but how would av change this based on their votes in 2010 because the tories or labour would have got the most 1st preferences labour and the and then they would look at the people who voted ukip first for their second preferences which would only boost labour or the tories. You would probably get a few seats where ukip are second and then the preferences could get them a few seats but not close to the percentage of the vote they get. PR would assure that 20% of the overall vote meant 20% of the seats
Exactly, how would AV change this?, even under a proportional representation system UKIP would be less popular than the IRA.
Exactly, how would AV change this?, even under a proportional representation system UKIP would be less popular than the IRA.
no they wouldn't be UKIP got 25% of the votes in the local elections the IRA would not get 25% of the overall UK vote, the irsh parties only get around 1% of the votes
no they wouldn't be UKIP got 25% of the votes in the local elections the IRA would not get 25% of the overall UK vote, the irsh parties only get around 1% of the votes
Except AV is a form of proportional representation So it is a true statement that under a system of proportional representation UKIP would be less popular than terrorism.
Except AV is a form of proportional representation So it is a true statement that under a system of proportional representation UKIP would be less popular than terrorism.
No in PR seats directly reflect the vote so e.g. in the 2010 election UKIP got 3% of the vote they would get 3% of the seats, sinn fein got 1% of the votes and would get 1% of the seats
Under AV if you get 50% of the vote in the first round you win Sinn Feinn got more then 50% in 2 seats and almost 50% in another two so would get those seats under AV, UKIP would be unlikely to get 50% in their areas even with second preferences
No in PR seats directly reflect the vote so e.g. in the 2010 election UKIP got 3% of the vote they would get 3% of the seats, sinn fein got 1% of the votes and would get 1% of the seats
Under AV if you get 50% of the vote in the first round you win Sinn Feinn got more then 50% in 2 seats and almost 50% in another two so would get those seats under AV, UKIP would be unlikely to get 50% in their areas even with second preferences
It is , just a slightly different verision of proportional representation than what you are proposing. Your system is known as the single party list system Or mixed member PR
I would say TTSG's statement was correct. Certainly where I live. Their 'campaign' here was hopeless.
My local UKIP council candidate made no effort to make known to me who he is or what his policies would be if elected. He was the only one of five candidates that didn't send a leaflet about himself and his Party.
In spite of that, he came a respectable third in front of a Libdem and an Independent.
Analyse that!
Supposing he was a good candidate and had put the energy into his campaign that my selection (the runner up ) had. He probably would have got my vote, for one, and quite possibly many more.
Replicate that experience across many electoral districts. Then think what might have been!
Absolutely right and certainly true in my ward and in the county as far as I know. Admittedly UKIP weren't any worse than most other candidates and had it not been for the local paper, I'd have never known who two of them were. I had a leaflet from an Independent and one from the Conservative candidate but only in the nick of time on the previous afternoon. I looked at the UKIP list across the county and saw what looked like a putting up anyone who volunteered, regardless of whether they were the right material; I know with some certainty that some of them arent. In the event, my ward's UKIP candidate managed third place, not far behind the Independent. Daft thing is that this area has numerous villages, many with village halls that would have welcomed a few quid in the kitty to let the hall out, so there's no excuses on that score
What local work? Thats not meant to be rude; its a genuine question.
Unless, or until, UKIP gets itself properly organised locally and nationally, with credible candidates, its likely to be no more than a disappointing 'flash in the pan'.
Voters have shown there is potential long term support. Now its time for the Party to get a grip with its organisation nationwide.
And once again you hit the nail on the head and though Farage may be aware of the organisational shortcomings at local level, not to mention the lack of professionalism of some of those running the shows, he has to go some way to sorting things out before the general election in 2015. I think he'll get away with a lot before the EU elections but thre'll be plenty of "old guard" disgruntled local politicians who may find it all too easy to find flaws in both UKIP councillors and their local organisations.
*Ahem* AV is PR. There is more than one form of PR.
And if AV is such a rubbish second rate system, why did UKIP think it was so wonderful in their 2010 manifesto? Mind you, it's nice to see you disagree with UKIP for once.
The alternative vote is not a proportional representation system - in no shape or form could it be considered proportional.
Proportional implies the number of seats won is related to share of the votes achieved across the whole country - look up the word proportional. AV merely ensures the least unpopular person wins in each seat (usually the Lib Dem).
AV - like first past the post - could potentially see one party winning all 650 seats in the Commons - unlikely but not impossible.
PS Totally agree with the previous poster - the ignorance on here is spellbinding.
Comments
Exactly, how would AV change this?, even under a proportional representation system UKIP would be less popular than the IRA.
no they wouldn't be UKIP got 25% of the votes in the local elections the IRA would not get 25% of the overall UK vote, the irsh parties only get around 1% of the votes
Except AV is a form of proportional representation So it is a true statement that under a system of proportional representation UKIP would be less popular than terrorism.
No in PR seats directly reflect the vote so e.g. in the 2010 election UKIP got 3% of the vote they would get 3% of the seats, sinn fein got 1% of the votes and would get 1% of the seats
Under AV if you get 50% of the vote in the first round you win Sinn Feinn got more then 50% in 2 seats and almost 50% in another two so would get those seats under AV, UKIP would be unlikely to get 50% in their areas even with second preferences
It is , just a slightly different verision of proportional representation than what you are proposing. Your system is known as the single party list system Or mixed member PR
Absolutely right and certainly true in my ward and in the county as far as I know. Admittedly UKIP weren't any worse than most other candidates and had it not been for the local paper, I'd have never known who two of them were. I had a leaflet from an Independent and one from the Conservative candidate but only in the nick of time on the previous afternoon. I looked at the UKIP list across the county and saw what looked like a putting up anyone who volunteered, regardless of whether they were the right material; I know with some certainty that some of them arent. In the event, my ward's UKIP candidate managed third place, not far behind the Independent. Daft thing is that this area has numerous villages, many with village halls that would have welcomed a few quid in the kitty to let the hall out, so there's no excuses on that score
And once again you hit the nail on the head and though Farage may be aware of the organisational shortcomings at local level, not to mention the lack of professionalism of some of those running the shows, he has to go some way to sorting things out before the general election in 2015. I think he'll get away with a lot before the EU elections but thre'll be plenty of "old guard" disgruntled local politicians who may find it all too easy to find flaws in both UKIP councillors and their local organisations.
It damned well isn't.
AV is *less* proportional than even FPTP.
When you have ill-informed rubbish like this doing the rounds, it's no wonder we're still stuck with a medieval constitution.
The alternative vote is not a proportional representation system - in no shape or form could it be considered proportional.
Proportional implies the number of seats won is related to share of the votes achieved across the whole country - look up the word proportional. AV merely ensures the least unpopular person wins in each seat (usually the Lib Dem).
AV - like first past the post - could potentially see one party winning all 650 seats in the Commons - unlikely but not impossible.
PS Totally agree with the previous poster - the ignorance on here is spellbinding.