It has been happening on an as needed basis for years, as the law permits and as I've already pointed out. The article is plain wrong to suggest this is the first time firearms have been available in this way. You seem to be ignoring this.
It doesn't matter if it the first or 20th time, the BBC are using this example to inform us. I don't know why you are ignoring this. It's not sanctioned or debated in parliament and is downright sneaky, I don't like it and I hope this debate shines a light on it.
Taser use is another story completely, this is about the introduction of armed response units being deployed on routine policing. This is sneaky and designed to go under the public scrutiny radar.
BTW this story is now number 1 in the BBC news hit parade - so just by posting it here someone has noticed.
It was noticed in the thread about it last month, and most people seemed to realise we've had armed police on patrol for years.
It was noticed in the thread about it last month, and most people seemed to realise we've had armed police on patrol for years.
That doesn't make it ok, it makes it worse that people are so ambivalent about armed policing, besides I don't think most people do know, hence my post. I like to think of myself as fairly well informed and I certainly knew about armed response units, more so in areas like airports and ports. I did not know ARU's as you call them often go on a street beat to fairs and rallies armed with semi automatic pistols. I for one hate seeing guns anywhere, guns mean trouble who ever has them.
Well the law says it can happen as it has done for a very long time so of course it's sanctioned. I fail to see what needs to be debated or what is sneaky about legitimately applying longstanding legislation again.
Why don't you like it, you don't seem to have explained that very well - I take it you never leave the country if it is such an issue? Even hopping over the channel to France would be a no-no, what with it being such a hellhole thanks to armed cops....
ETA: Don't get me wrong, it's a great thing that in this country we are able to manage without a necessity or desire to have all officers armed. But there's enough countries around the world that operate perfectly well with it for me to question why anyone would be so terrified by the prospect.
I shouldn't need to explain why I don't want our police to routinely armed, if you can't see why then I pity your jaded world view, it won't make us safer. You use the word "terrified" to try and manipulate my opinion, I'm not terrified I am concerned at the lack of debate and consensus.
The UK is not the only country to have a police force that is not routinely armed but you know that don't you? I go only holiday regularly and see beat cops armed and it makes me shudder and think we are so lucky we don't have to see that.
Ignoring my last paragraph then. What do you want to debate exactly? There is no move towards routine arming, this is a few hundred officers in Scotland already firearms trained, a fraction of the total there let alone in the UK as a whole, and it would be ridiculously inefficient to force them to leave their weapons at the nick and go out on patrol then fetch them if needed just to placate the paranoid.
The time to debate it would be if and when there was actually a move to routinely arm officers, not when you see a conspiracy to move in that direction that isn't there except in your mind.
If your happy with it then good luck to you, it was my aim to bring the practice out into the open (via the BBC), people are now better informed.
I shouldn't need to explain why I don't want our police to routinely armed, if you can't see why then I pity your jaded world view, it won't make us safer. You use the word "terrified" to try and manipulate my opinion, I'm not terrified I am concerned at the lack of debate and consensus.
The UK is not the only country to have a police force that is not routinely armed but you know that don't you? I go only holiday regularly and see beat cops armed and it makes me shudder and think we are so lucky we don't have to see that.
Proud to be different.
The Police are not routinely armed. Some are, and have been for years. Most other countries have fully armed forces, and people take it in their stride.
The BBC article is way off the mark. This has been going on for years in the UK in most forces. How on earth can they claim that this is the first time outside of Northern Ireland? This is merely a case of the whole of Police Scotland adopting the same policy and coming in to line with the rest of the UK.
But taser was sold to us by the police as a none lethal alternative to conventional firearms. That has now morphed into an alternative to the use of batons and incapacitant spray, how did that happen?
Also it has not been made clear on here that taser is a firearm falling under Schedule 6 of The Firearms Act 1968 and at the last count more than 14,000 officers have been trained to use it.
And CS Spray (and other incapacitants) are firearms under Section 5 of the same act. So what?
A baton is likely to do far more damage than a taser will.
I would like to see the proposal for armed police to have video cams fastracked and instigated, especially if armed patrols like this are going to be more commonplace.
..I can't remember if that suggestion was aimed at the Met only or UK wide though..
They've been commonplace for years already in most parts of the UK.
And please their not armed with machine guns, their armed with semi automatic carbines.
They're not even armed with semi automatic carbines, those will still be stored in the safe in the vehicle. They're only routinely armed with handguns.
But what about poor ickle Mark Duggan and Raoul Moat?
Sod those two, but I'd be worried if I was a Brazilian running for a tube train. Thankfully there's no underground on the West Coast of Scotland though.
Why would people need warning? It's not like they are just gonna pull a gun out on random people.
Tell that to Mr and Mrs de Menezes.
The concern that ordinary citizens have is that this is the thin edge of the wedge. Allowing armed police officers to routinely walk the streets, bearing weapons quite openly, slowly but surely familiarises the public with them and over a period of time it becomes more and more the norm until in the end every officer becomes armed.
Call it stealth arming if you like, even though it is being done in full view of the public. We can all see it happening and nothing can be done to stop it because the police and politicians will tell us that it is only being done in "important or strategic places as a necessary defence against terrorists"...... When the day comes that Ryde Esplanade is deemed strategically important enough to have coppers armed with assault weapons patrolling up and down it in armoured cars, I'll know for sure what a lot of bullshit that is.
We will, of course, be told that police officers are given extensive training..... have strict rules of engagement..... are selected from only the most responsible members of society. The answer to that is spherical and in the plural.
It's only a matter of time before more innocent people are killed and as usual, the copper who does the shooting will calmly walk away from it without a care in the world or a shred of remorse for what he's done.
And there will be plenty of lickspittle apologists ready and eager to toady up to them when they do it.
The concern that ordinary citizens have is that this is the thin edge of the wedge. Allowing armed police officers to routinely walk the streets, bearing weapons quite openly, slowly but surely familiarises the public with them and over a period of time it becomes more and more the norm until in the end every officer becomes armed.
Call it stealth arming if you like, even though it is being done in full view of the public. We can all see it happening and nothing can be done to stop it because the police and politicians will tell us that it is only being done in "important or strategic places as a necessary defence against terrorists"...... When the day comes that Ryde Esplanade is deemed strategically important enough to have coppers armed with assault weapons patrolling up and down it in armoured cars, I'll know for sure what a lot of bullshit that is.
We will, of course, be told that police officers are given extensive training..... have strict rules of engagement..... are selected from only the most responsible members of society. The answer to that is spherical and in the plural.
It's only a matter of time before more innocent people are killed and as usual, the copper who does the shooting will calmly walk away from it without a care in the world or a shred of remorse for what he's done.
And there will be plenty of lickspittle apologists ready and eager to toady up to them when they do it.
Hardly an everyday occurrence, and nothing to do with routine arming.
We wont get routine arming, and no one wants it, because it is not necessary. We do need sufficient armed Officers to respond quickly to incidents, wherever they are, so every area needs to have enough, and they have had such Officers for years.
Most of the world has fully armed police forces, and do they go round shooting innocent people at random? Why would we?
The OP will be referring to CO19, they are armed with MP5s.
Indeed, around Westminster and some London rail termini, but I used to see the odd MOD plod whilst the Royal Navy were still in residence at Greenwich.
You should all be bothered by this as the police are VERY good at killing (murdering) innocent people and getting away with it, so far only ONE copper is being done for it and that was from years ago, one person was shot dead for carrying a table leg, another Tasered for having a white stick and being blind, here in my home town a man was killed by tasser for damaging his own flat, they did it FIVE times to him, this goes on all over the place and you could be next.
Hardly an everyday occurrence, and nothing to do with routine arming.
Oh, so that makes it alright then..? I'm sure you'll say the same thing when you're burying your own child. I can hear you now, turning to your grieving wife and saying "It's alright love, it doesn't happen every day, does it..? We can't blame that nice policeman for shooting our little angel nine times through the head at point blank range when all she did was get on a train."
We wont get routine arming, and no one wants it, because it is not necessary. We do need sufficient armed Officers to respond quickly to incidents, wherever they are, so every area needs to have enough, and they have had such Officers for years.
But that is the whole crux of this discussion..... we ARE getting routinely armed police. It is happening at this very time. The drip-drip-drip tactic of slowly but surely creating a situation where the sight of armed police on the street becomes normalised to such an extent that nobody even notices it anymore.
Yes, there are armed response units and as I said in a previous message, it is a sad but necessary fact of modern life that we have to have them, but there have been too many instances where the officers who are given the most gravest of responsibilities have been found wanting in the discharge of their duty.... with lethal effect for innocent people.
Do you find that acceptable...? I suspect the answer would be yes, but I repeat the caveat above..... would you say the same thing if it happened to YOUR child. I bet you'd whistle a different tune then.
I suspect you would be happy to see routinely armed police on the streets and as long as it's other people's loved ones that are killed then that is a price you'd be prepared to pay.
You should all be bothered by this as the police are VERY good at killing (murdering) innocent people and getting away with it, so far only ONE copper is being done for it and that was from years ago, one person was shot dead for carrying a table leg, another Tasered for having a white stick and being blind, here in my home town a man was killed by tasser for damaging his own flat, they did it FIVE times to him, this goes on all over the place and you could be next.
They killed him five times???
But thanks for your warning. I am sure I'll be fine and won't be next, just like the vast majority of the population.
But that is the whole crux of this discussion..... we ARE getting routinely armed police. It is happening at this very time. The drip-drip-drip tactic of slowly but surely creating a situation where the sight of armed police on the street becomes normalised to such an extent that nobody even notices it anymore.
There are some countries in the world where police kick people's doors in at three in the morning, drag people away and execute them.
In Brazil, the police have been known to randomly shoot Favella children for no other reason than that they are vagrants.
In Argentina, tens of thousands of people just "disappeared"... taken away by the police and never seen again.
Those things happen in the world too, but would you like to see that happening here, too..? I doubt that you would.
That is very extreme. It won't happen here by routinely arming the police and anybody saying so needs to seek some help.
That's the easy, smug cop out, isn't it..? "It won't happen to me". Safety in numbers.
It'll just happen to somebody else's child so that makes it alright.
I was born and raised in a country whose police are routinely armed. I am here to tell you this. I wasn't shot as a child or adult. Neither were any of my friends or family.
Comments
It doesn't matter if it the first or 20th time, the BBC are using this example to inform us. I don't know why you are ignoring this. It's not sanctioned or debated in parliament and is downright sneaky, I don't like it and I hope this debate shines a light on it.
It was noticed in the thread about it last month, and most people seemed to realise we've had armed police on patrol for years.
That doesn't make it ok, it makes it worse that people are so ambivalent about armed policing, besides I don't think most people do know, hence my post. I like to think of myself as fairly well informed and I certainly knew about armed response units, more so in areas like airports and ports. I did not know ARU's as you call them often go on a street beat to fairs and rallies armed with semi automatic pistols. I for one hate seeing guns anywhere, guns mean trouble who ever has them.
I shouldn't need to explain why I don't want our police to routinely armed, if you can't see why then I pity your jaded world view, it won't make us safer. You use the word "terrified" to try and manipulate my opinion, I'm not terrified I am concerned at the lack of debate and consensus.
The UK is not the only country to have a police force that is not routinely armed but you know that don't you? I go only holiday regularly and see beat cops armed and it makes me shudder and think we are so lucky we don't have to see that.
Proud to be different.
If your happy with it then good luck to you, it was my aim to bring the practice out into the open (via the BBC), people are now better informed.
I must dash I hear a noise....
The Police are not routinely armed. Some are, and have been for years. Most other countries have fully armed forces, and people take it in their stride.
That's not happening here.
And CS Spray (and other incapacitants) are firearms under Section 5 of the same act. So what?
A baton is likely to do far more damage than a taser will.
No, this has been going on since before taser was introduced.
They've been commonplace for years already in most parts of the UK.
They're not even armed with semi automatic carbines, those will still be stored in the safe in the vehicle. They're only routinely armed with handguns.
I'm not talking of the usual Armed response officers.
Sod those two, but I'd be worried if I was a Brazilian running for a tube train. Thankfully there's no underground on the West Coast of Scotland though.
MOD Plod?
Tell that to Mr and Mrs de Menezes.
The concern that ordinary citizens have is that this is the thin edge of the wedge. Allowing armed police officers to routinely walk the streets, bearing weapons quite openly, slowly but surely familiarises the public with them and over a period of time it becomes more and more the norm until in the end every officer becomes armed.
Call it stealth arming if you like, even though it is being done in full view of the public. We can all see it happening and nothing can be done to stop it because the police and politicians will tell us that it is only being done in "important or strategic places as a necessary defence against terrorists"...... When the day comes that Ryde Esplanade is deemed strategically important enough to have coppers armed with assault weapons patrolling up and down it in armoured cars, I'll know for sure what a lot of bullshit that is.
We will, of course, be told that police officers are given extensive training..... have strict rules of engagement..... are selected from only the most responsible members of society. The answer to that is spherical and in the plural.
It's only a matter of time before more innocent people are killed and as usual, the copper who does the shooting will calmly walk away from it without a care in the world or a shred of remorse for what he's done.
And there will be plenty of lickspittle apologists ready and eager to toady up to them when they do it.
Hardly an everyday occurrence, and nothing to do with routine arming.
We wont get routine arming, and no one wants it, because it is not necessary. We do need sufficient armed Officers to respond quickly to incidents, wherever they are, so every area needs to have enough, and they have had such Officers for years.
Most of the world has fully armed police forces, and do they go round shooting innocent people at random? Why would we?
The OP will be referring to CO19, they are armed with MP5s.
Indeed, around Westminster and some London rail termini, but I used to see the odd MOD plod whilst the Royal Navy were still in residence at Greenwich.
But in the Met, CO19 are the "usual armed response officers"
Oh, so that makes it alright then..? I'm sure you'll say the same thing when you're burying your own child. I can hear you now, turning to your grieving wife and saying "It's alright love, it doesn't happen every day, does it..? We can't blame that nice policeman for shooting our little angel nine times through the head at point blank range when all she did was get on a train."
Sure you would.
But that is the whole crux of this discussion..... we ARE getting routinely armed police. It is happening at this very time. The drip-drip-drip tactic of slowly but surely creating a situation where the sight of armed police on the street becomes normalised to such an extent that nobody even notices it anymore.
Yes, there are armed response units and as I said in a previous message, it is a sad but necessary fact of modern life that we have to have them, but there have been too many instances where the officers who are given the most gravest of responsibilities have been found wanting in the discharge of their duty.... with lethal effect for innocent people.
Do you find that acceptable...? I suspect the answer would be yes, but I repeat the caveat above..... would you say the same thing if it happened to YOUR child. I bet you'd whistle a different tune then.
I suspect you would be happy to see routinely armed police on the streets and as long as it's other people's loved ones that are killed then that is a price you'd be prepared to pay.
There are some countries in the world where police kick people's doors in at three in the morning, drag people away and execute them.
In Brazil, the police have been known to randomly shoot Favella children for no other reason than that they are vagrants.
In Argentina, tens of thousands of people just "disappeared"... taken away by the police and never seen again.
Those things happen in the world too, but would you like to see that happening here, too..?
Just because something happens in another country, doesn't mean we have to have it here.
They killed him five times???
But thanks for your warning. I am sure I'll be fine and won't be next, just like the vast majority of the population.
That is very extreme. It won't happen here by routinely arming the police and anybody saying so needs to seek some help.
That's the easy, smug cop out, isn't it..? "It won't happen to me". Safety in numbers.
It'll just happen to somebody else's child so that makes it alright.
I was born and raised in a country whose police are routinely armed. I am here to tell you this. I wasn't shot as a child or adult. Neither were any of my friends or family.
Strange that.