Do you REALLY honestly think that people like that would be scared out of crime by a tag? And do you REALLY think that someone taking a beating will make others respect the police more?
Bollocks, I'm afraid.
Tag and curfew for young offenders is a brilliant way to stop crime, it takes away freedom, stops the person from going out at night and causing trouble....I know many people who have been put on tag and all say its horrible. When somebody has a thuggish mentality, yes fear of violence will cause a faux respect. In gangland culture fear often equals respect.
Tag and curfew is a brilliant way to stop crime, it takes away freedom, stops the person from going out at night and causing trouble....I know many people who have been put on tag and all say its horrible. When somebody has a thuggish mentality, yes fear of violence will cause a faux respect. In gangland culture fear often equals respect.
Wrong. Fear of violence from a gang member might cause respect, but threat of violence from a position of authority will further deepen the mistrust and hatred of that authority. Heavy-handedness still isn't the answer.
i dont think it can ever be stopped like the drug culture its been allowed to flourish
The 2 are very much interlinked, right from the lowest level 16yr old weed dealer selling to his college mates with his 'boys' to protect him, right upto the gangs who control the international drug trade. Whilst you have drugs, you will always have gangs. Just another reason for de-criminalisation IMO.
Gang culture is part of mainstream media now though - and who's going to tell the music and film companies that they're not allowed to send out certain messages anymore?
The media that vilifies something is usually the thing that creates it in the first place.
Wrong. Fear of violence from a gang member might cause respect, but threat of violence from a position of authority will further deepen the mistrust and hatred of that authority. Heavy-handedness still isn't the answer.
I think your wrong and disagree with you, but you have said your view, I have said mine and we are just going round in circles now!
Gang culture is part of mainstream media now though - and who's going to tell the music and film companies that they're not allowed to send out certain messages anymore?
The media that vilifies something is usually the thing that creates it in the first place.
Thankfully the vast majority of us can separate what we see on the TV from our own reality.
Especially when kids are at their most impressionable as well.
Totally - and quite often its reinforced by the behaviour of their parents or the parents of their peers, who if long-term unemployed because of a lack of skills or desire to train, or of a low level of educational attainment, will also emulate negative behaviour as a form of self-affirmation.
Totally - and quite often its reinforced by the behaviour of their parents or the parents of their peers, who if long-term unemployed because of a lack of skills or desire to train, or of a low level of educational attainment, will also emulate negative behaviour as a form of self-affirmation.
Not to mention when we add in a culture of blame...things are pretty messed up in parts of this country.
powers have been eroded teachers cant do anything otherwise they lose their jobs the police are no longer respected its just a complete lack of discipline & respect and its not only the unemployed parents kids who have turned into first class 2@s its across the board
Not to mention when we add in a culture of blame...things are pretty messed up in parts of this country.
They are indeed, and they have been for a long time.
People are quick to blame successive governments, but I think the major villain here is the media industry who can only make money by selling an artificial version of reality that appeals to people's most simple and basic instincts as an outlet.
Easy money, greed, have what you want without effort, photoshopped models presented as an aspirational ideal - it's no wonder that kids can be so messed up.
They are indeed, and they have been for a long time.
People are quick to blame successive governments, but I think the major villain here is the media industry who can only make money by selling an artificial version of reality that appeals to people's most simple and basic instincts as an outlet.
Easy money, greed, have what you want without effort, photoshopped models presented as an aspirational ideal - it's no wonder that kids can be so messed up.
Katie Price has put out FOUR autobiographies.
What the **** has that vacant and vile woman ever done that could fill four books?
That's another thing that annoys me - people who put out autobiographies before they've even finished up their careers - they're supposed to be memoirs, not a cash cow. I laughed when I found out how many England footballers were putting books out after the last world cup - words were beyond me!
Anyway, the media is probably to blame for a large part of where this country is at right now. And I'm not going to blame a specific party, but the process of Government is definitely due a large part of the blame as well, because nobody in any of the parties actually has any clue what it's like to be in the situation these kids find themselves in. And they really don't care as long as the businesses are raking in tax money.
Young bad boy type men are not influenced by Big Brother, X-Factor and STCD!!!!!
They will be influenced by violent films, their friends, boredom, easy money/lack of money, respect from their peers, rap culture, poor education, violent video games and a lack of role models in their life. If your dad and uncle are also 'badmen' in the area...well the kid has no chance.
The influence of Big Brother doesn't come into play.
I dunno pete, I don't think fighting violence with violence is the answer. You've got to lead by example.
I disagree, some people only know violence.
I gave an example of what I would do to combat the problem, it may well be the wrong one, I am just giving my view. Most in this thread have just come up with reasons as to why gang culture exists, not giving sample solutions to the problem.
My 2 solutions would be for the the police to be more heavy handed (not having to worry about the repercussions is they think its justified) and to decriminalise drugs....drug and gang culture go hand in hand, limit the money making the gang can do then you limit the gang. At least on a national scale.
Right, but surely teaching them a lesson with more violence is doing nothing productive at all. If you want to change behaviour you have to change the thinking and in order to do that you have to teach them something new, a new way of dealing with things, no?
If they're a trouble making gang, one warning, one light sentence, then after that prison. And NOT the soft style prisons we've got here, no PS2/3, no Xbox's or HR, etc. The only luxury being TV.
If they're a trouble making gang, one warning, one light sentence, then after that prison. And the soft style prisons we've got here, no PS2/3, no Xbox's or HR, etc. The only luxury being TV.
The problem with putting gang members in prison is that gang culture exists in prison too. In prison grudges are formed and outside members carry out the dirty work when inmates are released. Prison (tough ones that you speak of) do nothing to stop gang behaviour.
The problem with putting gang members in prison is that gang culture exists in prison too. In prison grudges are formed and outside members carry out the dirty work when inmates are released. Prison (tough ones that you speak of) do nothing to stop gang behaviour.
I'd hope the prison would have rehab schemes to deal with that, preferably from ex-members.
I'd hope the prison would have rehab schemes to deal with that, preferably from ex-members.
If we're talking about the US, not really. Prison in the UK and the US focus more on punishment than rehabilitation, which whilst punishment needs to be given, we are doing so at the expense of rehabilitation. Furthermore if you do mange to rehabilitate a prisoner you need to make sure they don't slip back into that life when they leave, which is all too common.
Right, but surely teaching them a lesson with more violence is doing nothing productive at all. If you want to change behaviour you have to change the thinking and in order to do that you have to teach them something new, a new way of dealing with things, no?
I agree. I'm not saying that the police should do nothing in response to specific acts of violence but focusing simply on punishment does nothing to prevent it happening again. Something has to be done to prevent kids wanting to join gangs in the first place.
Right, but surely teaching them a lesson with more violence is doing nothing productive at all. If you want to change behaviour you have to change the thinking and in order to do that you have to teach them something new, a new way of dealing with things, no?
For kids it would work but try changing a 17-21 yr olds way of thinking when they have lived the gangster lifestyle for a few years, have made and spent a fortune, have respect and fear from their mates and a long criminal record. You can't change the mentality of some people under our current system.
Comments
Tag and curfew for young offenders is a brilliant way to stop crime, it takes away freedom, stops the person from going out at night and causing trouble....I know many people who have been put on tag and all say its horrible. When somebody has a thuggish mentality, yes fear of violence will cause a faux respect. In gangland culture fear often equals respect.
Wrong. Fear of violence from a gang member might cause respect, but threat of violence from a position of authority will further deepen the mistrust and hatred of that authority. Heavy-handedness still isn't the answer.
The 2 are very much interlinked, right from the lowest level 16yr old weed dealer selling to his college mates with his 'boys' to protect him, right upto the gangs who control the international drug trade. Whilst you have drugs, you will always have gangs. Just another reason for de-criminalisation IMO.
The media that vilifies something is usually the thing that creates it in the first place.
I think your wrong and disagree with you, but you have said your view, I have said mine and we are just going round in circles now!
Thankfully the vast majority of us can separate what we see on the TV from our own reality.
It's not just TV - it's football, music, advertising.. bits and bobs here and there, the sum total of which is overwhelmingly negative.
Especially when kids are at their most impressionable as well.
Totally - and quite often its reinforced by the behaviour of their parents or the parents of their peers, who if long-term unemployed because of a lack of skills or desire to train, or of a low level of educational attainment, will also emulate negative behaviour as a form of self-affirmation.
Not to mention when we add in a culture of blame...things are pretty messed up in parts of this country.
They are indeed, and they have been for a long time.
People are quick to blame successive governments, but I think the major villain here is the media industry who can only make money by selling an artificial version of reality that appeals to people's most simple and basic instincts as an outlet.
Easy money, greed, have what you want without effort, photoshopped models presented as an aspirational ideal - it's no wonder that kids can be so messed up.
Katie Price has put out FOUR autobiographies.
What the **** has that vacant and vile woman ever done that could fill four books?
That's another thing that annoys me - people who put out autobiographies before they've even finished up their careers - they're supposed to be memoirs, not a cash cow. I laughed when I found out how many England footballers were putting books out after the last world cup - words were beyond me!
Anyway, the media is probably to blame for a large part of where this country is at right now. And I'm not going to blame a specific party, but the process of Government is definitely due a large part of the blame as well, because nobody in any of the parties actually has any clue what it's like to be in the situation these kids find themselves in. And they really don't care as long as the businesses are raking in tax money.
I disagree, some people only know violence.
I gave an example of what I would do to combat the problem, it may well be the wrong one, I am just giving my view. Most in this thread have just come up with reasons as to why gang culture exists, not giving sample solutions to the problem.
My 2 solutions would be for the the police to be more heavy handed (not having to worry about the repercussions is they think its justified) and to decriminalise drugs....drug and gang culture go hand in hand, limit the money making the gang can do then you limit the gang. At least on a national scale.
Right, but surely teaching them a lesson with more violence is doing nothing productive at all. If you want to change behaviour you have to change the thinking and in order to do that you have to teach them something new, a new way of dealing with things, no?
Edit: forgot the word NOT.
The problem with putting gang members in prison is that gang culture exists in prison too. In prison grudges are formed and outside members carry out the dirty work when inmates are released. Prison (tough ones that you speak of) do nothing to stop gang behaviour.
If we're talking about the US, not really. Prison in the UK and the US focus more on punishment than rehabilitation, which whilst punishment needs to be given, we are doing so at the expense of rehabilitation. Furthermore if you do mange to rehabilitate a prisoner you need to make sure they don't slip back into that life when they leave, which is all too common.
I agree. I'm not saying that the police should do nothing in response to specific acts of violence but focusing simply on punishment does nothing to prevent it happening again. Something has to be done to prevent kids wanting to join gangs in the first place.
For kids it would work but try changing a 17-21 yr olds way of thinking when they have lived the gangster lifestyle for a few years, have made and spent a fortune, have respect and fear from their mates and a long criminal record. You can't change the mentality of some people under our current system.