Just looking at the recent facts and figures, plus watching the short highlights of the Kent match on Durham(CCC) TV.
18 year old Ben Stokes has had 6 first class matches, scored centuries in the last two, and blasted 26 runs in that winning over. The 5 fours is quite interesting in that it means he is not just a 'lucky slogger'.
A honeymoon start maybe but also possibly a next England great. I wonder if his bowling improves.
From what I saw of him he's definitely more of a batsman than a bowler. Also deceptively stylish (I say deceptively because he's a bit of a chunky lad and from appearances alone you'd think he was a Flintoff-eqsue uncomplicated blaster)
Is it me or is Lyth in amazing form? He's racking up runs like it's his last time at the crease.
Aye, got his hundred now too. Top scorer in division 1 by a mile. Another young player having a good season. Who's that now; Lyth, Stokes, Hales, Buttler, Finn.. all putting in some standout performances.
Although a cautionary tale for them, last season's wonderkid James Taylor at Leics seems to be having a terrible time of it.
Good to see Adam Lyth's amazing form is continuing. Hopefully we'll be able to capitalize on a solid start by the openers and clinch a 4th batting point in the morning.
I read elsewhere that Hampshire will be playing Michael Lumb from day 2 of the match-his unavailability today due to the fact he was at 10 Downing St for a reception. It's one thing substituting a player during a match who has to go off for England duties. I don't consider a drinks reception with the PM as a good enough reason for tinkering about with sides like this. It makes a mockery of the Championship to be honest.
Elsewhere did anyone spot extras was Gloucester's top scorer?- 76 out of a total of 242.
Good to see Adam Lyth's amazing form is continuing. Hopefully we'll be able to capitalize on a solid start by the openers and clinch a 4th batting point in the morning.
I read elsewhere that Hampshire will be playing Michael Lumb from day 2 of the match-his unavailability today due to the fact he was at 10 Downing St for a reception. It's one thing substituting a player during a match who has to go off for England duties. I don't consider a drinks reception with the PM as a good enough reason for tinkering about with sides like this. It makes a mockery of the Championship to be honest.
Elsewhere did anyone spot extras was Gloucester's top scorer?- 76 out of a total of 242.
I dont so much have a problem with him coming back to replace a player who hasnt bowled in the game if the team had all ready batted that would be differant
Yet on the otherhand, Kieswetter and Wright were both included for Somerset and Sussex. Somerset even sent in a lower order batsman as a sort of nightwatchmen so they could keep batters back as Kieswetter was not there. Weird. I heard the guy on Sky News say "there's Craig Kieswetter" and though, "hang on a minute, either South African's can now time travel or something's up".
Good to see Adam Lyth's amazing form is continuing. Hopefully we'll be able to capitalize on a solid start by the openers and clinch a 4th batting point in the morning.
He has made a very lythly start to the season:o
I read elsewhere that Hampshire will be playing Michael Lumb from day 2 of the match-his unavailability today due to the fact he was at 10 Downing St for a reception. It's one thing substituting a player during a match who has to go off for England duties. I don't consider a drinks reception with the PM as a good enough reason for tinkering about with sides like this. It makes a mockery of the Championship to be honest.
These regulations make a mockery of the laws of the game:(
I recall those days when half the England team had beer bellies.
.
Those were the days. Graveney, d'Oliviera, Cowdrey ( managed to mention him again) and Fred Rumsey. Fred looked like he was going to have a heart attack every time he ran in to bowl. I have never seen a less fit looking player than him.
Elsewhere did anyone spot extras was Gloucester's top scorer?- 76 out of a total of 242.
Could someone remind me of the extras rules.The scorecard says that Derby bowled 17 no balls , most from Atif Shiek on his debut, but 38 are recorded. Similarly the wides don't add up.
Those were the days. Graveney, d'Oliviera, Cowdrey ( managed to mention him again) and Fred Rumsey. Fred looked like he was going to have a heart attack every time he ran in to bowl. I have never seen a less fit looking player than him.
Colin Milburn................
In a team photo from the late 60s very few looked athletic.
I remember when Graham Barlow and Derek Randall came into the England team (although the former didn't last) and the fielding levels in the covers went up about 500%:eek:
Stokes in the runs once more, one of only two or three batsmen keeping Durham afloat. 53 off 40 balls 2nd time around. Looks extremely promising. Being so attacking and effective against Ntini and Khan who blitz them in the first innings is no mean feet. Keep this up for the rest of the season and the England selectors might be interested in giving him a whirl sometime after The Ashes.
Doing it on one leg too, he has apparently buggered up his ankle whilst fielding yesterday. Amazing stuff.
Wasn't Phil Sharpe a fine slip fielder though.........
Don't think Jack Simmons would have lasted long in the modern game.
I think that any comparisons in any sport across eras is a dodgy exercise.
Whose rules, conditions, equipment, playing styles and/or attitudes do you use?
I remember Boycott saying 'don't get me started', when a BBC presenter tentitively suggested that Ponting was one of the greatest, if not the greatest test batsman ever. Immediaely, Boycott came out with 'covered wickets, shorter boundaries and heavier bats and that's just for starters...tut, tut'.
Going with Geoff's list fo factors, how would Ponting have played in Bradman's Invincibles? How would Bradman have done in today's game? Probably both would still have done brilliantly.
But I feel a trend is forming as an undercurrent in such discussions, also found in football (where the most meaningless and unsovable debate about who is the best player in the world rages frequently elswhere on this Forum), that because the players are fitter and more athletic, then this makes them somehow better cricketers/(footballers).
I just don't buy this argument.
There is no question that players are required to be more athletic in cricket these days, but to start dumbing down the careers of such great bowlers as Fred Trueman and Alec Bedser because they didn't 'slide' in the field is frankly rediculous.
No-one is going to convince me that a game as rich as Cricket can now be measured against a yardstick defined mainly by fitness. Will future generations be waxing lyical about their star's performances of the bleep test or the standing stretch test?
Fred Trueman's image, unfortunately may well have become tarnished by his post retirement media appearances on such programmes as Indoor leaue and, even, TMS. Get reading about the cricket in that times and Fred was THE bowler that everyone hated facing. His banter aside, his pace, swing, movement off the pitch and aggression were feared, especially in the early and mid 1950s when he began.
Which bowler in the current English game might we say that about?
Alec Bedser effectively created the leg cutter; a delivery that batsmen talked about as fizzing in the air.
How many of today's County seamers have such a delivery in their armory?
Despite their alleged fitness, which bowlers of today would be strong enough to even consider matching Bedser's herculean bowling spells for England epecially down under in the ferocious Ozzie heat on numerous occasions?
The seeming inevitable expansion of T20 cricket means that bowlers are already being trained to bowl spells of .........24 deliveries.
For all its benefits and excitement (I enjoyed many T20 games last year), no-one can convince me that any generation of bowlers bought up to be measured on their 24 ball performances can be compared to bowlers of the past.
Having just read Colin Milburn's biography, one of the saddest sports books, everyone talks about him as a phenomenal talent. Even I, as a 10 year-old remember him facing and destroying the great Wes Hall without the safety factor of helmut and arm guards. A century against Debyshire on a greentop where no-one else could score a run and a brutal double century for Western Australia in record time are 2 more innings that define his memory.
Ironically, Keith Andrew, Milburn's County Captain talked about what a superb close fielder Milburn was and that when he played for England, the various Captains stuck him in the covers where his obvious weight issues meant that he struggled.
Of course, the statistics don't tell the whole story about any player, but they do tell us a whole lot. We might muse that Jack Simmons might not survive these days, but lets not forget that he played 450 1st Class matches for Lancashire and Tasmania between '68 and '89 scoring 9,417 runs (6 centuries / 41 fifties) and taking 1,033 wickets (41 times taking 5 wickets in an innings). He also played in 471 One-Day matches.
His large frame might well have meant that he would have struggled to slide and dive in today's game, but he was employing the type of restrictive spin bowling in Lancashire succesful One-Day sides of the early 70's as employed by the spinners in the T20 world game now.
Simmons once asked a young John Abrahams to stop at the fish and chip shop close to Flat Jack's home. He bought and ate a portion on the wall outside. On getting back into the car, Abrahams asked him why he adn't waited until he got home to eat his food. 'Ooh no. If I did that, my missus wouldn't give me my tea' came the reply.
After attempting to adjust Colin Milburn's formidable eating and drinking habits by suggesting to him that at least he should drink halfs instaed of pints, when Keith Andrew offered to buy him a post match drink, Milburn apparently said 'Thanks, boss. I'll have 2 halfs'
It is absolutely not the case that because it was in the past, it was better. But I believe that a game that allowed players like Milburn, Simmons and others to play and perform at the top level was certainly a richer and more varied and interesting one than a sport where players are cloned to meet a set of fitness requirements which can then be ruined at a stroke by the ludicrous practice of playing 5 a side football as a warm up exercise.
Could someone remind me of the extras rules.The scorecard says that Derby bowled 17 no balls , most from Atif Shiek on his debut, but 38 are recorded. Similarly the wides don't add up.
ALL runs scored off wides are recorded as extras and the same goes for no balls if they do not come off the bat. For instance, if the wide goes to the boundary it is scored as 5 wides.
Comments
18 year old Ben Stokes has had 6 first class matches, scored centuries in the last two, and blasted 26 runs in that winning over. The 5 fours is quite interesting in that it means he is not just a 'lucky slogger'.
A honeymoon start maybe but also possibly a next England great. I wonder if his bowling improves.
Hmmm Surrey or Lancs, not sure who I'd like more to lose.
Is it Durham v Kent ?
They only played each other last week !.........doesn't seem like very good scheduling !
Aye, got his hundred now too. Top scorer in division 1 by a mile. Another young player having a good season. Who's that now; Lyth, Stokes, Hales, Buttler, Finn.. all putting in some standout performances.
Although a cautionary tale for them, last season's wonderkid James Taylor at Leics seems to be having a terrible time of it.
He's down and troubled and needs a helping hand:o
He probably thinks this thread is about him..........:o
Just worked that one out.
I read elsewhere that Hampshire will be playing Michael Lumb from day 2 of the match-his unavailability today due to the fact he was at 10 Downing St for a reception. It's one thing substituting a player during a match who has to go off for England duties. I don't consider a drinks reception with the PM as a good enough reason for tinkering about with sides like this. It makes a mockery of the Championship to be honest.
Elsewhere did anyone spot extras was Gloucester's top scorer?- 76 out of a total of 242.
It was covered back up when one of the names was found to be Joel Warner.
I dont so much have a problem with him coming back to replace a player who hasnt bowled in the game if the team had all ready batted that would be differant
Those were the days. Graveney, d'Oliviera, Cowdrey ( managed to mention him again) and Fred Rumsey. Fred looked like he was going to have a heart attack every time he ran in to bowl. I have never seen a less fit looking player than him.
Could someone remind me of the extras rules.The scorecard says that Derby bowled 17 no balls , most from Atif Shiek on his debut, but 38 are recorded. Similarly the wides don't add up.
Colin Milburn................
In a team photo from the late 60s very few looked athletic.
I remember when Graham Barlow and Derek Randall came into the England team (although the former didn't last) and the fielding levels in the covers went up about 500%:eek:
Wasn't Phil Sharpe a fine slip fielder though.........
Don't think Jack Simmons would have lasted long in the modern game.
County cricket is bank rolled by the ECB & only exists to produce England test players.
If you pay for something then you get to call the shots.
Doing it on one leg too, he has apparently buggered up his ankle whilst fielding yesterday. Amazing stuff.
I think that any comparisons in any sport across eras is a dodgy exercise.
Whose rules, conditions, equipment, playing styles and/or attitudes do you use?
I remember Boycott saying 'don't get me started', when a BBC presenter tentitively suggested that Ponting was one of the greatest, if not the greatest test batsman ever. Immediaely, Boycott came out with 'covered wickets, shorter boundaries and heavier bats and that's just for starters...tut, tut'.
Going with Geoff's list fo factors, how would Ponting have played in Bradman's Invincibles? How would Bradman have done in today's game? Probably both would still have done brilliantly.
But I feel a trend is forming as an undercurrent in such discussions, also found in football (where the most meaningless and unsovable debate about who is the best player in the world rages frequently elswhere on this Forum), that because the players are fitter and more athletic, then this makes them somehow better cricketers/(footballers).
I just don't buy this argument.
There is no question that players are required to be more athletic in cricket these days, but to start dumbing down the careers of such great bowlers as Fred Trueman and Alec Bedser because they didn't 'slide' in the field is frankly rediculous.
No-one is going to convince me that a game as rich as Cricket can now be measured against a yardstick defined mainly by fitness. Will future generations be waxing lyical about their star's performances of the bleep test or the standing stretch test?
Fred Trueman's image, unfortunately may well have become tarnished by his post retirement media appearances on such programmes as Indoor leaue and, even, TMS. Get reading about the cricket in that times and Fred was THE bowler that everyone hated facing. His banter aside, his pace, swing, movement off the pitch and aggression were feared, especially in the early and mid 1950s when he began.
Which bowler in the current English game might we say that about?
Alec Bedser effectively created the leg cutter; a delivery that batsmen talked about as fizzing in the air.
How many of today's County seamers have such a delivery in their armory?
Despite their alleged fitness, which bowlers of today would be strong enough to even consider matching Bedser's herculean bowling spells for England epecially down under in the ferocious Ozzie heat on numerous occasions?
The seeming inevitable expansion of T20 cricket means that bowlers are already being trained to bowl spells of .........24 deliveries.
For all its benefits and excitement (I enjoyed many T20 games last year), no-one can convince me that any generation of bowlers bought up to be measured on their 24 ball performances can be compared to bowlers of the past.
Having just read Colin Milburn's biography, one of the saddest sports books, everyone talks about him as a phenomenal talent. Even I, as a 10 year-old remember him facing and destroying the great Wes Hall without the safety factor of helmut and arm guards. A century against Debyshire on a greentop where no-one else could score a run and a brutal double century for Western Australia in record time are 2 more innings that define his memory.
Ironically, Keith Andrew, Milburn's County Captain talked about what a superb close fielder Milburn was and that when he played for England, the various Captains stuck him in the covers where his obvious weight issues meant that he struggled.
Of course, the statistics don't tell the whole story about any player, but they do tell us a whole lot. We might muse that Jack Simmons might not survive these days, but lets not forget that he played 450 1st Class matches for Lancashire and Tasmania between '68 and '89 scoring 9,417 runs (6 centuries / 41 fifties) and taking 1,033 wickets (41 times taking 5 wickets in an innings). He also played in 471 One-Day matches.
His large frame might well have meant that he would have struggled to slide and dive in today's game, but he was employing the type of restrictive spin bowling in Lancashire succesful One-Day sides of the early 70's as employed by the spinners in the T20 world game now.
Simmons once asked a young John Abrahams to stop at the fish and chip shop close to Flat Jack's home. He bought and ate a portion on the wall outside. On getting back into the car, Abrahams asked him why he adn't waited until he got home to eat his food. 'Ooh no. If I did that, my missus wouldn't give me my tea' came the reply.
After attempting to adjust Colin Milburn's formidable eating and drinking habits by suggesting to him that at least he should drink halfs instaed of pints, when Keith Andrew offered to buy him a post match drink, Milburn apparently said 'Thanks, boss. I'll have 2 halfs'
It is absolutely not the case that because it was in the past, it was better. But I believe that a game that allowed players like Milburn, Simmons and others to play and perform at the top level was certainly a richer and more varied and interesting one than a sport where players are cloned to meet a set of fitness requirements which can then be ruined at a stroke by the ludicrous practice of playing 5 a side football as a warm up exercise.
ALL runs scored off wides are recorded as extras and the same goes for no balls if they do not come off the bat. For instance, if the wide goes to the boundary it is scored as 5 wides.
If that's the case, why do the ECB bankroll the counties to play overseas and Kolpak players
What an excellent post!! I enjoyed reading that:)
But well it only only hapless Kent they beat.
Oh dear.