I agree with the OP. BB went too low-brow very early on and chased the young market. It's always going to be quite low brow just by the nature of the show but they could have picked better contestants for their normal BB. On average, I find the older contestants to be far more interesting. Nowadays the average cast on BB looks like the rehearsal group for the next TOWIE or whatever the equivalent is now. That's fine if you like those kind of shows but many people despise them and everything they encourage (the Z listers phenomenon).
Less of the wannabe models and more mature people from different backgrounds (not necessarily unusual backgrounds) would be a lot better for me.
Lesley,you were fab - and gave us thebest quote IMO ever:
The housemates were allocating jobs around the house. They got to Lesley and asked what she would do.
Lesley: i'll do the post-modern irony.
Loved it!
As an 'older' woman, I really really miss having mature people on civilian BB. They bring wit, experience, eccentricity and interesting debate to the programme. The last civilian BB really suffered - the only 'conversations' revolved around arguing and bitching. But I agree that BB need to be clever in choosing their older housemates. The eccentric ones (and many of us are) are the most entertaining - because they give lessof a s!!t what people think.
Apart from Lesley (who couldn't even hack it until the end of week 2 ) I'm struggling to think of any older civilian HMs who were witty, eccentric and interesting. Derek maybe and that's about it - he was utterly loathesome but admittedly a really good HM.
Ahmed was good value imo, Lisa and Mario were ahem 'interesting'... apart from that I can't think of any older HMs who have been much good at all, never mind fit in with your description. I think Dawn could have been good but again she gave up really early.
There have been loads of witty, eccentric, interesting celebs though - but I think older celebs have led very different lifestyles and have a much different outlook on life (and on BB) to the kind of ageing, slightly desperate last-chancers we've mostly had to endure in the civilian series.
One reason I can think of is that CBB lasts 3 weeks while BB itself lasts anything up to 3 months. I just cant see most older hms being fame hungry enough to stick it that long, I know there are exceptions like Lisa and Mario, but the younger hms are far more willing to accept any level of humiliation and mind rotting boredom in order to have a chance to grasp the lowest rung of the zeleb ladder.
I work in television. All channel execs are very explicit - they don't want to see older casts on most shows. They are still chasing youth, even though after 10 years it's obvious young people are not great TV viewers. The average age of viewers for most shows is over 50, so if they can get younger viewers they go after them. The flaw in casting is, IMO, that they think younger viewers only like younger casts. My experience is they live great characters they can identify with or be provoked by, and these can be all ages.
You know this, I know this, anyone and everyone I speak to who's media-savvy knows this, and STILL the people in charge fail to grasp it. Most young people clearly have other interests, and TV execs need to wise up to the fact.
Channel 5 have been aiming the normal series at the braindead TOWIE audience since the first series on the channel.
They think the average average viewer likes Essex morons, glamour sluts and hookers but they've got it wrong and proved they don't know what Big Brother is about because the viewing figures are extremely low.
If that is the case then why do they cast older HMs in CBB? Clearly they do know the target audience well for each show.
Apart from Lesley (who couldn't even hack it until the end of week 2 ) I'm struggling to think of any older civilian HMs who were witty, eccentric and interesting. Derek maybe and that's about it - he was utterly loathesome but admittedly a really good HM.
Ahmed was good value imo, Lisa and Mario were ahem 'interesting'... apart from that I can't think of any older HMs who have been much good at all, never mind fit in with your description. I think Dawn could have been good but again she gave up really early.
There have been loads of witty, eccentric, interesting celebs though - but I think older celebs have led very different lifestyles and have a much different outlook on life (and on BB) to the kind of ageing, slightly desperate last-chancers we've mostly had to endure in the civilian series.
I meant that I really feel the lack of eccentric, witty etc. older housemates - and have seen them on CBB again and again. Like I said, it is up to BB to be cleverer in their selection of older housemates. Do you really think that there are no interesting, eccentric,witty and intelligent older people out there in 'ordinary' life?
I loved Lesley, she still makes me smile when I think of her sniffing her mattress....:D
(for the unitiated she wasn't, she was seen weeping silently into her mattress,so no one else would see it)
' I wasn't crying, I was just sniffing my mattress'
I'd have loved Lesley more if she had the nerve to say exactly what she thought about Carole, Seany, et al as a parting gift to the viewers.
I still don't understand why she held back once she decided that she would go home. She asked to leave the show on Day Four, so there was plenty of time to be honest before she left. It would have made brilliant television, and the dynamics of the house might have changed for the better.
It's so strange that she backed away from BB and all its spin-off programs without giving her real opinions about the housemates, especially since she became so outspoken later in these forums, when it was too late to improve the show.
Apart from Lesley (who couldn't even hack it until the end of week 2 ) I'm struggling to think of any older civilian HMs who were witty, eccentric and interesting. Derek maybe and that's about it - he was utterly loathesome but admittedly a really good HM.
Ahmed was good value imo, Lisa and Mario were ahem 'interesting'... apart from that I can't think of any older HMs who have been much good at all, never mind fit in with your description. I think Dawn could have been good but again she gave up really early.
There have been loads of witty, eccentric, interesting celebs though - but I think older celebs have led very different lifestyles and have a much different outlook on life (and on BB) to the kind of ageing, slightly desperate last-chancers we've mostly had to endure in the civilian series.
In Lesley's year alone, Jonathan made plenty of witty and interesting remarks. He was fiftyish and extremely successful and wealthy in real life, so he said whatever he liked. He was often quite amusing on live feed, in a dry and caustic way. In addition to Jonathan, Jonty, who was fortyish, had plenty of interesting discussions about history, politics, and culture on live feed. His style was gentler than Jonathan's, and he was 100x more diplomatic in his conversations about HMs, but he was still fun to listen to.
I'm not sure why you've picked Aaron as an example, he may have acted like an old man but he was actually only 30. Even Bianca from BB15 was older than him.
I think the celebrity series is more suited to older HMs, it's so much shorter so therefore far easier to commit to. Also the older celebs who've been selected have usually led less than standard lives, so are more used to being away from their family, easy home life and comforts - rather than being unadaptable and stuck in their ways.
A list of all the over-35's who've ever appeared in the civilian version would probably reveal why the producers are reluctant to choose many more - Carole, Jonty, Belinda, Jasmine, Steve, Jo, the Travers woman, Dave the monk etc etc.
Only mentioned him because he was the oldest in his series.
I meant that I really feel the lack of eccentric, witty etc. older housemates - and have seen them on CBB again and again. Like I said, it is up to BB to be cleverer in their selection of older housemates. Do you really think that there are no interesting, eccentric,witty and intelligent older people out there in 'ordinary' life?
The problem isn't that they don't exist; it's finding some who want to go into BB and who will be able to hack it once there.
There are reasons, such as family and work responsibilities, why older people who might theoretically be good HMs will tend not even to try to get into BB. The ones who do try often have quite undesirable characteristics or are poor HMs for some other reason.
In Lesley's year alone, Jonathan made plenty of witty and interesting remarks. He was fiftyish and extremely successful and wealthy in real life, so he said whatever he liked. He was often quite amusing on live feed, in a dry and caustic way.
Yes, but he had to leave because of family responsibilities. Lesley couldn't take life in the house and also walked.
That's one reason why when I say HMs over 40 have all been poor HMs in one way or another, I include the "in one way or another" part.
In addition to Jonathan, Jonty, who was fortyish, had plenty of interesting discussions about history, politics, and culture on live feed. His style was gentler than Jonathan's, and he was 100x more diplomatic in his conversations about HMs, but he was still fun to listen to.
Joney was only 36. HMs in their 30s can be good. But over 40? Not so far.
Perhaps it's time for a handy list of HMs over 40:
* Lesley Brain, 60 -- walked
* Jackie Travers, 29 -- irritating and made her daughter worse as a HM.
* Carole Vincent, 53 -- oppressive, fun-smothering controller
* Jonathan Durden, 49 -- had to leave for family reasons
* Ahmed Aghil, 44 -- over-rated minor character
* Belinda Harris-Reid, 44 -- loud, pretentious irritant whose only real contribution to the show was to drive Rachel and Kat to finally move to B-Block to escape her noise.
* Mario Marconi (Shaun Astbury), 43 -- behaved well (for once) during spit night but made no real difference to what happened. His 'health and safety' moments were more an irritant or joke than useful.
* Sandy Cumming, 43 -- walked
* Susie Verrico, 43 -- tedious dullard interested only in exposure
* Jo Butler, 51 -- who?
* Lisa Wallace, 41 -- negative presence.
* Victoria Eisermann, 41 -- first out
* Jemima Slade, 41 -- irritating and ridiculous.
* Pauline Bennett, 49 -- poisoned everything; evicted a.s.a.p. (week 2)
Here were the ones who were 40:
* Lisa Appleton, bb9, 40.
* Derek Laud, bb6, 40.
* Steve Gill, bb11, 40.
There's more controversy about whether they were good or bad HMs than about the ones over 40, though most people seem to think Steve was very poor value as a HM.
I think it's different for Celeb BB obviously but when the exec's are attempting to find HM's for the standard series they think only under 35's watch and therefore they want people that they think will interest this demographic (Helen,Steven, Ash,Winston etc) Not only do the people selected have to be young but they seemingly have to be arrogant, superficial and totally unappealing.
As Helen actually went on to win BB the producers will think they are doing something right.
Personally, I would love to see older, more eccentric quirky characters in BB.
It's the young cast that is probably one of civ bb's downfalls in it's lowish ratings.
People want a mixed age casting, not a clubbers 18-30 holiday camp.
I reckon if the house was more varied in age, the numbers would be considerably higher.
The tv viewing numbers, and winners of CBB, back this claim up.
I'd have loved Lesley more if she had the nerve to say exactly what she thought about Carole, Seany, et al as a parting gift to the viewers.
I still don't understand why she held back once she decided that she would go home. She asked to leave the show on Day Four, so there was plenty of time to be honest before she left. It would have made brilliant television, and the dynamics of the house might have changed for the better.
It's so strange that she backed away from BB and all its spin-off programs without giving her real opinions about the housemates, especially since she became so outspoken later in these forums, when it was too late to improve the show.
Laughs at your use of the word 'nerve'...................:)
Everything I do and say is done and said in my own name. You hide behind a number of user names and fake ages.....unless you really were born in 1997, as your profile says, and I wonder your parents let you stay up to watch BB when you were 10 but must applaud your memory.......it all matters a great deal less to me than it does to you. Whoever you are.
I never had any concept of 'improving the show'.:)
One reason I can think of is that CBB lasts 3 weeks while BB itself lasts anything up to 3 months. I just cant see most older hms being fame hungry enough to stick it that long, I know there are exceptions like Lisa and Mario, but the younger hms are far more willing to accept any level of humiliation and mind rotting boredom in order to have a chance to grasp the lowest rung of the zeleb ladder.
You are absolutely right. There are huge differences between BB and CBB. I am sure the celebrities do not go through months of mind-numbing auditions and are expected to make domestic arrangements for months ahead without any real idea of whether or not they are going in. They don't go through two weeks quarantine beforehand. Plus they have people to negotiate for them. I remember Ivana Trump had an agreement that she was not to be shown in her rollers. I couldn't get an agreement that I would be told if Mr Brain died. Big Brother does not negotiate. To stay in BB for 12 days is considered failure......to leave CBB then, or before, is unremarkable. Many 'older' CBB people have come to the same conclusion I did......there are better things to do. I would never speak for 'older people' but I would point out that older people generally have families and lives and interesting commitments and no realistic expectation of advancement. Certainly I never saw them at the auditions.
Lesley,you were fab - and gave us thebest quote IMO ever:
The housemates were allocating jobs around the house. They got to Lesley and asked what she would do.
Lesley: i'll do the post-modern irony.
Loved it!
As an 'older' woman, I really really miss having mature people on civilian BB. They bring wit, experience, eccentricity and interesting debate to the programme. The last civilian BB really suffered - the only 'conversations' revolved around arguing and bitching. But I agree that BB need to be clever in choosing their older housemates. The eccentric ones (and many of us are) are the most entertaining - because they give lessof a s!!t what people think.
When have older HMs in regular BB ever brought that? I am struggling to remember more than three decent 40+ housemates. Almost all of them have been either show-ruiners or dullards.
I'm young but I am a little "older" in what I enjoy, yes, I absolutely love partying and all that, but if someone was to ask me what my favourite music is, I would name the likes of Shalamar, Earth Wind and Fire, Sade... my Dad says I almost enjoy that music more than him
But yes, young ones of course, but instead of having 1 older HM in a regular series of 16 in total, I reckon 4 over 40s is needed, that would be a decent amount.
Sade ......my love is king....she's a great singer to bad we don't hear anything from her now
Comments
Less of the wannabe models and more mature people from different backgrounds (not necessarily unusual backgrounds) would be a lot better for me.
Apart from Lesley (who couldn't even hack it until the end of week 2 ) I'm struggling to think of any older civilian HMs who were witty, eccentric and interesting. Derek maybe and that's about it - he was utterly loathesome but admittedly a really good HM.
Ahmed was good value imo, Lisa and Mario were ahem 'interesting'... apart from that I can't think of any older HMs who have been much good at all, never mind fit in with your description. I think Dawn could have been good but again she gave up really early.
There have been loads of witty, eccentric, interesting celebs though - but I think older celebs have led very different lifestyles and have a much different outlook on life (and on BB) to the kind of ageing, slightly desperate last-chancers we've mostly had to endure in the civilian series.
You know this, I know this, anyone and everyone I speak to who's media-savvy knows this, and STILL the people in charge fail to grasp it. Most young people clearly have other interests, and TV execs need to wise up to the fact.
I meant that I really feel the lack of eccentric, witty etc. older housemates - and have seen them on CBB again and again. Like I said, it is up to BB to be cleverer in their selection of older housemates. Do you really think that there are no interesting, eccentric,witty and intelligent older people out there in 'ordinary' life?
I'd have loved Lesley more if she had the nerve to say exactly what she thought about Carole, Seany, et al as a parting gift to the viewers.
I still don't understand why she held back once she decided that she would go home. She asked to leave the show on Day Four, so there was plenty of time to be honest before she left. It would have made brilliant television, and the dynamics of the house might have changed for the better.
It's so strange that she backed away from BB and all its spin-off programs without giving her real opinions about the housemates, especially since she became so outspoken later in these forums, when it was too late to improve the show.
In Lesley's year alone, Jonathan made plenty of witty and interesting remarks. He was fiftyish and extremely successful and wealthy in real life, so he said whatever he liked. He was often quite amusing on live feed, in a dry and caustic way. In addition to Jonathan, Jonty, who was fortyish, had plenty of interesting discussions about history, politics, and culture on live feed. His style was gentler than Jonathan's, and he was 100x more diplomatic in his conversations about HMs, but he was still fun to listen to.
Only mentioned him because he was the oldest in his series.
All of you examples except for Aaron are from Celeb BB, and Aaron was only like 30.
Being over 40 is one of the most reliable indicators that a non-celeb HM will be poor in one way or another.
The problem isn't that they don't exist; it's finding some who want to go into BB and who will be able to hack it once there.
There are reasons, such as family and work responsibilities, why older people who might theoretically be good HMs will tend not even to try to get into BB. The ones who do try often have quite undesirable characteristics or are poor HMs for some other reason.
Yes, but he had to leave because of family responsibilities. Lesley couldn't take life in the house and also walked.
That's one reason why when I say HMs over 40 have all been poor HMs in one way or another, I include the "in one way or another" part.
Joney was only 36. HMs in their 30s can be good. But over 40? Not so far.
Perhaps it's time for a handy list of HMs over 40:
* Lesley Brain, 60 -- walked
* Jackie Travers, 29 -- irritating and made her daughter worse as a HM.
* Carole Vincent, 53 -- oppressive, fun-smothering controller
* Jonathan Durden, 49 -- had to leave for family reasons
* Ahmed Aghil, 44 -- over-rated minor character
* Belinda Harris-Reid, 44 -- loud, pretentious irritant whose only real contribution to the show was to drive Rachel and Kat to finally move to B-Block to escape her noise.
* Mario Marconi (Shaun Astbury), 43 -- behaved well (for once) during spit night but made no real difference to what happened. His 'health and safety' moments were more an irritant or joke than useful.
* Sandy Cumming, 43 -- walked
* Susie Verrico, 43 -- tedious dullard interested only in exposure
* Jo Butler, 51 -- who?
* Lisa Wallace, 41 -- negative presence.
* Victoria Eisermann, 41 -- first out
* Jemima Slade, 41 -- irritating and ridiculous.
* Pauline Bennett, 49 -- poisoned everything; evicted a.s.a.p. (week 2)
Here were the ones who were 40:
* Lisa Appleton, bb9, 40.
* Derek Laud, bb6, 40.
* Steve Gill, bb11, 40.
There's more controversy about whether they were good or bad HMs than about the ones over 40, though most people seem to think Steve was very poor value as a HM.
I think it's different for Celeb BB obviously but when the exec's are attempting to find HM's for the standard series they think only under 35's watch and therefore they want people that they think will interest this demographic (Helen,Steven, Ash,Winston etc) Not only do the people selected have to be young but they seemingly have to be arrogant, superficial and totally unappealing.
As Helen actually went on to win BB the producers will think they are doing something right.
Personally, I would love to see older, more eccentric quirky characters in BB.
People want a mixed age casting, not a clubbers 18-30 holiday camp.
I reckon if the house was more varied in age, the numbers would be considerably higher.
The tv viewing numbers, and winners of CBB, back this claim up.
Laughs at your use of the word 'nerve'...................:)
Everything I do and say is done and said in my own name. You hide behind a number of user names and fake ages.....unless you really were born in 1997, as your profile says, and I wonder your parents let you stay up to watch BB when you were 10 but must applaud your memory.......it all matters a great deal less to me than it does to you. Whoever you are.
I never had any concept of 'improving the show'.:)
Lesley Brain
www.lesleybrain.com
You are absolutely right. There are huge differences between BB and CBB. I am sure the celebrities do not go through months of mind-numbing auditions and are expected to make domestic arrangements for months ahead without any real idea of whether or not they are going in. They don't go through two weeks quarantine beforehand. Plus they have people to negotiate for them. I remember Ivana Trump had an agreement that she was not to be shown in her rollers. I couldn't get an agreement that I would be told if Mr Brain died. Big Brother does not negotiate. To stay in BB for 12 days is considered failure......to leave CBB then, or before, is unremarkable. Many 'older' CBB people have come to the same conclusion I did......there are better things to do. I would never speak for 'older people' but I would point out that older people generally have families and lives and interesting commitments and no realistic expectation of advancement. Certainly I never saw them at the auditions.
Lesley Brain
Sade ......my love is king....she's a great singer to bad we don't hear anything from her now