day, even lobbied it to the government against the union lol. now they are trying to do it so you only get a break at the end of your shift if you work that many hours.
But isn't that what employment agencies do to British workers? - why favour immigrants over the indigenous populous when the end result is exactly the same?
The difference is though is that many migrant workers don't know what rights they are entitled to so don't expect them to be followed. They won't ring in sick because they are afraid they will lose their job, they won't ask for overtime payments because it won't occur to them, they will even expect a certain level of discrimination.
Obviously I'm not saying that any of the above is right, obviously it's not and the government should be doing all it can to enforce existing workers rights (and extend them where necessary). However that is extremely hard to do when the workers themselves don't complain. And for many business owners, especially those constantly battling just to stay solvent, the temptation to use these employees is just too high.
The difference is though is that many migrant workers don't know what rights they are entitled to so don't expect them to be followed. They won't ring in sick because they are afraid they will lose their job, they won't ask for overtime payments because it won't occur to them, they will even expect a certain level of discrimination.
Spot on,recently we had a situation with a Turkish girl who was Agency staff(This is Royal Mail)First of all I'll just say the Agency staff we have regularly had in our office for the most part have been absolutely useless with a few exceptions.This girl happened to be one of them as she was a hard worker who got the job done each day never complained,despite not knowing which office she would be working in each day and basically covering offices over roughly a 50 mile area.
One day she made a mistake putting a letter through the wrong door,she was called back by customer and apolgised and was told "Dont be f**** sorry just do your f***** job.At this point she walked off only to be followed down the road and subjected to a torrent of foul mouthed abuse until the point she snapped and told him to f off.
The customer then e-mailed Moya Green about how shocked he was and it went down the line to our office who phoned the Agency and told them never to send her to a Royal Mail office again.
Despite effectively working for RM for 4 or 5 years and the incident being witnessed she was effectively sacked with no chance to even plead her case.
I was brought up in Boston Lincs. Big agricultural area and swamped recently by Eastern Europeans. The untold story is the council estates with many long term Boston families all on dole or doing black market stuff.
I went through the school system and you had families who for generations had worked the land or worked in canning factories etc. Not what I would want but I worked hard at school and passed my exams. Moved away from Boston in late 80's as did half of my school friends.
Move on to noughties and these families aren't working as they are better off not working. They are totally open about it. If they are made to work they deliberately mess up. Eastern Europeans come in and work flippin hard. No wonder the farmers prefer them.
Somewhere this all went wrong. The folks suffering in Boston are those inundated with immigrants but the fact is the jobs need to be filled. The growth of pre pack food is driving this.
Many young people today haven't a clue what a day's work is.
When I was growing up I got jobs and chores to do every day - cleaning, washing dishes, gardening, mowing the lawns, home improvements.
By the time I was 12 I'd have peeled the veg and put supper on by the time mum got in at 5.30pm every day.
Today's situation is a stark contrast - kids are often cosetted, cooped up in bedrooms playing video games or ferried relentlessly around to various sports, music lessons, clubs and organisations.
No wonder there is such a workshy epidemic - we've bred a country of indolent people who think they exist to be entertained and indulged.
That's a massive generalisation I think you'll find, and an inaccurate one at that. In fact many have proven that the current young adult demographic is the hardest-working and commits the most hours per pound earned (with inflation considered). I'm not saying that there isn't, as always, a minority that abuses the system... but most young people are pretty well-rounded when it comes to keeping a busy schedule in-line with work.
I don't think there is a workshy epidemic at all. But there we go.
Comments
also the truth of the matter is alot of that work is a best "seasonal" it maybe one or two weeks, then you are looking for another job, the current benefit system does not really encourage this, and yes conditions for those jobs are below what is expected of other temp jobs.
Those jobs will not pay your rent in the medium or even short term.
When I was growing up I got jobs and chores to do every day - cleaning, washing dishes, gardening, mowing the lawns, home improvements.
By the time I was 12 I'd have peeled the veg and put supper on by the time mum got in at 5.30pm every day.
Today's situation is a stark contrast - kids are often cosetted, cooped up in bedrooms playing video games or ferried relentlessly around to various sports, music lessons, clubs and organisations.
No wonder there is such a workshy epidemic - we've bred a country of indolent people who think they exist to be entertained and indulged.
It is a very nasty sweeping statement to say that every foreigner works twice as hard as any Brit as this is extremely untrue, my partner went back to work a month ago with broken leg that was not fully healed and has been working 7 days a week since! I voluntarily did H&S for the companies I have worked for alongside my day jobs to build my career.
There are also agencies that go and source people direct from overseas - it is not all black and white especially for unskilled workers, there is next to no work if that ilk in my area, a factory order picker job in my area on the internet had received 100+ applications! The other option is the occasional cleaning job that pays £6.50 for about 10 hours a week - no one can live on that!
Maybe they are happy to rough it 10 to a house, much like most blokes will when working away, so they can send the money home, where it is the equivalent of a small fortune?
Not sure where he got the job from, but im thinking showing up with nothing to identify who you are, asking at the back door, not knowing if the office is HQ or one of many (ie, not where the decision would be made), seemingly clueless to the idea that most on the industrial estate already have a regular contract.
Thinking it was a wasted day for him.
He'll be a desperate person trying to forge some sort of self employment because he'll have tried til he is blue in the face to get a job, he is probably fairly unskilled and has to compete against immigrants - I get a lot of Brit guys knocking on my door these days wanting to trim my trees or clear my gutters, Brits do want to work but the jobs aren't there!
I think you find its same in all the Western word kids.
As with all jobs it's who you know. It's far more easier to get a job if you become friendly with the company.
In Dispatches in the "Low Pay Britain " episode, I do believe, talks about exactly why. They show how a clothing warehouse only uses an agency for hiring and they only provide immigrants and are put on Apprenticeship contracts. They state that these contracts are "non workers", as they aren't on the payroll.
This is how many jobs are being filled by immigrants for low skilled labour, with low pay and cuts out Brits from getting low skilled work.
I'm not sure it's even about wage rates. It's more that there are employment agency who are able to provide a large number of motivated and non-disruptive workers at short notice. The problem with Brit workers is that they expect a certain level of treatment, sick leave, paid overtime, health and safety standards etc etc. If I owned a company who just needed some labour for a short period of time I could see the appeal of using them.
£10.50 an hour? There'd be a lot of people who'd suddenly be delighted with those wages. It wouldn't be to bad at all to live on that as long as you weren't living in too much of an expensive area. Not really realistic for many employers to pay that as a minimum though is it?
They are favoured because they can be used and abused by the employers?
They won't ask about their rights, their breaks, holiday pay, health and safety etc.
Many reasons, i'm sure.
That's not treatment, most of what you say is part of workers rights, the law. the bare minimum. Of course workers are going to expect that when it's part of workers rights.
I mean I don't get a lunch or break unless I work over 6 hours in a day as per the terms of the law. Health and saftey standards are different for different industries but they must be followed or you have what happened to my coworker. Paid overtime is employer discretion, sick leave is also part of the law. You can't scope around the law, which a lot of employers want to do. Quite a lot advocate against workers having any rights, like the H&R at my old company tried to advocate for no lunch or breaks at all during a 10 hour work day, even lobbied it to the government against the union lol. now they are trying to do it so you only get a break at the end of your shift if you work that many hours.
But isn't that what employment agencies do to British workers? - why favour immigrants over the indigenous populous when the end result is exactly the same?
No I did secure the position through that method about three times because I've gotten friendly with staff in shops, or through companies in town.
I live in a small town in Wales, my boyfriend lives in another small town and he got his job through asimilar method. Everyone knows it's easier to get a job when you know someone. I wanted that position and it's what I have right now. The manager of a retailer scouted me out, after we became friends as I used to go into her shop a lot. She liked my performance and attitude when in my old role and offered me a job at her shop.
I got the job right there and then in the interview process the next day. No on job evaluation or anything.
The difference is though is that many migrant workers don't know what rights they are entitled to so don't expect them to be followed. They won't ring in sick because they are afraid they will lose their job, they won't ask for overtime payments because it won't occur to them, they will even expect a certain level of discrimination.
Obviously I'm not saying that any of the above is right, obviously it's not and the government should be doing all it can to enforce existing workers rights (and extend them where necessary). However that is extremely hard to do when the workers themselves don't complain. And for many business owners, especially those constantly battling just to stay solvent, the temptation to use these employees is just too high.
One day she made a mistake putting a letter through the wrong door,she was called back by customer and apolgised and was told "Dont be f**** sorry just do your f***** job.At this point she walked off only to be followed down the road and subjected to a torrent of foul mouthed abuse until the point she snapped and told him to f off.
The customer then e-mailed Moya Green about how shocked he was and it went down the line to our office who phoned the Agency and told them never to send her to a Royal Mail office again.
Despite effectively working for RM for 4 or 5 years and the incident being witnessed she was effectively sacked with no chance to even plead her case.
I went through the school system and you had families who for generations had worked the land or worked in canning factories etc. Not what I would want but I worked hard at school and passed my exams. Moved away from Boston in late 80's as did half of my school friends.
Move on to noughties and these families aren't working as they are better off not working. They are totally open about it. If they are made to work they deliberately mess up. Eastern Europeans come in and work flippin hard. No wonder the farmers prefer them.
Somewhere this all went wrong. The folks suffering in Boston are those inundated with immigrants but the fact is the jobs need to be filled. The growth of pre pack food is driving this.
That's a massive generalisation I think you'll find, and an inaccurate one at that. In fact many have proven that the current young adult demographic is the hardest-working and commits the most hours per pound earned (with inflation considered). I'm not saying that there isn't, as always, a minority that abuses the system... but most young people are pretty well-rounded when it comes to keeping a busy schedule in-line with work.
I don't think there is a workshy epidemic at all. But there we go.