Are you claiming the pedophillia is no different to being gay?
In what sense? Morally they are obviously not the same but paedophillia (as I understand it) is an unchosen sexual preference of which there are many (which I listed) including homosexuality.
I don't believe paedophiles can 'help' who they are sexually attracted to anymore than a gay, straight or bi-sexual person can though.
There were tests done to see which part of the brain is stimulated when sexually aroused, a different area is stimulated in paedophiles, which leads many to think that their brains are just 'wired' differently.
This article below goes further and suggests that there is a lack of 'white matter' in the brain of a paedophile.
If you are of agreement that would show that homosexual and heterosexual sexual arousal are linked and similar, and paedophilia is totally separate from either.
Isn't the issue here whether it is a crime to be a pedophile per se?
If you can be a law abiding pedophile then it is seems sensible to regard pedophilia as a mental health issue.
The alternative is to only label someone a pedophile after they have offended. That seems dangerous - surely we would be better to know about them before they offend so we can assess how much of a risk they are?
Paedophilia by definition is the sexual attraction to pre-pubescent people.
Where in that definition does it describe them being attracted to the suffering of the children?
Dictionary definitions and societies definitions are in some peoples eyes are clearly different things. Why get hung up on the semantics of what a word means?
I think they know it's wrong, they just can't help themselves acting upon it, which in my mind leads me to believe they have a mental illness.
It must be hard for them, knowing its wrong, yet to them it feels good.
Society is ever changing, but I doubt that paedophilia would ever become legal as it involves people who cannot give consent until they are of adult age, which then is not an attraction for a paedophile.
I would imagine living as a paedophile in this society is very similar to how a homosexual lived in our society before homosexuality became legal. So they either resigned themselves to a life alone and got on with their life without sexual contact, while others formed secret groups and acted out their sexual desires in private.
For someone who's supposed to be 'academic', this is an incredibly thick statement.
Was there really any need to be so rude? Paedophilia is a very emotive topic for some, just because you maybe able understand the mentality of paedophiles, doesn't mean everyone else can.
Was there really any need to be so rude? Paedophilia is a very emotive topic for some, just because you maybe able understand the mentality of paedophiles, doesn't mean everyone else can.
Then the OP should never have given the opinion that they know exactly why the pedo does what they do.
It's a very complicated issue but of course, the OP later stated, they were speaking of pedos that act on their urges, not someone who is in a closet, not acting.
Society says its wrong... laws and values created by ourselves say it is wrong, animals do not have an age of consent. Children (as has been stated) do not necessarily intrinsically know it is wrong until they are older and learn about our laws and values.
Personally I am glad we have created a moral code and a set of values that protects the vulnerable and those unable to consent but are paedophiles mentally ill? Not necessarily, in some cases they are just very unlucky to have been born finding their sexuality point towards children, the very people the moral code forbids them from going near (and thank the Lord it does).
We created laws and we are better for it but people who break these laws are not necessarily mentally ill.
If you are of agreement that would show that homosexual and heterosexual sexual arousal are linked and similar, and paedophilia is totally separate from either.
That article didn't actually mention homosexual and heterosexual sexual arousal at all. There is nothing in the article to specify if any of the three things are separate or similar to each other.
There is no such thing as mental illness. We all have different ideas about how the world should be and have different personalities and attractions. Pedophiles, lesbians, the woman who married the golden gate bridge, autistic people who have to sort things out over and over again or have a favourite toy they can't part with, men who like to race cars and put their lives in danger, OCD people who have to clean 50 times a day, having children out of wed lock, having 2 wives
Its just that society finds some of them more acceptable than others. Our man made moral standards have put everyone on a grand pedi stool forgetting that we are all animals at the end of the day. Science and biology is a fascinating thing.
Far less children would be abused if there was more training on the subject. Both victims and peado can lead fulfilling lives, and if they weren't in fear of the pitch fork brigade most peados would come forward for help. Its where do they start?
That article didn't actually mention homosexual and heterosexual sexual arousal at all. There is nothing in the article to specify if any of the three things are separate or similar to each other.
I never said there was. The article suggests a different 'wiring' for the brain of a paedophile. Previous posts on this thread were asking if they are mentally ill and if homosexuality was also a mental illness in that case. I was stating that there is a different 'wiring' of a paedophile's brain that is not found in heterosexuals or homosexuals and therefore heterosexual sexual arousal and homosexual sexual arousal must be similar and linked, since they have not got the different 'wiring' that a paedophile has.
I think they know it's wrong, they just can't help themselves acting upon it, which in my mind leads me to believe they have a mental illness.
It must be hard for them, knowing its wrong, yet to them it feels good.
That's the same as addiction which is classed as a mental illnessi in the DSM - which is the diagnostic manual for psychiatry.
However - I'm a qualified mental health nurse and have worked in the mental illness field for 26 years. I have worked with addicts but not paedophiles or other sex offenders.
My personal opinion is that none of them are mental illnesses.
My rationale is personal - I generally work with people with schizophrenia, schizoaffective disorder, bipolar illness, complicated/prolonged depression and some dual diagnosis.
All of these can be helped and in some cases all symptoms alleviated by medication (plus other supportive therapies)
I don't believe that paeodophiles and other sex offenders can be treated with medication - except the chemical castration route but this does not always remove the urge, just the ability to act on their impulses
Well it's not officially recognised as being a mental illness.
The legal age of 16 is a cultural decision by society- in japan the legal age of consent is 13. In christian europe it was normal to marry girls at young ages throughout history until fairly modern times, and in many muslim countries this is still the case. I dont think you can consider all of medieval europe, or modern day afganistan, as being mentally ill. It's just a cultural perception, an artificial construct, as to what age we believe is decent.
conversly, in some countries the age of consent is 18, and those countries probably view us as sick.
Personally i've never been attracted to anyone under 20, and i can't understand why other guys my age would like a girl younger.
There is no such thing as mental illness. We all have different ideas about how the world should be and have different personalities and attractions. Pedophiles, lesbians, the woman who married the golden gate bridge, autistic people who have to sort things out over and over again or have a favourite toy they can't part with, men who like to race cars and put their lives in danger, OCD people who have to clean 50 times a day, having children out of wed lock, having 2 wives
Its just that society finds some of them more acceptable than others. Our man made moral standards have put everyone on a grand pedi stool forgetting that we are all animals at the end of the day. Science and biology is a fascinating thing.
Far less children would be abused if there was more training on the subject. Both victims and peado can lead fulfilling lives, and if they weren't in fear of the pitch fork brigade most peados would come forward for help. Its where do they start?
Technically though - that alone would qualify them as a paedophile since the term is derived based on the attraction to children.
More precisely: pre-p ubescent children.
There's also 'Hebephilia' attraction to young pubescent children: 11-14.
and 'Ephebophilia': mid to late teens: 15-19 years old.
Although the term paedophilia does seem to be used for anyone who is attracted to or more pecisely is caught having some sexual relation with anyone under 16 years old these days.
Are they ill? For some I'd say they are 'wired differently' just like homosexual people are. and NO I'mnot saying gay people are paedophiles merely that like paedophiles they are not attracted to who they should be attracted to 'normally' i.e. people of the opposite sex' in the case of gay people and pre-pubscent children in the case of paedophiles.
For others it is a power thing rather than a sexual attraction thing..the sexual power buzz comes from having control of others and kids are easier to control...
It's a very complicated issue but of course, the OP later stated, they were speaking of pedos that act on their urges, not someone who is in a closet, not acting.
Oh I'm confused now then. The OP's chosen link doesn't match what they want to talk about
The disturbing yet unfortunately true fact is that paedophillia is not uncommon. There are thousands of paedophiles and they abound in lots of different communities. Why would nature do this? Why would it produce so many paedophiles? I cannot understand it.
Paedophilia by definition is the sexual attraction to pre-pubescent people.
Where in that definition does it describe them being attracted to the suffering of the children?
Because sex with children involves subjugation and pain. since children don't volunteer and don't like what's happening. Read up on it. Or betters still talk to abused children. Time to move away from dry dictionary definitions and examine reality.
People that have these feelings may be too scared to get help as anyone who is attracted to pre-pubescent boys/girls is imeadiatly seen as an awful person.
So they may bury the feelings which become out of control and then they may turn into actions.
Comments
In what sense? Morally they are obviously not the same but paedophillia (as I understand it) is an unchosen sexual preference of which there are many (which I listed) including homosexuality.
I don't believe paedophiles can 'help' who they are sexually attracted to anymore than a gay, straight or bi-sexual person can though.
How do you know?
Paedophilia by definition is the sexual attraction to pre-pubescent people.
Where in that definition does it describe them being attracted to the suffering of the children?
This article below goes further and suggests that there is a lack of 'white matter' in the brain of a paedophile.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7116506.stm
If you are of agreement that would show that homosexual and heterosexual sexual arousal are linked and similar, and paedophilia is totally separate from either.
If you can be a law abiding pedophile then it is seems sensible to regard pedophilia as a mental health issue.
The alternative is to only label someone a pedophile after they have offended. That seems dangerous - surely we would be better to know about them before they offend so we can assess how much of a risk they are?
For someone who's supposed to be 'academic', this is an incredibly thick statement.
Dictionary definitions and societies definitions are in some peoples eyes are clearly different things. Why get hung up on the semantics of what a word means?
Society is ever changing, but I doubt that paedophilia would ever become legal as it involves people who cannot give consent until they are of adult age, which then is not an attraction for a paedophile.
I would imagine living as a paedophile in this society is very similar to how a homosexual lived in our society before homosexuality became legal. So they either resigned themselves to a life alone and got on with their life without sexual contact, while others formed secret groups and acted out their sexual desires in private.
Was there really any need to be so rude? Paedophilia is a very emotive topic for some, just because you maybe able understand the mentality of paedophiles, doesn't mean everyone else can.
You do realise that not every or even nearly every child suffers, most do not suffer until years later when they realise its wrong.
Its all very complex. for both the abuser and the abused in most cases
Then the OP should never have given the opinion that they know exactly why the pedo does what they do.
I don't know how you came across that.
It is an extremist right-wing Christian political site.
I wouldn't trust anything I read on there.
Here is one site which mentions it.
http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/1990.html
Also have a look at:
http://www.renewamerica.com/what_can_i_do.htm
Personally I am glad we have created a moral code and a set of values that protects the vulnerable and those unable to consent but are paedophiles mentally ill? Not necessarily, in some cases they are just very unlucky to have been born finding their sexuality point towards children, the very people the moral code forbids them from going near (and thank the Lord it does).
We created laws and we are better for it but people who break these laws are not necessarily mentally ill.
That article didn't actually mention homosexual and heterosexual sexual arousal at all. There is nothing in the article to specify if any of the three things are separate or similar to each other.
Its just that society finds some of them more acceptable than others. Our man made moral standards have put everyone on a grand pedi stool forgetting that we are all animals at the end of the day. Science and biology is a fascinating thing.
Far less children would be abused if there was more training on the subject. Both victims and peado can lead fulfilling lives, and if they weren't in fear of the pitch fork brigade most peados would come forward for help. Its where do they start?
I never said there was. The article suggests a different 'wiring' for the brain of a paedophile. Previous posts on this thread were asking if they are mentally ill and if homosexuality was also a mental illness in that case. I was stating that there is a different 'wiring' of a paedophile's brain that is not found in heterosexuals or homosexuals and therefore heterosexual sexual arousal and homosexual sexual arousal must be similar and linked, since they have not got the different 'wiring' that a paedophile has.
The conference referred to in your link, however, ISN'T only looking at the ones who act on their urges.
That's the same as addiction which is classed as a mental illnessi in the DSM - which is the diagnostic manual for psychiatry.
However - I'm a qualified mental health nurse and have worked in the mental illness field for 26 years. I have worked with addicts but not paedophiles or other sex offenders.
My personal opinion is that none of them are mental illnesses.
My rationale is personal - I generally work with people with schizophrenia, schizoaffective disorder, bipolar illness, complicated/prolonged depression and some dual diagnosis.
All of these can be helped and in some cases all symptoms alleviated by medication (plus other supportive therapies)
I don't believe that paeodophiles and other sex offenders can be treated with medication - except the chemical castration route but this does not always remove the urge, just the ability to act on their impulses
The legal age of 16 is a cultural decision by society- in japan the legal age of consent is 13. In christian europe it was normal to marry girls at young ages throughout history until fairly modern times, and in many muslim countries this is still the case. I dont think you can consider all of medieval europe, or modern day afganistan, as being mentally ill. It's just a cultural perception, an artificial construct, as to what age we believe is decent.
conversly, in some countries the age of consent is 18, and those countries probably view us as sick.
Personally i've never been attracted to anyone under 20, and i can't understand why other guys my age would like a girl younger.
More precisely: pre-p ubescent children.
There's also 'Hebephilia' attraction to young pubescent children: 11-14.
and 'Ephebophilia': mid to late teens: 15-19 years old.
Although the term paedophilia does seem to be used for anyone who is attracted to or more pecisely is caught having some sexual relation with anyone under 16 years old these days.
Are they ill? For some I'd say they are 'wired differently' just like homosexual people are. and NO I'mnot saying gay people are paedophiles merely that like paedophiles they are not attracted to who they should be attracted to 'normally' i.e. people of the opposite sex' in the case of gay people and pre-pubscent children in the case of paedophiles.
For others it is a power thing rather than a sexual attraction thing..the sexual power buzz comes from having control of others and kids are easier to control...
Oh I'm confused now then. The OP's chosen link doesn't match what they want to talk about
Because sex with children involves subjugation and pain. since children don't volunteer and don't like what's happening. Read up on it. Or betters still talk to abused children. Time to move away from dry dictionary definitions and examine reality.
So they may bury the feelings which become out of control and then they may turn into actions.
Please excuse the spelling.