Doc Martin (Part 17 — Spoilers)

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  • MofromcoMofromco Posts: 1,339
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    NewPark wrote: »
    Thanks for your point of view, Mofromco.

    I thought it was a poignant moment when, in S4E7, he was checking into the conference hotel that Edith lured him to, the receptionist referred to him as "Mr." Ellingham, and he corrected her to "Dr." Ellingham. (In England, surgeons are traditionally called Mr., as opposed to Dr.)

    The differing titles were part of the entire confusion....totally part of the whole confusing situation..between Ellingham and Montgomery.
  • BloodphobiaBloodphobia Posts: 448
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    I had a different interpretation of the hotel receptionist's comment. Unless the receptionist was told Martin was a consultant, would she have known to call him Mr? I thought she called him "Mr." As she would most men unless she knew his title. Martin corrected her with "Dr." As he often corrects people

    Also, has someone been "lured" to a hotel if he arrives with a suitcase?
  • Shop GirlShop Girl Posts: 1,284
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    I had a different interpretation of the hotel receptionist's comment. Unless the receptionist was told Martin was a consultant, would she have known to call him Mr? I thought she called him "Mr." As she would most men unless she knew his title. Martin corrected her with "Dr." As he often corrects people

    Also, has someone been "lured" to a hotel if he arrives with a suitcase?

    I agree with New Park and Mofromco that it was a humbling moment for him and the receptionist mistook him for a surgeon. There was just a feeling in that moment that he was downgrading his title.

    I also believe that he was "lured" to the hotel under false pretenses. He was certainly expecting to have a room to himself and was pretty taken aback to find out he was sharing with her.
  • BloodphobiaBloodphobia Posts: 448
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    A surgeon does not have the title mister until he or she becomes a consultant. Wouldn't the receptionist more likely think he was a gynecologist as it was an obstetrical and gynecological meeting as Edith explained it

    Why didn't he return to the reception and ask for another room instead od unpacking and changing clothes? It was only after he thought he had his hemophobia in check that he decided not to stay with Edith for the night
  • MofromcoMofromco Posts: 1,339
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    A surgeon does not have the title mister until he or she becomes a consultant. Wouldn't the receptionist more likely think he was a gynecologist as it was an obstetrical and gynecological meeting as Edith explained it

    Why didn't he return to the reception and ask for another room instead od unpacking and changing clothes? It was only after he thought he had his hemophobia in check that he decided not to stay with Edith for the night

    Well the whole Dr/Mr debate was certainly much ado about nothing. The bottom line was that Edith had a plan that Martin did not want to participate in...when he realized that all bets were off. No other rooms or other arrangements. "Maybe I just didn't want to be with you." is pretty clear. She sure didn't hear it.
  • NewParkNewPark Posts: 3,537
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    A surgeon does not have the title mister until he or she becomes a consultant. Wouldn't the receptionist more likely think he was a gynecologist as it was an obstetrical and gynecological meeting as Edith explained it

    Why didn't he return to the reception and ask for another room instead od unpacking and changing clothes? It was only after he thought he had his hemophobia in check that he decided not to stay with Edith for the night

    That's a great point, Bloodphobia. I think it gave him back a little sense that he didn't have to be led around by the nose. Also, there was that chambermaid's ponytail!
  • BloodphobiaBloodphobia Posts: 448
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    Edith was useful to him only to help manage the blood phobia. She made him address the issue When he thought the phobia was in hand after treating the kitchen worker, her use to him was over. He returned to Portwenn to pack for his return to surgery in London. He didn't need sex with Edith, he was going to be a surgeon again at the consultant level. The ponytail reminded him of Louisa, but it did not prevent him from leaving her in Portwenn
  • NewParkNewPark Posts: 3,537
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    Edith was useful to him only to help manage the blood phobia. She made him address the issue When he thought the phobia was in hand after treating the kitchen worker, her use to him was over. He returned to Portwenn to pack for his return to surgery in London. He didn't need sex with Edith, he was going to be a surgeon again at the consultant level. The ponytail reminded him of Louisa, but it did not prevent him from leaving her in Portwenn

    Do you think he was that calculating in his attitude toward Edith? I thought he quite liked her and enjoyed their bantering, professional relationship as well, and, as nothing better was apparently on offer, might have been prepared to get in a little deeper with her (insofar as he wasn't completely oblivious to her designs on him, up to the time she opened the hotel room door).

    The ponytail reminded him that he loved Louisa and didn't want to go through the motions with anyone else -- but nothing was likely to change his assumption that she didn't want him and would reject him if he pressed, especially at this late date, for them to be together in some fashion. I think he chose to continue packing to leave, albeit sadly (as the sad version of the Martin and Louisa theme played) because he really saw no alternative now. Also, of course, surgery beckoned.

    Ironically, it was evident in the scene on the school ground, as he said good-bye to Louisa, that she was waiting/hoping for some indication that he wanted things to be different between them.
  • dcdmfandcdmfan Posts: 1,540
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    No one threw Martin on the rubbish pile of London medicine. It seems he elected not to treat his blood phobia then just as he elected not to treat his depression until Aunt Ruth told him he had a problem and Louisa left him again.

    Even at 50 he could probably get through enough therapy and retraining to return to surgery by 50 or 51. But many surgical careers end at 60. He could then teach into emeritus status. So maybe his surgical career doesn't have to be over, but I do not believe he will return to it

    It seems like the majority of people on this forum want to blame Louisa for the Doc's problems. It is funny because when Series 6 first aired the tone on here was different in the way people looked at the show. It was refreshing from what has been happening over the last few years. I don't know why this phenomenon exists, but it is tiresome. I am so addicted to this show that I continue reading it but each time I read it seems like the discussion has creeped into that again. Thanks for your comments. I don't understand the logic of disliking a major character who is supposed to be the savior of the main character. My New Year's resolution is to stop reading this forum no more than one time per month. I hope I can keep it.

    Nobody put a gun to his head to stay in Port Wenn. If surgery were so important to him he could have set that as a parameter of his relationship with Louisa. If she couldn't accept that it is incumbent upon her to find a way to make it work or not. She set her parameter that she wants to stay in Port Wenn. He was free to accept that or move on. He decided to stay. His son was more important than moving to London. It is his choice and his responsibility to deal with his "shut down" problems. That is what I believe. If he had a drinking problem none of us would criticize her for leaving. There is plenty of help in this world and he sends his patients for psych consults. I don't think anyone is keeping him in Port Wenn. It is his choice to stay and has been since he first arrived there. He is not helpless he can leave at anytime. That is why the humor is that the villagers keep forcing him to stay through circumstance but it has nothing to do with Louisa. They keep him there in order for fate to always bring him back to Louisa.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 323
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    Mofromco wrote: »
    Well the whole Dr/Mr debate was certainly much ado about nothing. The bottom line was that Edith had a plan that Martin did not want to participate in...when he realized that all bets were off. No other rooms or other arrangements. "Maybe I just didn't want to be with you." is pretty clear. She sure didn't hear it.

    I think the Dr/Mr references provide some underlying basis as to the Martin and Louisa pairing within that particular storyline trail. Louisa only knows Martin as a GP and has a great deal of respect for him. While all of Martin's professional colleagues see it as a downgrade from surgeon to physician, Louisa has always had respect for Martin as a talented physician. Edith only had something for him when he had a title and talent. I would like to believe that Louisa sees much more in Martin beyond the title and profession.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 323
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    dcdmfan wrote: »
    It seems like the majority of people on this forum want to blame Louisa for the Doc's problems. It is funny because when Series 6 first aired the tone on here was different in the way people looked at the show. It was refreshing from what has been happening over the last few years. I don't know why this phenomenon exists, but it is tiresome. I am so addicted to this show that I continue reading it but each time I read it seems like the discussion has creeped into that again. Thanks for your comments. I don't understand the logic of disliking a major character who is supposed to be the savior of the main character. My New Year's resolution is to stop reading this forum no more than one time per month. I hope I can keep it.

    Nobody put a gun to his head to stay in Port Wenn. If surgery were so important to him he could have set that as a parameter of his relationship with Louisa. If she couldn't accept that it is incumbent upon her to find a way to make it work or not. She set her parameter that she wants to stay in Port Wenn. He was free to accept that or move on. He decided to stay. His son was more important than moving to London. It is his choice and his responsibility to deal with his "shut down" problems. That is what I believe. If he had a drinking problem none of us would criticize her for leaving. There is plenty of help in this world and he sends his patients for psych consults. I don't think anyone is keeping him in Port Wenn. It is his choice to stay and has been since he first arrived there. He is not helpless he can leave at anytime. That is why the humor is that the villagers keep forcing him to stay through circumstance but it has nothing to do with Louisa. They keep him there in order for fate to always bring him back to Louisa.

    I'm with you, I don't think Louisa is to blame for the way things are. They are the way they are for a multitude of reasons.
  • SusieSagitariusSusieSagitarius Posts: 1,250
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    dcdmfan wrote: »
    It seems like the majority of people on this forum want to blame Louisa for the Doc's problems. It is funny because when Series 6 first aired the tone on here was different in the way people looked at the show. It was refreshing from what has been happening over the last few years. I don't know why this phenomenon exists, but it is tiresome. I am so addicted to this show that I continue reading it but each time I read it seems like the discussion has creeped into that again. Thanks for your comments. I don't understand the logic of disliking a major character who is supposed to be the savior of the main character. My New Year's resolution is to stop reading this forum no more than one time per month. I hope I can keep it.

    Nobody put a gun to his head to stay in Port Wenn. If surgery were so important to him he could have set that as a parameter of his relationship with Louisa. If she couldn't accept that it is incumbent upon her to find a way to make it work or not. She set her parameter that she wants to stay in Port Wenn. He was free to accept that or move on. He decided to stay. His son was more important than moving to London. It is his choice and his responsibility to deal with his "shut down" problems. That is what I believe. If he had a drinking problem none of us would criticize her for leaving. There is plenty of help in this world and he sends his patients for psych consults. I don't think anyone is keeping him in Port Wenn. It is his choice to stay and has been since he first arrived there. He is not helpless he can leave at anytime. That is why the humor is that the villagers keep forcing him to stay through circumstance but it has nothing to do with Louisa. They keep him there in order for fate to always bring him back to Louisa.

    dcdmfan, I can only speak for myself here--don't know if I belong to the "majority".
    What I see is: I don't "blame" Louisa for Doc's problems--he has his, as she has hers. And it is the intersection where they meet that produces the drama and conflict. She unknowingly exacerbates his issues and he hers. Or shall I just say they unwittingly push each other's buttons. Or simply fail to communicate effectively. I don't let him off the hook for not dealing with his issues, but I don't let her off either. They are both educated people who have every reason to know there is help for their issues, especially due to their professions.

    I do think that at times, talking about specific situations here, I may sound on one side or the other. And then I am, in that situation, especially now (S6) that they should know each other better (but clearly not yet well enough!) Overall though, part of the interest of this show is the floundering of two professionals, who at core, are just fallible humans
    like me! :)
  • NewParkNewPark Posts: 3,537
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    dcdmfan wrote: »
    It seems like the majority of people on this forum want to blame Louisa for the Doc's problems. It is funny because when Series 6 first aired the tone on here was different in the way people looked at the show. It was refreshing from what has been happening over the last few years. I don't know why this phenomenon exists, but it is tiresome. I am so addicted to this show that I continue reading it but each time I read it seems like the discussion has creeped into that again. Thanks for your comments. I don't understand the logic of disliking a major character who is supposed to be the savior of the main character. My New Year's resolution is to stop reading this forum no more than one time per month. I hope I can keep it.

    Nobody put a gun to his head to stay in Port Wenn. If surgery were so important to him he could have set that as a parameter of his relationship with Louisa. If she couldn't accept that it is incumbent upon her to find a way to make it work or not. She set her parameter that she wants to stay in Port Wenn. He was free to accept that or move on. He decided to stay. His son was more important than moving to London. It is his choice and his responsibility to deal with his "shut down" problems. That is what I believe. If he had a drinking problem none of us would criticize her for leaving. There is plenty of help in this world and he sends his patients for psych consults. I don't think anyone is keeping him in Port Wenn. It is his choice to stay and has been since he first arrived there. He is not helpless he can leave at anytime. That is why the humor is that the villagers keep forcing him to stay through circumstance but it has nothing to do with Louisa. They keep him there in order for fate to always bring him back to Louisa.

    That's an extremely good point, dcmcfan, one that I'll have to think about a bit.

    He's mired in some kind of dysfunctional mental state, which he refuses to acknowledge, discuss, or treat. It's damaging to him and makes others around him unhappy, and now his outrageous behavior has contributed to putting his wife in jeopardy. By sticking around, Louisa could even be said to be enabling him to keep denying his obvious need for some kind of treatment. So it's a pretty good analogy with the wife of an addict, so far.

    But I'll think about it some more.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 323
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    dcdmfan, I can only speak for myself here--don't know if I belong to the "majority".
    What I see is: I don't "blame" Louisa for Doc's problems--he has his, as she has hers. And it is the intersection where they meet that produces the drama and conflict. She unknowingly exacerbates his issues and he hers. Or shall I just say they unwittingly push each other's buttons. Or simply fail to communicate effectively. I don't let him off the hook for not dealing with his issues, but I don't let her off either. They are both educated people who have every reason to know there is help for their issues, especially due to their professions.

    I do think that at times, talking about specific situations here, I may sound on one side or the other. And then I am, in that situation, especially now (S6) that they should know each other better (but clearly not yet well enough!) Overall though, part of the interest of this show is the floundering of two professionals, who at core, are just fallible humans
    like me! :)

    Nice way to express it. I don't think we'd have the show we have without the push/pull. The writers and producers have already exhausted the will they/won't they get together. They've now written our characters into a relationship that requires a totally different level of behavior and communication.
  • ZarwenZarwen Posts: 249
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    Lizzie_cUS wrote: »
    Nice way to express it. I don't think we'd have the show we have without the push/pull. The writers and producers have already exhausted the will they/won't they get together. They've now written our characters into a relationship that requires a totally different level of behavior and communication.

    I thought they exhausted it in S4 & 5. That is why I am not very optimistic about S7. :(
  • SusieSagitariusSusieSagitarius Posts: 1,250
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    Portland, Oregon Doc Martin Meetup – Dec. 14, 2013....................Report

    I've been forgetting to post about our last meetup and the Fountain Valley one has kicked my brain into gear. …..........Connie, Mary, Judy, and Janet celebrated a belated Martin Clunes birthday along with an upcoming Mary and Janet's birthday at O'Connor's in Multnomah Village neighborhood. Mary brought the birthday hats, Judy brought a volume of her MC stuff which once again we failed to have time to look at due to the non-stop flow of talk, Connie added her MC maven knowledge, and Janet brought a special surprise “pud” as Bert would say, one that was decorated so we could all “eat him with a spoon”. Good time had by all! (Pictures posted on FB.)

    Next meetup (formal announcement later): Jan. 11, 2014.
  • SusieSagitariusSusieSagitarius Posts: 1,250
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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 594
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    Edith was useful to him only to help manage the blood phobia. She made him address the issue When he thought the phobia was in hand after treating the kitchen worker, her use to him was over. He returned to Portwenn to pack for his return to surgery in London. He didn't need sex with Edith, he was going to be a surgeon again at the consultant level. The ponytail reminded him of Louisa, but it did not prevent him from leaving her in Portwenn

    Martin had NO idea that Edith had designs on his manhood. The kiss in the car from her surprised him but he let it pass. The hotel gambit, he did not see that coming. When she opened the hotel room door and he realised what was going on that was his first chance to bolt. But... he hesitated and stayed... and only when he glimpsed the dark ponytail of the maid did he get enough gumption to leave.
  • MofromcoMofromco Posts: 1,339
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    robspace54 wrote: »
    Martin had NO idea that Edith had designs on his manhood. The kiss in the car from her surprised him but he let it pass. The hotel gambit, he did not see that coming. When she opened the hotel room door and he realised what was going on that was his first chance to bolt. But... he hesitated and stayed... and only when he glimpsed the dark ponytail of the maid did he get enough gumption to leave.

    I agree Rob, he was clueless. He didn't bolt at first because sometimes we are so shocked when something happens that it takes a while to process things and then give the appropriate response. It still evades me how he could have written such beautiful poetry for such a cold person. Maybe in S7 poetry will reappear?
  • BloodphobiaBloodphobia Posts: 448
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    dcdmfan wrote: »
    It seems like the majority of people on this forum want to blame Louisa for the Doc's problems. It is funny because when Series 6 first aired the tone on here was different in the way people looked at the show. It was refreshing from what has been happening over the last few years. I don't know why this phenomenon exists, but it is tiresome. I am so addicted to this show that I continue reading it but each time I read it seems like the discussion has creeped into that again. Thanks for your comments. I don't understand the logic of disliking a major character who is supposed to be the savior of the main character. My New Year's resolution is to stop reading this forum no more than one time per month. I hope I can keep it.

    Nobody put a gun to his head to stay in Port Wenn. If surgery were so important to him he could have set that as a parameter of his relationship with Louisa. If she couldn't accept that it is incumbent upon her to find a way to make it work or not. She set her parameter that she wants to stay in Port Wenn. He was free to accept that or move on. He decided to stay. His son was more important than moving to London. It is his choice and his responsibility to deal with his "shut down" problems. That is what I believe. If he had a drinking problem none of us would criticize her for leaving. There is plenty of help in this world and he sends his patients for psych consults. I don't think anyone is keeping him in Port Wenn. It is his choice to stay and has been since he first arrived there. He is not helpless he can leave at anytime. That is why the humor is that the villagers keep forcing him to stay through circumstance but it has nothing to do with Louisa. They keep him there in order for fate to always bring him back to Louisa.

    Then I am really in the minority. I want to blame the doc for his problems. He didn't try to do anything about managing a fairly straightforward phobia until Louisa left Portwenn and he was stuck in the village without her. His ticket out was treating the phobia. He was too stubborn to deal with the young psychologist (the writers pulled out that canard again with the young surgeon who wasn't good enough to manage Louisas surgery). He decided on the DYI approach to managing his phobia (just as he decided to fruitlessly self diagnose in Series6). Edith helped to some extent and he was able to control his reaction to blood slightly better.

    Your analogy of an addict is good bhe sought treatment for other problems but not the one needing the most attention

    In S 6 his symptoms of depression were clear, despite the DSM. He ignored Louisa and only ran to Aunt Ruth when Louisa ran away. With all of this, it makes great drama and that is why I like s6 so much.
  • BloodphobiaBloodphobia Posts: 448
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    robspace54 wrote: »
    Martin had NO idea that Edith had designs on his manhood. The kiss in the car from her surprised him but he let it pass. The hotel gambit, he did not see that coming. When she opened the hotel room door and he realised what was going on that was his first chance to bolt. But... he hesitated and stayed... and only when he glimpsed the dark ponytail of the maid did he get enough gumption to leave.

    So seeing the ponytail sent him back to Portwenn and into the arms of Louisa?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 323
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    So seeing the ponytail sent him back to Portwenn and into the arms of Louisa?

    The ponytail wasn't what sent him back to Portwenn, but it was a representation of or subconscious reminder of the person who really had his heart and it wasn't Edith.
  • MofromcoMofromco Posts: 1,339
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    Lizzie_cUS wrote: »
    The ponytail wasn't what sent him back to Portwenn, but it was a representation of or subconscious reminder of the person who really had his heart and it wasn't Edith.

    I'll have to look again, and I've watched several times and did not notice if he looked at the maid or they focused on the maid's ponytail long enough to make it more than coincidence. Of course, it makes sense. It just didn't stick out as say, picking up the frog from the stairs. Will check again and acknowledge that it makes sense...just like crashing into the classroom of the teacher with the ponytail in Port Wenn.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 323
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    Mofromco wrote: »
    I'll have to look again, and I've watched several times and did not notice if he looked at the maid or they focused on the maid's ponytail long enough to make it more than coincidence. Of course, it makes sense. It just didn't stick out as say, picking up the frog from the stairs. Will check again and acknowledge that it makes sense...just like crashing into the classroom of the teacher with the ponytail in Port Wenn.

    The subtle details throughout give us indications of an underlying feeling or underlying issue. Minor things that provide reminders or indicate something much deeper than at the surface.
  • NewParkNewPark Posts: 3,537
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    Lizzie_cUS wrote: »
    The subtle details throughout give us indications of an underlying feeling or underlying issue. Minor things that provide reminders or indicate something much deeper than at the surface.

    Martin Clunes has spoken so often on the great care with which the scripts are written to get it right. They are written and re-written. So my guiding theory is that each line of dialogue, or bit of production design, is meant to move the story along somehow and has been carefully considered (leaving aside crew pranks like littering the set with onions). So, dark brown pony-tail swish in front of Martin -- not a coincidence. Watch his expression when he sees it -- he stops in his tracks and does his usual "gulp" -- his "tell" of strong emotion. He is not a man who can love one woman deeply and have casual sex with someone else. That's what came home to him at that moment.
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