Maybe aye, maybe naw... as you graph showed maybe there needs to be realignment...
And as unionists told, it would take years for independence negotiations to be sorted out. Was Salmonds claims of Indy in 2016 not totally unrealistic?
I've never met a Scot who thinks we face a bright future in the UK, you'd have to be off your head not realise that things are pretty grim. I've heard people say they voted no because they're were scared of the economic consequences and that's perfectly valid. I've have people in my own family who voted no to protect their wealth and privilege, which I struggle with when they also claim to be socialists. I've also have family members who voted no because they thought a yes vote would give Catholics increased influence in politics. What I've not come across very often is people who have confidence in the UK or who oppose the idea of independence in principle that haven't also been wealthy or anti-Catholic. I don't believe 55% of Scots are happy with our society as it and I also don't believe 55% of Scots disagree with independence in principle. The element that fear and scaremongering played in securing a No victory has to be acknowledged.
All,of what you said might be true for some, not for the majority though. I've met plenty of Scots who thought we would be better off with the UK, over 55 percent of us did vote no and can still be optimistic for our future.
In fact I steadfastly believe that Scotlands future for the next ten years is going to be better than it would have been under independence.
You're quite right but the same same arguments made before independence were made before devolution but with the press onside a large yes majority was then secured. I don't a referendum campaign where the press almost exclusively supports one side can be said to have been fair. There were issue with bias from the start.
Actually I watched FMQ's yesterday and I thought it was clear just how a different a society Scotland is on it's way to becoming. Imagine a traditionally sexist, conservative, presbyterian society like Scotland having a female premier and debating with three other female party leaders and deputies in a devolved parliament that has embraced the PR voting system and enjoys an almost Scandinavian centre left political consensus. Compare that to Westminster and you see that the border already exists and has never really been about a line on a map. .
I watched FM questions yesterday and have to agre with the other poster, it was just more of the same that we see week in week out at westminster.
Scotland isn't really that much different from the rest of the UK after all.
You seeing very little hope or optimism for the future is your negative mindset. As someone else said, I wonder what era you grew up in. The 70's where a low and the opportunity open to all now are far greater than they were then.
How anyone who,lived through the seventies would want a return to the kind of socialism and Union dominated lifestyle we had then is beyond me. I'm all for social policies but the extreme left had us in a worse place than are now.
And as unionists told, it would take years for independence negotiations to be sorted out. Was Salmonds claims of Indy in 2016 not totally unrealistic?
I thought it was totally unrealistic, but I thought he would agree to more or less anything on the basis that he wouldn't risk losing control over the negotiating process - i.e. any longer than that and there would be a Scottish election.
and a sustained lower oil price would of course be a huge boost to economy ... will be lots of very happy people this winter saving loads on fuel/heating bills ... hauliers will be saving many £1000's every day
Perfectly true... not sure we would be saying that so much in an independent Scotland though, because I can't see those benefits outweighing the lost oil tax receipts.
I watched FM questions yesterday and have to agre with the other poster, it was just more of the same that we see week in week out at westminster.
Scotland isn't really that much different from the rest of the UK after all.
We could have had a live sex show from the MSP's in the chamber and you would still maintain that Scotland is no different to the rest of the UK. Not sure we want to picture that though.
All,of what you said might be true for some, not for the majority though. I've met plenty of Scots who thought we would be better off with the UK, over 55 percent of us did vote no and can still be optimistic for our future.
In fact I steadfastly believe that Scotlands future for the next ten years is going to be better than it would have been under independence.
The last few days have vindicated my vote.
You didn't seriously base your vote on oil revenue.
We could have had a live sex show from the MSP's in the chamber and you would still maintain that Scotland is no different to the rest of the UK. Not sure we want to picture that though.
Wouldn't surprise me... With Nicola married to the chief exec of the SNP and her deputy Stewart Hosie married to SNP MSP Shona Robertson, they seem to like keeping it under one roof...
You didn't seriously base your vote on oil revenue.
No, as you well know I based my vote on common sense and economics.
I never believed any of the rubbish that the SNP were saying about how good and easy independence would have been.
So recently we have seen oil prices falling and revenue Scotland having some teething problems and a slight 25 percent overspend on estimated costs.
And so, I feel like I made the right decision as the SNP Continually stated that they could easily manage to keep the start up costs down to next to nothing.
Clearly, they either lied about how easy it would all be, or they were plain dumb.
We could have had a live sex show from the MSP's in the chamber and you would still maintain that Scotland is no different to the rest of the UK. Not sure we want to picture that though.
I'm not entirely sure what you are getting that but the fact is that Scotland is the same as the rest of the UK.
We could have had a live sex show from the MSP's in the chamber and you would still maintain that Scotland is no different to the rest of the UK. Not sure we want to picture that though.
aren't you contradicting yourself a little here
you are basically saying in order to be seen as being different then something that would never actually happen has to happen
No, as you well know I based my vote on common sense and economics.
I never believed any of the rubbish that the SNP were saying about how good and easy independence would have been.
So recently we have seen oil prices falling and revenue Scotland having some teething problems and a slight 25 percent overspend on estimated costs.
And so, I feel like I made the right decision as the SNP Continually stated that they could easily manage to keep the start up costs down to next to nothing.
Clearly, they either lied about how easy it would all be, or they were plain dumb.
nobody implied it would be easy except for unionists saying that what SNP thought it would be, current oil price is irrelevant, troubles with the duplicated revenue Scotland are not fault of Scottish government & the next to nothing start up costs was just the £200Million for stage 1 of many.
nobody implied it would be easy except for unionists saying that what SNP thought it would be, current oil price is irrelevant, troubles with the duplicated revenue Scotland are not fault of Scottish government & the next to nothing start up costs was just the £200Million for stage 1 of many.
In the spirit of Panto....
Oh yes they did!
Set up costs were to be minimal. Oh I got it wrong earlier, Revenue Scotland set up costs were suppose to be a million but it's over four million now.
I see your now saying that the 200 million figure was just the start. Thanks for being honest after the event.....
People have been saying for the last 2 or 3 years that it's simply too precarious for Scotland to be fully independent.
Nobody knows what will happen to the oil industry. Nobody knew 3 years ago this would happen and nobody knows what will happen in the next 3 years. All predictions are futile. Might as well flip a coin to try and quantify the potential benefits of the oil industry to an independent Scotland.
you've believed too much of what media misquoted/omitted/invented & pumped out as fact. I could go on but I've done it over & over before ....
cant speak for black sheep but from my own experience of close to 25 years working as a project manager on large scale government projects both within government and as a self employed contractor I can say with confidence that the scale of the work required to create, merge, rebrand or separate the approximately 45 government departments was woefully underestimated during the campaign , both in terms of of cost and complexity
you've believed too much of what media misquoted/omitted/invented & pumped out as fact. I could go on but I've done it over & over before ....
So the anti independence media covered up the fact that set up costs would really be more than 200 million?
Why on Earth would they do that?
The reality is that just using one example, the setting up of revenue Scotland we see it already has cost four times more and it isn't clear if it will even be running on the 1st April.
All this money wasted to duplicate a system we already have and which Scottish taxpayers will pay more for when the new tax is introduced.
cant speak for black sheep but from my own experience of close to 25 years working as a project manager on large scale government projects both within government and as a self employed contractor I can say with confidence that the scale of the work required to create, merge, rebrand or separate the approximately 45 government departments was woefully underestimated during the campaign , both in terms of of cost and complexity
I have had similar experience working on smaller scale projects within government.
Nothing ever seems to happen on time or within budget in Public organisations. This despite the fact they are populated with some very talented folk.
It's not a negative mindset the reality is that most of my friends from school left Scotland after uni because the opportunities don't exist. Some went to London others abroad. That's not good enough. You should be able to find meaningful employment in your own country. In the UK the jobs are centred around the South East which harms Scotland and the other parts of England and Wales. I've got a positive mindset that Scotland will make it work despite the challenges we face but we won't achieve our full potential until we have the powers to do so.
Specifically, what are these powers? What is stopping Scotland from competing with the south east of England? I'm genuinely interested.
Business is always going to want to locate near other business, due to transport links, available employee and customer base, other businesses to trade with etc, so the south east will always be a magnet. The same would happen in an independent Scotland - a company is more likely to want to set up in Livingston than in Crianlarich.
What, specifically, does Scotland have to change to attract businesses that will create jobs in Scotland?
I think the result would be the same. Most people seem to be very rigid in their views on independence and -- if anything -- the referendum has probably made them dig their heels in further.
It was a no and by a decent margin. It's time to move on.
Comments
And as unionists told, it would take years for independence negotiations to be sorted out. Was Salmonds claims of Indy in 2016 not totally unrealistic?
All,of what you said might be true for some, not for the majority though. I've met plenty of Scots who thought we would be better off with the UK, over 55 percent of us did vote no and can still be optimistic for our future.
In fact I steadfastly believe that Scotlands future for the next ten years is going to be better than it would have been under independence.
The last few days have vindicated my vote.
I watched FM questions yesterday and have to agre with the other poster, it was just more of the same that we see week in week out at westminster.
Scotland isn't really that much different from the rest of the UK after all.
How anyone who,lived through the seventies would want a return to the kind of socialism and Union dominated lifestyle we had then is beyond me. I'm all for social policies but the extreme left had us in a worse place than are now.
I thought it was totally unrealistic, but I thought he would agree to more or less anything on the basis that he wouldn't risk losing control over the negotiating process - i.e. any longer than that and there would be a Scottish election.
Perfectly true... not sure we would be saying that so much in an independent Scotland though, because I can't see those benefits outweighing the lost oil tax receipts.
Yes it was. Salmond said this on January 6th 2012
You should send your face palm to him.
We could have had a live sex show from the MSP's in the chamber and you would still maintain that Scotland is no different to the rest of the UK. Not sure we want to picture that though.
You didn't seriously base your vote on oil revenue.
Wouldn't surprise me... With Nicola married to the chief exec of the SNP and her deputy Stewart Hosie married to SNP MSP Shona Robertson, they seem to like keeping it under one roof...
No, as you well know I based my vote on common sense and economics.
I never believed any of the rubbish that the SNP were saying about how good and easy independence would have been.
So recently we have seen oil prices falling and revenue Scotland having some teething problems and a slight 25 percent overspend on estimated costs.
And so, I feel like I made the right decision as the SNP Continually stated that they could easily manage to keep the start up costs down to next to nothing.
Clearly, they either lied about how easy it would all be, or they were plain dumb.
I'm not entirely sure what you are getting that but the fact is that Scotland is the same as the rest of the UK.
aren't you contradicting yourself a little here
you are basically saying in order to be seen as being different then something that would never actually happen has to happen
Pretty much.
In the spirit of Panto....
Oh yes they did!
Set up costs were to be minimal. Oh I got it wrong earlier, Revenue Scotland set up costs were suppose to be a million but it's over four million now.
I see your now saying that the 200 million figure was just the start. Thanks for being honest after the event.....
Nobody knows what will happen to the oil industry. Nobody knew 3 years ago this would happen and nobody knows what will happen in the next 3 years. All predictions are futile. Might as well flip a coin to try and quantify the potential benefits of the oil industry to an independent Scotland.
cant speak for black sheep but from my own experience of close to 25 years working as a project manager on large scale government projects both within government and as a self employed contractor I can say with confidence that the scale of the work required to create, merge, rebrand or separate the approximately 45 government departments was woefully underestimated during the campaign , both in terms of of cost and complexity
So the anti independence media covered up the fact that set up costs would really be more than 200 million?
Why on Earth would they do that?
The reality is that just using one example, the setting up of revenue Scotland we see it already has cost four times more and it isn't clear if it will even be running on the 1st April.
All this money wasted to duplicate a system we already have and which Scottish taxpayers will pay more for when the new tax is introduced.
I have had similar experience working on smaller scale projects within government.
Nothing ever seems to happen on time or within budget in Public organisations. This despite the fact they are populated with some very talented folk.
Specifically, what are these powers? What is stopping Scotland from competing with the south east of England? I'm genuinely interested.
Business is always going to want to locate near other business, due to transport links, available employee and customer base, other businesses to trade with etc, so the south east will always be a magnet. The same would happen in an independent Scotland - a company is more likely to want to set up in Livingston than in Crianlarich.
What, specifically, does Scotland have to change to attract businesses that will create jobs in Scotland?
It was a no and by a decent margin. It's time to move on.
Who indeed by living here in Scotland are all entitled to vote in a future independence referendum again if another one is offered.