Jimmy Saville to be revealed as a paedophile? (Part 7)

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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 87,224
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    Savile producer -no further police action
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22526051
  • skp20040skp20040 Posts: 66,872
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    i4u wrote: »
    Not sure what the following means...

    Possibly based on this, and this is just an example I found I am not saying this relates to his case and I would asume it is roughly the same acrosss the board for offences.

    http://www.cps.gov.uk/publications/agencies/rape_protocol.html

    32.At the consultation stage, when it is not yet anticipated that authority to charge will be given, the police will not be required to submit an evidential report but will share with the rape specialist such information as they have about the case

    37.Where a charging decision is made by CPS Direct, (INSERT AREA) CPS will ensure the immediate referral of the file to a rape specialist following charge. Alternatively, if CPS Direct advise the Police to submit a file for further advice by (INSERT AREA) CPS, such a file will be referred to a rape specialist

    I would assume if they did not submit a file does not mean they have not discussed it (as said there were consultations) and if no file was asked to be submitted that would say to me either there was no evidence to support the allegation or not enough evidence to continue with the case.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 595
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    So once again we have a gang of men jailed after years of abusing vulnerable girls. Yet at the same time men are being accused of assaults and rape done many years ago. For goodness sake, I have deep sympathy for the victims of rape and serious sexual assault but why do we have to use so much valuable police time investigating historic accusations being made now?
    The latest trial is the 3rd this year (?) and I am quite sure that this is still rife within certain communities. Please can we have more emphasis on getting these evil men into prison and helping the vulnerable girls they prey on?
    I dealt with the vulnerable girls for a number of years and still keep contact with many of them. They are incensed with the resources being used to pursue these historic cases when they know as well as I do that there are many more young vulnerable girls being forced to do things by gangs. These are not one offs by a celeb but continuing abuse by men who have no respect for females.
    I know I will be criticised for this post but I don't care. I DO care about the girls and boys being abused NOW by family members and by men like those jailed today.
  • honeythewitchhoneythewitch Posts: 37,237
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    So once again we have a gang of men jailed after years of abusing vulnerable girls. Yet at the same time men are being accused of assaults and rape done many years ago. For goodness sake, I have deep sympathy for the victims of rape and serious sexual assault but why do we have to use so much valuable police time investigating historic accusations being made now?
    The latest trial is the 3rd this year (?) and I am quite sure that this is still rife within certain communities. Please can we have more emphasis on getting these evil men into prison and helping the vulnerable girls they prey on?
    I dealt with the vulnerable girls for a number of years and still keep contact with many of them. They are incensed with the resources being used to pursue these historic cases when they know as well as I do that there are many more young vulnerable girls being forced to do things by gangs. These are not one offs by a celeb but continuing abuse by men who have no respect for females.
    I know I will be criticised for this post but I don't care. I DO care about the girls and boys being abused NOW by family members and by men like those jailed today.
    Me too. :) I am frustrated that resources are diverted away from people in urgent need, and that some of the complaints of knee touching and bottom pinching trivialises child abuse and rape.
    I am also beyond disgusted at those who have put in completely fictitious claims to make a bit of money (even though they were virtually invited to) because it will make it even more likely that victims will not be believed.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 87,224
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    There is no rationale whatsoever to lower the age of consent. Barbara Hewson should know better.
    Top barrister Barbara Hewson recently called for the age of consent to be lowered. Here the legal representative for over 60 of Jimmy Savile's victim's explains why she's wrong

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/there-is-no-rationale-whatsoever-to-lower-the-age-of-consent-barbara-hewson-should-know-better-8611624.html
  • honeythewitchhoneythewitch Posts: 37,237
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    There is no rationale whatsoever to lower the age of consent. Barbara Hewson should know better.
    Top barrister Barbara Hewson recently called for the age of consent to be lowered. Here the legal representative for over 60 of Jimmy Savile's victim's explains why she's wrong

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/there-is-no-rationale-whatsoever-to-lower-the-age-of-consent-barbara-hewson-should-know-better-8611624.html
    I strongly disagree with lowering the age of consent, but you can perhaps see the logic in the argument when we dish out contraception and abortions to thirteen year olds.
    It was the reason she gave ..."so it will end the persecution of old men" that was very sinister indeed, and doesn't even make sense. How would it stop the persecution? :confused:
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 87,224
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    A survivor has started a blog to tell his story
    http://survivorofchildabuse.blogspot.co.uk/

    One of the many issues that interest me is the role of social internet media in giving victims a voice.
  • skp20040skp20040 Posts: 66,872
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    I strongly disagree with lowering the age of consent, but you can perhaps see the logic in the argument when we dish out contraception and abortions to thirteen year olds.
    It was the reason she gave ..."so it will end the persecution of old men" that was very sinister indeed, and doesn't even make sense. How would it stop the persecution? :confused:

    I certainly would disagree with lowering the age of consent, whilst rape and absue would still be illegal it would give older people who are interested in younger people chance to coerce them into consensual sex which really was absue but get away with it.

    I think the law as it stands is fine , and when a child has sex underage say at 14 or 15 as some do then it should be looked at with common sense, did this occur with a 15 year old girl and her 16 year old boyfriend she has been with all through school, if so and it was consensual then let it go as it serves no purpose to punish anyone, not to be encouraged but not to overeact to either.

    However if it was between a 45 year old man and a 14 year old girl then the law is there to be used as it should be regardless of whether it was forced or groomed etc

    But to lower it opens up all new avenues for sexual predators to pray on younger people and get away with it .
  • honeythewitchhoneythewitch Posts: 37,237
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    skp20040 wrote: »
    I certainly would disagree with lowering the age of consent, whilst rape and absue would still be illegal it would give older people who are interested in younger people chance to coerce them into consensual sex which really was absue but get away with it.

    I think the law as it stands is fine , and when a child has sex underage say at 14 or 15 as some do then it should be looked at with common sense, did this occur with a 15 year old girl and her 16 year old boyfriend she has been with all through school, if so and it was consensual then let it go as it serves no purpose to punish anyone, not to be encouraged but not to overeact to either.

    However if it was between a 45 year old man and a 14 year old girl then the law is there to be used as it should be regardless of whether it was forced or groomed etc

    But to lower it opens up all new avenues for sexual predators to pray on younger people and get away with it .

    I think most of us find the idea of lowering the age of consent to thirteen repugnant even without the "saving old men from persecution" aspect.
  • davidmcndavidmcn Posts: 12,086
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    some of the complaints of knee touching and bottom pinching trivialises child abuse and rape.

    As I said before, I've seen nothing to suggest the police are investigating allegations of mere historical knee touching or bottom pinching. Have you?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 87,224
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    Last night's Newsnight did an effective item on the appalling Oxford gang case, I thought.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01sjjw3/Newsnight_14_05_2013/
    It's the first item.
  • honeythewitchhoneythewitch Posts: 37,237
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    davidmcn wrote: »
    As I said before, I've seen nothing to suggest the police are investigating allegations of mere historical knee touching or bottom pinching. Have you?

    Yes I have.
    The girl who's bottom was (possibly) pinched live on top of the pops claimed it destroyed her subsequent marriage and has filed a claim for compensation, and Stuart hall actually confessed to what could well have been an accidental touch of the breast over clothing in a public place while having his arm around someone who didn't move away or move his arm.
    Among the horrific accounts of child abuse, molestation and rape there are many claims of this type.
  • davidmcndavidmcn Posts: 12,086
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    Yes I have.
    The girl who's bottom was (possibly) pinched live on top of the pops

    Investigated by the police?
    has filed a claim for compensation

    Cite?
    , and Stuart hall actually confessed to what could well have been an accidental touch of the breast

    He pled guilty to it being a sexual assault. If it was accidental it wouldn't have been a crime. It was on a charge sheet which went up to and including rape (and may have been useful corroboration of the more serious assaults).

    Which individuals have the police investigated merely because of historical allegations of knee groping or bum pinching?
  • honeythewitchhoneythewitch Posts: 37,237
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    davidmcn wrote: »
    Investigated by the police?



    Cite?



    He pled guilty to it being a sexual assault. If it was accidental it wouldn't have been a crime. It was on a charge sheet which went up to and including rape (and may have been useful corroboration of the more serious assaults).

    Which individuals have the police investigated merely because of historical allegations of knee groping or bum pinching?

    Stuart Hall must have the best memory in the world to remember a girl he only met for a couple of minutes in the seventies, and also to remember that it was a deliberate grope not accidental, which must surely happen along with the intentional gropes because sometimes breasts get in the way if you hug or move your arm when someone puts their arm around you.
    I dont think this charge would have got to court on its own or resulted in a conviction.

    I dont think he was charged with the rape. That one was left on file wasn't it?
    Would he have pleaded guilty as charged in a deal to avoid the rape case? Is that possible? :confused:


    It is implied in several articles that Liz Dux is representing Sylvia Edwards (TOTP possible bottom pinch girl) but I cant find a definite answer.
    In the interview below she tells of her intention to involve the police.

    QUOTE
    "But now she plans to join more than 300 victims of the Jim’ll Fix It star who have so far complained to police".
    END QUOTE.

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4612576/Millions-watched-as-Jimmy-Savile-molested-me-on-tv.html
  • honeythewitchhoneythewitch Posts: 37,237
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    Last night's Newsnight did an effective item on the appalling Oxford gang case, I thought.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01sjjw3/Newsnight_14_05_2013/
    It's the first item.

    Thank you for the link, Sad, (and all the others:)) I had missed this.
    It is very hard to watch isn't it? And almost unbelievable that the girls were supposed to be "looked after" and their calls for help turned away by the police.
    Absolutely sickening.
  • skp20040skp20040 Posts: 66,872
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    Stuart Hall must have the best memory in the world to remember a girl he only met for a couple of minutes in the seventies, and also to remember that it was a deliberate grope not accidental, which must surely happen along with the intentional gropes because sometimes breasts get in the way if you hug or move your arm when someone puts their arm around you.
    I dont think this charge would have got to court on its own or resulted in a conviction.

    I dont think he was charged with the rape. That one was left on file wasn't it?
    Would he have pleaded guilty as charged in a deal to avoid the rape case? Is that possible? :confused:


    It is implied in several articles that Liz Dux is representing Sylvia Edwards (TOTP possible bottom pinch girl) but I cant find a definite answer.
    In the interview below she tells of her intention to involve the police
    .

    QUOTE
    "But now she plans to join more than 300 victims of the Jim’ll Fix It star who have so far complained to police".
    END QUOTE.

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4612576/Millions-watched-as-Jimmy-Savile-molested-me-on-tv.html

    According to this it would seem she did go to the police

    http://news.sky.com/story/1036598/savile-report-reveals-full-scale-of-sex-abuse

    Sylvia Edwards says she was 19 when when she was abused by Jimmy Savile on of Top of the Pops in 1976. She says she was glad she came forward and told authorities about it.

    Now to me whilstt he was out of order a pinched bum does not come under abuse , I would rather the real absue victims who suffered were looked after , a pinch on the bum may be unwanted and unpleasant but its nothing compared to what some kids went through.
  • honeythewitchhoneythewitch Posts: 37,237
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    skp20040 wrote: »
    According to this it would seem she did go to the police

    http://news.sky.com/story/1036598/savile-report-reveals-full-scale-of-sex-abuse

    Sylvia Edwards says she was 19 when when she was abused by Jimmy Savile on of Top of the Pops in 1976. She says she was glad she came forward and told authorities about it.

    Now to me whilstt he was out of order a pinched bum does not come under abuse , I would rather the real absue victims who suffered were looked after , a pinch on the bum may be unwanted and unpleasant but its nothing compared to what some kids went through.

    I agree. It may of course be possible that I am misjudging her, and that Savile had his hands on more personal bits and the other audience members witnessed it, but it didn't look that way on the video.
    Her face registered surprise but not shock or upset, and the people around didn't look as if they had seen anything untoward.
    He had no right to even pinch her bum and he deserved a thump, but I am not sure she deserves compensation, particularly as the money was meant for charity and to provide life saving hospital equipment.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 595
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    I agree. It may of course be possible that I am misjudging her, and that Savile had his hands on more personal bits and the other audience members witnessed it, but it didn't look that way on the video.
    Her face registered surprise but not shock or upset, and the people around didn't look as if they had seen anything untoward.
    He had no right to even pinch her bum and he deserved a thump, but I am not sure she deserves compensation, particularly as the money was meant for charity and to provide life saving hospital equipment.

    I completely agree with this. I have watched that video several times and at no time does she show anything other than surprise. In fact they all seem to be laughing including her. He shouldn't have touched her or anyone else but it certainly doesn't look as though it was something that blighted her life.

    To continue my rant about wasting police resources, what on earth are the Met doing sending senior officers to Australia to investigate Rolf Harris? Couldn't interviews be done on line in the presence of local officers? Waste of money and time that could be better used dealing with current abuse.
  • skp20040skp20040 Posts: 66,872
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    I completely agree with this. I have watched that video several times and at no time does she show anything other than surprise. In fact they all seem to be laughing including her. He shouldn't have touched her or anyone else but it certainly doesn't look as though it was something that blighted her life.

    To continue my rant about wasting police resources, what on earth are the Met doing sending senior officers to Australia to investigate Rolf Harris? Couldn't interviews be done on line in the presence of local officers? Waste of money and time that could be better used dealing with current abuse.

    I think the CPs and polcie are all afarid of being accused of covering up so have gone from one extreme to another.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 915
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    skp20040 wrote: »
    I think the CPs and polcie are all afarid of being accused of covering up so have gone from one extreme to another.

    Or maybe they are just doing their jobs!! Just a thought!
  • skp20040skp20040 Posts: 66,872
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    Daisydoes wrote: »
    Or maybe they are just doing their jobs!! Just a thought!

    As was said there is no reason that interview could not be done in the first instance by videolink with Australian officers present.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 915
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    skp20040 wrote: »
    As was said there is no reason that interview could not be done in the first instance by videolink with Australian officers present.

    No reason??? And you know this how?? Maybe these allegations are too serious to be done over a video link! So many posters on here who are blaming the victims, police, CPS or media for this "witch hunt!" Not you personally just in general
  • sozzled2daysozzled2day Posts: 1,217
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    Suspects should have right to anonymity at arrest - Theresa May.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22548065

    (I agree with her for once)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 87,224
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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 87,224
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    BBC Look North did an item tonight about the proportion of Savile's Yorkshire victims that were in hospitals
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01sfwqx/Look_North_(Yorkshire)_15_05_2013/
    From 3mins in, although the first item is about abuse too.
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