Unionist Stormont talks walkout

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  • irishguyirishguy Posts: 22,172
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    Cheetah666 wrote: »
    You're being too kind imo. The organisors of that parade know full well that they are marching past a murder scene, and that the organisation who committed that murder has members and even entire bands marching past the site of their victim.

    Its a UVF triumphalist parade, masquerading as an Orange parade, and if it was anything less sinister those 250 yards on the Crumlin Road wouldn't be a cause for six days of loyalist rioting.

    The 6 days of rioting is because they think the banning of the parade is one more example of the erosion of their human rights and culture. They really feel like their way of life is somehow under threat.. that's why so many loyalists are motivated to riot... Just missing out on the opportunity to go 'up yours' to the Ardoyne residents wouldn;t provoke this kind of anger
  • Cheetah666Cheetah666 Posts: 16,036
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    irishguy wrote: »
    The 6 days of rioting is because they think the banning of the parade is one more example of the erosion of their human rights and culture. They really feel like their way of life is somehow under threat.. that's why so many loyalists are motivated to riot... Just missing out on the opportunity to go 'up yours' to the Ardoyne residents wouldn;t provoke this kind of anger

    BiB - And what exactly has them that way? Its certainly not reality. The reality is that there are over 4000 Orange Parades in NI every year, many of them through areas where the population is 90+ nationalist, and virtually none of them are controversial.

    There's about 5 Orange parades in NI which are controversial enough to be referred to the Parades Commission. And one of those five has been told to re-route part of its 12 mile march to accommodate people on a 250 yard stretch of road.

    6 days of rioting over that? The loyalists involved in these riots are delusional, and the Parades Commission is absolutely correct in their determination.
  • irishguyirishguy Posts: 22,172
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    Cheetah666 wrote: »
    BiB - And what exactly has them that way? Its certainly not reality. The reality is that there are over 4000 Orange Parades in NI every year, many of them through areas where the population is 90+ nationalist, and virtually none of them are controversial.

    There's about 5 Orange parades in NI which are controversial enough to be referred to the Parades Commission. And one of those five has been told to re-route part of its 12 mile march to accommodate people on a 250 yard stretch of road.

    6 days of rioting over that? The loyalists involved in these riots are delusional, and the Parades Commission is absolutely correct in their determination.

    Yep - certainly not the reality at all... as I said, they seem to be under the belief that banning a small number of contentious parades while allowing the vast majority to take place, closing down the roads, having a public holiday, building bloody big bonfires etc... is a slippery slope... Accepting that they can't just march whereever they want now will somehow result in in a united Ireland and unionists being converted to popery.

    Its kinda like how some christian groups believe that there is a war on christmas because schools don't perform nativity plays and have their pupils sing carols. They now have to accept that christianity is no longer the dominant force it once was.
  • Cheetah666Cheetah666 Posts: 16,036
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    I don't think anybody on earth cares about NI apart from the rest of Ireland. Certainly Britain doesn't seem to care, its almost as if they don't see it as a real part of the United Kingdom.
  • TrebleKingTrebleKing Posts: 2,390
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    Cheetah666 wrote: »
    I don't think anybody on earth cares about NI apart from the rest of Ireland. Certainly Britain doesn't seem to care, its almost as if they don't see it as a real part of the United Kingdom.

    Ignorant, repulsive, repugnant post. Congratulations.
  • irishguyirishguy Posts: 22,172
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    TrebleKing wrote: »
    Ignorant, repulsive, repugnant post. Congratulations.

    Doesn't stop it from being true though
  • Cheetah666Cheetah666 Posts: 16,036
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    TrebleKing wrote: »
    Ignorant, repulsive, repugnant post. Congratulations.

    Truth hurts.
  • openarmsopenarms Posts: 1,040
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    If the Orange Order want their traditions and culture to be respected they need to take ownership of their parades.

    It is not good enough to stoke tensions with proclamations of impending protests, light the touch paper, walk away and let the PSNI get it in the neck again.

    Some code of conduct needs to be employed across the board for all parades. Extra stewarding provided from within the organisations to make marches a cold place for people like that drunken individual in the youtube video.

    The notion of an unelected body like the Orange Order setting the tone for Unionist politics is akin to the trade unions yanking the Labour Party chain in years gone by

    Hopefully they won't begin blocking roads again in the next few weeks. If they do I hope the police act with a bit more conviction than they did during the flag protests.

    Law abiding people are fed up with this nonsense.
  • irishguyirishguy Posts: 22,172
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    openarms wrote: »
    If the Orange Order want their traditions and culture to be respected they need to take ownership of their parades.

    It is not good enough to stoke tensions with proclamations of impending protests, light the touch paper, walk away and let the PSNI get it in the neck again.

    Some code of conduct needs to be employed across the board for all parades. Extra stewarding provided from within the organisations to make marches a cold place for people like that drunken individual in the youtube video.

    The notion of an unelected body like the Orange Order setting the tone for Unionist politics is akin to the trade unions yanking the Labour Party chain in years gone by

    Hopefully they won't begin blocking roads again in the next few weeks. If they do I hope the police act with a bit more conviction than they did during the flag protests.

    Law abiding people are fed up with this nonsense.

    It's sad that mainstream, moderate unionism has allowed it's political representatives to hijack their agenda with that of the Orange Order. I'm sure most unionists that arent in the order couldn't care less about this Ardoyne march and they'd much rather their MLAs would spend their time on the economy or health rather than disrupt the assembly with this. 1/3 of the DUP are Orange men in contrast to less than 5% of the unionist population.... the tail is wagging the dog here.
  • BelfastGuy125BelfastGuy125 Posts: 7,515
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    irishguy wrote: »
    It's sad that mainstream, moderate unionism has allowed it's political representatives to hijack their agenda with that of the Orange Order. I'm sure most unionists that arent in the order couldn't care less about this Ardoyne march and they'd much rather their MLAs would spend their time on the economy or health rather than disrupt the assembly with this. 1/3 of the DUP are Orange men in contrast to less than 5% of the unionist population.... the tail is wagging the dog here.

    We are. The moderate Unionists who are not raised off the street, dispair at what is happening. The DUP and all these loyalist groups think the extremely tough stance is helping the unionist cause, rather it is destroying it. Moderate Unionists in universities here these days are not staying here, they are moving to London or the rest of the UK where they can be in the UK but don't have to deal with the nonsense of the streets here.

    Then who will be left? The rioters and protesters are not going to be exactly filling the jobs in Belfast's swanky Titanic Quarter or Cathedral quarter!
  • Terry NTerry N Posts: 5,262
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    Cheetah666 wrote: »
    You're being too kind imo. The organisors of that parade know full well that they are marching past a murder scene, and that the organisation who committed that murder has members and even entire bands marching past the site of their victim.

    Its a UVF triumphalist parade, masquerading as an Orange parade, and if it was anything less sinister those 250 yards on the Crumlin Road wouldn't be a cause for six days of loyalist rioting.

    If marches weren't allowed to walk past murder scenes in NI there'd be no parades at all. lol
  • exploexplo Posts: 594
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    Cheetah666 wrote: »
    You're being too kind imo. The organisors of that parade know full well that they are marching past a murder scene, and that the organisation who committed that murder has members and even entire bands marching past the site of their victim.

    Its a UVF triumphalist parade, masquerading as an Orange parade, and if it was anything less sinister those 250 yards on the Crumlin Road wouldn't be a cause for six days of loyalist rioting.
    How long has that parade been marching past that particular spot (which happens to be an A road)?

    I ask because a good many Orange parades have been broadly following the same routes for a very long times, some for well over a century, and long before a troubles related murder may have taken place there.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,584
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    Its always a Belfast problem, on the 12th day there are 20-30+ parades going on, some go through nationalist areas and towns and 99% of them pass of without incident. it seems in Belfast people go out of there way to offend and be offended,

    CAnd there, Happy Camper, you've got to the heart of why the Orange Order have lost their core routes forever. Drumcree, Ormeau Rd, and with one exception are Belfast ones, and the reason they've lost them is the conduct of their bandsmen amd supporters, the 'blue bag brigade' Where they behave, they get to keep walking those routes. Naturally the OO and it's apologists don't want to admit that bad conduct is to blame for loss of most coveted routes, so they blame nationalist residents for not letting them through due to intolerance on the part of residents. The number of parades is increasing by thousands of parades so there's no attack on what they call culture. That's the big difference between urban and rural parades here.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,584
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    openarms wrote: »
    Obviously not.

    It's the scale of the jingoism I don't get. Over 4000 marches a year for a population of 1.8 million.

    I'm someone who believes the part of your identity that pertains to your nationality can be carried with you on the inside. It doesn't need validation by being swathed in a flag and shouting about it. Day in. Day out. Year in. Year out. In fact, there is a good argument to be made that it makes you look insecure.

    How did the marchers and local population of Glasgow take the new legislation introduced in 2012?

    Of course the Orangemen know this and they know how the rest of the uk perceives them but their attitude is 'we know nobody likes us but we don't care'. What's behind all this flag waving and insistence on marching where and when they want, is a cry for help. They know their contrived majority of 90 years ago, and dominance in the gerrymandered state of N.I. is running out of road as catholics are no longer a minority in what was set up in 1921 as a 2-1 majority for unionists, but census shows this has frittered away and they can't handle it. simple.
  • FMKKFMKK Posts: 32,074
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    getzls wrote: »
    My guess is it takes a bit of time to muster 2000 rioters and dig out the machine gun.
    You know that one the Republicans used in 2012.

    And that is why the parade will never again be allowed past those neutral shop fronts.
    They know the Unionists will huff and.puff but they won't take machine guns to the Police.

    So you're using the giving in to Republican violence line. But wouldn't letting them through be a case of giving in to Loyalist violence considering the riots they provoked last year and the fact that the UVF have their fingerprints all over this as usual.

    The fact is, the days of the Orange Order marching where they want, when they want are over. They're marching more than any time in the last ten years so I'm not having this whole 'erosion of our culture' bollocks because they don't get what they want in one instance.
  • getzlsgetzls Posts: 4,007
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    FMKK wrote: »
    So you're using the giving in to Republican violence line. But wouldn't letting them through be a case of giving in to Loyalist violence considering the riots they provoked last year and the fact that the UVF have their fingerprints all over this as usual.

    The fact is, the days of the Orange Order marching where they want, when they want are over. They're marching more than any time in the last ten years so I'm not having this whole 'erosion of our culture' bollocks because they don't get what they want in one instance.

    It is not bullocks.
    As I said before Sinn Fein/ IRA are continuing their war against anything they see as British.

    And the Government ban the Unionists as they see their threat.of potential violence as less than the Republican threat.
  • openarmsopenarms Posts: 1,040
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    Ownership of your tradition is the key for me.

    The authorities need a figurehead or representative that they can contact to ensure things pass of peacefully without antagonism re parades and bonfires.

    Get the Orange parades well stewarded from within their own ranks to take part of the heat off the police as now happens in Glasgow.

    Hundreds of tyres on bonfire with a delicious topping of other countries flags, effigies of Catholicism and now MLA posters.

    Nay bother if you are a faceless amorphous mass of Loyalist bigots. The Orange Order disown them knowing full well 11th bonfires are part and parcel of the whole shebang.

    Why disrespect others and expect respect and understanding in return?

    Reading between the lines of the Belfast Telegraph they are guessing we have mobile road blocks of a hit and run nature post twelfth to look forward to.
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