Jean-Francois, If I were in your shoes, (after their May visit) I'd just tell them it is not convenient every time they ask. Offer no further explanation, just repeat that it is not convenient if they question you.
I would enjoy their company, and the nice lavish meal out. Putting up friends costs nothing and should be a pleasure!
Yes it does cost and it's only a pleasure if one enjoys doing it. (Says the b&b owner who does enjoy having guests even if they're friends and not paying).
The really considerate guest doesn't take the host out for the meal but gets a (very generous!) voucher or credit note from the restaurant and leaves the hosts to enjoy the evening when they choose and by themselves.
Say No now, rather than after the May visit, firmly and without excuses or explanations. You have already shown them enough hospitality. Don't get drawn into suggesting alternative arrangements. Imbalanced distribution of benefit or non-reciprocation often fails with weak ties.
But as for disparaging remarks about France / the French... plenty of French make disparaging remarks about British people (or any other nationality that isn't French ) so I don't think you should let that affect you.
I take your point Normandie, vous avez raison, BUT, it is one thing for Benoît to say to Thierry, in le Bistrot du Boucher, "Les anglais puent", ou "Je n'aime pas les rosbifs" or for Bob to say to Bill in the George and Dragon, "Poxy French, all the same, w***ers."
It is a bit different when you were born in Lens, Pas de Calais, but have lived in the U.K. for many years, to hear les français insulted by an Englishman who has probably never been closer to La République than Dover.
The problem is, Jean-Francois, that this thread has reached #57 posts, without you asking a single question. Not one. I reckon you've already decided what you want to do, and are just seeking affirmation.
The problem is, Jean-Francois, that this thread has reached #57 posts, without you asking a single question. Not one. I reckon you've already decided what you want to do, and are just seeking affirmation.
You are bang on the money Mum, I have decided on a course of action.
I guess that my thread title was asking this very question in a way.
I know what to do and I'm going to do it, any suggestions for a painless way?
The majority of replies have confirmed that the course i've chosen is the right one.
Thanks to all who took the time to contribute, save for the baiters.
I have no helpful advice to offer (apart from those who have suggested you just say in future 'it's not convenient' , with no further explanation necessary) - but having read the entire thread I'd just lke to say, Jean-Francois, you are a total gent. Tu es vraiment gentil :)Add my congratulations to those above for not rising to the baiters.
Twelve days is a long time to park yourself on someone uninvited! If it was one or two nights I can't see the problem but twelve days is a long time. Best just to tell them that you don't mind short stays but this is too long and would interfere with your normal routine.
I can see the problem, its not so much them staying but how you can say no.
I think that if you had them over once and then no more it would be fine, but beause theyve stayed several times they are probably oblivious to the problems it causes! The more times you agree the harder it is to say no.
Do you always know in advance how long they are staying or do they spring it on you? Also do you and your wife work? If you do maybe you could put them off by being busy at work and not having time to socialise with them in the evenings. If you dont work then its harder to make an excuse.
I can see the problem, its not so much them staying but how you can say no.
I think that if you had them over once and then no more it would be fine, but beause theyve stayed several times they are probably oblivious to the problems it causes! The more times you agree the harder it is to say no.
Do you always know in advance how long they are staying or do they spring it on you? Also do you and your wife work? If you do maybe you could put them off by being busy at work and not having time to socialise with them in the evenings. If you dont work then its harder to make an excuse.
You summed it up in your first line.
I've told my wife that I'm quite prepared to apply diplomacy and tact, and gradually let them see that the good times are at an end, but she's really reticent about upsetting anyone.
We do know in advance, Anne will send a cheery email saying for example that they need to sort something out with the tenant of their house in London, so can you help us with somewhere to lay our heads while we're there.
She has in the past, while they've been here, also said, "My brother/son/cousin is getting engaged/christened/having a 40th. in a couple of months time so we'd like to come back over again, is that okay?
Back to the hand wringing about upsetting them.
My wife works part time, I've retired now, but to be honest, we don't socialise with them when they're here, save for the evening when Steve springs for dinner.
I have a plan, it will work, although my wife, as much as she says "I know you're right", is not looking forward to its implementation.
I think you are helping them enormously by hosting them and facilitating their trips home to deal with family, tenants etc. To you - and to me - the number of trips and length of stay seem excessive. For their part, they may be happily thinking that you are simply good, cordial friends and be totally unaware that they are imposing more on the friendship than it can bear. It is painfully difficult to say no within the context of friendship, and may mean the loss of goodwill and friendship as the price of reclaiming your peace and privacy. But it must be done because you cannot bear such frequent and lengthy visits.
Maybe it's best next time to reply simply expressing regret that it's not convenient for yourself and your wife - and leave it that. Say no more. Let it dawn on them that it's not something they can take for granted. They might then realise how demanding they have been and look for other solutions. Maybe one of their family will hit on the idea of putting them up on the sofa or a temporary bed for a few nights now and again. Many families manage to do just that.
We are acquainted with a couple, who while not being exactly our bosom buddies, we've know for quite some time.
Over the years we've met up perhaps twice annually, BBQs, mutual friends get togethers, that kind of thing.
Some time ago they bought an apartment in Greece, and moved there permanently, using the rental of their house in London to pay the mortgage on the place in Greece.
Toward the end of 2013 they emailed a request to crash at our place while they came over for a family occasion.
They couldn't use their London place, it had tenants, and for various reasons, staying with their respective families was a non-starter.
Naturally we agreed, we have a three bedroom house, two of the bedrooms being en-suite.
They came over, and while here took us out to dinner at a very good restaurant as a thank you.
Since then, they have come back two more times, always with a plausible reason that there was no alternative place for them to stay while here, and again, asking us to nominate any restaurant, and they'd take us there and pick up the tab.
Today another email arrived, the husband has a golfing week arranged in Morocco, and they want to stay a few days with us until he goes, then they'll return to Greece when he gets back to London.
Personally I've had enough and want to say no, but my wife worked with Anne when they were younger, and she is more of a softie than I am.
She has prevailed upon me to say yes one more time, but to pull up the drawbridge after that if I really wish to.
My first idea is to politely decline the free dinner out offer, to plant the seed as it were, but I'm unsure how to best do it diplomatically.
I've already told my wife that, offend or please, if they ask if we'd rather not have them over in future I'm going to tell them that they're right, as gently as I can.
After years of it being just us two in the house, where if I woke up and fancied some orange juice I'd wander down in a pair of boxers, now I feel that I have to brush my hair and wash the sleep out of my eyes in case someone is in the kitchen, the house is not your own it feels.
Jean Francois ....i'd just be saying no.
I hope your post is genuine....surely as you are writing this you know what is wrong and you don't need a chatroom to verify the obvious.
Fair play we have a bloody miserable bunch in this country.
Yes your home is your castle, but its not normal to not want people to visit.
Sounds like OP isnt used to any visitors!
There's no right or wrong - unless there's some kind of rulebook of life I'm unaware of.
It doesn't really matter what anyone else thinks the OP should want to do. The only relevant opinion on whether the OP should want or allow people to stay at his house is the OP, and his wife - regardless of how long the guests are planning to stay. It's their house.
The OP didn't ask for opinions on whether people agree with his viewpoint. I'm sure he's capable of making his own mind up. He asked for advice on how to diplomatically tell the people they can't keep staying.
As to it being not "normal" to want people to visit, is everything you do or think "normal" Steve? Do you not do anything, or have any opinions, that are a bit different to the majority?
OP, if I were you, I would just say it's not convenient, and keep saying that whenever they ask if they can stay. No excuses or reasons need to be given. They will stop taking it for granted that you will always be able to accommodate them whenever they want. They will get more used to having to make their own arrangements, and not be so reliant. If you don't want to burn bridges, I would wean them off gradually by perhaps saying you can't do between [ date] and [ date ] but invite them over for a couple of days at the end of their stay.
Feeding people for 12 days can cost quite a lot, not to mention extra use of gas, electricity etc. Personally it would be my worst nightmare and I'd probably resort to putting itching powder in their bed!
Best idea yet
I must say, I don't get the posts asking what the problem is and that they wouldn't mind it. The point is the OP does mind.
I don't think making excuses would work because it wouldn't deter them and it may also just get you into a mess of lies. Unfortunately I think honesty is the best policy. Maybe saying that you have both enjoyed their company but you wont be able to accommodate them in the future. You don't need to go in to any more detail than that.
What ever you decide OP, good luck with it and fwiw I think you've been more than patient with them.
ETA: OP, I see you already have a cunning plan It'd be interesting (ok, I'm nosey) if you could let us know if it works.
Some years ago we had a similar problem - we called them the 'Friendly Pirates'. We ended their annual 'raids' by simply saying (as other FMs have suggested) that it wasn't convenient, without giving any further explanation, It worked like a dream - and they found an alternative.
I do understand your dilemma, Jean-Francois, but as they are clearly long-standing friends, can you really not simply say something along the lines of 'We love having you to stay once in a while, but we also have other commitments and it's not feasible for us to put you up every time you come over. We'd be happy to help you find somewhere else to stay on those occasions when we can't have you over'? I think friends should be honest with each other. If I was in their situation, I would much rather be politely told that I was being a bit of a nuisance, rather than be lied to and complained about behind my back.
I do understand your dilemma, Jean-Francois, but as they are clearly long-standing friends, can you really not simply say something along the lines of 'We love having you to stay once in a while, but we also have other commitments and it's not feasible for us to put you up every time you come over. We'd be happy to help you find somewhere else to stay on those occasions when we can't have you over'? I think friends should be honest with each other. If I was in their situation, I would much rather be politely told that I was being a bit of a nuisance, rather than be lied to and complained about behind my back.
I take your point Jules, but first of all, they don't really come into the category of "long standing friends."
Anne is an acquaintance of one of my wife's long standing friends, and in that capacity, they, by extension, became acquaintances of ours.
Second of all, I won't lie to them, I agree that being up front in this matter is better than lying.
It comes down to gauging the right amount of emphasis when you give them the news that they won't want to hear.
Sugar coat it and they may think that they can win you over because you don't seem too determined, use phraseology that leaves them in doubt how things are going to go down and you may unnecessarily alienate them.
That's the rub, I couldn't care less if they feel alienated, the more alienated that they feel, the less likely that they'll ask again, my wife however, is very apprehensive of being seen by Anne as the wicked witch of the East (end.)
Jean Francois ....i'd just be saying no.
I hope your post is genuine....surely as you are writing this you know what is wrong and you don't need a chatroom to verify the obvious.
Not sure how to take this Tink, I'm assuming that you mean you'd say no to them coming.
You hope my post is genuine?
Are you seriously suggesting that while at a loose end one day I invented this scenario??
Yes, I know what's wrong, and how to right it, I was seeking suggestions as to how best to do it with a velvet hammer, as opposed to a steel one.
Comments
You clearly have not read the entire thread.
It's your house.
The really considerate guest doesn't take the host out for the meal but gets a (very generous!) voucher or credit note from the restaurant and leaves the hosts to enjoy the evening when they choose and by themselves.
Or they're baiting you. Congratulations on not rising to it.
I take your point Normandie, vous avez raison, BUT, it is one thing for Benoît to say to Thierry, in le Bistrot du Boucher, "Les anglais puent", ou "Je n'aime pas les rosbifs" or for Bob to say to Bill in the George and Dragon, "Poxy French, all the same, w***ers."
It is a bit different when you were born in Lens, Pas de Calais, but have lived in the U.K. for many years, to hear les français insulted by an Englishman who has probably never been closer to La République than Dover.
You are bang on the money Mum, I have decided on a course of action.
I guess that my thread title was asking this very question in a way.
I know what to do and I'm going to do it, any suggestions for a painless way?
The majority of replies have confirmed that the course i've chosen is the right one.
Thanks to all who took the time to contribute, save for the baiters.
I think that if you had them over once and then no more it would be fine, but beause theyve stayed several times they are probably oblivious to the problems it causes! The more times you agree the harder it is to say no.
Do you always know in advance how long they are staying or do they spring it on you? Also do you and your wife work? If you do maybe you could put them off by being busy at work and not having time to socialise with them in the evenings. If you dont work then its harder to make an excuse.
You summed it up in your first line.
I've told my wife that I'm quite prepared to apply diplomacy and tact, and gradually let them see that the good times are at an end, but she's really reticent about upsetting anyone.
We do know in advance, Anne will send a cheery email saying for example that they need to sort something out with the tenant of their house in London, so can you help us with somewhere to lay our heads while we're there.
She has in the past, while they've been here, also said, "My brother/son/cousin is getting engaged/christened/having a 40th. in a couple of months time so we'd like to come back over again, is that okay?
Back to the hand wringing about upsetting them.
My wife works part time, I've retired now, but to be honest, we don't socialise with them when they're here, save for the evening when Steve springs for dinner.
I have a plan, it will work, although my wife, as much as she says "I know you're right", is not looking forward to its implementation.
La gentillesse est une faiblesse, quand on la donne à ceux qui ne la méritent pas.
Maybe it's best next time to reply simply expressing regret that it's not convenient for yourself and your wife - and leave it that. Say no more. Let it dawn on them that it's not something they can take for granted. They might then realise how demanding they have been and look for other solutions. Maybe one of their family will hit on the idea of putting them up on the sofa or a temporary bed for a few nights now and again. Many families manage to do just that.
Jean Francois ....i'd just be saying no.
I hope your post is genuine....surely as you are writing this you know what is wrong and you don't need a chatroom to verify the obvious.
There's no right or wrong - unless there's some kind of rulebook of life I'm unaware of.
It doesn't really matter what anyone else thinks the OP should want to do. The only relevant opinion on whether the OP should want or allow people to stay at his house is the OP, and his wife - regardless of how long the guests are planning to stay. It's their house.
The OP didn't ask for opinions on whether people agree with his viewpoint. I'm sure he's capable of making his own mind up. He asked for advice on how to diplomatically tell the people they can't keep staying.
As to it being not "normal" to want people to visit, is everything you do or think "normal" Steve? Do you not do anything, or have any opinions, that are a bit different to the majority?
OP, if I were you, I would just say it's not convenient, and keep saying that whenever they ask if they can stay. No excuses or reasons need to be given. They will stop taking it for granted that you will always be able to accommodate them whenever they want. They will get more used to having to make their own arrangements, and not be so reliant. If you don't want to burn bridges, I would wean them off gradually by perhaps saying you can't do between [ date] and [ date ] but invite them over for a couple of days at the end of their stay.
Best idea yet
I must say, I don't get the posts asking what the problem is and that they wouldn't mind it. The point is the OP does mind.
I don't think making excuses would work because it wouldn't deter them and it may also just get you into a mess of lies. Unfortunately I think honesty is the best policy. Maybe saying that you have both enjoyed their company but you wont be able to accommodate them in the future. You don't need to go in to any more detail than that.
What ever you decide OP, good luck with it and fwiw I think you've been more than patient with them.
ETA: OP, I see you already have a cunning plan
Tu a raison Maman de trois, très profond, mais très vrai.
throw oeufs at them
no need to be offensive, I think - you might want the relationship at some point in the future. you never know.
and maybe they think you value and enjoy your time with them.
I take your point Jules, but first of all, they don't really come into the category of "long standing friends."
Anne is an acquaintance of one of my wife's long standing friends, and in that capacity, they, by extension, became acquaintances of ours.
Second of all, I won't lie to them, I agree that being up front in this matter is better than lying.
It comes down to gauging the right amount of emphasis when you give them the news that they won't want to hear.
Sugar coat it and they may think that they can win you over because you don't seem too determined, use phraseology that leaves them in doubt how things are going to go down and you may unnecessarily alienate them.
That's the rub, I couldn't care less if they feel alienated, the more alienated that they feel, the less likely that they'll ask again, my wife however, is very apprehensive of being seen by Anne as the wicked witch of the East (end.)
Not sure how to take this Tink, I'm assuming that you mean you'd say no to them coming.
You hope my post is genuine?
Are you seriously suggesting that while at a loose end one day I invented this scenario??
Yes, I know what's wrong, and how to right it, I was seeking suggestions as to how best to do it with a velvet hammer, as opposed to a steel one.