Legal to Point a CCTV Camera Right Down Neighbour's Garden?

HogzillaHogzilla Posts: 24,116
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Our new neighbours moved in at the back end of last year and have caused nothing but problems - abusive, threatening behaviour, screaming abuse at their own kids and eachother and, most recently, calling out the police who knocked on our door and other neighbours' accusing us of stealing their plastic BBQ cover (copper found it in hedge).

One of the creepy things they do is stand on their back door step - at side of house which looks out over lawn of old folks' home where my kids play football. And stare for ages at a time, at my sons (11 and 13).

Today there was a lot of drilling and fuss and upshot is, there are now security cameras on the back, front and side of the house. (It's a council house and they are only probationary tenants so I doubt they even have permission for this). Now I wouldn't mind if the cameras pointed AT their house as it would save us and the other neighbours from the accusations of theft (we have had police called twice now for things they claim were stolen - and weren't). But the back camera points directly down my garden. Where my kids play.

Tomorrow we will have to do something. Police? Council? Both? And if so - is this illegal? Anyone know (from your own experiences, a friend's, or via your work)?

We were looking forward to our usual long hot summer of BBQs and about to put up our kids' giant paddling pool.

Fence is only 3 foot high and council refusing to replace it. The camera is pointing directly right down the entire length of my garden. What to do and am I over-reacting to be creeped out by this?
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Comments

  • MaxatoriaMaxatoria Posts: 17,980
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    Buy a fake camera or 5 from a pound shop and point them at them and see if they complain
  • Red WhineRed Whine Posts: 1,086
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    Complain, it's a breach of your privacy.
    Neighbour where we used to live put cameras up to watch another neighbours house and had to take them down after a visit from the police. The neighbour being
    watched had complained.
  • NormandieNormandie Posts: 4,617
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    You could ring the non-urgent police number - 101 - and discuss your options.

    But the moment you explain that the neighbours stand and stare at your sons and that they will now be able to record your sons playing in their garden in swimsuits, I'm sure your neighbours will receive a visit from the police sooner rather than later.

    I'd also put your concerns in writing to the council and send it recorded delivery.
  • CroctacusCroctacus Posts: 18,218
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    Nah its definitely creepy . I'd complain to the police about them filming your kids in their own garden.
  • albertdalbertd Posts: 14,341
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    Are you certain that they are real cameras and not just a way of trying to intimidate you into a reaction to make you the "bad guy"?
  • davidmcndavidmcn Posts: 12,086
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    Nothing specifically illegal about it, domestic CCTV installations will tend to encroach on the neighbours. It could be viewed as harrassment (as could standing and staring).

    Though I think it's possible that you're misinterpreting what they're up to.
  • Poppy99_PoppyPoppy99_Poppy Posts: 2,255
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    Normandie wrote: »
    You could ring the non-urgent police number - 101 - and discuss your options.

    But the moment you explain that the neighbours stand and stare at your sons and that they will now be able to record your sons playing in their garden in swimsuits, I'm sure your neighbours will receive a visit from the police sooner rather than later.

    I'd also put your concerns in writing to the council and send it recorded delivery.

    They are completely out of order and the above is very good advice. If you do follow it, please report back. It will be interesting to see how the police react.
  • Pull2OpenPull2Open Posts: 15,138
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    Providing it doesn't point at your house ie windows, bedrooms etc i seem to remember that its quite legal. For instance, if someone suspects that people are damaging or gaining access to their garden via a fence, it is entirely reasonable to have a camera trained on that hence, which may record what happens in s neighbours garden too.

    it is creepy though as i would imagine that it is courteous to at least inform your neighbours of this.

    however, i don't think there is any legal redress open to you. The police often get these situations very wrong and tell people to redirect or take cameras down but this is generally outside their powers.
  • sweetpeanutsweetpeanut Posts: 4,805
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    I put those screens all along my low fence so no one can look in anymore. They were really cheap from home bargains.
  • koantemplationkoantemplation Posts: 101,293
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    The police can't stop someone from pointing CCTV at someone's house (as far as I know) but the home owners can take them to court (not sure if it is a civil or criminal matter) if they believe their garden or house is in view of the camera.
  • koantemplationkoantemplation Posts: 101,293
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    If you are concerned that CCTV is being used for harassment, anti social behaviour or other matters dealt with under the criminal law, then these are matters for the police. Images taken for recreation, such as on mobile phones, digital cameras and camcorders, are also exempt from the Act. Law enforcement covert surveillance activities are covered by a separate Act - the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act (RIPA) 2000 and the Regulation of Investigatory Powers (Scotland) Act (RIPSA) 2000.
    http://ico.org.uk/for_the_public/topic_specific_guides/cctv
  • Pull2OpenPull2Open Posts: 15,138
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    private individuals are not answerable to the ico
  • koantemplationkoantemplation Posts: 101,293
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    Pull2Open wrote: »
    private individuals are not answerable to the ico

    Yes I know that's why I put the quote there.
  • Pull2OpenPull2Open Posts: 15,138
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    The police can't stop someone from pointing CCTV at someone's house (as far as I know) but the home owners can take them to court (not sure if it is a civil or criminal matter) if they believe their garden or house is in view of the camera.

    it would be civil and they would have to prove their case which i would imagine would be difficult and expensive.
  • Pull2OpenPull2Open Posts: 15,138
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    Yes I know that's why I put the quote there.

    i misquoted
  • koantemplationkoantemplation Posts: 101,293
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    I wonder if the people responsible for releasing the CCTV video to the CCTV programme on Channel 4, are aware of this law?
    CCTV operators are not allowed to disclose images of identifiable people to the media - or to put them on the internet - for entertainment. Images released to the media to help identify a person are usually disclosed by the police.

    They seem to be flouting it.
  • koantemplationkoantemplation Posts: 101,293
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    Pull2Open wrote: »
    it would be civil and they would have to prove their case which i would imagine would be difficult and expensive.

    It's like I said in the thread about filming in public, the law really needs updating and clarifying on these issues.

    It really shouldn't come down to luck what happens.
  • davidmcndavidmcn Posts: 12,086
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    the home owners can take them to court (not sure if it is a civil or criminal matter) if they believe their garden or house is in view of the camera.

    Merely being "in view of the camera" isn't sufficient for action, assuming we're talking about a domestic CCTV installation. It would need to amount to harrassment.

    If it's, say, a business or council system subject to the Data Protection Act then they should take measures to prevent it accidentally (or deliberately) being pointed at other people's private property (e.g. having software automatically black out certain angles of view).
  • koantemplationkoantemplation Posts: 101,293
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    davidmcn wrote: »
    Merely being "in view of the camera" isn't sufficient for action, assuming we're talking about a domestic CCTV installation. It would need to amount to harrassment.

    If it's, say, a business or council system subject to the Data Protection Act then they should take measures to prevent it accidentally (or deliberately) being pointed at other people's private property (e.g. having software automatically black out certain angles of view).

    There was a good example on the CCTV programme last night.

    This bloke had a pan and scan camera on his house that he could use to look at a house opposite him. He even posts the videos on youtube. (can't find his site).

    While he can record a crime in progress, (such as antisocial behaviour) he should not be able to zoom into their garden or windows.
  • lubaluba Posts: 1,314
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    We have CCTV at home and we also have a sign stating CCTV is in operation which can be seen by others.
    It would be interesting to know if your neighbours have a sign, which I believe is the law.
  • koantemplationkoantemplation Posts: 101,293
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    luba wrote: »
    We have CCTV at home and we also have a sign stating CCTV is in operation which can be seen by others.
    It would be interesting to know if your neighbours have a sign, which I believe is the law.

    Isn't that another of those laws that only applies to organisations rather than individuals?

    And then only if it is pointing at public land such as the pavement or road?
  • davidmcndavidmcn Posts: 12,086
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    luba wrote: »
    We have CCTV at home and we also have a sign stating CCTV is in operation which can be seen by others.
    It would be interesting to know if your neighbours have a sign, which I believe is the law.
    Isn't that another of those laws that only applies to organisations rather than individuals?

    Yes, it's a Data Protection Act requirement, domestic CCTV is exempt.
  • koantemplationkoantemplation Posts: 101,293
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    davidmcn wrote: »
    Yes, it's a Data Protection Act requirement, domestic CCTV is exempt.

    I use my camera behind a net curtain and there is no IR light for it to be seen at night. I also disguise it in a powered milk container so no one can see it when the room light is on and it is dark outside.

    It is not very good for evidence gathering but it can show what has happened enough for me to prove I was not lying about an event.
  • sandman112sandman112 Posts: 348
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    Quick google brought this up, but this goes against something I read a few years back

    I was under the impression that It was illegal to purposefully point a camera into someone else's property with a couple of obvious exceptions, such as traffic cameras or council controlled security cameras that are used to cover streets and public areas and are simply unable to avoid viewing an open garden area.

    Everyone has a right to privacy in the confides of their own home and garden, perticularly an enclosed garden (don't know if this is)
  • lubaluba Posts: 1,314
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    davidmcn wrote: »
    Yes, it's a Data Protection Act requirement, domestic CCTV is exempt.

    You are quite correct.
    We have a small builders yard and that is why we need CCTV.
    I didn't realise domestic use was exempt.:)
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