well the thing is that thy are all asian so i dont get why you cant just call them asian.
Because although Asia is a single continent, it is split in terms of ethnicity, religions and culture. The Orient refers to East Asia (China, Japan, Korea, Thailand etc.), the Indian Sub-Continent refers to India, Pakistan, Bangledesh, and the Middle East refers to Iran, Iraq, Soudi Arabia etc.
Just in the same way you would never say Jamaica was in the Central Americas (which it is), you would always say it was in the Carribean.
I am an American who moved to the UK two years ago. I am also half-Japanese, and use both "Asian" and "Oriental" to describe myself - no one ever told ME it was wrong to use "Oriental" and I don't find it offensive in the slightest, and people in the US would use the word "Oriental" as well. (wow, the word itself becomes really strange when written so many times though ) So if it is wrong, oops, guess I should offended at myself then.
Thanks for that clarity and hope you haven't offended yourself too much.
No it doesn't. It's just a chat about a word fgs. Loads of words get analysed when used on BB. Nobody so far has said they're terrified or even concerned about using it.
According to wiki, it is considered offensive by some in the US but not here. What is the problem with saying that, and discussing it?
I think it's a valid and interesting question. What a shame it gets turned into a yawn inducing 'PC' debate.
I agree.... This is a discussion forum, a place to have a discussion with others about topics of interest.
I did in no way say that I was concerned about its use or that I am scared to use this word.
I did not want to start a PC debate, and this is not what the question was designed to start, I wanted to see other peoples opinions, thats all....
Not at all...
I use the term Oriental and don't see a problem with it.
The reason for my post was to see what other people thought, I know its frowned upon in Australia, and now, I have learnt, through this thread, also in the US.
Personally I don't find it offensive, was just gauging opinion.
Sorry. Political Correctness annoys the hell out of me (you may have noticed )
ye but the thing is that both somalis and nigerians ar african but very different but they still call them and consider them african.
Yes... but why does that make differentiating between different parts of Asia wrong? If people need a term, and the term works, then it's fine - it doesn't deny anyone is "Asian" geographically.
Yes... but why does that make differentiating between different parts of Asia wrong? If people need a term, and the term works, then it's fine - it doesn't deny anyone is "Asian" geographically.
it does tho because i have heard people flat out say chinese people are not asians and i have heard people from the us say indians are not asian. go figure.
it does tho because i have heard people flat out say chinese people are not asians and i have heard people from the us say indians are not asian. go figure.
Both examples, though, are using Asian in its more common form of meaning "people from the area of Asia that makes us think of them as being Asian people (as opposed to Oriental or South Asian, respectively)". I doubt anyone would deny that both sets of people are from the continent called Asia, though..?
I have never understoof that either, I have been to america several times myself. all should be called asian no matter whether they are indian or chinese. thats like saying somalis are not african but nigerian are.
precisely! To be honest, I have no idea how it came about, but it's actually the legal term now to describe those from east asia as 'asian' - that's how it is defined in laws etc...very strange! I have no idea what people from india/pakistan/afghanistan/bangladesh etc are referred to as, and those from west asia - arabia/persia - are referred to as arabs - even if they're from iran! very strange....probably arises from ignorance actually (although before anyone starts, in no way am I inferring that americans are ignorant).
I think the issue there is that most Americans and Europeans are pig ignorant about Africa, and see it as a single blob. We can just about distinguish between 'North African' (Fez hats, paler skin) and the rest of Africa, but that's it. Pretty pathetic for such a massive continent.
We're not much better with Asia. Seems like most of the Western world divides Asia into 'yellow people' (China, and anywhere East of Bhangladesh) and 'brown people' (Bangladesh, India and West). So we want two words for 'Asian' and in the US and the UK we've settled on different words. UK: 'oriental' for yellow, 'asian' for brown. US: 'asian' for yellow, not sure what for brown.
Again pretty pathetic, since there are over 100 ethnic groups in Burma alone! I'm amazed when I hear people fail to distinguish between Chinese and Japanese, but it happens all the time.
How? Does "pigeon-holing" someone white as caucasian or European show inferiority?
Happened to me and that's how I know. Happened to me quite by chance and I was taken aback, and didn't know whether the speaker was really interested about my background, or what. I'm white and don't go around saying to people, you come from such an such an area of the world. I see people as people, and nothing else and wouldn't offend anyone. That person who pointed out my face to me, made me feel different afterwards. Then someone I've known for years said I came from somewhere else, but you know something, it doesn't matter where a person comes from, it's how a person is that matters more. It does to me anyway.
Having lived in Australia, when I first arrived there, I noticed that people of eastern origin are referred to as Asian, and if the word Oriental is used, it is frowned upon.
It doesn't really bother me to be honest, but isn't Oriental a bit politically incorrect with Asian being the more accepted turn of phrase?
This is not an attack at Rex at all, I actually like him and hope he'll do well, I just noticed a difference in the language used here and in Australia and wondered what the opinion of the forum is......
Oriental or Asian....
Which one, you decide.
Asian covers everyone from the Asian continent (stating the obvious I know), but oriental distinguishes the people of the East of the region known as the Orient.
Orientalism is particular nasty according to Edward Said. He argues that the West does not understand the East so they use the term "orientalism" to essentialise and prejudice Eastern peoples.
Orientalism is also the way that the West "normalises" and makes sense of the Asian traditional culture.
In conclusion,it could be stated that to be called an "oriental" is a form of racist Imperial abuse.
As I found to my cost, it is indeed politically incorrect to use the term "Oriental"...well it is if you are in a Jamaican bar anyway.....or a curry house.....or the pizza shop....well i'm sure you'll figure it out like me...
Comments
Because although Asia is a single continent, it is split in terms of ethnicity, religions and culture. The Orient refers to East Asia (China, Japan, Korea, Thailand etc.), the Indian Sub-Continent refers to India, Pakistan, Bangledesh, and the Middle East refers to Iran, Iraq, Soudi Arabia etc.
Just in the same way you would never say Jamaica was in the Central Americas (which it is), you would always say it was in the Carribean.
Thanks for that clarity and hope you haven't offended yourself too much.
I agree.... This is a discussion forum, a place to have a discussion with others about topics of interest.
I did in no way say that I was concerned about its use or that I am scared to use this word.
I did not want to start a PC debate, and this is not what the question was designed to start, I wanted to see other peoples opinions, thats all....
But North Africans aren't they are usually described as Middle Eastern or Arabic.
Sorry. Political Correctness annoys the hell out of me (you may have noticed
We are two nations divided by one language. It's an interesting debate imo.
Im not really sure actually. But Sudan is in north africa i think and most of them are either black or mixed race black and arab with fewer arabs.
I'm more offended by repeatedly picking their menus up off the hall floor along with pizza this and pizza that :mad:
Not that I've ever heard. The most north-easterly African country is Egypt, and I've only ever heard it refered to as Egypt or African.
Yes... but why does that make differentiating between different parts of Asia wrong? If people need a term, and the term works, then it's fine - it doesn't deny anyone is "Asian" geographically.
it does tho because i have heard people flat out say chinese people are not asians and i have heard people from the us say indians are not asian. go figure.
Both examples, though, are using Asian in its more common form of meaning "people from the area of Asia that makes us think of them as being Asian people (as opposed to Oriental or South Asian, respectively)". I doubt anyone would deny that both sets of people are from the continent called Asia, though..?
How? Does "pigeon-holing" someone white as caucasian or European show inferiority?
precisely! To be honest, I have no idea how it came about, but it's actually the legal term now to describe those from east asia as 'asian' - that's how it is defined in laws etc...very strange! I have no idea what people from india/pakistan/afghanistan/bangladesh etc are referred to as, and those from west asia - arabia/persia - are referred to as arabs - even if they're from iran! very strange....probably arises from ignorance actually (although before anyone starts, in no way am I inferring that americans are ignorant).
We're not much better with Asia. Seems like most of the Western world divides Asia into 'yellow people' (China, and anywhere East of Bhangladesh) and 'brown people' (Bangladesh, India and West). So we want two words for 'Asian' and in the US and the UK we've settled on different words. UK: 'oriental' for yellow, 'asian' for brown. US: 'asian' for yellow, not sure what for brown.
Again pretty pathetic, since there are over 100 ethnic groups in Burma alone! I'm amazed when I hear people fail to distinguish between Chinese and Japanese, but it happens all the time.
Happened to me and that's how I know. Happened to me quite by chance and I was taken aback, and didn't know whether the speaker was really interested about my background, or what. I'm white and don't go around saying to people, you come from such an such an area of the world. I see people as people, and nothing else and wouldn't offend anyone. That person who pointed out my face to me, made me feel different afterwards. Then someone I've known for years said I came from somewhere else, but you know something, it doesn't matter where a person comes from, it's how a person is that matters more. It does to me anyway.
Asian covers everyone from the Asian continent (stating the obvious I know), but oriental distinguishes the people of the East of the region known as the Orient.
Orientalism is particular nasty according to Edward Said. He argues that the West does not understand the East so they use the term "orientalism" to essentialise and prejudice Eastern peoples.
Orientalism is also the way that the West "normalises" and makes sense of the Asian traditional culture.
In conclusion,it could be stated that to be called an "oriental" is a form of racist Imperial abuse.
F*** the PC brigade!