My belief is they intentionally 'killed him' as the focus was on getting Roman Reigns over as a main event and to a lesser extent getting the title on Seth, which was sped up after plan A didn't work. As they were focusing on the other two former Shield guys it put him in a prime position to lose his feud to Seth and prepare Bray for Undertaker. That he didn't to any of those matches particularly cleanly, at least until the post Raw one against Cena speaks for itself. Plus, he was one of those who Vince put over in that interview.
He's not going anyway as a babyface though and doesn't seem that comfortable in the role.
You make some really good points.
I wouldn't argue too that not winning in that Summerslam-Survivor Series period hurt him massively (when he returned in September he was still over as hell) - the loss that hurt Ambrose most was that awful TLC ending which made him look an utter chump.
There were segments too like dummy-gate which just went beyond slapstick and light-hearted (which he's often good at and which are entertaining) and just made look rather stupid and wrong in the head instead of a lovable lunatic.
There's a difference between say that green mist briefcase segment (which was less serious but still great fun and made sense) and Dean talking to a dummy.
That Wyatt feud was nothing short of a disaster though - it didn't help either of those two.
I know I'm out of the loop recently (WWE couldn't possibly be less interesting currently) and I'm sure it's been discussed but what's this stuff about Lana supposedly getting a mega babyface push? I guess Vince sees her as another Sable.
It is really quite drab isn't it? The talking points this month are Kane's 10th or so face turn, old shtick such as an evil Russian woman becoming nice, Naomi's attitude change, a one dimensional love affair involving a one dimensional dancer and PG party animal, and colorful kids favorites cheating!
Agree with this. They used him to fill a few months with no intention of ever going all the way with him, even though he seemed on the verge of something great in late August/September time. I think he can play babyface perfectly well and would be different to what else WWE have on top but he's presented as such a goofy, slapstick character. His ring work has declined too.
I have a feeling, which may be incorrect, that he had always been a heel in the indies and WWE before the 2013 face turn. It might be more difficult for him to work as a babyface both in the ring and in segments. He could probably adjust but Brooklyn Brawler attire (Harper had that covered), childish segments, exploding TVs and material such as "He's a turd" gives him even more of a uphill challenge.
I think it may end with Lana throwing in the towel for Rusev.
If they wanted to bring Nikki into this now she appears to be a face this week then have Lana get a new client and kidnap Nikki and threaten to drop her off something unless Cena quits.
Not keen on that idea as it would inevitably prolong the feud and lead to a 5th PPV match between Cena and Rusev.
Good to see they are now calling him King Barrett.
All hail King Barrett.
Turned out the timing of the KOTR tournament wasn't half bad in hindsight. ;-)
Anyway, I'm tired beyond belief and need the rest (and can't see the show being good) so as much as I'd like to spend several hours reminding Alexi that Barrett is our new King (which I'm sure he loves), I think I'll get some sleep instead.
Good luck to anyone watching/who makes it through this week's Raw live.
Turned out the timing of the KOTR tournament wasn't half bad in hindsight. ;-)
Anyway, I'm tired beyond belief and need the rest (and can't see the show being good) so as much as I'd like to spend several hours reminding Alexi that Barrett is our new King (which I'm sure he loves), I think I'll get some sleep instead.
Good luck to anyone watching/who makes it through this week's Raw live.
Who needs sleep when you can listen to JBL and Booker T for 3 hours?:D
And you sort of ignore with that no singles win between NOC 2013 and ER 2015 that he didn't exactly have a singles match on PPV between Night of Champions 2013 and Summerslam 2014.
To be fair you're not the only one but using the stat in that way makes the whole thing sound far worse than it actually is. Summerslam 2014 to Extreme Rules 2015 is still a bit of a while without a singles win to be fair but not nearly as bad as 18 months sounds.
I'll come back to the rest of your post(s) later (probably tomorrow) but I wanted to touch on this point
From Extreme Rules 2013 to Extreme Rules 2015 Dean Ambrose has had 22 Pay-Per-View matches
-2 Royal Rumbles
-2 Money in the Bank Match
-6 Matches as The Shield
-12 Matches as a singles guy (not including Rumbles or Money in the Bank)
Of those total 22 matches he has won 7 and lost 15 but lets be nice and take The Rumble matches out of the equation giving him a record of 7 wins and 13 loses in the space of 2 years. Now lets look at how his record breaks down in singles matches vs. matches as The Shield. The Shield matches give us a 50-50 split with 3 wins and 3 loses. What is perhaps worth mentioning here though is that one of those wins was at Survivor Series '13 where Team Shield won but Ambrose was eliminated from the match about 2 minutes in. As a singles guy he has 4 victories and one of those was via count out.
Here's another interesting stat for you in 2014 Dean Ambrose made 10 Pay-Per-View appearances 6 of those were as a singles guy (including The Rumble and Money in the Bank). He won just 2 of his 10 matches and both of those wins came during one of his 4 matches as part of The Shield. If we extend this into 2015 so far then Ambrose had another 4 Pay-Per-View matches and all of them were as singles (including another Rumble) and he won just one of those. So in a 16 month period Ambrose had 10 Pay-Per-View matches as a singles guy and he won one of them. Even removing the two Rumble matches from that we drop down to 8 singles matches with 1 victory.
Yes heels need to look strong but so do faces. And faces do not look strong when they're winning 1 out of every 8 PPV singles match they have. Asking the audience to invest in a guy that loses that much is a losing game. There has to be a sense of a balance and a belief that either side of the heel/face equation can win. When Ambrose loses so God damn always that balance does not exist.
Extreme Rule '13 – Ambrose d. Kofi Kingston
Payback – Ambrose d. Kane (via countout)
Money in the Bank – Ambrose loses Money in the Bank Match
SummerSlam – Ambrose loses to Rob Van Dam
Night of Champions – Ambrose d. Dolph Ziggler
Battleground – No Match
Hell in a Cell – Ambrose loses to Big E (via countout)
Survivor Series – Team Shield wins (but Ambrose was eliminated in just over 2 minutes)
TLC – The Shield lose to CM Punk
Royal Rumble '14 – Ambrose loses The Royal Rumble
Elimination Chamber – The Shield lose to The Wyatt Family
WrestleMania 30 – The Shield d. Kane/New Age Outlaws
Extreme Rules – The Shield lose to Evolution
Payback – The Shield d. Evolution
Money in the Bank – Ambrose loses the Money in the Bank match
Battleground – No match
SummerSlam – Ambrose loses to Rollins
Night of Champions – No Match
Hell in a Cell – Ambrose loses to Rollins
Survivor Series – Ambrose loses to Wyatt
TLC – Ambrose loses to Wyatt
Royal Rumble '15 – Ambrose loses The Royal Rumble
Fast Lane – Ambrose loses to Barrett
WrestleMania 31 – Ambrose loses a ladder match for the IC Title
Extreme Rules – Ambrose d. Harper
They should have gone with Orton/Rollins III to pair with Cena/Rusev IV?
Or found a different feud for Rollins altogether. They still haven't learned to hold off on Reigns and build him up after a horrid couple of months between Rumble and Mania.
Or found a different feud for Rollins altogether. They still haven't learned to hold off on Reigns and build him up after a horrid couple of months between Rumble and Mania.
But I could have watched Rollins vs Orton 3
I wonder how the Reigns buildup would have gone had he not missed a few months whilst he was injured last year?
Comments
You make some really good points.
I wouldn't argue too that not winning in that Summerslam-Survivor Series period hurt him massively (when he returned in September he was still over as hell) - the loss that hurt Ambrose most was that awful TLC ending which made him look an utter chump.
There were segments too like dummy-gate which just went beyond slapstick and light-hearted (which he's often good at and which are entertaining) and just made look rather stupid and wrong in the head instead of a lovable lunatic.
There's a difference between say that green mist briefcase segment (which was less serious but still great fun and made sense) and Dean talking to a dummy.
That Wyatt feud was nothing short of a disaster though - it didn't help either of those two.
It is really quite drab isn't it? The talking points this month are Kane's 10th or so face turn, old shtick such as an evil Russian woman becoming nice, Naomi's attitude change, a one dimensional love affair involving a one dimensional dancer and PG party animal, and colorful kids favorites cheating!
I'm starting question whether it's 2015 or 1985.
I have a feeling, which may be incorrect, that he had always been a heel in the indies and WWE before the 2013 face turn. It might be more difficult for him to work as a babyface both in the ring and in segments. He could probably adjust but Brooklyn Brawler attire (Harper had that covered), childish segments, exploding TVs and material such as "He's a turd" gives him even more of a uphill challenge.
I do like it when The King goes full on with the gimmick.
King Mable sucked but at least he played up to it like it meant something.
Not keen on that idea as it would inevitably prolong the feud and lead to a 5th PPV match between Cena and Rusev.
Think they said this is the last match no matter who wins it's part of the gimmick.
Some royal style theme music would go well with his gimmick.
King Booker really did well with the king gimmick as well.
All hail King Barrett.
Turned out the timing of the KOTR tournament wasn't half bad in hindsight. ;-)
Anyway, I'm tired beyond belief and need the rest (and can't see the show being good) so as much as I'd like to spend several hours reminding Alexi that Barrett is our new King (which I'm sure he loves), I think I'll get some sleep instead.
Good luck to anyone watching/who makes it through this week's Raw live.
Hopefully that's the case. 4 one on one PPV matches between them in a row is more than enough.
Who needs sleep when you can listen to JBL and Booker T for 3 hours?:D
You confused those two with Phillips and Saxton ( who'd send me to sleep).
JBL and Booker would have me yelling at the TV instead. :-D
If you are having an early night's sleep on Friday, just turn Smackdown on.:D
From Extreme Rules 2013 to Extreme Rules 2015 Dean Ambrose has had 22 Pay-Per-View matches
-2 Royal Rumbles
-2 Money in the Bank Match
-6 Matches as The Shield
-12 Matches as a singles guy (not including Rumbles or Money in the Bank)
Of those total 22 matches he has won 7 and lost 15 but lets be nice and take The Rumble matches out of the equation giving him a record of 7 wins and 13 loses in the space of 2 years. Now lets look at how his record breaks down in singles matches vs. matches as The Shield. The Shield matches give us a 50-50 split with 3 wins and 3 loses. What is perhaps worth mentioning here though is that one of those wins was at Survivor Series '13 where Team Shield won but Ambrose was eliminated from the match about 2 minutes in. As a singles guy he has 4 victories and one of those was via count out.
Here's another interesting stat for you in 2014 Dean Ambrose made 10 Pay-Per-View appearances 6 of those were as a singles guy (including The Rumble and Money in the Bank). He won just 2 of his 10 matches and both of those wins came during one of his 4 matches as part of The Shield. If we extend this into 2015 so far then Ambrose had another 4 Pay-Per-View matches and all of them were as singles (including another Rumble) and he won just one of those. So in a 16 month period Ambrose had 10 Pay-Per-View matches as a singles guy and he won one of them. Even removing the two Rumble matches from that we drop down to 8 singles matches with 1 victory.
Yes heels need to look strong but so do faces. And faces do not look strong when they're winning 1 out of every 8 PPV singles match they have. Asking the audience to invest in a guy that loses that much is a losing game. There has to be a sense of a balance and a belief that either side of the heel/face equation can win. When Ambrose loses so God damn always that balance does not exist.
Payback – Ambrose d. Kane (via countout)
Money in the Bank – Ambrose loses Money in the Bank Match
SummerSlam – Ambrose loses to Rob Van Dam
Night of Champions – Ambrose d. Dolph Ziggler
Battleground – No Match
Hell in a Cell – Ambrose loses to Big E (via countout)
Survivor Series – Team Shield wins (but Ambrose was eliminated in just over 2 minutes)
TLC – The Shield lose to CM Punk
Royal Rumble '14 – Ambrose loses The Royal Rumble
Elimination Chamber – The Shield lose to The Wyatt Family
WrestleMania 30 – The Shield d. Kane/New Age Outlaws
Extreme Rules – The Shield lose to Evolution
Payback – The Shield d. Evolution
Money in the Bank – Ambrose loses the Money in the Bank match
Battleground – No match
SummerSlam – Ambrose loses to Rollins
Night of Champions – No Match
Hell in a Cell – Ambrose loses to Rollins
Survivor Series – Ambrose loses to Wyatt
TLC – Ambrose loses to Wyatt
Royal Rumble '15 – Ambrose loses The Royal Rumble
Fast Lane – Ambrose loses to Barrett
WrestleMania 31 – Ambrose loses a ladder match for the IC Title
Extreme Rules – Ambrose d. Harper
I wonder how long until someone mentions the Montreal screwjob?
I think they've made another wrong decision putting Reigns into this match.
Or found a different feud for Rollins altogether. They still haven't learned to hold off on Reigns and build him up after a horrid couple of months between Rumble and Mania.
But I could have watched Rollins vs Orton 3
I wonder how the Reigns buildup would have gone had he not missed a few months whilst he was injured last year?