I asked you how you would feel if someone found your true identity and posted a picture of you on a public forum? A perfectly normal picture of you going about your business and gave it a bitchy and unpleasant title?
OK, that happened to me - on this very forum.
Going back several years, I had a falling out with several individuals who I knew from here - and from a more private forum. They tracked down my husband's blog and found a very unflattering picture of me in a fancy dress costume and posted it here on this forum with a thread title 'Mutton dressed as lamb'. I was devastated, not least because of the violation of my privacy.
You have twisted what I've put to such an extent that you obviously havent' read my post properly.
No I haven't. What you said you believe is very clear. I've even quoted you and refuted your claim. You don't get to absolve yourself of everything by claiming I'm twisting your words, because you would do that with anything I say. I have read your post perfectly, but you're going to try and deflect again I suppose.
And yes, I'll always impress upon anyone to stand up for themselves when it comes to bullying.
No, you won't. On this very thread, you've said things such as people harassed online should "just" not "be on it in the first place," and people should "ignore it or just don't use it?"
In spite of your claims, I have every right to refute your claim that online bullying is as bad as real life bullying. You think it's bad, I don't think it's bad. Neither of us are right, it's merely how one looks at a situation.
You have a technical right. You have no moral right, because contributing to the bullying culture is wrong.
Don't give me this 'how one looks at a situation' stuff. Bullying is bullying is bullying is bullying. I suppose that blaming a rape on the victim for the dress she wore is only a matter of perspective?
'Neither of us are right?" We're talking about real life, actual situations, for which we've given you facts and you've given me conjecture.
And yes, I do often feel for victims of crime, for victims of bullying (although having said that, they're children mainly or teenagers).....due to the fact that the term "bullying" does sound so juvenile to be applied to adults.
This is in my mind the most revealing comment you've made. People are only deserving of your sympathy if you've judged their use of language suitably mature. Everything's all about you.
(rather than about all the people who are bombarded with death and rape threats and have their addresses revealed online.)
You're obviously having a bad day, due to your enraged post.
Don't tone police me. I am enraged, because anger is the only acceptable response to someone who claims that online bullying, which they've never experienced, isn't at all damaging despite the fact people have been prompted to commit suicide from it. Anger is the only acceptable response to someone telling us that victims of harassment should just give up and come off social media, letting the people harassing them win. Anger is the only acceptable response to someone saying that online bullying is not real bullying, because it plainly is. Anger is the only acceptable response to someone saying that people 'make themselves out to be victims' when they are bombarded with horrific threats and that instead they should just shut up and take it.
May I request that you stop telling us what should be the effect of internet harassment, and instead be quiet and listen to actual victims of this abuse who tell you that it is indeed humiliating, scary, totally belittling.
So I would suggest to you to just come to terms with the fact that other people sometimes aren't going to see things the way you see them and that is most definitely not crap or pathetic.
Nope, you don't get out of your victim blaming idiocy that easily. It isn't a matter of personal opinion. It is a matter of who has basic human decency and empathy for other people and who doesn't. To not even have that is indeed pathetic. You are seriously messed up. I hope you never meet someone who cries every night without sleep because of the nasty epithets and horrifically edited pictures they are bombarded with on their Twitter and Facebook from multiple sockpuppets they keep trying and failing to ban permanently, because meeting someone like you would probably drive them to do something drastic.
Even if Leslie was not on Twitter, racists would still be saying extremely racist and abusive things about her. How do you think that affects young black girls, seeing that black women aren't allowed to be successful in their chosen jobs without tons of abuse? And that a lot of people think black women shouldn't be allowed to be visible?
Why on earth anyone famous (or anyone else) would want to put themselves on publicly accessible social media where randomers can call you all sorts of names, slag your, weight, colour, makeup or anything else that bothers them in their little minds is beyond me.
I know it gives fans access but why bother when all the crazies of the world can be brought onto your home at the click of a button.
Many of them are contractually obligated to have social media. For many others it is essential. Casting directors and producers do often look at how many social media followers actors have and it can be a deciding factor in who gets the role.
Besides, actors are just people. Plenty of people find social media enjoyable. Leslie Jones is a massive sports fan and she obviously got a huge deal of enjoyment out of sharing her passion for the Olympics with other fans. Why should she not be allowed that?
I really cannot understand why anyone, and particularly someone famous, would be stupid enough to have naked pics of themselves in online storage. It is not the 1st time these sorts of things have been hacked and it won't be the last. The internet is not 100% secure and never will be.
A lot of times people don't realise that any photo taken on their phone is automatically backed up online.
Even if Leslie was not on Twitter, racists would still be saying extremely racist and abusive things about her. How do you think that affects young black girls, seeing that black women aren't allowed to be successful in their chosen jobs without tons of abuse? And that a lot of people think black women shouldn't be allowed to be visible?
This is definitely a very true and very important angle. This isn't just about people right now, today- this is about a constant dripping of bile, constantly putting minority people down, and impressing on future generations, in this case of black girls, some horrible lessons about their lives. It will and does effect them immensely as you've stated. It really is a heartbreaking angle and a fundamentally disgusting state of affairs.
Even when these people who don't understand these things are asked what it would be like for them if it was their own children facing it, and still they refuse to understand or care.
Besides, actors are just people. Plenty of people find social media enjoyable. Leslie Jones is a massive sports fan and she obviously got a huge deal of enjoyment out of sharing her passion for the Olympics with other fans. Why should she not be allowed that?
Exactly, couldn't have put it better myself. There are people on this thread who don't care about freedom.
I'll try to compress some points into this comment.
Leslie Jones was bombarded with threats and harassment, most of it racist in nature. Under no circumstances does she deserve any of it. In any way. Anyone who thinks otherwise is victim-blaming, blaming Leslie, a victim of harassment, for the harassment. This is indisputably victim blaming by definition.
Online bullying is called this because it follows the same rules as physical bullying. It is created to intimidate and scare a person. It uses the mocking of personal attributes and achievements to belittle a person, and therefore make a person feel like they have no worth. It is a campaign of continuous bombardment of upsetting imagery and language. The perpetrators do this to gain some sort of personal power over the targeted individual.
Online bullying follows the same rules as offline bullying, and causes the same emotional disturbance, having the same effects. Anyone who understands this and still believes it is not 'real' bullying' is clueless and a person going against all logic.
Some celebrities, like regular people, have private lives. They have their own private schedules, their own contacts (friends, family, etc,) These are things of very special importance to a person. This can include a sex life. During many people's sex lives, partners send each other explicit pictures that are intended for the other person's eyes only. Sexuality, like many elements of a private life, may be of extreme importance, because it is fundamental to who one is.
Some people attempt and sometimes succeed to steal these pictures through hacking, and these pictures are posted online. The presence of an extremely private thing such as this will invariably be an awful experience, a humiliatng experience. The mocking that follows is a stream of emotionally-ruining abuse. No one deserves this, for any reason, whatsoever. To do so is the blaming of a victim of personally dehumanising activity. This is always wrong.
I hope this will make some commenters seriously think about their positions and change them. I live in hope- will any of you be the one who fails to learn something, will any of you decide you don't care about this?
I'd have to give this thread a hand-wringing score of 8/10, must do better! Out of everything going on in the world at the moment this has been made to feel like the most important thing by far. Just proving that for passing the time while sitting on the loo there is still no beating the DS forums!
I asked you how you would feel if someone found your true identity and posted a picture of you on a public forum? A perfectly normal picture of you going about your business and gave it a bitchy and unpleasant title?
OK, that happened to me - on this very forum.
Going back several years, I had a falling out with several individuals who I knew from here - and from a more private forum. They tracked down my husband's blog and found a very unflattering picture of me in a fancy dress costume and posted it here on this forum with a thread title 'Mutton dressed as lamb'. I was devastated, not least because of the violation of my privacy.
But according to you online bullying isn't real.
I would agree with you that.of course anyone doing something horrible like that, would obviously be hurtful to that person. I'm not saying that there aren't people online who delight in making others feel bad by posting insults, by name calling, uploading dodgy photos etc, I'm not denying that happens.
What i'm saying is, for me, online bullying I perceive to be very different to the sort of bullying that I know exists in schools and has existed since time began and maybe to a lesser extent in the work place........
There are some on here that are saying online bullying is as bad as bullying in real life. I can't see that. There are others however that now state that real life bullying is somehow not as bad as online bullying because you can "always walk away".....
really?....
I think it's because I've got such scant regard for social media, although I am entirely addicted to forums, but that is thanks to my argumentative nature of course.....^_^
I have said however that online bullying will be damaging as well to kids, because for the simple reason that they're just kids and the stuff that they'll be bullied about online will be of great importance to kids.
But as grownups......I really don't know. Maybe it's because it hasn't happened to me.
I think I just find it objectionable when people use over the top adjectives to describe online bullying....for example with the subject of this thread......people are using horrific a fair amount, and to me, is it really horrific or just basically insulting.....
And the amount of times the word "victim" has been used, is well over the top.
We are not talking about a few nasty names on Twitter, we are talking about hate speech, and actual crimes being committed, and a woman's physical safety being endangered.
This has nothing to do with online bullying and everything to do with racism. Period. There are some posters who never post except on threads to do with race, sexism, or homosexuality. It's pretty obvious some posters just have an agenda to spread their bigotry.
If this was a thread about a white straight man complaining about being bullied on Twitter no one would care. People wouldn't be telling him to shut up and that it's not real and that it's his fault for being on Twitter in the first place.
No I haven't. What you said you believe is very clear. I've even quoted you and refuted your claim. You don't get to absolve yourself of everything by claiming I'm twisting your words, because you would do that with anything I say. I have read your post perfectly, but you're going to try and deflect again I suppose.
No, you won't. On this very thread, you've said things such as people harassed online should "just" not "be on it in the first place," and people should "ignore it or just don't use it?"
You have a technical right. You have no moral right, because contributing to the bullying culture is wrong.
Don't give me this 'how one looks at a situation' stuff. Bullying is bullying is bullying is bullying. I suppose that blaming a rape on the victim for the dress she wore is only a matter of perspective?
'Neither of us are right?" We're talking about real life, actual situations, for which we've given you facts and you've given me conjecture.
This is in my mind the most revealing comment you've made. People are only deserving of your sympathy if you've judged their use of language suitably mature. Everything's all about you.
(rather than about all the people who are bombarded with death and rape threats and have their addresses revealed online.)
Fallacious thinking is bad. You might want to read up on the Appeal to Popularity.
Don't tone police me. I am enraged, because anger is the only acceptable response to someone who claims that online bullying, which they've never experienced, isn't at all damaging despite the fact people have been prompted to commit suicide from it. Anger is the only acceptable response to someone telling us that victims of harassment should just give up and come off social media, letting the people harassing them win. Anger is the only acceptable response to someone saying that online bullying is not real bullying, because it plainly is. Anger is the only acceptable response to someone saying that people 'make themselves out to be victims' when they are bombarded with horrific threats and that instead they should just shut up and take it.
May I request that you stop telling us what should be the effect of internet harassment, and instead be quiet and listen to actual victims of this abuse who tell you that it is indeed humiliating, scary, totally belittling.
Nope, you don't get out of your victim blaming idiocy that easily. It isn't a matter of personal opinion. It is a matter of who has basic human decency and empathy for other people and who doesn't. To not even have that is indeed pathetic. You are seriously messed up. I hope you never meet someone who cries every night without sleep because of the nasty epithets and horrifically edited pictures they are bombarded with on their Twitter and Facebook from multiple sockpuppets they keep trying and failing to ban permanently, because meeting someone like you would probably drive them to do something drastic.
I think you must take the prize for the biggest load of horsecrap hyperbole I've encountered on here for a long time.
Anyone reading your account of what has happened to this woman would assume that she had been through something so horrific and degrading that she now has been mentally, emotionally ruined!
Can you please try to get over yourself or jump down from that great big high horse you must be sitting on in order for you to think so highly of yourself.....
I think you should also rein in your tendency to patronise and to condescend to people. It really isn't an attractive trait to have y'know.
I am not trying to absolve myself of anything I've said. Why would I? To appease you?
With what evil and wickedness is going on in the world, one really needs to have a sense of perspective, and this in the real world, although upsetting to some people, although insulting, and unpleasant, there are far far worse, degrading things to happen to people and to children especially.
This is a black actress who for some unknown reason has received hurtful words from strangers online. And unfortunately for her, she made available personal photos that were able to be hacked and put up there. All of it is not nice, but let's face it, noones life is going to be ruined because of it.
We live in a world where there are people technically clever enough to hack into someones personal information. She has to take some responsibility for the fact that she chose to keep very private photos of herself online or on whatever cloud she'd posted them.
We are not talking about a few nasty names on Twitter, we are talking about hate speech, and actual crimes being committed, and a woman's physical safety being endangered.
This has nothing to do with online bullying and everything to do with racism. Period. There are some posters who never post except on threads to do with race, sexism, or homosexuality. It's pretty obvious some posters just have an agenda to spread their bigotry.
If this was a thread about a white straight man complaining about being bullied on Twitter no one would care. People wouldn't be telling him to shut up and that it's not real and that it's his fault for being on Twitter in the first place.
"hate speech" . the most overused word of 2016!
It's not hate speech, it's people insulting strangers on a silly little website.
And the only way to deal with the morons who get their kicks this way is to simply give it back to them. Whatever one does to you, then you do to that other person. It's the only language pathetic bullies understand.
"I think you must take the prize for the biggest load of horsecrap hyperbole I've encountered on here for a long time."
Nope. You just can't accept the seriousness of the situation. Do that and you'll understand.
"Anyone reading your account of what has happened to this woman would assume that she had been through something so horrific and degrading that she now has been mentally, emotionally ruined!"
Now who's engaging in hyperbole? You're strawmanning now.
"Can you please try to get over yourself or jump down from that great big high horse you must be sitting on in order for you to think so highly of yourself....."
I don't think highly of myself at all. I've made a lot of mistakes in my life and my self esteem is at an all time low. It gets even lower knowing that wanting to protect people is apparently being on a 'high horse.'
"I think you should also rein in your tendency to patronise and to condescend to people. It really isn't an attractive trait to have y'know."
If you feel patronised, maybe you need to take a step back and learn more about the subject. You've demonstrated time and again that no matter how many people say online harassment is so very harmful, you'll refuse to listen, including to people who have had those actual experiences. I have unattractive traits, but knowing the damage things do to people and wanting to help is not one of them.
"I am not trying to absolve myself of anything I've said. Why would I? To appease you?"
No, you're trying to justify what you've said despite the truth being explained to you.
"With what evil and wickedness is going on in the world, one really needs to have a sense of perspective"
This is what's called the Worse Problem Fallacy. The idea that we should not try and correct something because there is something worse out there is textbook fallacious. It also makes no sense, because it would mean that no problems would ever be resolved because there is always a 'most suffering person in the entire world.'
"and this in the real world, although upsetting to some people, although insulting, and unpleasant,"
Now who's being patronising!? The' unpleasantness' is the real world, and online bullying, has real world consequences.
"This is a black actress who for some unknown reason has received hurtful words from strangers online."
The reason is not unknown in the slightest, you simply haven't understood it. The reason is because there are evil people in the world who want power and dominance over other beings, and so torment people so they gain this power. They want to feel superior, and both typed abuse and racism are ways of feeling superior, at the expence of others.
"And unfortunately for her, she made available personal photos that were able to be hacked and put up there. All of it is not nice, but let's face it, noones life is going to be ruined because of it."
Tell that to the people who have died because they were prompted to kill themselves a surge of hate coming at them from anonymous people.
" She has to take some responsibility for the fact that she chose to keep very private photos of herself online or on whatever cloud she'd posted them."
No, she hasn't. You are blaming someone for being targeted in a crime. She did not provoke the attack and she did not do the attack, so she is not to blame. How you can say you don't victim blame is beyond me.
"What i'm saying is, for me, online bullying I perceive to be very different to the sort of bullying that I know exists in schools and has existed since time began and maybe to a lesser extent in the work place........"
Exactly. You perceive it to be, which you think trumps actual experience and actual stories.
"There are some on here that are saying online bullying is as bad as bullying in real life. I can't see that."
Maybe that is because you've never experienced it. It doesn't matter that you can't see it yourself, people have told you it does and so you should believe them.
"There are others however that now state that real life bullying is somehow not as bad as online bullying because you can "always walk away".....
really?...."
If you're confused, perhaps don't post in such a grave topic.
"I think it's because I've got such scant regard for social media, although I am entirely addicted to forums, but that is thanks to my argumentative nature of course.....^_^"
Well, most people actually use social media because it is fun, or because they need it (work, activism, etc.) It doesn't matter if you find it inconsequential. If I burst into a room with you doing your hobby inside, with 50 other people, and we all shout and scream at you, hold up pictures of you changed to look like you've been hanged, pray on your deepest insecurities etc, you would find it horrible.
"I have said however that online bullying will be damaging as well to kids, because for the simple reason that they're just kids and the stuff that they'll be bullied about online will be of great importance to kids."
And the stuff that adults are bullied about will be of great importance to adults! You are literally explaining how online bullying works and yet you still don't see it.
"But as grownups......I really don't know. Maybe it's because it hasn't happened to me."
Thanks for clarifying again that only people you decide are sufficiently mature get your sympathy. You're basing this in feeling superior to other people, much like bullies do.
"I think I just find it objectionable when people use over the top adjectives to describe online bullying....for example with the subject of this thread......people are using horrific a fair amount, and to me, is it really horrific or just basically insulting....."
"People are not being 'over the top,' you are dismissing real experiences in favour of your conjecture about how you'd feel. You are underestimating seriously the effects of these things. It is you who hasn't got the hang of the perspective, not other people.
"And the amount of times the word "victim" has been used, is well over the top."
Well perhaps if you stopped berating people for being victims, this wouldn't happen.
Boo hoo, poor icle racists. Won't someone call the waaaaaaaambulence?
Hilarious that the same people who are been incredibly upset in the past over being called bigots are now claiming online bullying does not exist and anyone upset by what's said to them online should stfu and get offline.
It's not hate speech, it's people insulting strangers on a silly little website.
And the only way to deal with the morons who get their kicks this way is to simply give it back to them. Whatever one does to you, then you do to that other person. It's the only language pathetic bullies understand.
Under the law it is hate speech.
Why are you so incredibly desperate to defend racism?? If you don't like it, why don't you just ignore it?
If you don't like Leslie Jones you're a racist
You can dislike her all you like. Hate her if you want. Literally no one has said disliking her makes you a racist. Throwing racial abuse and committing actual literal crimes (as defined by the authorities) simply because you hate seeing a black woman be successful makes you a racist.
If you don't like the new Ghostbusters you're sexist
Nope, another lie. No one has said that. Personally I despised the new Ghostbusters, I thought it was a load of bullcrap. If you hate the idea of a movie starring women so much that you run hate campaigns against it and commit illegal acts like computer hacking and fraud just to try to make the movie look less popular than it is, then you probably are sexist.
If you don't like seeing Leslie Jones' body you're a racist
Nope, if you commit a crime in order to steal private naked photos of someone, you're a criminal. If you use offensive racial terms to describe a black woman's body, you are racist. If you think it's no big deal for someone to be the victim of a crime serious enough for the FBI to investigate, a crime people serve ten year prison terms for, simply because the person is black and a woman and therefore has no business living her life and having a successful job, you're a ****.
It's not hate speech, it's people insulting strangers on a silly little website.
And the only way to deal with the morons who get their kicks this way is to simply give it back to them. Whatever one does to you, then you do to that other person. It's the only language pathetic bullies understand.
Ah, so you're saying that to combat bullies, people should be as bad as they are. Yes, that will totally teach the bullies that their behavior is unacceptable!
I think you must take the prize for the biggest load of horsecrap hyperbole I've encountered on here for a long time.
Anyone reading your account of what has happened to this woman would assume that she had been through something so horrific and degrading that she now has been mentally, emotionally ruined!
Can you please try to get over yourself or jump down from that great big high horse you must be sitting on in order for you to think so highly of yourself.....
I think you should also rein in your tendency to patronise and to condescend to people. It really isn't an attractive trait to have y'know.
I am not trying to absolve myself of anything I've said. Why would I? To appease you?
With what evil and wickedness is going on in the world, one really needs to have a sense of perspective, and this in the real world, although upsetting to some people, although insulting, and unpleasant, there are far far worse, degrading things to happen to people and to children especially.
This is a black actress who for some unknown reason has received hurtful words from strangers online. And unfortunately for her, she made available personal photos that were able to be hacked and put up there. All of it is not nice, but let's face it, noones life is going to be ruined because of it.
We live in a world where there are people technically clever enough to hack into someones personal information. She has to take some responsibility for the fact that she chose to keep very private photos of herself online or on whatever cloud she'd posted them.
Your viewpoint is disturbing.
The fact that you seek to dismiss this is really depressing. .
I would agree with you that.of course anyone doing something horrible like that, would obviously be hurtful to that person. I'm not saying that there aren't people online who delight in making others feel bad by posting insults, by name calling, uploading dodgy photos etc, I'm not denying that happens.
What i'm saying is, for me, online bullying I perceive to be very different to the sort of bullying that I know exists in schools and has existed since time began and maybe to a lesser extent in the work place........
There are some on here that are saying online bullying is as bad as bullying in real life. I can't see that. There are others however that now state that real life bullying is somehow not as bad as online bullying because you can "always walk away".....
really?....
I think it's because I've got such scant regard for social media, although I am entirely addicted to forums, but that is thanks to my argumentative nature of course.....^_^
I have said however that online bullying will be damaging as well to kids, because for the simple reason that they're just kids and the stuff that they'll be bullied about online will be of great importance to kids.
But as grownups......I really don't know. Maybe it's because it hasn't happened to me.
I think I just find it objectionable when people use over the top adjectives to describe online bullying....for example with the subject of this thread......people are using horrific a fair amount, and to me, is it really horrific or just basically insulting.....
And the amount of times the word "victim" has been used, is well over the top.
Comments
No I haven't. What you said you believe is very clear. I've even quoted you and refuted your claim. You don't get to absolve yourself of everything by claiming I'm twisting your words, because you would do that with anything I say. I have read your post perfectly, but you're going to try and deflect again I suppose.
No, you won't. On this very thread, you've said things such as people harassed online should "just" not "be on it in the first place," and people should "ignore it or just don't use it?"
You have a technical right. You have no moral right, because contributing to the bullying culture is wrong.
Don't give me this 'how one looks at a situation' stuff. Bullying is bullying is bullying is bullying. I suppose that blaming a rape on the victim for the dress she wore is only a matter of perspective?
'Neither of us are right?" We're talking about real life, actual situations, for which we've given you facts and you've given me conjecture.
This is in my mind the most revealing comment you've made. People are only deserving of your sympathy if you've judged their use of language suitably mature. Everything's all about you.
(rather than about all the people who are bombarded with death and rape threats and have their addresses revealed online.)
Fallacious thinking is bad. You might want to read up on the Appeal to Popularity.
Don't tone police me. I am enraged, because anger is the only acceptable response to someone who claims that online bullying, which they've never experienced, isn't at all damaging despite the fact people have been prompted to commit suicide from it. Anger is the only acceptable response to someone telling us that victims of harassment should just give up and come off social media, letting the people harassing them win. Anger is the only acceptable response to someone saying that online bullying is not real bullying, because it plainly is. Anger is the only acceptable response to someone saying that people 'make themselves out to be victims' when they are bombarded with horrific threats and that instead they should just shut up and take it.
May I request that you stop telling us what should be the effect of internet harassment, and instead be quiet and listen to actual victims of this abuse who tell you that it is indeed humiliating, scary, totally belittling.
Nope, you don't get out of your victim blaming idiocy that easily. It isn't a matter of personal opinion. It is a matter of who has basic human decency and empathy for other people and who doesn't. To not even have that is indeed pathetic. You are seriously messed up. I hope you never meet someone who cries every night without sleep because of the nasty epithets and horrifically edited pictures they are bombarded with on their Twitter and Facebook from multiple sockpuppets they keep trying and failing to ban permanently, because meeting someone like you would probably drive them to do something drastic.
It's just incredibly depressing at this point.
Many of them are contractually obligated to have social media. For many others it is essential. Casting directors and producers do often look at how many social media followers actors have and it can be a deciding factor in who gets the role.
Besides, actors are just people. Plenty of people find social media enjoyable. Leslie Jones is a massive sports fan and she obviously got a huge deal of enjoyment out of sharing her passion for the Olympics with other fans. Why should she not be allowed that?
A lot of times people don't realise that any photo taken on their phone is automatically backed up online.
This is definitely a very true and very important angle. This isn't just about people right now, today- this is about a constant dripping of bile, constantly putting minority people down, and impressing on future generations, in this case of black girls, some horrible lessons about their lives. It will and does effect them immensely as you've stated. It really is a heartbreaking angle and a fundamentally disgusting state of affairs.
Even when these people who don't understand these things are asked what it would be like for them if it was their own children facing it, and still they refuse to understand or care.
Exactly, couldn't have put it better myself. There are people on this thread who don't care about freedom.
Leslie Jones was bombarded with threats and harassment, most of it racist in nature. Under no circumstances does she deserve any of it. In any way. Anyone who thinks otherwise is victim-blaming, blaming Leslie, a victim of harassment, for the harassment. This is indisputably victim blaming by definition.
Online bullying is called this because it follows the same rules as physical bullying. It is created to intimidate and scare a person. It uses the mocking of personal attributes and achievements to belittle a person, and therefore make a person feel like they have no worth. It is a campaign of continuous bombardment of upsetting imagery and language. The perpetrators do this to gain some sort of personal power over the targeted individual.
Online bullying follows the same rules as offline bullying, and causes the same emotional disturbance, having the same effects. Anyone who understands this and still believes it is not 'real' bullying' is clueless and a person going against all logic.
Some celebrities, like regular people, have private lives. They have their own private schedules, their own contacts (friends, family, etc,) These are things of very special importance to a person. This can include a sex life. During many people's sex lives, partners send each other explicit pictures that are intended for the other person's eyes only. Sexuality, like many elements of a private life, may be of extreme importance, because it is fundamental to who one is.
Some people attempt and sometimes succeed to steal these pictures through hacking, and these pictures are posted online. The presence of an extremely private thing such as this will invariably be an awful experience, a humiliatng experience. The mocking that follows is a stream of emotionally-ruining abuse. No one deserves this, for any reason, whatsoever. To do so is the blaming of a victim of personally dehumanising activity. This is always wrong.
I hope this will make some commenters seriously think about their positions and change them. I live in hope- will any of you be the one who fails to learn something, will any of you decide you don't care about this?
Unless it's THEIR freedom to be judgmental and/or abusive morons. >:(
I would agree with you that.of course anyone doing something horrible like that, would obviously be hurtful to that person. I'm not saying that there aren't people online who delight in making others feel bad by posting insults, by name calling, uploading dodgy photos etc, I'm not denying that happens.
What i'm saying is, for me, online bullying I perceive to be very different to the sort of bullying that I know exists in schools and has existed since time began and maybe to a lesser extent in the work place........
There are some on here that are saying online bullying is as bad as bullying in real life. I can't see that. There are others however that now state that real life bullying is somehow not as bad as online bullying because you can "always walk away".....
really?....
I think it's because I've got such scant regard for social media, although I am entirely addicted to forums, but that is thanks to my argumentative nature of course.....^_^
I have said however that online bullying will be damaging as well to kids, because for the simple reason that they're just kids and the stuff that they'll be bullied about online will be of great importance to kids.
But as grownups......I really don't know. Maybe it's because it hasn't happened to me.
I think I just find it objectionable when people use over the top adjectives to describe online bullying....for example with the subject of this thread......people are using horrific a fair amount, and to me, is it really horrific or just basically insulting.....
And the amount of times the word "victim" has been used, is well over the top.
This has nothing to do with online bullying and everything to do with racism. Period. There are some posters who never post except on threads to do with race, sexism, or homosexuality. It's pretty obvious some posters just have an agenda to spread their bigotry.
If this was a thread about a white straight man complaining about being bullied on Twitter no one would care. People wouldn't be telling him to shut up and that it's not real and that it's his fault for being on Twitter in the first place.
Anyone reading your account of what has happened to this woman would assume that she had been through something so horrific and degrading that she now has been mentally, emotionally ruined!
Can you please try to get over yourself or jump down from that great big high horse you must be sitting on in order for you to think so highly of yourself.....
I think you should also rein in your tendency to patronise and to condescend to people. It really isn't an attractive trait to have y'know.
I am not trying to absolve myself of anything I've said. Why would I? To appease you?
With what evil and wickedness is going on in the world, one really needs to have a sense of perspective, and this in the real world, although upsetting to some people, although insulting, and unpleasant, there are far far worse, degrading things to happen to people and to children especially.
This is a black actress who for some unknown reason has received hurtful words from strangers online. And unfortunately for her, she made available personal photos that were able to be hacked and put up there. All of it is not nice, but let's face it, noones life is going to be ruined because of it.
We live in a world where there are people technically clever enough to hack into someones personal information. She has to take some responsibility for the fact that she chose to keep very private photos of herself online or on whatever cloud she'd posted them.
It's not hate speech, it's people insulting strangers on a silly little website.
And the only way to deal with the morons who get their kicks this way is to simply give it back to them. Whatever one does to you, then you do to that other person. It's the only language pathetic bullies understand.
Nope. You just can't accept the seriousness of the situation. Do that and you'll understand.
"Anyone reading your account of what has happened to this woman would assume that she had been through something so horrific and degrading that she now has been mentally, emotionally ruined!"
Now who's engaging in hyperbole? You're strawmanning now.
"Can you please try to get over yourself or jump down from that great big high horse you must be sitting on in order for you to think so highly of yourself....."
I don't think highly of myself at all. I've made a lot of mistakes in my life and my self esteem is at an all time low. It gets even lower knowing that wanting to protect people is apparently being on a 'high horse.'
"I think you should also rein in your tendency to patronise and to condescend to people. It really isn't an attractive trait to have y'know."
If you feel patronised, maybe you need to take a step back and learn more about the subject. You've demonstrated time and again that no matter how many people say online harassment is so very harmful, you'll refuse to listen, including to people who have had those actual experiences. I have unattractive traits, but knowing the damage things do to people and wanting to help is not one of them.
"I am not trying to absolve myself of anything I've said. Why would I? To appease you?"
No, you're trying to justify what you've said despite the truth being explained to you.
"With what evil and wickedness is going on in the world, one really needs to have a sense of perspective"
This is what's called the Worse Problem Fallacy. The idea that we should not try and correct something because there is something worse out there is textbook fallacious. It also makes no sense, because it would mean that no problems would ever be resolved because there is always a 'most suffering person in the entire world.'
"and this in the real world, although upsetting to some people, although insulting, and unpleasant,"
Now who's being patronising!? The' unpleasantness' is the real world, and online bullying, has real world consequences.
"This is a black actress who for some unknown reason has received hurtful words from strangers online."
The reason is not unknown in the slightest, you simply haven't understood it. The reason is because there are evil people in the world who want power and dominance over other beings, and so torment people so they gain this power. They want to feel superior, and both typed abuse and racism are ways of feeling superior, at the expence of others.
"And unfortunately for her, she made available personal photos that were able to be hacked and put up there. All of it is not nice, but let's face it, noones life is going to be ruined because of it."
Tell that to the people who have died because they were prompted to kill themselves a surge of hate coming at them from anonymous people.
" She has to take some responsibility for the fact that she chose to keep very private photos of herself online or on whatever cloud she'd posted them."
No, she hasn't. You are blaming someone for being targeted in a crime. She did not provoke the attack and she did not do the attack, so she is not to blame. How you can say you don't victim blame is beyond me.
Exactly. You perceive it to be, which you think trumps actual experience and actual stories.
"There are some on here that are saying online bullying is as bad as bullying in real life. I can't see that."
Maybe that is because you've never experienced it. It doesn't matter that you can't see it yourself, people have told you it does and so you should believe them.
"There are others however that now state that real life bullying is somehow not as bad as online bullying because you can "always walk away".....
really?....
If you're confused, perhaps don't post in such a grave topic.
"I think it's because I've got such scant regard for social media, although I am entirely addicted to forums, but that is thanks to my argumentative nature of course.....^_^"
Well, most people actually use social media because it is fun, or because they need it (work, activism, etc.) It doesn't matter if you find it inconsequential. If I burst into a room with you doing your hobby inside, with 50 other people, and we all shout and scream at you, hold up pictures of you changed to look like you've been hanged, pray on your deepest insecurities etc, you would find it horrible.
"I have said however that online bullying will be damaging as well to kids, because for the simple reason that they're just kids and the stuff that they'll be bullied about online will be of great importance to kids."
And the stuff that adults are bullied about will be of great importance to adults! You are literally explaining how online bullying works and yet you still don't see it.
"But as grownups......I really don't know. Maybe it's because it hasn't happened to me."
Thanks for clarifying again that only people you decide are sufficiently mature get your sympathy. You're basing this in feeling superior to other people, much like bullies do.
"I think I just find it objectionable when people use over the top adjectives to describe online bullying....for example with the subject of this thread......people are using horrific a fair amount, and to me, is it really horrific or just basically insulting....."
"People are not being 'over the top,' you are dismissing real experiences in favour of your conjecture about how you'd feel. You are underestimating seriously the effects of these things. It is you who hasn't got the hang of the perspective, not other people.
"And the amount of times the word "victim" has been used, is well over the top."
Well perhaps if you stopped berating people for being victims, this wouldn't happen.
Hilarious that the same people who are been incredibly upset in the past over being called bigots are now claiming online bullying does not exist and anyone upset by what's said to them online should stfu and get offline.
Under the law it is hate speech.
Why are you so incredibly desperate to defend racism?? If you don't like it, why don't you just ignore it?
You can dislike her all you like. Hate her if you want. Literally no one has said disliking her makes you a racist. Throwing racial abuse and committing actual literal crimes (as defined by the authorities) simply because you hate seeing a black woman be successful makes you a racist.
Nope, another lie. No one has said that. Personally I despised the new Ghostbusters, I thought it was a load of bullcrap. If you hate the idea of a movie starring women so much that you run hate campaigns against it and commit illegal acts like computer hacking and fraud just to try to make the movie look less popular than it is, then you probably are sexist.
Nope, if you commit a crime in order to steal private naked photos of someone, you're a criminal. If you use offensive racial terms to describe a black woman's body, you are racist. If you think it's no big deal for someone to be the victim of a crime serious enough for the FBI to investigate, a crime people serve ten year prison terms for, simply because the person is black and a woman and therefore has no business living her life and having a successful job, you're a ****.
Ah, so you're saying that to combat bullies, people should be as bad as they are. Yes, that will totally teach the bullies that their behavior is unacceptable!
Your viewpoint is disturbing.
The fact that you seek to dismiss this is really depressing. .
Oh you are.
I'm embarrassed and ashamed on your behalf.:(