Well purely from an equality standpoint would you say the same if minorities or gays were barred from entry on the same basis? Just playing devils advocate.
Probably. I don't really see a problem with groups of people wanting to organise something by and for themselves. It's not like anyone is being stopped from entering any of the other hundreds of events up and down the country. Equality doesn't mean everything has to be exactly equal, it just means people have the same opportunities and rights. The existence of a female-only race does not prevent a man entering or organising a men only race, or indeed a mixed event.
RFL started off as a small event because a group of women wanted an event to call their own, and it grew organically in popularity because women liked the format. If it was opened up to men as well, that uniqueness would be lost.
Would women really say "Well sod it then, I'm not doing it anymore" if men were allowed to take part?
Sounds like a drastic case of cutting your nose off to spite your face
I don't know. Why don't you email them and ask? I would assume, seeing as CR are a huge charity and raise a lot of money though, that they did in fact spend more than 5 minutes thinking about it.
Probably. I don't really see a problem with groups of people wanting to organise something by and for themselves. It's not like anyone is being stopped from entering any of the other hundreds of events up and down the country. Equality doesn't mean everything has to be exactly equal, it just means people have the same opportunities and rights. The existence of a female-only race does not prevent a man entering or organising a men only race, or indeed a mixed event.
RFL started off as a small event because a group of women wanted an event to call their own, and it grew organically in popularity because women liked the format. If it was opened up to men as well, that uniqueness would be lost.
Trying to rationalise this in the days of christian b&b owners not being allowed to control who stays in their b&b does seem anacronistic. Fwiw I have no problem whatsoever with rfl but im not one always banging on about equality and discrimination.
I think the problem seems to be that those who squeal in outrage about men-only clubs don't apparently have any issue with female-only charity races. Surely it's nothing but rank hypocrisy?
Well I don't mind men only clubs to be honest... nor women only either, just as I have no issue with men only charity races.
Trying to rationalise this in the days of christian b&b owners not being allowed to control who stays in their b&b does seem anacronistic. Fwiw I have no problem whatsoever with rfl but im not one always banging on about equality and discrimination.
There is a big difference between an event such as the rfl and a business, but I'm sure you are aware of that.
Cancer is not a gender issue, to make it so it mental.
When someone can show me that men are not effected by 'woman' type cancers then I'll reconsider.
Until then, if a bloke lost his mother to breast cancer and wants to run, let him. If a man lost his daughter to cervical cancer and wants to raise awareness, let him. Etc.
I haven't read all the posts, but my sister is a charity fundraiser for a local, very popular and well known Hospice. They have numerous charity events throughout the year, one of which is a women only event, they made it women only due to research which suggested they would get more participation if it was women only. This has proven overwhelmingly successful and participation increases every year. Needless to say all genders benefit from the money raised from the event.
I would imagine it is a similar thing with RFL, at the end of the day it's all about raising money to help prevent or treat cancer. As others have said there are men only events too, my cousin did a men only bike ride for testicular cancer a couple of years ago. So if keeping an event either women or men only raises more money, then fair enough, we all benefit in the long run.
Probably. I don't really see a problem with groups of people wanting to organise something by and for themselves. It's not like anyone is being stopped from entering any of the other hundreds of events up and down the country. Equality doesn't mean everything has to be exactly equal, it just means people have the same opportunities and rights. The existence of a female-only race does not prevent a man entering or organising a men only race, or indeed a mixed event.
RFL started off as a small event because a group of women wanted an event to call their own, and it grew organically in popularity because women liked the format. If it was opened up to men as well, that uniqueness would be lost.
In this day and age that cannot be an excuse though, I really don't think it can.
Not that I agree with dan_blamires usually but he does have a point.
You could just as easily tell a gay couple "Well there are plenty of other guesthouses up and down the country you can stay in."
I don't know. Why don't you email them and ask? I would assume, seeing as CR are a huge charity and raise a lot of money though, that they did in fact spend more than 5 minutes thinking about it.
It's at odds with the survey on here then.
I suspect the number of women so bloody-minded as to abandon an important fundraiser for their ill or remembered friend/relative in the name of 'loss of uniqueness' would be more than counterbalanced by the number of men joining the RfL.
However it would destroy the nature of the event. A lot of women do this in fancy dress and take the whole thing as a bit of a good natured laugh, doing it at their own pace, for a good cause.
Invite the boys into something with the word 'Race' and they're going to get competitive, who's finishing where, personal bests etc. Will kill the spirit of the event somewhat.
I understand why it is women only and it's probably best it remain so.
However it would destroy the nature of the event. A lot of women do this in fancy dress and take the whole thing as a bit of a good natured laugh, doing it at their own pace, for a good cause.
like both women and men do in events such as the Cardiff half marathon then.
However it would destroy the nature of the event. A lot of women do this in fancy dress and take the whole thing as a bit of a good natured laugh, doing it at their own pace, for a good cause.
Invite the boys into something with the word 'Race' and they're going to get competitive, who's finishing where, personal bests etc. Will kill the spirit of the event somewhat.
I understand why it is women only and it's probably best it remain so.
Which is exactly the same as the various marathons around the world, where both men and women take part in vast numbers.
Which is exactly the same as the various marathons around the world, where both men and women take part in vast numbers.
And?
It's a bit like hen party. Far fewer women would go if men were invited. This whole sexual equality crap is rather pathetic at times. And this is one of those. Sometimes men and women want to do things without the other gender. And that shouldn't be stopped because a few idiots/spoilsports are crying out for 100% sexual equality.
This subject raises it's ugly head every year. Imagine if all the people complaining (I'm not just talking about people on DS) instead of putting time and effort into moaning had put all that time and effort into promoting one of the male only races. By now there could have been a male only race as popular as Race For Life. But no instead they just keep complaining.
I suspect the number of women so bloody-minded as to abandon an important fundraiser for their ill or remembered friend/relative in the name of 'loss of uniqueness' would be more than counterbalanced by the number of men joining the RfL.
A poll on ds voted on by, oh, 50 people, is hardly a representative study, is it?
I'm indifferent on the race itself so haven't voted. Afterall its meant to be a bit of fun and if women feel intimidated by men racing then it puts a damper on the spirit of the event.
My only slight irritation with it is regards to some of the marketing implying that -
Only women get cancer
Only women get breast cancer
Only women suffer as a result of cancer
Admittedly CR seem to have now started to address the 3rd point in their recent ads.
In this day and age that cannot be an excuse though, I really don't think it can.
Not that I agree with dan_blamires usually but he does have a point.
You could just as easily tell a gay couple "Well there are plenty of other guesthouses up and down the country you can stay in."
I think it's anachronistic.
I understand too - if we are talking about equality of outcome (ie everyone gets to race and everyone gets a room in a B&B), but I do see a difference - no-one is excluding men from Race for Life because they don't like men or are prejudiced against them or their behaviour.
The law recognises this difference - allowing that men's clubs can still limit their membership to men if they wish (and the Women's Institute/Towns Womens Guild etc) - as long as they don't have discriminatory facilities within the club (like women having to use a different entrance; or having to sit in a different room when visiting). The law recognises that in a social setting, people may wish to join together based around their gender (or some other 'protected characteristic' such as disability or age) and a men's club... or a club for deaf people or an over-60s club are not discriminating against women, or the hearing, or the young because of prejudice against those groups. RfL is like a temporary social club that lasts for a few hours... and as such I don't have a problem with it.
It is a fine line and I accept that - if RfL were saying that they don't want men running because men are not as good as women; or they find men disgusting; or God told them men should not run... then I'd be complaining too. But it isn't that at all... any more that the Women's Institute don't allow men to join because they don't think men are good enough to make jam.
I think it's pretty rubbish that anyone has to race anywhere, with anyone, to raise money for cancer research.
Yes, I would agree with that, but it's hugely therapeutic if you have lost someone to cancer imo. Friends and relatives feel so helpless in the face of cancer but this makes you feel that you can make a difference, however small. It also makes you realise that so many others are in the same position and you are not alone.
As for the OP, then I don't see why men shouldn't run, but there are alternative men only events.
A poll on ds voted on by, oh, 50 people, is hardly a representative study, is it?
Well, since CRUK have not published the data that they have based their decisions on, we don't know whether their survey is any more representative than this straw poll.
Comments
Probably. I don't really see a problem with groups of people wanting to organise something by and for themselves. It's not like anyone is being stopped from entering any of the other hundreds of events up and down the country. Equality doesn't mean everything has to be exactly equal, it just means people have the same opportunities and rights. The existence of a female-only race does not prevent a man entering or organising a men only race, or indeed a mixed event.
RFL started off as a small event because a group of women wanted an event to call their own, and it grew organically in popularity because women liked the format. If it was opened up to men as well, that uniqueness would be lost.
I don't know. Why don't you email them and ask? I would assume, seeing as CR are a huge charity and raise a lot of money though, that they did in fact spend more than 5 minutes thinking about it.
Trying to rationalise this in the days of christian b&b owners not being allowed to control who stays in their b&b does seem anacronistic. Fwiw I have no problem whatsoever with rfl but im not one always banging on about equality and discrimination.
Well I don't mind men only clubs to be honest... nor women only either, just as I have no issue with men only charity races.
How about straight only b&b's?
There is a big difference between an event such as the rfl and a business, but I'm sure you are aware of that.
There does seem to be a softening of attitudes to letting men in.
Some would say charity is big business nowadays.
30 charity chiefs paid more than £100,000
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10224104/30-charity-chiefs-paid-more-than-100000.html
Cancer Research UK Chief - 140,000 pa wage
When someone can show me that men are not effected by 'woman' type cancers then I'll reconsider.
Until then, if a bloke lost his mother to breast cancer and wants to run, let him. If a man lost his daughter to cervical cancer and wants to raise awareness, let him. Etc.
http://www.boysbeatingcancer.org/
http://www.manontherun.org/
I would imagine it is a similar thing with RFL, at the end of the day it's all about raising money to help prevent or treat cancer. As others have said there are men only events too, my cousin did a men only bike ride for testicular cancer a couple of years ago. So if keeping an event either women or men only raises more money, then fair enough, we all benefit in the long run.
In this day and age that cannot be an excuse though, I really don't think it can.
Not that I agree with dan_blamires usually but he does have a point.
You could just as easily tell a gay couple "Well there are plenty of other guesthouses up and down the country you can stay in."
I think it's anachronistic.
It's at odds with the survey on here then.
I suspect the number of women so bloody-minded as to abandon an important fundraiser for their ill or remembered friend/relative in the name of 'loss of uniqueness' would be more than counterbalanced by the number of men joining the RfL.
However it would destroy the nature of the event. A lot of women do this in fancy dress and take the whole thing as a bit of a good natured laugh, doing it at their own pace, for a good cause.
Invite the boys into something with the word 'Race' and they're going to get competitive, who's finishing where, personal bests etc. Will kill the spirit of the event somewhat.
I understand why it is women only and it's probably best it remain so.
like both women and men do in events such as the Cardiff half marathon then.
Which is exactly the same as the various marathons around the world, where both men and women take part in vast numbers.
And?
It's a bit like hen party. Far fewer women would go if men were invited. This whole sexual equality crap is rather pathetic at times. And this is one of those. Sometimes men and women want to do things without the other gender. And that shouldn't be stopped because a few idiots/spoilsports are crying out for 100% sexual equality.
A poll on ds voted on by, oh, 50 people, is hardly a representative study, is it?
Indeed. Those trying to make ( a silly point IMHO) are more likely to vote than people like me who really can't be arsed.
My only slight irritation with it is regards to some of the marketing implying that -
Only women get cancer
Only women get breast cancer
Only women suffer as a result of cancer
Admittedly CR seem to have now started to address the 3rd point in their recent ads.
I understand too - if we are talking about equality of outcome (ie everyone gets to race and everyone gets a room in a B&B), but I do see a difference - no-one is excluding men from Race for Life because they don't like men or are prejudiced against them or their behaviour.
The law recognises this difference - allowing that men's clubs can still limit their membership to men if they wish (and the Women's Institute/Towns Womens Guild etc) - as long as they don't have discriminatory facilities within the club (like women having to use a different entrance; or having to sit in a different room when visiting). The law recognises that in a social setting, people may wish to join together based around their gender (or some other 'protected characteristic' such as disability or age) and a men's club... or a club for deaf people or an over-60s club are not discriminating against women, or the hearing, or the young because of prejudice against those groups. RfL is like a temporary social club that lasts for a few hours... and as such I don't have a problem with it.
It is a fine line and I accept that - if RfL were saying that they don't want men running because men are not as good as women; or they find men disgusting; or God told them men should not run... then I'd be complaining too. But it isn't that at all... any more that the Women's Institute don't allow men to join because they don't think men are good enough to make jam.
Yes, I would agree with that, but it's hugely therapeutic if you have lost someone to cancer imo. Friends and relatives feel so helpless in the face of cancer but this makes you feel that you can make a difference, however small. It also makes you realise that so many others are in the same position and you are not alone.
As for the OP, then I don't see why men shouldn't run, but there are alternative men only events.
Well, since CRUK have not published the data that they have based their decisions on, we don't know whether their survey is any more representative than this straw poll.