Cameron's 'ATOS' for sick workers
Biffo the Bear
Posts: 25,859 Forum Member
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Looks like GPs can no longer be trusted to sign people off work. So what could the solution be? I know, let's get a private firm in to do health assessments which override GP directions - that's never gone wrong in the past has it?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/11421844/Sick-note-culture-to-be-stamped-out-under-radical-new-scheme.html
Coincidentally, the company who will be doing this, 'Health Management' is actually a subsidiary of Maximus, the company who will replace the much maligned ATOS.
I suppose we should have seen this coming really. Clearly when it comes to medical matters, neither benefits claimants, now workers, nor their GPs can be trusted.
It will be interesting to see if there's a similar backlash to the ATOS disaster where people with terminal diseases, chronic disabilities and debilitating conditions were forced back to work by trained 'assessors', who actually have no medical training at all and just work off Cameron's tick-box of acceptable illnesses.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/11421844/Sick-note-culture-to-be-stamped-out-under-radical-new-scheme.html
Coincidentally, the company who will be doing this, 'Health Management' is actually a subsidiary of Maximus, the company who will replace the much maligned ATOS.
I suppose we should have seen this coming really. Clearly when it comes to medical matters, neither benefits claimants, now workers, nor their GPs can be trusted.
It will be interesting to see if there's a similar backlash to the ATOS disaster where people with terminal diseases, chronic disabilities and debilitating conditions were forced back to work by trained 'assessors', who actually have no medical training at all and just work off Cameron's tick-box of acceptable illnesses.
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I will take the word over an educated doctor over a company like ATOS on these matters all day long.
I think this would be a much better system for companies to implement.
I think that's a fair system; after all, it can be down to the manager's discretion also (as it is with the people that I manage) i.e. you wouldn't mark someone down if they'd been off for months after breaking their leg or recovering from cancer, but you would if there was someone who seemed to have a migraine every Monday, obviously not caused by them posting pictures of their drunken weekend on Facebook
You do realise of course under your bias that Labour sent people to ATOS too I had a friend who I had to accompany to ATOS or the equivalent in 2005, also all civil servants are sent to these companies when they have lots of sick leave.
You seem to think this has just happened in last few years, DWP were sending people for review all through their terms in office.
It makes me really sad that it seems like GP's are no longer being trusted, what does a GP get out of lying on a sick note for someone? A person I know was referred to a specialist mental health NHS sector a few years ago, and one member of staff that she was working with in order to get better said basically that it takes more than a phonecall and a few assessments to determine exactly what's wrong with a person and their capabilities, and that GP's, nurses, mental health teams etc know their "clients" better than any company would, and so they should be involved in determining when a person is fit for work - and that the majority of the staff felt the same.
Just another idea to shaft the sick and disabled. Bloody sick of it.
if you read the Mail and the Sun over the next few days you'll realise that this is a way to clamp down on the workshy and the leadswingers
;-)
I wonder if the general public are alarmed yet. Massive cuts to public services to come, people in work now to be treated as no better than serfs, access to justice severely curtailed. And on and on and on...
Vote Conservative for a brighter future of unrelenting misery and control!
Vote Labour for no change
Stress is real and in most cases leads to other illnesses such as depression which are the reason people take time off work.
The system employed by the company I work for does work. It works as a deterrent preventing the abuse of sick time/pay. It is far more effective than forcing doctors to refer patients to a third party company at administrative cost would ever be.
Yes you are right but there were alot of differances, atos had a very good reputation within the private sector doing these assessments. But when doing assessments in the private sector they used their own assessment design , when doing DWP work the assessment was designed by the DWP, also the assessments that labour brought in are nothing like the ones in place now. I know because i have been though all the asseesssments in place since 1995. And in 1995 medicals were done by doctors who were employed by DWP
The Tories (or any political party) don't need to take on this idea. Businesses can choose to implement a system like it any time they wish.
We really don't need this plan at all.
They didn't reverse anything for 13 years so they won't do next time they will have the same pressures as any government but there are some people who think if we get a Labour government on May 8th the sun will shine bright, there will be no more poverty, everyone will be equal and get paid a decent wage.
Unfortunately these people are not living on this planet.
Good that leaves more time for other patients to see their GP.
Anyone ill for more than four weeks will face a fit-for-work test in a radical new scheme aimed at stamping out the “sick-note culture” which costs the economy billions of pounds each year.
All GPs will be expected to refer patients to a company that will assess their ability to work and draw up a plan for their return.
More than a million people take sick leave for over a month each year, costing the economy over £9 billion.
The new scheme, which will cost £134 million over four years, is aimed at stopping people from languishing on benefits while off work for long-term sickness, The Times reported.
Prime Minister David Cameron said three years ago that he wanted to end the sick-note culture, which acted as a “conveyor belt to a life on benefits”.
Trouble is if someone is an amazing worker.. a huge asset to the company.. but is struck down by a genuine illness that results in multiple weeks off sick.. they'll be punished too. And you'd get genuine sick people going into work and spreading their germs because they don't want to lose their bonus. So it has side effects.
My issue is there will always be people who take take take. Who end the year having taken the maximum number of sick days they can. It winds me up. And I can count on more than one hand the number of co-workers i've seen "go on the sick" and get signed off and they had nothing wrong with them. Funnily enough after two months of sick notes.. they find another job. What a coincidence.
I like the idea of "mental health days" where employees can take a number of days off per year that aren't tied into their holiday quota and can be taken at short notice. That might help.
Some companies are even turning to using third party go-between companies so if you're sick you ring the company and they perform some sort of survey. Basically making it a bit more difficult to fake an illness. Rather than "I can't come in to day I've been up all night throwing up" they have to detail the symptoms, who else is suffering from the illness, that sort of thing. So it's supposed to put them off faking it. Not sure if it works or not.
I'm not sure there is a solution sadly because this country seems full of take-take-take individuals and the pride in a good day of work seems absent.
How does it leave time to see other patients?
They have to see a doctor first to be referred and anyone who needs a sicknote extenstion doesn't see a doctor they ring up and it is done as a task not as an appointment.
I forgot to mention that while length of illness is considered, the system is weighted so that the number of absences has a larger effect on the score. This reduces the impact on those out long term with illnesses like cancer and penalises the type of people who miss Mondays due to hangovers much more.
Whenever you need fairness and justice in society you mustn't use a private firm.
Not knocking private firms, they have strengths and weaknesses. And their biggest weakness is putting themselves above everything else, as they are obligated to do.
Many people claiming sickness benefit have got enormous evidence to support their claim but this is questioned, ignored and disputed by people who are not trained in anything except to ask questions and tick boxes.
Seems like we are questioning the medical staff who produce reports in favour of ? Atos? Hmmm
Spot-on. Amazing the Tories think these people (who will probably be told to be ruthless) know more than the professionals.
Consent to medical examination/treatment is an integral part of medical ethics and international human rights law. It has to be voluntary, informed and the person giving consent must have the capacity to give such consent. Therefore, as Dr Sarah Wollaston MP (Tory Chair of the Health Select Committee) said re the Tories' previous policy announcement re forcing addicts and morbidly obese claimants to get treatment, forcing people to get treatments is illegal. Cameron was made to (again) look a total fool by Dr Wollaston.
Therefore they cannot officially force people to use this company but as we know some Tories love bullying those that they see as weaker, so you can be sure that pressure will often be put on these people. If people genuinely volunteer for help then that is fine but they should be no coercion imo. As with most people on ESA, I have no doubt that the vast majority want to get back to work but bullying people back to work should never be acceptable.