Forgive me, but the conclusions of that study weren't anything to write home about.
Similar decreased frontal lobe activity appears in people improvising music, for instance, and in people who are pissed. Their conclusion seems to be that it 'deserves further investigation.' Which isn't much to hang your whole argument on, to be honest.
Is it? Im basically saying when you allow tricksters you will see positive results.
Bollywood:Monks? lol. Yeah sure. Youre clueless.
Why is it that PSi never increases-according to the studies you present its very weak and un-interesting,now surely genetically it should increase by generation.But doesnt ,it remains weak and negligible .
Forgive me, but the conclusions of that study weren't anything to write home about.
Similar decreased frontal lobe activity appears in people improvising music, for instance, and in people who are pissed. Their conclusion seems to be that it 'deserves further investigation.' Which isn't much to hang your whole argument on, to be honest.
Decreased frontal lobe activity isn't the only feature of the study though.
If you read it you will see other areas of the brain that were decreased and some activated.
Decrease in area of language function and self awareness.
Composing music has to do with decreased inhibition and increased sensory awareness.
In addition if someone is in a genuine creative state that would be different from a fake creative state.
The purpose of the study was not to prove psi but to demonstrate the difference between trance state and normal state, so that a medium who is faking it wouldn't be in a trance state.
Is it? Im basically saying when you allow tricksters you will see positive results.
Bollywood:Monks? lol. Yeah sure. Youre clueless.
Why is it that PSi never increases-according to the studies you present its very weak and un-interesting,now surely genetically it should increase by generation.But doesnt ,it remains weak and negligible .
It wasn't being compared to Sally if you read the posts.
It was in response to posts that all psychics and mediums are frauds and charlatans.
It didn't matter that it was psycography as again the point of the study was whether the medium was faking or not faking the responses.
Fact mediums dont contact the dead,no evidence anywhere since the whole charade began in Victorian era. Whether they are knowingly frauds or simply mistaken,they have no abilities.
Fact mediums dont contact the dead,no evidence anywhere since the whole charade began in Victorian era. Whether they are knowingly frauds or simply mistaken,they have no abilities.
We don't know that they have no abilities, no matter how often you repeat that.
They could indeed have information that is not accessed by normal means.
You know, if I genuinely had an extraordinary ability, say I could walk on water, I'd be only too pleased, nay desperate, to prove it to others. Even if I could only walk on water 5% of the time I'd be more than happy to try to demonstrate my "gift" over and over and over again until I could prove to others that I can do it.
In fact, the only thing which would stop me from wanting to prove it would be if I actually couldn't walk on water at all and was doing it all by trickery.
The preponderence of evidence that people can access information beyond normal means is good. Regardless of the Sally Morgans of this world, psi research and experiments have produced consistent results. Daryl Bems presentiment studies, which were criticised in the last bun fight on here as failing to be replicated by Richard Wiseman - quelle suprise - have now been positively repilcated on numerous occassions. The only valid criticism is the effects are small, but so what, a little bit of psi still challenges the idea that the current paradigm needs some adjustment.
perhaps though we do need to bring together the best parapsychology researchrs and the big names in the psychic community to work together to achieve even better results.
You know, if I genuinely had an extraordinary ability, say I could walk on water, I'd be only too pleased, nay desperate, to prove it to others. Even if I could only walk on water 5% of the time I'd be more than happy to try to demonstrate my "gift" over and over and over again until I could prove to others that I can do it.
In fact, the only thing which would stop me from wanting to prove it would be if I actually couldn't walk on water at all and was doing it all by trickery.
Are you sure about that?
What I mean is, think about our past in this country when paranormal powers were officially believed in. People got blamed for stuff, and they ended up being killed for their so-called paranormally caused crimes ...
I've known people, (who weren't making money from it), who I'm totally sure genuinely believed they were psychic mediums, but I don't believe they were/are. I think they just had/have vivid imaginations and a highly developed intuition about people.
Perhaps Sally is in the main like that - I do believe in psychic gifts and spirits, but she doesn't seem so psychic to me.
Anyway although what her husband and son in law said was really terrible, I think there's an immense amount of hostility around towards psychic mediums - this thread is proof of that - so that I can well believe she might have had "extreme death threats" - from whoever, perhaps even anonymously - and then this guy Mark Tilbrook turns up outside her shows more than once, was it three times, giving out leaflets which imply that she could be a fake- I can understand in that situation John Morgan getting so alarmed for her safety that he lost emotional control and lashed out verbally, and maybe said things to hurt which he didn't actually mean.
So I think Mark Tilbook is also to blame because he was provocative. What else did he expect would happen from his leafletting campaign? I know he was legally allowed to leaflet, but I don't think he should be leafletting outside shows like that.
Now, Mark Tilbrook and Colin Fry sat down on the sofa and there wasn't a bad word between them. I think that's because Colin Fry is a man also, so therefore Mark Tilbrook wouldn't seem as potentially threatening to him as he would to Sally and her family.
Fact mediums dont contact the dead,no evidence anywhere since the whole charade began in Victorian era. Whether they are knowingly frauds or simply mistaken,they have no abilities.
What I mean is, think about our past in this country when paranormal powers were officially believed in. People got blamed for stuff, and they ended up being killed for their so-called paranormally caused crimes ...
People got blamed because of fear of paranormal experience, not the belief itself.
The preponderence of evidence that people can access information beyond normal means is good. Regardless of the Sally Morgans of this world, psi research and experiments have produced consistent results. Daryl Bems presentiment studies, which were criticised in the last bun fight on here as failing to be replicated by Richard Wiseman - quelle suprise - have now been positively repilcated on numerous occassions. The only valid criticism is the effects are small, but so what, a little bit of psi still challenges the idea that the current paradigm needs some adjustment.
perhaps though we do need to bring together the best parapsychology researchrs and the big names in the psychic community to work together to achieve even better results.
I agree. Good results considering that psi can't be studied like a virus.
Mediums ive seen tend to switch around methods of receiving info based on how good they are at cold reading. Sometimes its a "feeling" then "hes stood here" " he's showing me X" Hes telling me X". I can think of a very easy test based on those parameters. Sitter conceals an object/photo the spirit describes what it is. Or a simple question and answer.
"What date did he/she die?" "Which hospital were they in prior to passing /when they passed"
Id like an explanation of how a dead person communicates full stop being that they are dead. It;s rubbish lets be honest.
I've seen that happen on various two a penny phsychic tv shows - X says you're carrying his locket/ring/photo, all that happens then is it's dismissed as coincidence, cold reading, lucky guess.
I've seen that happen on various two a penny phsychic tv shows - X says you're carrying his locket/ring/photo, all that happens then is it's dismissed as coincidence, cold reading, lucky guess.
It doesnt happen like that -even on TV- and if it did its hot reading .What other explanation is there?That the dead can communicate so fluently despite being dead? Curious that they never impart any words of wisdom from the other side about the afterlife,God ,etc.
It doesnt happen like that -even on TV- and if it did its hot reading .What other explanation is there?That the dead can communicate so fluently despite being dead? Curious that they never impart any words of wisdom from the other side about the afterlife,God ,etc.
The dead are clearly under a gagging clause which prevents them reporting anything beyond the mundane.
What I mean is, think about our past in this country when paranormal powers were officially believed in. People got blamed for stuff, and they ended up being killed for their so-called paranormally caused crimes ...
You seem to be alluding to the days when we burned witches and locked people in asylums. Correct me if I'm wrong of course.
I like to think we have moved on from those days - that said until someone can show actual proof, evidence beyond a reasonable doubt I don't believe any of it.
It doesnt happen like that -even on TV- and if it did its hot reading .What other explanation is there?That the dead can communicate so fluently despite being dead? Curious that they never impart any words of wisdom from the other side about the afterlife,God ,etc.
It's not 'hot reading'; that's research before the medium meets the subject. It's not even 'cold reading', that's getting new information during the session.
All it is is making a statement which is very probably true of someone who's visiting a medium.
(And I think they should be the other way round, as well, but for some reason they're not).
It doesnt happen like that -even on TV- and if it did its hot reading .What other explanation is there?That the dead can communicate so fluently despite being dead? Curious that they never impart any words of wisdom from the other side about the afterlife,God ,etc.
You contradict yourself. You demand the deceased communicate in a certain way to meet your standards of proof, then decry it being done as irrational/impossible. What method of communicating would you find personally convincing, if any?
There's been plenty of information about the other side passed to sitters, if you're familiar with the research.
Comments
Oh so we shouldnt bother catching tricksters now then? Right. You wish.
You can if you want but there are few people to catch.
Most people in psi studies aren't getting money or recognition.
That's why you don't know the names of the people in the Jefferson Hospital study, or the monks in Dean Radin's study.
That's a bit confusing.
Forgive me, but the conclusions of that study weren't anything to write home about.
Similar decreased frontal lobe activity appears in people improvising music, for instance, and in people who are pissed. Their conclusion seems to be that it 'deserves further investigation.' Which isn't much to hang your whole argument on, to be honest.
Is it? Im basically saying when you allow tricksters you will see positive results.
Bollywood:Monks? lol. Yeah sure. Youre clueless.
Why is it that PSi never increases-according to the studies you present its very weak and un-interesting,now surely genetically it should increase by generation.But doesnt ,it remains weak and negligible .
Decreased frontal lobe activity isn't the only feature of the study though.
If you read it you will see other areas of the brain that were decreased and some activated.
Decrease in area of language function and self awareness.
Composing music has to do with decreased inhibition and increased sensory awareness.
In addition if someone is in a genuine creative state that would be different from a fake creative state.
The purpose of the study was not to prove psi but to demonstrate the difference between trance state and normal state, so that a medium who is faking it wouldn't be in a trance state.
You said people who can catch tricksters.
I have read it, and the conclusion was (to paraphrase) that the results were 'interesting' and 'deserving of further study.'
And similar results are seen in people who are improvising music?
Don't forget this was a study of psychography only. Not sure how that extrapolates to the lovely Sally's methodology.
Yes it was interesting and more to come.
It wasn't being compared to Sally if you read the posts.
It was in response to posts that all psychics and mediums are frauds and charlatans.
It didn't matter that it was psycography as again the point of the study was whether the medium was faking or not faking the responses.
Fact mediums dont contact the dead,no evidence anywhere since the whole charade began in Victorian era. Whether they are knowingly frauds or simply mistaken,they have no abilities.
We don't know that they have no abilities, no matter how often you repeat that.
They could indeed have information that is not accessed by normal means.
In fact, the only thing which would stop me from wanting to prove it would be if I actually couldn't walk on water at all and was doing it all by trickery.
No they couldnt.
perhaps though we do need to bring together the best parapsychology researchrs and the big names in the psychic community to work together to achieve even better results.
Are you sure about that?
What I mean is, think about our past in this country when paranormal powers were officially believed in. People got blamed for stuff, and they ended up being killed for their so-called paranormally caused crimes ...
Perhaps Sally is in the main like that - I do believe in psychic gifts and spirits, but she doesn't seem so psychic to me.
Anyway although what her husband and son in law said was really terrible, I think there's an immense amount of hostility around towards psychic mediums - this thread is proof of that - so that I can well believe she might have had "extreme death threats" - from whoever, perhaps even anonymously - and then this guy Mark Tilbrook turns up outside her shows more than once, was it three times, giving out leaflets which imply that she could be a fake- I can understand in that situation John Morgan getting so alarmed for her safety that he lost emotional control and lashed out verbally, and maybe said things to hurt which he didn't actually mean.
So I think Mark Tilbook is also to blame because he was provocative. What else did he expect would happen from his leafletting campaign? I know he was legally allowed to leaflet, but I don't think he should be leafletting outside shows like that.
Now, Mark Tilbrook and Colin Fry sat down on the sofa and there wasn't a bad word between them. I think that's because Colin Fry is a man also, so therefore Mark Tilbrook wouldn't seem as potentially threatening to him as he would to Sally and her family.
People got blamed because of fear of paranormal experience, not the belief itself.
My late Mother appears.
Am I dreaming?
Her voice is loud downstairs.
She coughs to awake me.
Is this a sign?
I agree. Good results considering that psi can't be studied like a virus.
I've seen that happen on various two a penny phsychic tv shows - X says you're carrying his locket/ring/photo, all that happens then is it's dismissed as coincidence, cold reading, lucky guess.
It doesnt happen like that -even on TV- and if it did its hot reading .What other explanation is there?That the dead can communicate so fluently despite being dead? Curious that they never impart any words of wisdom from the other side about the afterlife,God ,etc.
The dead are clearly under a gagging clause which prevents them reporting anything beyond the mundane.
You seem to be alluding to the days when we burned witches and locked people in asylums. Correct me if I'm wrong of course.
I like to think we have moved on from those days - that said until someone can show actual proof, evidence beyond a reasonable doubt I don't believe any of it.
It's not 'hot reading'; that's research before the medium meets the subject. It's not even 'cold reading', that's getting new information during the session.
All it is is making a statement which is very probably true of someone who's visiting a medium.
(And I think they should be the other way round, as well, but for some reason they're not).
You contradict yourself. You demand the deceased communicate in a certain way to meet your standards of proof, then decry it being done as irrational/impossible. What method of communicating would you find personally convincing, if any?
There's been plenty of information about the other side passed to sitters, if you're familiar with the research.