Big business will not let us pull out the EU. They have profited too much from the cheap labour. In this I do feel sympathy for Cameron. He, and Labour before him, have to find spurious reasons not to have a referendum because big business won't let them.
Some individual businesses may be profitable, but overall we make a huge loss by being in the EU.
Economically, it makes no sense whatsoever to be part of it.
"We will reverse Scottish and Welsh devolution" - because that would be SO popular with the locals. Oh, and giving Monmouthshire back to England as well.
This is a funny one.
There's no doubt there's a load of Monmouthians (if that's a word) who'd prefer to be in England and be English (I met one only recently, born and bred in Monmouthshire, he considers himself English, not Welsh).
However, would England want Monmouthshire? Would it want an extra county?
YouGov is full of UKIP nutters>:( if you read the Opigram pages.
It will be interesting however if UKIP only make second as they increasingly claim to be drawing support from all three main parties. Second would actually be a failure for them and (hopefully) mark the turn of the tide.:)
Sorry?
You gov is run by Peter Keller who is the hubby of the never ever elected Baroness Ashton the EU foreign minister.
How much more pro EU do you want?:D
Their polls are sampled in the usual way to be representative of the electorate. So to say it's packed full of UKIP nutters as you so tactlessly put it is nonsense.
Big business will not let us pull out the EU. They have profited too much from the cheap labour. In this I do feel sympathy for Cameron. He, and Labour before him, have to find spurious reasons not to have a referendum because big business won't let them.
Its not just big business. Its land owners claiming millions in agricultural subsidies for doing nothing. (set aside). Given that those with large estates are to be found in both houses of parliament on all sides of the political divide. As well as many political donors and establishment figures. It's not hard to see why the establishment is pro eu. They stand to lose billions if we exited the eu.
Its not just big business. Its land owners claiming millions in agricultural subsidies for doing nothing. (set aside). Given that those with large estates are to be found in both houses of parliament on all sides of the political divide. As well as many political donors and establishment figures. It's not hard to see why the establishment is pro eu. They stand to lose billions if we exited the eu.
Do you think we would have no farm subsidies if we weren't in the EU?
Do you think we would have no farm subsidies if we weren't in the EU?
We'd certainly get none from the EU. The government could choose to subsidise it themselves but there's no real need to. Land owners are sitting on huge piles of cash. We have the most high tech agricultural system in the world. Ironically its down to estate managers buying half a million pounds worth of machinery to keep the cash away from the taxman. It's all there we could use our farms to farm and not need them subsidised. But that involves a huge cut in income for the land owners.
My wider point is I often hear that if we left the EU we'd lose this or that subsidy, research funding, etc
But the fact is we had most of those things prior to joining the EU. And would again.
In reality the UK receives no subsidies from the EU as it is a net contributor to its budget and I agree there is no inherent reason why on leaving the EU any present subsidies would automatically disappear.
In reality the UK receives no subsidies from the EU as it is a net contributor to its budget and I agree there is no inherent reason why on leaving the EU any present subsidies would automatically disappear.
It's how it's all packaged that's the important thing. Follow the money. If the government took tax revenue from the British taxpayer and paid it to an estate owner. (the earl of Canarvon for example. Somebody who isn't short of money) All that estate owner had to do was fill in a form and do no actual farming. Essentially claiming money for simply waking up in the morning. The government of the day would never get away with it.
On the other hand: If the government takes taxpayers money and gives it to the EU and the eu then give it to the land owner. Nobody bats an eyelid.
Exactly the same process is taking place with the same requirements, procedures and outcome. But because it's done under the flag of the eu, nobody cares.
There's no doubt there's a load of Monmouthians (if that's a word) who'd prefer to be in England and be English (I met one only recently, born and bred in Monmouthshire, he considers himself English, not Welsh).
However, would England want Monmouthshire? Would it want an extra county?
If the historic county of Monmouthshire as existed until 1972 was to go to England then it would be a case of welcoming Ebbw Vale, Pontypool and even parts of urban Cardiff to England. Monmouthshire was always de facto Wales, hence the regularly used term Wales and Monmouthshire.
If the historic county of Monmouthshire as existed until 1972 was to go to England then it would be a case of welcoming Ebbw Vale, Pontypool and even parts of urban Cardiff to England. Monmouthshire was always de facto Wales, hence the regularly used term Wales and Monmouthshire.
I was very surprised to hear this person say that he considers himself English. The actual phrase he said was "we're all English anyway", when referring to Monmouthshire. I'm sure that would go down well on the terraces of Eugene Cross Park.
They came second last time, so it wouldn't make much difference.
It depends on how the rest of Europe votes. The eu parliament is run by coalitions. The coalition UKIP belong to is one of the smaller ones. But. If UKIP return the same number of meps. It's not a failure. Last time there wasn't as much Euroscepticism as there is now. We've had the euro crisis, Greek bailout after bailout and the admittance of Bulgaria and Romania. If the equivalent party to UKIP in Germany or France for example, does as well as UKIP is expected to do here. Then the balance of power shifts towards UKIP and their coalition.
You gov is run by Peter Keller who is the hubby of the never ever elected Baroness Ashton the EU foreign minister.
How much more pro EU do you want?:D
Their polls are sampled in the usual way to be representative of the electorate. So to say it's packed full of UKIP nutters as you so tactlessly put it is nonsense.
but the question in that poll was a leading one:
"The European elections are held under a proportional voting system which gives smaller parties a better chance of winning seats than in general elections.
If there were an election to the European Parliament held tomorrow, which party would you vote for?"
They may have well just gone the whole hog and added 'like UKIP' after "smaller parties". It didn't ask 'which party will you vote for at the European election?' as it should've done...it was a question designed to nudge people towards saying UKIP.
On another point, interesting to see 3% of people in London saying they'll vote SNP/Plaid Cymru!
but the question in that poll was a leading one:
"The European elections are held under a proportional voting system which gives smaller parties a better chance of winning seats than in general elections.
If there were an election to the European Parliament held tomorrow, which party would you vote for?"
They may have well just gone the whole hog and added 'like UKIP' after "smaller parties". It didn't ask 'which party will you vote for at the European election?' as it should've done...it was a question designed to nudge people towards saying UKIP.
On another point, interesting to see 3% of people in London saying they'll vote SNP/Plaid Cymru!
The European elections are one where every vote counts - most people live in safe seats for council elections and general elections so their vote is basically pointless.
So alternatively its another way of saying 'which party do you really support'. Hence the Greens getting 5% - when in general elections they would probably feel forced to vote Labour as the lesser of two evils. So it may be actually more representative of people's true beliefs rather than the narrow choice they are forced into under FPTP.
PS A lot of people in London have second homes - or work there during the week and live somewhere else at weekends (their true home). So its not impossible that people polled in London may actually vote in Scotland or Wales in May.
I think many people treat the Euro elections like a By-election, a chance to protest at whoever is in power at the time.
The sad thing is that if a party like UKIP do well they will automatically claim that it will also happen at the next General Election and talk up how well they will do.
The difference being people take a General election far more seriously.
Absolutely, and if you can't tell the Tory / FibDem / Labour candidate apart your vote for someone different again. Can they really not see this coming....?
We'd certainly get none from the EU. The government could choose to subsidise it themselves but there's no real need to. Land owners are sitting on huge piles of cash. We have the most high tech agricultural system in the world. Ironically its down to estate managers buying half a million pounds worth of machinery to keep the cash away from the taxman. It's all there we could use our farms to farm and not need them subsidised. But that involves a huge cut in income for the land owners.
The reason Thatcher negotiate the UK rebate was because the UK is not an agricultural based society and the farm subsidies we received are minuscule compared with what other countries are getting.
Our net payments to the EU is over £10 billion even with the rebate and all and any returning investment or subsidies taken into account.
Coupled with that we make a huge net loss trading with the EU.
There does not appear to be any advantage to being inside the EU at all and a hell of a lot of minuses.
You gov is run by Peter Keller who is the hubby of the never ever elected Baroness Ashton the EU foreign minister.
How much more pro EU do you want?:D
Their polls are sampled in the usual way to be representative of the electorate. So to say it's packed full of UKIP nutters as you so tactlessly put it is nonsense.
If you actually bother to look at the YouGov site, there is a running poll by members showing roughly the same voting shares. If you then read some of the loony stuff on the Opigram pages, you will see that the UKIP nutters are out in force. What is interesting - for all the loony ravings on there and ConHome - is that UKIp run second. Ex hypothesi, the majority are voting for parties, which generally wish to stay in - consequently, Farage is also lying.
Coupled with that we make a huge net loss trading with the EU.
That is another UKIp canard - the trade imbalance would remain the same as it is our own doing, unless of course you are advocating protectionism on a scale, which would get us slung out of the WTO.
That is another UKIp canard - the trade imbalance would remain the same as it is our own doing, unless of course you are advocating protectionism on a scale, which would get us slung out of the WTO.
So are you saying that trade will remain the same after we leave the eu ?
As it happens I agree with you, the remaining eu states are hardly likely to want to lose all the business they receive from the uk.
But i think your confused, it is the pro eu camp that uses this canard not ukip.
Comments
Some individual businesses may be profitable, but overall we make a huge loss by being in the EU.
Economically, it makes no sense whatsoever to be part of it.
This is a funny one.
There's no doubt there's a load of Monmouthians (if that's a word) who'd prefer to be in England and be English (I met one only recently, born and bred in Monmouthshire, he considers himself English, not Welsh).
However, would England want Monmouthshire? Would it want an extra county?
Sorry?
You gov is run by Peter Keller who is the hubby of the never ever elected Baroness Ashton the EU foreign minister.
How much more pro EU do you want?:D
Their polls are sampled in the usual way to be representative of the electorate. So to say it's packed full of UKIP nutters as you so tactlessly put it is nonsense.
Its not just big business. Its land owners claiming millions in agricultural subsidies for doing nothing. (set aside). Given that those with large estates are to be found in both houses of parliament on all sides of the political divide. As well as many political donors and establishment figures. It's not hard to see why the establishment is pro eu. They stand to lose billions if we exited the eu.
Do you think we would have no farm subsidies if we weren't in the EU?
Who knows but at least the UK would decide if it did or not.
We'd certainly get none from the EU. The government could choose to subsidise it themselves but there's no real need to. Land owners are sitting on huge piles of cash. We have the most high tech agricultural system in the world. Ironically its down to estate managers buying half a million pounds worth of machinery to keep the cash away from the taxman. It's all there we could use our farms to farm and not need them subsidised. But that involves a huge cut in income for the land owners.
I know.
My wider point is I often hear that if we left the EU we'd lose this or that subsidy, research funding, etc
But the fact is we had most of those things prior to joining the EU. And would again.
In reality the UK receives no subsidies from the EU as it is a net contributor to its budget and I agree there is no inherent reason why on leaving the EU any present subsidies would automatically disappear.
It's how it's all packaged that's the important thing. Follow the money. If the government took tax revenue from the British taxpayer and paid it to an estate owner. (the earl of Canarvon for example. Somebody who isn't short of money) All that estate owner had to do was fill in a form and do no actual farming. Essentially claiming money for simply waking up in the morning. The government of the day would never get away with it.
On the other hand: If the government takes taxpayers money and gives it to the EU and the eu then give it to the land owner. Nobody bats an eyelid.
Exactly the same process is taking place with the same requirements, procedures and outcome. But because it's done under the flag of the eu, nobody cares.
UKIP is in a shambles.
At the 2009 EU parliamentary elections, UKIP had 13 MEPs. Since then, 6 of these UKIP MEPs have either resigned, been expelled or defected.
Indeed, UKIP have the worse attenance record in the EU parliament.
UKIP are waste of time, a political farce and a organisation disaster.
If you want to leave the EU, vote for the Conservative Party.
If the historic county of Monmouthshire as existed until 1972 was to go to England then it would be a case of welcoming Ebbw Vale, Pontypool and even parts of urban Cardiff to England. Monmouthshire was always de facto Wales, hence the regularly used term Wales and Monmouthshire.
I was very surprised to hear this person say that he considers himself English. The actual phrase he said was "we're all English anyway", when referring to Monmouthshire. I'm sure that would go down well on the terraces of Eugene Cross Park.
They came second last time, so it wouldn't make much difference.
It depends on how the rest of Europe votes. The eu parliament is run by coalitions. The coalition UKIP belong to is one of the smaller ones. But. If UKIP return the same number of meps. It's not a failure. Last time there wasn't as much Euroscepticism as there is now. We've had the euro crisis, Greek bailout after bailout and the admittance of Bulgaria and Romania. If the equivalent party to UKIP in Germany or France for example, does as well as UKIP is expected to do here. Then the balance of power shifts towards UKIP and their coalition.
It's heading that way anyway, HMRC keep reducing the guideline amount.
So much for the so called 'free market'.
but the question in that poll was a leading one:
"The European elections are held under a proportional voting system which gives smaller parties a better chance of winning seats than in general elections.
If there were an election to the European Parliament held tomorrow, which party would you vote for?"
They may have well just gone the whole hog and added 'like UKIP' after "smaller parties". It didn't ask 'which party will you vote for at the European election?' as it should've done...it was a question designed to nudge people towards saying UKIP.
On another point, interesting to see 3% of people in London saying they'll vote SNP/Plaid Cymru!
The European elections are one where every vote counts - most people live in safe seats for council elections and general elections so their vote is basically pointless.
So alternatively its another way of saying 'which party do you really support'. Hence the Greens getting 5% - when in general elections they would probably feel forced to vote Labour as the lesser of two evils. So it may be actually more representative of people's true beliefs rather than the narrow choice they are forced into under FPTP.
PS A lot of people in London have second homes - or work there during the week and live somewhere else at weekends (their true home). So its not impossible that people polled in London may actually vote in Scotland or Wales in May.
Absolutely, and if you can't tell the Tory / FibDem / Labour candidate apart your vote for someone different again. Can they really not see this coming....?
The reason Thatcher negotiate the UK rebate was because the UK is not an agricultural based society and the farm subsidies we received are minuscule compared with what other countries are getting.
Our net payments to the EU is over £10 billion even with the rebate and all and any returning investment or subsidies taken into account.
Coupled with that we make a huge net loss trading with the EU.
There does not appear to be any advantage to being inside the EU at all and a hell of a lot of minuses.
TUSC, since they've said they wont take their seats if they get any. Of course, they're a bit left wing for most UKIP voters...
If you actually bother to look at the YouGov site, there is a running poll by members showing roughly the same voting shares. If you then read some of the loony stuff on the Opigram pages, you will see that the UKIP nutters are out in force. What is interesting - for all the loony ravings on there and ConHome - is that UKIp run second. Ex hypothesi, the majority are voting for parties, which generally wish to stay in - consequently, Farage is also lying.
That is another UKIp canard - the trade imbalance would remain the same as it is our own doing, unless of course you are advocating protectionism on a scale, which would get us slung out of the WTO.
So are you saying that trade will remain the same after we leave the eu ?
As it happens I agree with you, the remaining eu states are hardly likely to want to lose all the business they receive from the uk.
But i think your confused, it is the pro eu camp that uses this canard not ukip.