Will there be a Blair-Brown wing for the industries and companies that got the death knell under their government? We experienced a huge decrease in china clay mining employment down here in the last decade and a bit - and that's despite china clay being something people still need!
As for coal mining, output and number of pits more or less recovered by the end of her time in office - only with fewer people doing the work
What happened to the China Clay industry is what befell the coal mining industry and it's called shorted sighted greed for profit or Capitalism for short.
As far as I am aware by the end of the 80's well over half of coal mines had been closed so the number of pits had massively decreased rather than recovered.
Have you any links to substantiate that the cost was three times more than the coal was worth?
I'd be interested as from what I have read the imported coal was able to undercut British deep mined coal because it was heavilysubsidised ( Poland ) or it was hewn by children in atrocious conditions ( South America )
Yes its funny is it not that a government who opposed subsidised industries imported from a country that subsidised coal production quite bizarre.
Have you any links to substantiate that the cost was three times more than the coal was worth?
I'd be interested as from what I have read the imported coal was able to undercut British deep mined coal because it was heavily subsidised ( Poland ) or it was hewn by children in atrocious conditions ( South America )
We could import coal from the US or Australia for £32-£35 a ton.
The NCB owned a number of pits which were 70 years old or more. They were almost worked out, the seams were narrow, and the cost of the coal they produced was over £100 a ton in some cases.
We could import coal from the US or Australia for £32-£35 a ton.
The NCB owned a number of pits which were 70 years old or more. They were almost worked out, the seams were narrow, and the cost of the coal they produced was over £100 a ton in some cases.
Poland had a state-owned industry. My bet is nobody knew how much it cost to get the coal out of the ground, but they were happy to sell it for foreign currency at the market rate.
Poland had a state-owned industry. My bet is nobody knew how much it cost to get the coal out of the ground, but they were happy to sell it for foreign currency at the market rate.
I agree.
But thatcher hated state owned industries yet she bought from them.
Mind you not everything in the Thatcher era was as it seemed.
But he visited chequers 11 times during her reign.
You would have thought the secret services would have warned her after all this was open gossip in the BBC.
The secret services should have had a private dossier you would have thought when it came to access to the most influential member of government.
Who seemingly listened to him.:(
Yes, apparently many 'people', and the police were aware of his activities - similar to the Rochdale /Rotherham situation where the police had prior knowledge of the grooming scandals. It beggars belief to hear that so much 'turning a blind eye' , whether or not because it is fearful of attracting racist comments, or concerning people with a very high public profile, goes on.
However, when it comes to warning senior public officials of such a sitution.........without having actual evidence..............................................................
Yes, apparently many 'people', and the police were aware of his activities - similar to the Rochdale /Rotherham situation where the police had prior knowledge of the grooming scandals. It beggars belief to hear that so much 'turning a blind eye' , whether or not because it is fearful of attracting racist comments, or concerning people with a very high public profile, goes on. However, when it comes to warning senior public officials of such a sitution.........without having actual evidence..............................................................
At Cyril Smith's 80th birthday party, a gushing message from current Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg was read out, which said: 'You were a beacon for our party in the '70s and '80s and continue to be an inspiration to the people of Rochdale'
Cameron has given his backing to a £15 million Thatcher Museum celebrating the 'merits' of Neo Liberalism.
It seems he is determined not to be Prime Minister come May....
You think people will vote for him based on the fact that he proposes to chuck fifteen million down the toilet. A Winston museum would be worthy but not Thatcher.
You think people will vote for him based on the fact that he proposes to chuck fifteen million down the toilet. A Winston museum would be worthy but not Thatcher.
It was worth £15 and more just to rid this country of that union scum Scargill that held this country to ransom over many years. The only people who loved him were the miners digging coal out of spent pits.
Will there be a Blair-Brown wing for the industries and companies that got the death knell under their government? We experienced a huge decrease in china clay mining employment down here in the last decade and a bit - and that's despite china clay being something people still need!
Who needs it? the Chinese or other countries that the vast bulk of pottery production got outsourced to from the early 80s onwards due to good old 'market forces'
I experienced it first hand, as us pottery workers in Stoke on Trent ended up chasing fewer and fewer jobs as pottery firm after pottery firm laid off their workers and out sourced their production to the far east, I may have mentioned it, but I lost count of the number of times I was made redundant as our pottery industry was smashed on the altar of greed and profit, some of these companies were over 250 years old and had employed generations of the same families.
"Your own fault for not competing" the Tory supporters would/will say, but I would love to know how British workers could be expected to compete with workers who work for 5 and a half days a week for 12 hours a day, for a weekly wage that's the equivalent of about half a days pay, (or less) for a highly skilled British pottery worker,
I actually visited one of the factories out there, the workers lived in the factory, they get one weeks holiday a year unpaid and a day and a half off per week,
they have to ask permission to leave the factory to go shopping etc, they have to get permission to marry and to have children, there are no trades unions no health and safety and no employment rights whatsoever.
and on top of all this the British company owners got their products manufactured at a tiny percentage of the cost of manufacture here and yet their prices stayed the same in the shops. and their good were still sold under the British companies name as though they were still being manufactured here.
A Tory idea of heaven no doubt, I even overheard my boss saying "if only we could get away with this back home"
You think people will vote for him based on the fact that he proposes to chuck fifteen million down the toilet. A Winston museum would be worthy but not Thatcher.
I don't think the govt is paying anything towards the museum. He should probably make that clear!
We could import coal from the US or Australia for £32-£35 a ton.
The NCB owned a number of pits which were 70 years old or more. They were almost worked out, the seams were narrow, and the cost of the coal they produced was over £100 a ton in some cases.
That's fine then if it's just your word about coal in former UK mines costing 3 times to dig out than what it was sold for,
"The expensive mines were closed because the coal they produced was worth about a third of the cost of getting it out of the ground."
Yes there was some old collieries that were old and worked out, however mines such as the Selby Complex or Parkside in Lancashire were among the most efficent deep coal mines in the world with hundreds of millions spent in developing them.
They went down the pan for the sake of making a political point, and we are now paying for it.
That's fine then if it's just your word about coal in former UK mines costing 3 times to dig out than what it was sold for,
"The expensive mines were closed because the coal they produced was worth about a third of the cost of getting it out of the ground."
Yes there was some old collieries that were old and worked out, however mines such as the Selby Complex or Parkside in Lancashire were among the most efficent deep coal mines in the world with hundreds of millions spent in developing them. They went down the pan for the sake of making a political point, and we are now paying for it.
You really do spout nonsense. When the leader of the mining Union claims that NO mine will be closed whilst there is still coal in it, tends to over-ride any 'political' considerations, especially when the coal mining industry had been declining for decades. Like the 'dockers', agricultural and several other industries, technical progress and various inovations effectively reduced demand for their product, well before the 80s, as Gas finds, nuclear generating plants, the demise of steam locomotives etc. all greatly affected the market because of declining demand - but Scargill's stupid confrontation with the government was a mindless campaign that no sensible government could afford to ignore, or buy off.
The social problem was inevitable, ( similar to the demise of our shipbuilding industry), as so many communities had been established around the pits - but Scargill escalated it by starting a war that he could not win.
You really do spout nonsense. When the leader of the mining Union claims that NO mine will be closed whilst there is still coal in it, tends to over-ride any 'political' considerations, especially when the coal mining industry had been declining for decades. Like the 'dockers', agricultural and several other industries, technical progress and various inovations effectively reduced demand for their product, well before the 80s, as Gas finds, nuclear generating plants, the demise of steam locomotives etc. all greatly affected the market because of declining demand - but Scargill's stupid confrontation with the government was a mindless campaign that no sensible government could afford to ignore, or buy off.
The social problem was inevitable, ( similar to the demise of our shipbuilding industry), as so many communities had been established around the pits - but Scargill escalated it by starting a war that he could not win.
Sure about that?
Coal accounts for around 50% of power generation in this country and its share is rising.
Check the figures rather than 'spout nonesense' about declining coal.
That's fine then if it's just your word about coal in former UK mines costing 3 times to dig out than what it was sold for,
"The expensive mines were closed because the coal they produced was worth about a third of the cost of getting it out of the ground."
Yes there was some old collieries that were old and worked out, however mines such as the Selby Complex or Parkside in Lancashire were among the most efficent deep coal mines in the world with hundreds of millions spent in developing them.
They went down the pan for the sake of making a political point, and we are now paying for it.
If you really want proof it will be in the Times newspaper archives.
I agree there were modern pits producing coal at under £30 a ton, but the NUM went on strike to keep the old and expensive ones open.
If you really want proof it will be in the Times newspaper archives.
I agree there were modern pits producing coal at under £30 a ton, but the NUM went on strike to keep the old and expensive ones open.
The Thatcher government reneged on a deal where collieries would be subject to a review by all the parties concerned on whether a mine should be kept open or not.
In other words they ripped up an agreement and deliberately provoked a strike.
You mean 'The Times' owned by Murdoch? The voice of truth and democracy...
Who needs it? the Chinese or other countries that the vast bulk of pottery production got outsourced to from the early 80s onwards due to good old 'market forces'
I experienced it first hand, as us pottery workers in Stoke on Trent ended up chasing fewer and fewer jobs as pottery firm after pottery firm laid off their workers and out sourced their production to the far east, I may have mentioned it, but I lost count of the number of times I was made redundant as our pottery industry was smashed on the altar of greed and profit, some of these companies were over 250 years old and had employed generations of the same families.
"Your own fault for not competing" the Tory supporters would/will say, but I would love to know how British workers could be expected to compete with workers who work for 5 and a half days a week for 12 hours a day, for a weekly wage that's the equivalent of about half a days pay, (or less) for a highly skilled British pottery worker,
I actually visited one of the factories out there, the workers lived in the factory, they get one weeks holiday a year unpaid and a day and a half off per week,
they have to ask permission to leave the factory to go shopping etc, they have to get permission to marry and to have children, there are no trades unions no health and safety and no employment rights whatsoever.
and on top of all this the British company owners got their products manufactured at a tiny percentage of the cost of manufacture here and yet their prices stayed the same in the shops. and their good were still sold under the British companies name as though they were still being manufactured here.
A Tory idea of heaven no doubt, I even overheard my boss saying "if only we could get away with this back home"
Globalisation is more popular with professors of economics that Tories, who will often favour tariffs and other barriers to protect strategic industries.
It is the EU that prevents us from putting up any barriers to Chinese goods.
The Thatcher government reneged on a deal where collieries would be subject to a review by all the parties concerned on whether a mine should be kept open or not.
In other words they ripped up an agreement and deliberately provoked a strike.
Well, it was an agreement signed under duress. Nobody would volunteer to buy coal regardless of price.
You mean 'The Times' owned by Murdoch? The voice of truth and democracy...
I remember the same numbers being quoted when Arthur Scargill was interviewed on TV.
Comments
What happened to the China Clay industry is what befell the coal mining industry and it's called shorted sighted greed for profit or Capitalism for short.
As far as I am aware by the end of the 80's well over half of coal mines had been closed so the number of pits had massively decreased rather than recovered.
Yes its funny is it not that a government who opposed subsidised industries imported from a country that subsidised coal production quite bizarre.
We could import coal from the US or Australia for £32-£35 a ton.
The NCB owned a number of pits which were 70 years old or more. They were almost worked out, the seams were narrow, and the cost of the coal they produced was over £100 a ton in some cases.
What about Polish subsidised coal then.?
No, it isn't.
Probably, making them look like a bunch of muppets.
Poland had a state-owned industry. My bet is nobody knew how much it cost to get the coal out of the ground, but they were happy to sell it for foreign currency at the market rate.
I agree.
But thatcher hated state owned industries yet she bought from them.
Mind you not everything in the Thatcher era was as it seemed.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/revealed-jimmy-saviles-close-friendship-with-margaret-thatcher-8432351.html
Do you think that she was the only one who was fooled by that piece of scum's fund raising activities? But then then Left are certainly far from being stain proof aren't they?
And some still attempt to downplay that connection with paedophilia.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/jimmy-savile/9614516/Jimmy-Savile-Labour-faces-embarrassment-over-former-child-sex-claims.html
I do agree with you.
But he visited chequers 11 times during her reign.
You would have thought the secret services would have warned her after all this was open gossip in the BBC.
The secret services should have had a private dossier you would have thought when it came to access to the most influential member of government.
Who seemingly listened to him.:(
Yes, apparently many 'people', and the police were aware of his activities - similar to the Rochdale /Rotherham situation where the police had prior knowledge of the grooming scandals. It beggars belief to hear that so much 'turning a blind eye' , whether or not because it is fearful of attracting racist comments, or concerning people with a very high public profile, goes on.
However, when it comes to warning senior public officials of such a sitution.........without having actual evidence..............................................................
Hmmmmmm.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2602802/How-Liberal-party-police-MI5-concealed-MP-Cyril-Smiths-industrial-scale-child-abuse.html
At Cyril Smith's 80th birthday party, a gushing message from current Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg was read out, which said: 'You were a beacon for our party in the '70s and '80s and continue to be an inspiration to the people of Rochdale'
Oh dear.>:(:(
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2602802/How-Liberal-party-police-MI5-concealed-MP-Cyril-Smiths-industrial-scale-child-abuse.html#ixzz3RAVq379F
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You think people will vote for him based on the fact that he proposes to chuck fifteen million down the toilet. A Winston museum would be worthy but not Thatcher.
It was worth £15 and more just to rid this country of that union scum Scargill that held this country to ransom over many years. The only people who loved him were the miners digging coal out of spent pits.
I experienced it first hand, as us pottery workers in Stoke on Trent ended up chasing fewer and fewer jobs as pottery firm after pottery firm laid off their workers and out sourced their production to the far east, I may have mentioned it, but I lost count of the number of times I was made redundant as our pottery industry was smashed on the altar of greed and profit, some of these companies were over 250 years old and had employed generations of the same families.
"Your own fault for not competing" the Tory supporters would/will say, but I would love to know how British workers could be expected to compete with workers who work for 5 and a half days a week for 12 hours a day, for a weekly wage that's the equivalent of about half a days pay, (or less) for a highly skilled British pottery worker,
I actually visited one of the factories out there, the workers lived in the factory, they get one weeks holiday a year unpaid and a day and a half off per week,
they have to ask permission to leave the factory to go shopping etc, they have to get permission to marry and to have children, there are no trades unions no health and safety and no employment rights whatsoever.
and on top of all this the British company owners got their products manufactured at a tiny percentage of the cost of manufacture here and yet their prices stayed the same in the shops. and their good were still sold under the British companies name as though they were still being manufactured here.
A Tory idea of heaven no doubt, I even overheard my boss saying "if only we could get away with this back home"
I don't think the govt is paying anything towards the museum. He should probably make that clear!
That's fine then if it's just your word about coal in former UK mines costing 3 times to dig out than what it was sold for,
"The expensive mines were closed because the coal they produced was worth about a third of the cost of getting it out of the ground."
Yes there was some old collieries that were old and worked out, however mines such as the Selby Complex or Parkside in Lancashire were among the most efficent deep coal mines in the world with hundreds of millions spent in developing them.
They went down the pan for the sake of making a political point, and we are now paying for it.
Are you sure about it not being funded by taxpayers money?
If Cameron is backing it then normally it means it will receive government funding.
The social problem was inevitable, ( similar to the demise of our shipbuilding industry), as so many communities had been established around the pits - but Scargill escalated it by starting a war that he could not win.
Sure about that?
Coal accounts for around 50% of power generation in this country and its share is rising.
Check the figures rather than 'spout nonesense' about declining coal.
If you really want proof it will be in the Times newspaper archives.
I agree there were modern pits producing coal at under £30 a ton, but the NUM went on strike to keep the old and expensive ones open.
The Thatcher government reneged on a deal where collieries would be subject to a review by all the parties concerned on whether a mine should be kept open or not.
In other words they ripped up an agreement and deliberately provoked a strike.
You mean 'The Times' owned by Murdoch? The voice of truth and democracy...
It is the EU that prevents us from putting up any barriers to Chinese goods.
I remember the same numbers being quoted when Arthur Scargill was interviewed on TV.
What duress was this?
I don't recollect any figures being quoted when Scargill was interviewed in any shape or form.