Simple my friend. OTHER stations are chasing ratings to keep shareholders and accountants happy, hence the very limited play list.
Caroline on the other hand doesn't have shareholders to pander to;they play the music that they want to play for an audience that isn't catered for by main stream stations and all they need to do is break even. Plus they have a very robust support group which supplies a fair bit of the current financing.
But the 4 biggest UK radio groups do not have shareholders. On stations like Jazz FM and Planetrock djs chose their own music and have got on air by normal paths so although I like the idea of Caroline why should it have special treatment for AM when it could raise money (like it did with Sky) to go on DAB muxes in say London under existing routes like other stations have done.
But the 4 biggest UK radio groups do not have shareholders. On stations like Jazz FM and Planetrock djs chose their own music and have got on air by normal paths so although I like the idea of Caroline why should it have special treatment for AM when it could raise money (like it did with Sky) to go on DAB muxes in say London under existing routes like other stations have done.
Why should the whole of DAB have special treatment (Government "switchover" plan) when it has failed in the marketplace?
DAB works well in London
Don't know ask Andrew Mitchell mp post 26
The answer is, it shouldn't have special treatment. Your London answer is hardly reason enough to destroy FM and have people forcibly get DAB for what they already listen to out of choice (and I'm not getting into that debate yet again).
If AM has space on it, let people use it, what a waste if they aren't allowed to. There are plenty of AM sets out there and despite what 5Live and others would like, despite fall-off of audience, many people still listen, there's also nothing to say if new services are forthcoming, the slide can't be halted/reversed.
AM is good for a lot of us, no-one is forcing anyone to listen and those who want to or those who want to provide services should be free to do so.
...... although I like the idea of Caroline why should it have special treatment for AM when it could raise money (like it did with Sky) to go on DAB muxes in say London under existing routes like other stations have done.
I don't think Caroline are asking to be given a frequency for nothing, what I believe they are asking for is that Ofcom really does try to find a spare slot and offer it to Caroline at a sensible rate instead of the station having to bid for it and so probably push the price beyond their reach.
They stick to the AM band simply because of their tradition and the fact that they are already equipped to broadcast on that medium. If they were to go for FM or DAB it would mean further outlay for capital equipment on top of the cost of the license.
For the last hour (since 6am Sunday) it's been non-stop religious preaching with no music at all.
According to the schedule, this is a 4 hour show.
That's surprising because the Westminster Calvary Chapel shows usually feature a lot of music, Alwyn Wall is a good musician, the examples of music from his band I've heard are guitar based soft rock with some good solos, fits into Caroline's format, liike good gospel music you can enjoy it without being committed to the Christian faith. His guitarist used to be in 70's progressive rock band Gravy Train who had albums on Vertigo and Dawn. Slide along 1 minute if you want to miss the introduction and hear an example of their music, you didn't get this on The World Tomorrow!: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icbZJ4_RTdk
But the 4 biggest UK radio groups do not have shareholders. On stations like Jazz FM and Planetrock djs chose their own music and have got on air by normal paths so although I like the idea of Caroline why should it have special treatment for AM when it could raise money (like it did with Sky) to go on DAB muxes in say London under existing routes like other stations have done.
You seem to be missing the point, Caroline transmitted on medium wave when they were offshore and the groups you quote have no interest in it:
"Now, in 2010, as the radio industry is preparing for an almost wholesale move to DAB, medium wave is being abandoned. OFCOM, who regulate radio communications on behalf of government, announced four years ago that there would be no further licences issued for medium wave."
"The commercial operators concede that there is no financial value in broadcasting on am, nor with our format; we would not offer competition to the existing operators."
At the O2 exhibition they ran they did have a lot of 60s memorabilia but tied that in with how the station developed into an album station in the 70's and is still following that format today. The same thing could be done if they are able to get a permanent anchorage with public access and either broadcast from the ship or use it as a studio base tied in with a similar exhibition. Gravesham Council see The Ross Revenge as a good tourist attraction.
Most stations outside the main commercial radio groups are niche stations anyway, hanssolo quotes Planet Rock and Jazz FM.
Caroline has volunteer presenters, including some who currently work in commercial radio, listener subscriptions, some income from Calvary Chapel, some music programmes which IIRC are paid for, some advertising, income from public visits to the ship and income from the webshop. Take all that into account and the AM service becomes viable.
I don't think Caroline are asking to be given a frequency for nothing, what I believe they are asking for is that Ofcom really does try to find a spare slot and offer it to Caroline at a sensible rate instead of the station having to bid for it and so probably push the price beyond their reach.
They stick to the AM band simply because of their tradition and the fact that they are already equipped to broadcast on that medium. If they were to go for FM or DAB it would mean further outlay for capital equipment on top of the cost of the license.
At least, that is how I see it.
But I think what the letter from Andrew Mitchell is saying under the current laws no new medium/high power analogue licences are being issued (and anyway the ITU have not permitted any), say if a medium power London AM station like Sunrise goes bust (unlikely) they maybe able buy the licence from the administrators, perhaps they should have made a bid for Club Asia and got a format change. but they can go down the route (like other new stations) and use DAB.
I believe that no suitable AM medium wave frequencies are available to support new licencies of any signifant scale, particularly in the south east of England. Whilst Ofcom may continue to use low power medium wave frequencies for community radio licensing, there will not be any brand new commercial radio licences advertised on medium wave.
If an existing medium wave commercial station ceases broacasting or surrenders it licence, Offcom will asses whether to advertise a new commercial radio licence using that frequency. I believe that with this in mind, Ofcom has noted Radio Caroline's interest in the availability of such frequencies.
I understand the other option available to RC is to consider using frequencies that are currently utilised by BBC local radio on MW in the South East. However such an approach potentially risks depriving some listeners of their BBC local radio service and would obviously require the BBC's agreement.
There are of course, other potential platforms on which RC could secure carriage. Most notably is DAB digital radio and the Goverment published in 2010 the Digital Radio Action Plan to assess the best route for moving forward with a proposed switchover."
If Caroline get to use a medium power analogue frequency which covers London by day and is clear to cover the UK at night which could be quite valuable, even in 2014, they would have had special treatment compared to other stations which have had to go down the digital only path.
I received a reply this week from my MP Dave Anderson. He just encloses his reply from DCMS. This is worded very differently from your replies (above). However it has OFCOM's "computa says no" attitude(see "My MP Says NO" on radiocarolineonair.com.)
I have e-mailed back 1) Will he sign the EDM?
2) Will he look at the above web site for more info.?
3) Will he support treating Radio Caroline as a special case?
KEEP politely BADGERING YOUR MP. They are our paid representatives in Parliament.
Press On
Dan
Yesterday evening my MP e-mailed me back personally :-"I am a long time Caroline supporter and as you know I did write to the Minister after receiving your e-mail. I would be happy to follow up with the Minister re your point about Caroline being a special case, which it clearly is. I will check out the web site as well. Dave Anderson MP." AS I SAID ABOVE POLITELY BADGER YOUR MP. In my case it's brought results. Mike Brill & Ray Copeland- your are Caroline men. If you contact Dave Anderson he may be willing to be an MP Supporter on the campaign web site. DAN
Caroline has volunteer presenters, including some who currently work in commercial radio, listener subscriptions, some income from Calvary Chapel, some music programmes which IIRC are paid for, some advertising, income from public visits to the ship and income from the webshop. Take all that into account and the AM service becomes viable.
Putting the arguments for using AM aside for the moment Mike,what would be the relative costs if DAB were to be considered as a viable alternative.
Sooner or later the government will get it's way and force all stations onto that platform in the same way as it has done with TV. It may take a few years to implement that policy but it surely will happen in time. If Caroline tries to wait it out until the end the cost of a DAB license may have gone through the roof by then
I also appreciate that few vehicles are as yet equipped to receive DAB, which is partly the point in having the transmission on AM, but long term even Caroline is likely to have to take this route.
Colourful decided to drop Sky to go on DAB, as radio via DAB is higher profile and use than radio via Sky TV in London!
Suspect Colourful would prefer a London wide analogue licence which they can't get.
Maybe one option which Ofcom/DCMS might agree to within the existing broadcast acts is to get a 50W AM community licence station on the ship for the local area and DAB for London wide coverage, some stations like Desi in London and Angel in the Solent are now doing this.
If however it must be higher power AM, notice Classic Gold were thinking of moving 1521 from Crawley to London before the merger with Capital Gold, this would be a good frequency to use as this useful chart shows 1521 is clear, http://frequencyfinder.org.uk/AM_153_1611.pdf
but doubt if Global will give it up before 2015 (even as it has only about 5000 current listeners) and if it can be increased beyond 0.65Kw?
I seem to remember Primetime Radio paying about £1M per annum for a national channel, however they pulled out because of the uncertainty of them retaining their digital channel well into the future.
Radio Caroline would be unable to raise this kind of money without attracting investors, who would wish to become part owners in the company and therefore have a place on the board of management. Any change of ownership, even if only partial, seems to have been resisted in recent years.
It's no secret Ofcom want the UK to be the first nation to be have an digital broadcasting service, so the likelyhood of them licensing a stations after any UK MW switch off seems unlikely. I would guess a transmitter in mainland Europe would offer the best prospects.
I doubt it, maybe that was thought about when DRM was being envisaged? Radio Ropa used 261 until 31.12.2000, closed as they couldn't get FM frequencies and longwave+satellite was financially unsustainable. Due to many receivers not having longwave they were selling the FX10 for 20 German marks, a single frequency receiver!
If however it must be higher power AM, notice Classic Gold were thinking of moving 1521 from Crawley to London before the merger with Capital Gold, this would be a good frequency to use as this useful chart shows 1521 is clear, http://frequencyfinder.org.uk/AM_153_1611.pdf
but doubt if Global will give it up before 2015 (even as it has only about 5000 current listeners) and if it can be increased beyond 0.65Kw?
1521 was one of the 10 AM frequencies identified by Ofcom in 2004 as having development potential, it's the former BBC Radio Nottingham frequency.
Mike, why don't Caroline ask for 846khz. It's been vacated for a number of years. Can't really see the Italians firing up the 500 watt transmitter again.
It's been suggested that anything under 1kw is not an issue for the ITU. How true that actually is I have no idea
Mike, why don't Caroline ask for 846khz. It's been vacated for a number of years. Can't really see the Italians firing up the 500 watt transmitter again.
It's been suggested that anything under 1kw is not an issue for the ITU. How true that actually is I have no idea
RAI were recently using 846 with 25kw of DRM which could have caused problems, but seem to have finished the tests as there are no more transmissions. http://www.mediasuk.org/archive/palomba_e.html
Reading the programming philosophy, I would have thought the demographic for this was miniscule, and in any case MW is a totally unsuitable medium for this sort of music. DAB would be far better.
I'd say most of your "slightly discerning" (what an odd phrase!) potential audience are firmly established with R2 or 6Music.
I think they want a MW frquency for nostalgic purposes. Okay it may not sound as good as DAB however people who used to listen to Radio Caroline in the olden days will be familiar to the type of quality and the same type of quality will be nostalgic in itself, snaps, crackles, pops, hiss, the lot.
It would also be a good way to convince people that AM radio has not served its purpose yet and it is still fully usable.
I1521 was one of the 10 AM frequencies identified by Ofcom in 2004 as having development potential,
1521 would have been good for a DRM test to follow up the Classic Gold 26Mhz test from Croyden, but guess we will not see domestic DRM now in Europe as DAB/DAB+ seems to be standard and DRM+ is testing?
Guess Global do not have to give up 1521 or 1548 until digital radio switchover, but no date has been set
Virgin 1215 AM got slated because of the AM signal, I'm sure people don't want to hear Rock Music the kind Caroline plays on AM no matter what the coverage if Caroline does get a AM space, I know people on here won't want to here this but if Caroline gets on AM just see how long it will take before the groans of oh it sounds awful on AM.
Virgin 1215 AM got slated because of the AM signal, I'm sure people don't want to hear Rock Music the kind Caroline plays on AM no matter what the coverage if Caroline does get a AM space, I know people on here won't want to here this but if Caroline gets on AM just see how long it will take before the groans of oh it sounds awful on AM.
I am sure that Radio Caroline fans (including myself) won't care about the quality of an AM signal as long as it is listenable. We put up with the AM signal from the ships from 1964 until 1990 so I am sure we will be happy about the fact that Caroline would have a permanent frequency regardless of the mode of transmission.
With the right audio processing, AM audio can sound quite good. Virign/Absolute gets slated because 1215 khz from Droitwich is one of the worst AM audio signals I have ever heard. The transmitter itself is ancient!
I believe [540kHz, VRT in Belgium] is as the site and transmitter are still there.
Well I was thinking more that that the frequency might be hired from Belgium rather than the transmitter facility (and I do realise I have my head in the clouds here ).
With an efficient aerial it wouldn't take many watts to cover much of south east England, compared with a frequency at the other end of the band.
I am totally behind us getting AM but would like it strong enough or on a frequency that we could hear abit further north i.e the midlands and more!
I know i can and do listen online and via sky but would also like to listen in the car.
I have been able to pick the signal up here since the 60,s and used to listen throughout the night.
Dickens said the station was actively looking to dump its analogue signal by the end of 2015.
"If we continue at the current trajectory ahead of the industry and monetise it in the way we are doing now, we would be more than happy to go it alone [on digital]," he added.
Well I was thinking more that that the frequency might be hired from Belgium rather than the transmitter facility (and I do realise I have my head in the clouds here ).
With an efficient aerial it wouldn't take many watts to cover much of south east England, compared with a frequency at the other end of the band.
Not impossible as Ireland got permission from the ITU to use 549 at 25kw, was used for an "hot country" RSL, Spirit radio now have the licence and said they will eventually use it (but no timescale)
The potential problem with 540 at higher power (than allowed on 531) in London is it is close to Spectrum 558 and could cause problems on older less selective AM sets.
Part of the problem is a lot of stations have stopped or said they will stop using higher power AM frequency allocations, but have not handed them back to the ITU who co ordinate frequency usage.
RAI were recently using 846 with 25kw of DRM which could have caused problems, but seem to have finished the tests as there are no more transmissions. http://www.mediasuk.org/archive/palomba_e.html
It's listed in the WRTH as Santa Palomba 50kw DRM inactive. Was listed by the Frequency Finder webmaster in his submission on AM for Future of Radio as a possible UK channel: http://frequencyfinder.org.uk/fx_am.html
I didn't think the Geneva 1978 plan was online, unless you were an ITU subscriber, but checking Wikipedia it's here, there've been some agreed modifications since: http://www.wabweb.net/radio/listen/LWMWeu78.pdf
It's been suggested that anything under 1kw is not an issue for the ITU. How true that actually is I have no idea
There used to be under the pre 1978 plan international common frequencies where you could use up to 1kw, of course nighttime interference on those channels could be quite high, particularly since in those days some stations were off channel causing heterodynes.
Seems as if these are still there, the entry for 1602 for example has 1kw allocations in just about every country. I would have thought there would be unlikely to be objections if you asked for a low power allocation on most medium wave channels but on many the nightime coverage area would be much worse than daytime.
I am totally behind us getting AM but would like it strong enough or on a frequency that we could hear abit further north i.e the midlands and more!
I know i can and do listen online and via sky but would also like to listen in the car.
I have been able to pick the signal up here since the 60,s and used to listen throughout the night.
Given time and a bit more cash I'm sure that they could boost the signal as long as Ofcom don't object
Comments
Why should the whole of DAB have special treatment (Government "switchover" plan) when it has failed in the marketplace?
Don't know ask Andrew Mitchell mp post 26
The answer is, it shouldn't have special treatment. Your London answer is hardly reason enough to destroy FM and have people forcibly get DAB for what they already listen to out of choice (and I'm not getting into that debate yet again).
If AM has space on it, let people use it, what a waste if they aren't allowed to. There are plenty of AM sets out there and despite what 5Live and others would like, despite fall-off of audience, many people still listen, there's also nothing to say if new services are forthcoming, the slide can't be halted/reversed.
AM is good for a lot of us, no-one is forcing anyone to listen and those who want to or those who want to provide services should be free to do so.
I don't think Caroline are asking to be given a frequency for nothing, what I believe they are asking for is that Ofcom really does try to find a spare slot and offer it to Caroline at a sensible rate instead of the station having to bid for it and so probably push the price beyond their reach.
They stick to the AM band simply because of their tradition and the fact that they are already equipped to broadcast on that medium. If they were to go for FM or DAB it would mean further outlay for capital equipment on top of the cost of the license.
At least, that is how I see it.
That's surprising because the Westminster Calvary Chapel shows usually feature a lot of music, Alwyn Wall is a good musician, the examples of music from his band I've heard are guitar based soft rock with some good solos, fits into Caroline's format, liike good gospel music you can enjoy it without being committed to the Christian faith. His guitarist used to be in 70's progressive rock band Gravy Train who had albums on Vertigo and Dawn. Slide along 1 minute if you want to miss the introduction and hear an example of their music, you didn't get this on The World Tomorrow!:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icbZJ4_RTdk
You seem to be missing the point, Caroline transmitted on medium wave when they were offshore and the groups you quote have no interest in it:
"Now, in 2010, as the radio industry is preparing for an almost wholesale move to DAB, medium wave is being abandoned. OFCOM, who regulate radio communications on behalf of government, announced four years ago that there would be no further licences issued for medium wave."
"The commercial operators concede that there is no financial value in broadcasting on am, nor with our format; we would not offer competition to the existing operators."
Radio Caroline has been broadcasting for 50 years, not just in the sixties.
The programming philosophy outlined on the campaign website has nothing to do with 60's nostalgia, nor with targeting the under 40's:
http://www.radiocarolineonair.com/programming-philosophy
At the O2 exhibition they ran they did have a lot of 60s memorabilia but tied that in with how the station developed into an album station in the 70's and is still following that format today. The same thing could be done if they are able to get a permanent anchorage with public access and either broadcast from the ship or use it as a studio base tied in with a similar exhibition. Gravesham Council see The Ross Revenge as a good tourist attraction.
Most stations outside the main commercial radio groups are niche stations anyway, hanssolo quotes Planet Rock and Jazz FM.
Caroline has volunteer presenters, including some who currently work in commercial radio, listener subscriptions, some income from Calvary Chapel, some music programmes which IIRC are paid for, some advertising, income from public visits to the ship and income from the webshop. Take all that into account and the AM service becomes viable.
Putting the arguments for using AM aside for the moment Mike,what would be the relative costs if DAB were to be considered as a viable alternative.
Sooner or later the government will get it's way and force all stations onto that platform in the same way as it has done with TV. It may take a few years to implement that policy but it surely will happen in time. If Caroline tries to wait it out until the end the cost of a DAB license may have gone through the roof by then
I also appreciate that few vehicles are as yet equipped to receive DAB, which is partly the point in having the transmission on AM, but long term even Caroline is likely to have to take this route.
DAB does not work well in many parts of the country.
http://www.mediauk.com/article/32730/what-radio-platform-is-best%3F?page=3
From page 1 looks like Caroline might be paying £40k for the Sky transmission.
Colourful decided to drop Sky to go on DAB, as radio via DAB is higher profile and use than radio via Sky TV in London!
Suspect Colourful would prefer a London wide analogue licence which they can't get.
Maybe one option which Ofcom/DCMS might agree to within the existing broadcast acts is to get a 50W AM community licence station on the ship for the local area and DAB for London wide coverage, some stations like Desi in London and Angel in the Solent are now doing this.
If however it must be higher power AM, notice Classic Gold were thinking of moving 1521 from Crawley to London before the merger with Capital Gold, this would be a good frequency to use as this useful chart shows 1521 is clear,
http://frequencyfinder.org.uk/AM_153_1611.pdf
but doubt if Global will give it up before 2015 (even as it has only about 5000 current listeners) and if it can be increased beyond 0.65Kw?
Some updates needed there. 558 RSI Monte Ceneri, 585 FIP, 675 Superloustic to name a few that have hung their modulating boots up.
261 Europe 1 (German) still planned?
Wonder if 540 is a hireable frequency allocation from VRT. Good signal from Belgium day and night in London before they quit a few years back.
Radio Caroline would be unable to raise this kind of money without attracting investors, who would wish to become part owners in the company and therefore have a place on the board of management. Any change of ownership, even if only partial, seems to have been resisted in recent years.
It's no secret Ofcom want the UK to be the first nation to be have an digital broadcasting service, so the likelyhood of them licensing a stations after any UK MW switch off seems unlikely. I would guess a transmitter in mainland Europe would offer the best prospects.
I doubt it, maybe that was thought about when DRM was being envisaged? Radio Ropa used 261 until 31.12.2000, closed as they couldn't get FM frequencies and longwave+satellite was financially unsustainable. Due to many receivers not having longwave they were selling the FX10 for 20 German marks, a single frequency receiver!
I believe it is as the site and transmitter are still there.
1521 was one of the 10 AM frequencies identified by Ofcom in 2004 as having development potential, it's the former BBC Radio Nottingham frequency.
Comparing the 1548 and 1521 coverage maps:
1548
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/radiolicensing/mcamaps/al066.pdf
1521
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/radiolicensing/mcamaps/al116.pdf
there's a fair amount of overlap.
It's been suggested that anything under 1kw is not an issue for the ITU. How true that actually is I have no idea
http://www.mediasuk.org/archive/palomba_e.html
I think they want a MW frquency for nostalgic purposes. Okay it may not sound as good as DAB however people who used to listen to Radio Caroline in the olden days will be familiar to the type of quality and the same type of quality will be nostalgic in itself, snaps, crackles, pops, hiss, the lot.
It would also be a good way to convince people that AM radio has not served its purpose yet and it is still fully usable.
Guess Global do not have to give up 1521 or 1548 until digital radio switchover, but no date has been set
I am sure that Radio Caroline fans (including myself) won't care about the quality of an AM signal as long as it is listenable. We put up with the AM signal from the ships from 1964 until 1990 so I am sure we will be happy about the fact that Caroline would have a permanent frequency regardless of the mode of transmission.
With the right audio processing, AM audio can sound quite good. Virign/Absolute gets slated because 1215 khz from Droitwich is one of the worst AM audio signals I have ever heard. The transmitter itself is ancient!
Well I was thinking more that that the frequency might be hired from Belgium rather than the transmitter facility (and I do realise I have my head in the clouds here
With an efficient aerial it wouldn't take many watts to cover much of south east England, compared with a frequency at the other end of the band.
I know i can and do listen online and via sky but would also like to listen in the car.
I have been able to pick the signal up here since the 60,s and used to listen throughout the night.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/oct/27/digital-radio-listening-figures Not impossible as Ireland got permission from the ITU to use 549 at 25kw, was used for an "hot country" RSL, Spirit radio now have the licence and said they will eventually use it (but no timescale)
The potential problem with 540 at higher power (than allowed on 531) in London is it is close to Spectrum 558 and could cause problems on older less selective AM sets.
Part of the problem is a lot of stations have stopped or said they will stop using higher power AM frequency allocations, but have not handed them back to the ITU who co ordinate frequency usage.
It's listed in the WRTH as Santa Palomba 50kw DRM inactive. Was listed by the Frequency Finder webmaster in his submission on AM for Future of Radio as a possible UK channel:
http://frequencyfinder.org.uk/fx_am.html
I didn't think the Geneva 1978 plan was online, unless you were an ITU subscriber, but checking Wikipedia it's here, there've been some agreed modifications since:
http://www.wabweb.net/radio/listen/LWMWeu78.pdf
There used to be under the pre 1978 plan international common frequencies where you could use up to 1kw, of course nighttime interference on those channels could be quite high, particularly since in those days some stations were off channel causing heterodynes.
Seems as if these are still there, the entry for 1602 for example has 1kw allocations in just about every country. I would have thought there would be unlikely to be objections if you asked for a low power allocation on most medium wave channels but on many the nightime coverage area would be much worse than daytime.
Given time and a bit more cash I'm sure that they could boost the signal as long as Ofcom don't object