The whole certication of movies is a complete farce ! kids these days "play" far more violent video games and thats the ones under 12..
The 12A and 15 certication should only be adviserable and its up to there parents who decide what they should or should not watch. sky like most satellite tv station do not have to agree tothe certication. whether its suitable or not . i seen a disney film where " a cartoon character" or who ever gets killed and thats entertainment suitable for 5 year olds. (ahh yes but its a cartoon and not "real" (but the kids does not know that do they)
It really makes you laugh to the point of wanting to be sick !
Every day kids see there parents argue and and get divorced ,there is no certication for this ,is there??
Then it comes tothe realworld of "the news" showing disasters and such on allday long . and they are not got a certication only an adviserable notice regarding "flashes".
Wake up board of censors or maybe they worried about there jobs going (they are a "quango" bythe way)
You do make a good point. OFCOM piously demand broadcasters stick to their Victorian era pre watershed regulations, whereas kids can just log onto the internet and watch all sorts of hard core excitement.
The whole certication of movies is a complete farce ! kids these days "play" far more violent video games and thats the ones under 12..
The 12A and 15 certication should only be adviserable and its up to there parents who decide what they should or should not watch. sky like most satellite tv station do not have to agree tothe certication. whether its suitable or not . i seen a disney film where " a cartoon character" or who ever gets killed and thats entertainment suitable for 5 year olds. (ahh yes but its a cartoon and not "real" (but the kids does not know that do they)
It really makes you laugh to the point of wanting to be sick !
Every day kids see there parents argue and and get divorced ,there is no certication for this ,is there??
Then it comes tothe realworld of "the news" showing disasters and such on allday long . and they are not got a certication only an adviserable notice regarding "flashes".
Wake up board of censors or maybe they worried about there jobs going (they are a "quango" bythe way)
It's not death that's the issue, it's the level of pain and sadism. People die and get injured a lot in Looney Tunes, but it's comedic and light in tone, and is presented in an unrealistic manner. It's not quite the same as Saw...
Children that play violent video games do so with their parent's consent (and presumably their participation, since most stores age restrict sales - I don't know if they're legally obliged to enforce PEGI ratings). There's nothing to stop parents letting children watch 15 and 18s, and indeed many do. The BBFC are aware of this, they aren't idiots. In many ways that's why they've gone big on information, and added the helpful BBFC insight feature to new releases (and a few old ones).
You can argue in a U, Shrek spends most of Shrek arguing with or insulting Donkey. Nobody's trying to shield kids from arguments...
The news is somewhat restrained during the daytime, you aren't likely to see anything you wouldn't see on a PG. (Also, ITV give warning for "disturbing images", presumably other broadcasters do as well).
This "it happens in real life, so it should be acceptable in every category" argument is just wrong. People get violently and bloodily stabbed to death in real life, and it gets reported on in the news, it's still not suitable for a children's film.
Channel 4 made 27 more edits. Despite this Ofcom decided the film was unsuitable for broadcast.
A film with 27 edits is unsuitable to be broadcast in that state at any time, anywhere. I don't know why network TV channels bother with films anymore.
ITV and BBC have been fairly relaxed post-watershed for years - can you actually give examples of any movies you've seen edited post-watershed on free-to-air channels recently?
I do think Channel 4's change of stance is a loss of principles. Makes them less of a channel to be taken seriously, and much more like any other boggo general entertainment channel - even acclaimed movies like Local Hero have recently been screened edited in the afternoon. They were once a channel for adults who treated their audience like adults. Goes against their original remit of being alternative and edgy now that they not only screen mainstream stuff like X-Men, but that they also make 27 (a small amount?) edits before doing so. I'm therefore much less likely to bother watching films there if I know they're likely to be bowdlerised in some way. Why bother when there are so many alternatives now?
And clearly they're not right to do it if even a pile of minor snips still make the material unsuitable in Ofcom's eyes. There are plenty of interesting movies out there they could show uncut before the watershed - leave the harder ones alone and leave them to after 9pm.
But the fact is, if they broadcast them as they are, they are then liable to an Ofcom sanction which, no one wants and they are on a huge power trip right now so pissing them off isn't an option.
If removing a few bad words and a few frames is so bad, then don't watch it on tv, by the DVD or Blu Ray.
The edits Channel 4 makes are small and have no impact at all on the flow or the story as, they edit only the words that in context are offensive under the code and they try to leave violent scenes in but remove some frames so while you still know hats going on, its not so graphic.
27 edits yes, but so small. You see 27 and think they ave hacked half the film out hen thats not the case at all!
If a few edits can be done to make a film fit for pre-watershed broadcasting, there is nothing wrong in that at all and its not because Channel 4 have lost their balls at all and you know it.
To me, it just looks like you're trying to take a dump on Channel 4!
ITV cutting movies. American Pie 2 when they last run it, i was bored and watched it.
It was the version they edited into where Stifler asks
"Can any of your idiots tell me what this f*****r's doing"
But ITV changed the f word to a re-dub using the idiot word spoken just a second before.
BBC have edited Pirates Of The Caribbean that were broadcast several times post watershed on BBC Three removing the words swearing all together.
Some of the fight scenes were also cut to reduce the level of violence. All un-needed for a post watershed broadcast.
Channel 5 cut the bad Boys movies to hell when i saw them and there was a small sound dip to remove the 'Mother' from the f words and some of the more graphic scenes of violence were cut out totally.
I *am* being down on Channel 4. Why not? They used to show movies unedited in time slots suitable for the material, or not at all. Now they merrily cut them to show them pre-watershed. Who are these screenings for? As a film fan, I certainly no longer watch edited films anywhere if I can at all avoid it. There's just no need anymore, what with so many ways of catching the full versions. To me, it's just cynical commercialisation and dumbing down of a once interesting channel. I fostered an interest in arthouse, foreign and cult cinema thanks in part to Channel 4 that stays with me to this day, but now it's not even so much that they edit films for earlier slots, it's that they show the same mainstream stuff that everyone else does.
I can't say one way or another whether the other examples you gave are accurate. But they hardly represent the mass editing of movies post-watershed by any specific channel. As I said, by far and away the bulk of them are now shown uncut after 9pm. There's simply no reason for them to any more, unless they show particularly challenging material close to the watershed. A few older prints might still be knocking around that are more edited than are required now, and a few channels might lazily prepare a pre-watershed version and show it all the time. But Ofcom very rarely get their knickers in a twist over uncut films these days - I mean, we've had Antichrist in all its hardcore glory on free-to-air Film Four with barely a whimper - why would they get upset over a few rude words?
I hope Channel 4 learn a lesson over this. Stick to post-watershed for stronger material, don't bother with token edits that please no-one, least of all Ofcom!
If a few edits can be done to make a film fit for pre-watershed broadcasting, there is nothing wrong in that at all and its not because Channel 4 have lost their balls at all and you know it.
So you agree with censorship? How sad you are.
Channel 5 cut the bad Boys movies to hell when i saw them and there was a small sound dip to remove the 'Mother' from the f words and some of the more graphic scenes of violence were cut out totally.
Yep, there's no worse word to beat the f-word than "Mother" :rolleyes:
Im against censorship if you read properly you'll see that!
But, i am also for the fact that maybe a few minor cuts to allow a more family based audience to see a film than an Ofcom sanction.
Some of us like to work and not be out of one, like id be if that was the case!
8pm - 12 rated films allowed to be shown.
9pm - 15 rated films allowed to be shown.
10pm - 18 rated films allowed to be show.
Also Channel 5 have been broadcasting 12 rated films and swearing at 1pm before.
It wouldn't be so bad if Ofcom actually had a rule that said that, but even their Guidance, let along the official Rules, are vague in the extreme. They simply talk about a "gradual transition" after the watershed, without specifing what that means. Sometimes they let a broadcaster off for swearing or nudity a few minutes after 9, othertimes there is an expectation of restraint at 10pm, 11pm, even up to midnight.
It is a basic principle of Law that the rules should be knowable in advance.
Unfortunately the result is self-censorship as broadcasters play safe.
It wouldn't be so bad if Ofcom actually had a rule that said that, but even their Guidance, let along the official Rules, are vague in the extreme. They simply talk about a "gradual transition" after the watershed, without specifing what that means. Sometimes they let a broadcaster off for swearing or nudity a few minutes after 9, othertimes there is an expectation of restraint at 10pm, 11pm, even up to midnight.
It is a basic principle of Law that the rules should be knowable in advance.
Unfortunately the result is self-censorship as broadcasters play safe.
I'd love to know how Channel 4 got away with swearing in Homeland at 9:04, but BBC2 got in trouble for airing Pulp Fiction at 9:10..... Ofcom said the audience would be aware of what to expect from Homeland because it was on it's 4th episode. But somehow the audience are too thick to know what Tarantino films are like?
I'd love to know how Channel 4 got away with swearing in Homeland at 9:04, but BBC2 got in trouble for airing Pulp Fiction at 9:10..... Ofcom said the audience would be aware of what to expect from Homeland because it was on it's 4th episode. But somehow the audience are too thick to know what Tarantino films are like?
Typical example of OFCOM over reaching itself.
Surely every parent is aware of the watershed. If they don't want their kids to come into contact with swearing and violence on tv then its up to the parent to ensure their kid is not watching tv after 9pm. OFCOM is nanny state regulation.
It wouldn't be so bad if Ofcom actually had a rule that said that, but even their Guidance, let along the official Rules, are vague in the extreme. They simply talk about a "gradual transition" after the watershed, without specifing what that means. Sometimes they let a broadcaster off for swearing or nudity a few minutes after 9, othertimes there is an expectation of restraint at 10pm, 11pm, even up to midnight.
It is a basic principle of Law that the rules should be knowable in advance.
Unfortunately the result is self-censorship as broadcasters play safe.
It's been a while since I've looked at Ofcom bulletins, but I do seem to recall them being rather arbitrary as you say when it came to deciding whether something was fine immediately at the watershed.
They seemed to apply this transition phase particularly where something family orientated is aired immediately before the watershed. I can see their point, but given that you can go from Sky One to Sky Atlantic at 9PM just by pressing up on the planner twice and go from dancing show to an HBO drama I think rather redundant.
It did amuse me when they applied that rule to an adult channel. I doubt many families sit around at 8-9PM watching Babestation or whatever it was. If it is families accidentally tuning in they are concerned about then letting off channels that show violence, nudity, sex and the rest immediately after watershed doesn't fit.
I sometimes thinks that Ofcom are more vindictive of some channels more than others.
Comments
You do make a good point. OFCOM piously demand broadcasters stick to their Victorian era pre watershed regulations, whereas kids can just log onto the internet and watch all sorts of hard core excitement.
Children that play violent video games do so with their parent's consent (and presumably their participation, since most stores age restrict sales - I don't know if they're legally obliged to enforce PEGI ratings). There's nothing to stop parents letting children watch 15 and 18s, and indeed many do. The BBFC are aware of this, they aren't idiots. In many ways that's why they've gone big on information, and added the helpful BBFC insight feature to new releases (and a few old ones).
You can argue in a U, Shrek spends most of Shrek arguing with or insulting Donkey. Nobody's trying to shield kids from arguments...
The news is somewhat restrained during the daytime, you aren't likely to see anything you wouldn't see on a PG. (Also, ITV give warning for "disturbing images", presumably other broadcasters do as well).
This "it happens in real life, so it should be acceptable in every category" argument is just wrong. People get violently and bloodily stabbed to death in real life, and it gets reported on in the news, it's still not suitable for a children's film.
A film with 27 edits is unsuitable to be broadcast in that state at any time, anywhere. I don't know why network TV channels bother with films anymore.
But the fact is, if they broadcast them as they are, they are then liable to an Ofcom sanction which, no one wants and they are on a huge power trip right now so pissing them off isn't an option.
If removing a few bad words and a few frames is so bad, then don't watch it on tv, by the DVD or Blu Ray.
The edits Channel 4 makes are small and have no impact at all on the flow or the story as, they edit only the words that in context are offensive under the code and they try to leave violent scenes in but remove some frames so while you still know hats going on, its not so graphic.
27 edits yes, but so small. You see 27 and think they ave hacked half the film out hen thats not the case at all!
If a few edits can be done to make a film fit for pre-watershed broadcasting, there is nothing wrong in that at all and its not because Channel 4 have lost their balls at all and you know it.
To me, it just looks like you're trying to take a dump on Channel 4!
ITV cutting movies. American Pie 2 when they last run it, i was bored and watched it.
It was the version they edited into where Stifler asks
"Can any of your idiots tell me what this f*****r's doing"
But ITV changed the f word to a re-dub using the idiot word spoken just a second before.
BBC have edited Pirates Of The Caribbean that were broadcast several times post watershed on BBC Three removing the words swearing all together.
Some of the fight scenes were also cut to reduce the level of violence. All un-needed for a post watershed broadcast.
Channel 5 cut the bad Boys movies to hell when i saw them and there was a small sound dip to remove the 'Mother' from the f words and some of the more graphic scenes of violence were cut out totally.
I can't say one way or another whether the other examples you gave are accurate. But they hardly represent the mass editing of movies post-watershed by any specific channel. As I said, by far and away the bulk of them are now shown uncut after 9pm. There's simply no reason for them to any more, unless they show particularly challenging material close to the watershed. A few older prints might still be knocking around that are more edited than are required now, and a few channels might lazily prepare a pre-watershed version and show it all the time. But Ofcom very rarely get their knickers in a twist over uncut films these days - I mean, we've had Antichrist in all its hardcore glory on free-to-air Film Four with barely a whimper - why would they get upset over a few rude words?
I hope Channel 4 learn a lesson over this. Stick to post-watershed for stronger material, don't bother with token edits that please no-one, least of all Ofcom!
So you agree with censorship? How sad you are.
Yep, there's no worse word to beat the f-word than "Mother" :rolleyes:
Im against censorship if you read properly you'll see that!
But, i am also for the fact that maybe a few minor cuts to allow a more family based audience to see a film than an Ofcom sanction.
Some of us like to work and not be out of one, like id be if that was the case!
As for the 2nd part to your post. Eh?
It wouldn't be so bad if Ofcom actually had a rule that said that, but even their Guidance, let along the official Rules, are vague in the extreme. They simply talk about a "gradual transition" after the watershed, without specifing what that means. Sometimes they let a broadcaster off for swearing or nudity a few minutes after 9, othertimes there is an expectation of restraint at 10pm, 11pm, even up to midnight.
It is a basic principle of Law that the rules should be knowable in advance.
Unfortunately the result is self-censorship as broadcasters play safe.
Typical example of OFCOM over reaching itself.
Surely every parent is aware of the watershed. If they don't want their kids to come into contact with swearing and violence on tv then its up to the parent to ensure their kid is not watching tv after 9pm. OFCOM is nanny state regulation.
It's been a while since I've looked at Ofcom bulletins, but I do seem to recall them being rather arbitrary as you say when it came to deciding whether something was fine immediately at the watershed.
They seemed to apply this transition phase particularly where something family orientated is aired immediately before the watershed. I can see their point, but given that you can go from Sky One to Sky Atlantic at 9PM just by pressing up on the planner twice and go from dancing show to an HBO drama I think rather redundant.
It did amuse me when they applied that rule to an adult channel. I doubt many families sit around at 8-9PM watching Babestation or whatever it was. If it is families accidentally tuning in they are concerned about then letting off channels that show violence, nudity, sex and the rest immediately after watershed doesn't fit.
I sometimes thinks that Ofcom are more vindictive of some channels more than others.