- Not made Dean the rapist
- explored deans mental state
-keep Johnny around and keep that Ben story going on and he helps Ben come to terms with it
-brought Zsa zsa back for the Tina/tosh storyline and have her reconnect with Tina after the reveal
-explored lees anger and not have him with Whitney
-have Stan and Cora actually marry
-keep mick as the loveable dad (but that's ruined now and now he is all about himself)
-give the adult ones equal screentime to the rest if the cast
-make them more social and build friendships. Linda, Tina and Johnny were fine
By all means, have the rape storyline but have somebody
a) from outside the family
b) who can act.
Then we can focus on Shirley being Mick's mother, which has been completely sidelined.
I also wouldn't have had the Tosh and Tina story - Tosh was too one dimensional for us to care about the abuse in her past (unlike, for example, Kirsty on Corrie, who was a much better develoepd character, despite seeming to have no redeeming qualities). I like Tina now, but for the months she was in that relationship she was like an overgrown baby.
Make Lee Lucy's murderer. I know people think there's a Carter overload but the reveal that it was Bobby, pretty much by accident, was such an anti-climax. If it had been Lee, and he had been caught, it would get rid of a character that isn't really working (not the actor's fault) and given all sorts of opportunities for drama between the families involved. (Not 100% sure about this one as with the Vic as the heart of the Square, would people want to go in there with the landlord's son the murderer of a Beale?!).
2014
- Explore the Shirley/Mick relationship, leading to the reveal at Christmas.
- Explore Lee's anger, he begins hitting Whitney and eventually goes to counselling.
- Stan's death on Boxing Day.
- Explore Johnny and Nancy a little more.
- Tina/Tosh/Sonia
2015
- Dean returns for Stan's funeral and then the rape happens.
- Johnny/Ben relationship.
- Babe/Sylvie
-Not made Dean a rapist, instead exploring his feelings of loneliness and wanting to loved
-Not made Mick Shirley's son
-Probably written out Babe for good
-If there was a family secret, perhaps Irene Raymond could've been Shirley's estranged sister (Irene's maiden name was Carter) so there'd be a reason for her and Terry to return to EE
-Brought back either Zsa Zsa or Carly
-Not introduce Buster
- Explore Mick and Shirley - leading to Christmas reveal, by that point Sylvie would have been found and would be the one to inadvertently let slip over Christmas dinner. Her line 'not my boy, Shirley's boy - but don't tell anyone' would have been a perfect duff duff. Explore the aftermath of Shirley/Mick, Sylvie's relationship with her children and introduction of Buster. (this parentage story has now been sidelined, unfortunately because Shirley is a longstanding character and I think it should have been done separately so we could fully explore it)
- Stan's cancer revealed and death in the beginning of 2015. Integrate Cora into the Carter unit.
- Dean maybe becoming obsessed with Mick once he finds out he is his brother and trying to muscle his way into the family. I wouldn't have made him a rapist.
- Explore Babe secrets. And find out more about the Carter fire.
Mid 2015
- Linda's rape but by a character outside of the family - maybe from a different family on the square or a punter. No pregnancy.
- Explore Nancy and Tamwar.
- Look at Lee's anger, maybe explore PTSD - let him loose on Linda's rapist - who would not have been Dean - how far would he go?
- Explore Shirley and Buster as a couple and their backstory.
Amongst all this I would integrate the Carters into the square more - Lee and Nancy with the younger crowd, Buster with Vincent or a rivalry with Phil, Linda with Sharon and Mick with the lads - Ian/Alfie. Shirley already has lots of links throughout the square and I would have liked to have seen them more - a friendship with Carol? See more of her with Denise/Kim/Patrick, Phil frenemieship.
- Not had Dean rape Linda, but someone else unrelated to the family.
- Not had Linda fall pregnant after being raped.
- Still had the 'Shirley is Mick's mum' storyline, but changed it so Dean and Mick were at loggerheads as they rubbed each other up the wrong way and then found out that Shirley was Mick's mum. They could've dealt with the aftermath and then done a storyline about Dean and what is going on in his mind etc. and how each character coped with the reveal. Buster could've come in once the dust had settled and M&D wanted to know about their father.
- Give Lee and Nancy storylines that take them away from the family. Let them act their age!
I think the problem started when a barman summoned £450,000 in cash to buy a pub on Christmas day 2013.
The Carters should have been a slow start. Ironically the Carters are the only DTC characters not to have been dripfed into the show. They came with a bang and stayed. Nancy and Lee's first introductions are the only ones that washed with me.
But to answer the question this is what I would have done.
Mick shouldn't have been put on a pedestal from the get go (I'm very aware this was to appease Danny Dyer, but no actor should be pandered to like that. It's embarrasing)
Some characters are born great (legacy characters I.E Martin Fowler, Ben Mitchell, The Butcher Brats, The Beale kids etc), some characters achieve greatness (long-running characters I.E Kathy, Dot, Ian, Phil ) and some characters have greatness thrust upon them like Mick Carter.
What should have happened is Mick should have been down and out and came to Walford to reconnect with Shirley.
We should have watched the dynamic between Mick, Shirley and Tina first. Then have Linda come looking for Mick.
They should have slowly worked their way up to owning the Vic before throwing in the kids and the oldies.
I don't like the fact that they came in and just took over - characters should be made to earn the respect of the viewers.
I almost feel like the Vic belongs to the fans and Mick and Linda didnt ask the fans if they could have it - they just came in and snatched it - if that makes sense.
I think the problem started when a barman summoned £450,000 in cash to buy a pub on Christmas day 2013.
The Carters should have been a slow start. Ironically the Carters are the only DTC characters not to have been dripfed into the show. They came with a bang and stayed. Nancy and Lee's first introductions are the only ones that washed with me.
But to answer the question this is what I would have done.
Mick shouldn't have been put on a pedestal from the get go (I'm very aware this was to appease Danny Dyer, but no actor should be pandered to like that. It's embarrasing)
Some characters are born great (legacy characters I.E Martin Fowler, Ben Mitchell, The Butcher Brats, The Beale kids etc), some characters achieve greatness (long-running characters I.E Kathy, Dot, Ian, Phil ) and some characters have greatness thrust upon them like Mick Carter.
What should have happened is Mick should have been down and out and came to Walford to reconnect with Shirley.
We should have watched the dynamic between Mick, Shirley and Tina first.
Then Linda should have come looking for Mick. They should have slowly worked their way up to owning the Vic and then throw in the kids and the oldies.
I don't like the fact that they came in and just took over - characters should be made to earn the respect of the viewers.
I almost feel like the Vic belongs to the fans and Mick and Linda didnt ask the fans if they could have it they just came in and snatched it - if that makes sense.
It does make sense and I completely agree with this whole post, esp the BIB and the about Mick/Danny Dyer!
The reason it feels like a Carter take over for some is because they all came in together and became the central family overnight, this should have happened slowly and gradually built into them buying into the Vic.
Shirley/Mick/Tina should have been explored first, then Linda comes in with one kid preferably, then the oldies and Buster.
It does make sense and I completely agree with this whole post, esp the BIB and the about Mick/Danny Dyer!
The reason it feels like a Carter take over for some is because they all came in together and became the central family overnight, this should have happened slowly and gradually built into them buying into the Vic.
Shirley/Mick/Tina should have been explored first, then Linda comes in with one kid preferably, then the oldies and Buster.
Exactly! It's almost as if we've been given no choice but to like them. This also ties back into the way Mick and Linda's characters are designed - they are too perfect. Even their flaws are perfect. For example Mick's temper is his flaw, but we only ever see it when he is perfectly in the right for getting angry. Linda's over-protectiveness is one of her flaws, but it's only because she cares about her family.
I think the Carter takeover happened mainly to refresh the show and take the focus away from the characters that had been ruined during a tiresome few years. So I completely understand why it happened. If it had to happen I would just say I would have preffered them not moving into the Vic straight away it was too much of a desperate jump-the-shark moment
No repeats of Slater stories
No Xmas rape reveals
Less pushing of Shirley to the front of the show. Gone from one extreme to the other
Lee comes in later, develops a love hate relationship with Shabbers (no sex) then gets killed on duty.
Less 'Ooh look its Danny Dyer' scenes.
Less repetitive meandering scenes.
Exactly! It's almost as if we've been given no choice but to like them. This also ties back into the way Mick and Linda's characters are designed - they are too perfect. Even their flaws are perfect. For example Mick's temper is his flaw, but we only ever see it when he is perfectly in the right for getting angry. Linda's over-protectiveness is one of her flaws, but it's only because she cares about her family.
I think the Carter takeover happened mainly to refresh the show and take the focus away from the characters that had been ruined during a tiresome few years. So I completely understand why it happened. If it had to happen I would just say I would have preffered them not moving into the Vic straight away it was too much of a desperate jump-the-shark moment
I agree. Spot on, as DTC's fave characters, Mick and Linda have been written as 'perfect' and like you say, even their flaws are perfect. They feel quite one dimensional to me, and don't really have an identity because they spend so much time writing them as the perfect couple, the perfect people, not treading on any toes unless it is deemed acceptable. That is what frustrates me about them. It does feel like they are painted out as 'saints' in order to keep the viewer rooting for them. Mick is driving me up the wall with his sarky comments at the moment, though. And have you noticed that most of the promo for the show features Mick and Linda prominently?
I agree, I understand the point of bringing fresh blood into the show but I'm not 100% on board with how they were brought in. I would happily have seen Mick and Tina come in first - I miss the fun siblingship between Shirley and Tina and the soft, loving relationship between Shirley and Mick.
I agree. Spot on, as DTC's fave characters, Mick and Linda have been written as 'perfect' and like you say, even their flaws are perfect. They feel quite one dimensional to me, and don't really have an identity because they spend so much time writing them as the perfect couple, the perfect people, not treading on any toes unless it is deemed acceptable. That is what frustrates me about them. It does feel like they are painted out as 'saints' in order to keep the viewer rooting for them. Mick is driving me up the wall with his sarky comments at the moment, though. And have you noticed that most of the promo for the show features Mick and Linda prominently?
I agree, I understand the point of bringing fresh blood into the show but I'm not 100% on board with how they were brought in. I would happily have seen Mick and Tina come in first - I miss the fun siblingship between Shirley and Tina and the soft, loving relationship between Shirley and Mick.
Yep absolutely.
Bib - They are the new faces of the show atm. They have been given the most popular pub on TV. They featured in the most episodes last year. They were put forward for every award.
They even starred as Danny and Sandy in GreaseEnders , while Kat and Alfie danced behind them trying their best to get a look-in .
You've just got to laugh about it really. After all we must all be forever indebted to the Carters for turning the show around.
It does make sense and I completely agree with this whole post, esp the BIB and the about Mick/Danny Dyer!
The reason it feels like a Carter take over for some is because they all came in together and became the central family overnight, this should have happened slowly and gradually built into them buying into the Vic.
Shirley/Mick/Tina should have been explored first, then Linda comes in with one kid preferably, then the oldies and Buster.
I can totally see your point but actually I liked the way they arrived with a bang. In the real world people don't slowly infiltrate a new community. Pubs change hands and completely new teams come in and take over. Maybe there should have been a little more reluctance from the locals to accept them - rather than Mick being instantly accepted as the heart of the community. In my experience it takes a while for new owners/management to win over the regulars!
If we went back to June that's when they were stomp opulent and loveable characters. After August is when they went ott and awful but prior to that is was getting to know them with nothing that big between them aside the coming out storyline.
I wouldn't have done the rape storyline with Dean/Linda or have Shirley revealed as Mick's mum. Neither of those stories have helped the Carters as a family.
Not had Dean rape Linda but instead have him become obsessed with Mick and linda, copy Mick(like Lachlan/David on Emmerdale) and stalk Limda
Not made Mick Shirley's son but kept him as her brother and Dean as Mick's nephew.
Kept Mick as loveable family man and developed his friendships with Ian/Alfie
Not had Linda pregnant (3 children are quite enough)
Brought Buster in and coupled him with Shirley, and have him revealed as Dean's dad but not Mick's.
Kept Johnny, coupled him with Ben and axed Nancy
Kept Lee and given him more to do.
I didn't like all that malarkey between Dean going missing and the ambiguity of did Mick kill him, and Nancy thinking that he did it. I don't think it was necessary and was a bit Sunset Beach / corny, and over-egging the pudding.
I don't like Mick saying 'off his nut' in over-exaggerated Cockney in what seems like every single episode. I also don't like the over-use of his rhyming slang, sometimes I have no clue on some of the words and have to google them after. I don't think it adds anything to the character or the programme and can be an irritant.
The repetition of the 'I'm your muvva! bit was also over-egging the pudding. I find Shirley and Buster's siding with Dean over Mick a bit weird, it's been done of course to create division and drama, but is it actually believable?
And that business with Stan wanting Tina / his family to end his life didn't make sense when he was perfectly capable of doing it himself.
How would I rewrite them? I wouldn't shoehorn them into every single episode. The actors, with the exception of Linda Henry, Timothy West and Kellie Bright, are not strong enough to warrant it.
I'd have written an exit for them. The Carters drive off a cliff and the car explodes. You even see their charred bodies to confirm they are all dead and can never return to the show.
I think I'd like the ability to go back to 2013 to re-write the Carters.
I'd keep the rape plot - it is the reason that Matt di Angelo was asked back - and keep the original idea of Shirley, Tina and Mick being siblings. DTC gave an interview where he said they were watching back one of the early scenes and he thought Linda Henry played it as if she were Mick's mum so that's what they went with.
I'd start by re-introducing Dean several months before any of the others; he'd arrive to visit Denise and be more like the relatively happy, sweet Deano from before Kevin died. That night as Dean leaves the B&B, he accidently bumps into Shirley and they have an awkward conversation as it's obvious that Dean still blames Shirley for past sins. Just before he leaves, Dean'd slip in a really hurtful barb at Shirl about how it was her bad mothering that lead Ben to kill Heather and he and Carly got off easy "Who knows how bad I'd be if you'd been around!"
I'd then gradually bring Tina and Mick in using Tosh abusing Tina as the plot device. Mick is worried about Tina and nothing he and Linda (who we don't meet yet) say or do can make her see sense. By Christmas, the Carters are in the Vic and they've gotten rid of Tosh. Nancy would arrive with the rest of the family and Dean would return in early February. I'd also have Lee as a soldier and both Nancy and Johnny as students. None of them would live at home, but Nancy and Johnny would pop back regularly as their at London Universities
Apart from Stan and Shirley (who he ignores), Dean is not popular with the rest of the family. He doesn't really try to make friends but is not out-and-out hostile either. Linda feels sorry for Dean and thinks his behaviour is because he doesn't feel like part of the family so she makes a real effort to be kind to him and cajoles Mick into making friends with Dean.
Dean's obsession with Linda would be a very subtle at first - he'd always compliment her and buy her small presents to say thank you when she made an especial effort on his behalf. Slowly, his behaviour would stop being sweet to being a bit much and then generally creepy. He wouldn't be taking physical liberties with her, but he's got a box hidden somewhere with little momentos in it - like a paper cup with Linda's lipstick on and one of her hair ties etc. Dean is also jealous of Mick, not just his relationship with Linda, but also with Shirley and his children. Nancy and Johnny would both find Dean a little weird as he treats them like they are his kids.
At the same time, we'd be finding out that Mick is mainly as nice and perfect as he seems, but he does have a hidden dark side. We'd find out about Jimmy who was a married patron of the pub Shirley burnt down; Jimmy had tried it on with Linda and one day, he'd cornered her when he was drunk; Mick walked in in and lost it. Nothing had happened to Linda but Mick nearly beat Jimmy to death; JImmy didn't press charges because he was ashamed of what he was doing and didn't want his wife find out.
The Rape would then happen nearer to Christmas and then play out as on the show.
Hopefully, we'd have sowed enough doubts about Mick's ability to contact himself that it would actually be possible for him to have killed Dean.
Easy. Not have the rape happen. Just Dean being slightly obsessed with Linda would of been quite enough. I quite liked Mick just being Shirley's little brother. I liked the banter between them. It was sweet. So I possibly wouldn't of made Mick Shirley's son for that reason. And I agree with the post above. The Carters should have come into it gradually. Mick should of appeared in it first. Not Linda. Don't know why they did it that way round. They should of shown a scene where Shirley begged Mick for forgiveness about the fire. I think that might of happened off screen, but I don't know why they couldn't of shown it.
By all means, have the rape storyline but have somebody
a) from outside the family
b) who can act.
Then we can focus on Shirley being Mick's mother, which has been completely sidelined.
I also wouldn't have had the Tosh and Tina story - Tosh was too one dimensional for us to care about the abuse in her past (unlike, for example, Kirsty on Corrie, who was a much better develoepd character, despite seeming to have no redeeming qualities). I like Tina now, but for the months she was in that relationship she was like an overgrown baby.
Make Lee Lucy's murderer. I know people think there's a Carter overload but the reveal that it was Bobby, pretty much by accident, was such an anti-climax. If it had been Lee, and he had been caught, it would get rid of a character that isn't really working (not the actor's fault) and given all sorts of opportunities for drama between the families involved. (Not 100% sure about this one as with the Vic as the heart of the Square, would people want to go in there with the landlord's son the murderer of a Beale?!).
I think the problem started when a barman summoned £450,000 in cash to buy a pub on Christmas day 2013.
The Carters should have been a slow start. Ironically the Carters are the only DTC characters not to have been dripfed into the show. They came with a bang and stayed. Nancy and Lee's first introductions are the only ones that washed with me.
But to answer the question this is what I would have done.
Mick shouldn't have been put on a pedestal from the get go (I'm very aware this was to appease Danny Dyer, but no actor should be pandered to like that. It's embarrassing)
Some characters are born great (legacy characters I.E Martin Fowler, Ben Mitchell, The Butcher Brats, The Beale kids etc), some characters achieve greatness (long-running characters I.E Kathy, Dot, Ian, Phil ) and some characters have greatness thrust upon them like Mick Carter.
What should have happened is Mick should have been down and out and came to Walford to reconnect with Shirley.
We should have watched the dynamic between Mick, Shirley and Tina first. Then have Linda come looking for Mick.
They should have slowly worked their way up to owning the Vic before throwing in the kids and the oldies.
I don't like the fact that they came in and just took over - characters should be made to earn the respect of the viewers.
I almost feel like the Vic belongs to the fans and Mick and Linda didnt ask the fans if they could have it - they just came in and snatched it - if that makes sense.
I'd have liked to have seen them all go on a Caravan holiday to the white cliffs of Dover. It's their last night and during the middle of the night the Caravan slides off the cliff killing them all.
Comments
- explored deans mental state
-keep Johnny around and keep that Ben story going on and he helps Ben come to terms with it
-brought Zsa zsa back for the Tina/tosh storyline and have her reconnect with Tina after the reveal
-explored lees anger and not have him with Whitney
-have Stan and Cora actually marry
-keep mick as the loveable dad (but that's ruined now and now he is all about himself)
-give the adult ones equal screentime to the rest if the cast
-make them more social and build friendships. Linda, Tina and Johnny were fine
By all means, have the rape storyline but have somebody
a) from outside the family
b) who can act.
Then we can focus on Shirley being Mick's mother, which has been completely sidelined.
I also wouldn't have had the Tosh and Tina story - Tosh was too one dimensional for us to care about the abuse in her past (unlike, for example, Kirsty on Corrie, who was a much better develoepd character, despite seeming to have no redeeming qualities). I like Tina now, but for the months she was in that relationship she was like an overgrown baby.
Make Lee Lucy's murderer. I know people think there's a Carter overload but the reveal that it was Bobby, pretty much by accident, was such an anti-climax. If it had been Lee, and he had been caught, it would get rid of a character that isn't really working (not the actor's fault) and given all sorts of opportunities for drama between the families involved. (Not 100% sure about this one as with the Vic as the heart of the Square, would people want to go in there with the landlord's son the murderer of a Beale?!).
- Explore the Shirley/Mick relationship, leading to the reveal at Christmas.
- Explore Lee's anger, he begins hitting Whitney and eventually goes to counselling.
- Stan's death on Boxing Day.
- Explore Johnny and Nancy a little more.
- Tina/Tosh/Sonia
2015
- Dean returns for Stan's funeral and then the rape happens.
- Johnny/Ben relationship.
- Babe/Sylvie
-Not made Mick Shirley's son
-Probably written out Babe for good
-If there was a family secret, perhaps Irene Raymond could've been Shirley's estranged sister (Irene's maiden name was Carter) so there'd be a reason for her and Terry to return to EE
-Brought back either Zsa Zsa or Carly
-Not introduce Buster
- Explore Mick and Shirley - leading to Christmas reveal, by that point Sylvie would have been found and would be the one to inadvertently let slip over Christmas dinner. Her line 'not my boy, Shirley's boy - but don't tell anyone' would have been a perfect duff duff. Explore the aftermath of Shirley/Mick, Sylvie's relationship with her children and introduction of Buster. (this parentage story has now been sidelined, unfortunately because Shirley is a longstanding character and I think it should have been done separately so we could fully explore it)
- Stan's cancer revealed and death in the beginning of 2015. Integrate Cora into the Carter unit.
- Dean maybe becoming obsessed with Mick once he finds out he is his brother and trying to muscle his way into the family. I wouldn't have made him a rapist.
- Explore Babe secrets. And find out more about the Carter fire.
Mid 2015
- Linda's rape but by a character outside of the family - maybe from a different family on the square or a punter. No pregnancy.
- Explore Nancy and Tamwar.
- Look at Lee's anger, maybe explore PTSD - let him loose on Linda's rapist - who would not have been Dean - how far would he go?
- Explore Shirley and Buster as a couple and their backstory.
Amongst all this I would integrate the Carters into the square more - Lee and Nancy with the younger crowd, Buster with Vincent or a rivalry with Phil, Linda with Sharon and Mick with the lads - Ian/Alfie. Shirley already has lots of links throughout the square and I would have liked to have seen them more - a friendship with Carol? See more of her with Denise/Kim/Patrick, Phil frenemieship.
You get the idea.
- Not had Linda fall pregnant after being raped.
- Still had the 'Shirley is Mick's mum' storyline, but changed it so Dean and Mick were at loggerheads as they rubbed each other up the wrong way and then found out that Shirley was Mick's mum. They could've dealt with the aftermath and then done a storyline about Dean and what is going on in his mind etc. and how each character coped with the reveal. Buster could've come in once the dust had settled and M&D wanted to know about their father.
- Give Lee and Nancy storylines that take them away from the family. Let them act their age!
The Carters should have been a slow start. Ironically the Carters are the only DTC characters not to have been dripfed into the show. They came with a bang and stayed. Nancy and Lee's first introductions are the only ones that washed with me.
But to answer the question this is what I would have done.
Mick shouldn't have been put on a pedestal from the get go (I'm very aware this was to appease Danny Dyer, but no actor should be pandered to like that. It's embarrasing)
Some characters are born great (legacy characters I.E Martin Fowler, Ben Mitchell, The Butcher Brats, The Beale kids etc), some characters achieve greatness (long-running characters I.E Kathy, Dot, Ian, Phil ) and some characters have greatness thrust upon them like Mick Carter.
What should have happened is Mick should have been down and out and came to Walford to reconnect with Shirley.
We should have watched the dynamic between Mick, Shirley and Tina first. Then have Linda come looking for Mick.
They should have slowly worked their way up to owning the Vic before throwing in the kids and the oldies.
I don't like the fact that they came in and just took over - characters should be made to earn the respect of the viewers.
I almost feel like the Vic belongs to the fans and Mick and Linda didnt ask the fans if they could have it - they just came in and snatched it - if that makes sense.
It does make sense and I completely agree with this whole post, esp the BIB and the about Mick/Danny Dyer!
The reason it feels like a Carter take over for some is because they all came in together and became the central family overnight, this should have happened slowly and gradually built into them buying into the Vic.
Shirley/Mick/Tina should have been explored first, then Linda comes in with one kid preferably, then the oldies and Buster.
Exactly! It's almost as if we've been given no choice but to like them. This also ties back into the way Mick and Linda's characters are designed - they are too perfect. Even their flaws are perfect. For example Mick's temper is his flaw, but we only ever see it when he is perfectly in the right for getting angry. Linda's over-protectiveness is one of her flaws, but it's only because she cares about her family.
I think the Carter takeover happened mainly to refresh the show and take the focus away from the characters that had been ruined during a tiresome few years. So I completely understand why it happened. If it had to happen I would just say I would have preffered them not moving into the Vic straight away it was too much of a desperate jump-the-shark moment
No Xmas rape reveals
Less pushing of Shirley to the front of the show. Gone from one extreme to the other
Lee comes in later, develops a love hate relationship with Shabbers (no sex) then gets killed on duty.
Less 'Ooh look its Danny Dyer' scenes.
Less repetitive meandering scenes.
I agree. Spot on, as DTC's fave characters, Mick and Linda have been written as 'perfect' and like you say, even their flaws are perfect. They feel quite one dimensional to me, and don't really have an identity because they spend so much time writing them as the perfect couple, the perfect people, not treading on any toes unless it is deemed acceptable. That is what frustrates me about them. It does feel like they are painted out as 'saints' in order to keep the viewer rooting for them. Mick is driving me up the wall with his sarky comments at the moment, though. And have you noticed that most of the promo for the show features Mick and Linda prominently?
I agree, I understand the point of bringing fresh blood into the show but I'm not 100% on board with how they were brought in. I would happily have seen Mick and Tina come in first - I miss the fun siblingship between Shirley and Tina and the soft, loving relationship between Shirley and Mick.
Yep absolutely.
Bib - They are the new faces of the show atm. They have been given the most popular pub on TV. They featured in the most episodes last year. They were put forward for every award.
They even starred as Danny and Sandy in GreaseEnders
You've just got to laugh about it really.
I can totally see your point but actually I liked the way they arrived with a bang. In the real world people don't slowly infiltrate a new community. Pubs change hands and completely new teams come in and take over. Maybe there should have been a little more reluctance from the locals to accept them - rather than Mick being instantly accepted as the heart of the community. In my experience it takes a while for new owners/management to win over the regulars!
If we went back to June that's when they were stomp opulent and loveable characters. After August is when they went ott and awful but prior to that is was getting to know them with nothing that big between them aside the coming out storyline.
Not made Mick Shirley's son but kept him as her brother and Dean as Mick's nephew.
Kept Mick as loveable family man and developed his friendships with Ian/Alfie
Not had Linda pregnant (3 children are quite enough)
Brought Buster in and coupled him with Shirley, and have him revealed as Dean's dad but not Mick's.
Kept Johnny, coupled him with Ben and axed Nancy
Kept Lee and given him more to do.
I don't like Mick saying 'off his nut' in over-exaggerated Cockney in what seems like every single episode. I also don't like the over-use of his rhyming slang, sometimes I have no clue on some of the words and have to google them after. I don't think it adds anything to the character or the programme and can be an irritant.
The repetition of the 'I'm your muvva! bit was also over-egging the pudding. I find Shirley and Buster's siding with Dean over Mick a bit weird, it's been done of course to create division and drama, but is it actually believable?
And that business with Stan wanting Tina / his family to end his life didn't make sense when he was perfectly capable of doing it himself.
How would I rewrite them? I wouldn't shoehorn them into every single episode. The actors, with the exception of Linda Henry, Timothy West and Kellie Bright, are not strong enough to warrant it.
I'd keep the rape plot - it is the reason that Matt di Angelo was asked back - and keep the original idea of Shirley, Tina and Mick being siblings. DTC gave an interview where he said they were watching back one of the early scenes and he thought Linda Henry played it as if she were Mick's mum so that's what they went with.
I'd start by re-introducing Dean several months before any of the others; he'd arrive to visit Denise and be more like the relatively happy, sweet Deano from before Kevin died. That night as Dean leaves the B&B, he accidently bumps into Shirley and they have an awkward conversation as it's obvious that Dean still blames Shirley for past sins. Just before he leaves, Dean'd slip in a really hurtful barb at Shirl about how it was her bad mothering that lead Ben to kill Heather and he and Carly got off easy "Who knows how bad I'd be if you'd been around!"
I'd then gradually bring Tina and Mick in using Tosh abusing Tina as the plot device. Mick is worried about Tina and nothing he and Linda (who we don't meet yet) say or do can make her see sense. By Christmas, the Carters are in the Vic and they've gotten rid of Tosh. Nancy would arrive with the rest of the family and Dean would return in early February. I'd also have Lee as a soldier and both Nancy and Johnny as students. None of them would live at home, but Nancy and Johnny would pop back regularly as their at London Universities
Apart from Stan and Shirley (who he ignores), Dean is not popular with the rest of the family. He doesn't really try to make friends but is not out-and-out hostile either. Linda feels sorry for Dean and thinks his behaviour is because he doesn't feel like part of the family so she makes a real effort to be kind to him and cajoles Mick into making friends with Dean.
Dean's obsession with Linda would be a very subtle at first - he'd always compliment her and buy her small presents to say thank you when she made an especial effort on his behalf. Slowly, his behaviour would stop being sweet to being a bit much and then generally creepy. He wouldn't be taking physical liberties with her, but he's got a box hidden somewhere with little momentos in it - like a paper cup with Linda's lipstick on and one of her hair ties etc. Dean is also jealous of Mick, not just his relationship with Linda, but also with Shirley and his children. Nancy and Johnny would both find Dean a little weird as he treats them like they are his kids.
At the same time, we'd be finding out that Mick is mainly as nice and perfect as he seems, but he does have a hidden dark side. We'd find out about Jimmy who was a married patron of the pub Shirley burnt down; Jimmy had tried it on with Linda and one day, he'd cornered her when he was drunk; Mick walked in in and lost it. Nothing had happened to Linda but Mick nearly beat Jimmy to death; JImmy didn't press charges because he was ashamed of what he was doing and didn't want his wife find out.
The Rape would then happen nearer to Christmas and then play out as on the show.
Hopefully, we'd have sowed enough doubts about Mick's ability to contact himself that it would actually be possible for him to have killed Dean.
All of this sounds good to me.
This, and everything else!