Indeed - though that's only natural to a point, I guess. Like when the last Government took a hatchet to science funding, by way of the STFC - those screaming about it most were, unsurprisingly, scientists.
Indeed - though that's only natural to a point, I guess. Like when the last Government took a hatchet to science funding, by way of the STFC - those screaming about it most were, unsurprisingly, scientists.
I don't blame them for trying to cover their own asses, it just amuses me when posters claim that these strikers are only trying to protect these services, when in reality they are just trying to save their own skin.
But nah, just a coincidence, they pick dates at random right?
Seriously... your made up conspiricy theory is very amusing But that's all it amounts too. You hate these particular strikers so you've concocted an unlikely theory based on booking holidays... we get it.
Seriously... your made up conspiricy theory is very amusing But that's all it amounts too. You hate these particular strikers so you've concocted an unlikely theory based on booking holidays... we get it.
perhaps when i see them picketing instead of having a day off, I'll have a bit more sympathy.
Well the implication is the cuts aren't necessary, we can just plod along with a national deficit and everything will be OK.
And having a strike on one of the biggest shopping days of the year isn't going to help.
You appear to be conflating the terms "national debt", and the "the deficit", whereas the two are different. Please say which one you are talking about.
There is a solution to the economic problem, and that is the Government issuing interest-free money to spend. Currently, they pay interest to borrow whatever money they want. The Government can create as much money as it likes, it just gets created in the form of Government debt, which the nation as a whole then gets burdened with. I believe a better system would be for the Government to simply issue it's money in the form of actual money, and not Government debt.
I hope the Gov't have made cuts more deep to account for the the damage these strikes will do to the econemy. I'm sure the Unions might turn around in a few years and say "the deficit hasn't been wiped out, we still owe billions", obviously they won't admit their walkouts would most likely be the reason
You appear to be conflating the terms "national debt", and the "the deficit", whereas the two are different. Please say which one you are talking about.
Deficit, i.e. spending more than we get in, requiring either increased income or cuts.
Deficit, i.e. spending more than we get in, requiring either increased income or cuts.
Ok, thanks for clarifying. You said "national deficit", but it's only really referred to as "the deficit", so I wondered if you had confused the two terms and assumed they meant the same.
Yesterday you were saying councils were being pressured into making cuts too quickly and therefore their options were being severely restricted - and indeed you bemoaned the fact that you yourself might have to make someone redundant because of the need to make cuts swiftly.
Now you're saying they "still have a lot of decision making around which cuts are made".
Isn't there just a bit of a tension between those two positions?
And the effect of the strikes will be... a negative impact on jobs and services. Way to go, the unions!
No there's no tension between those two statements - the cuts are happening so fast that councils cannot achieve them through proper planning and natural wastage. However it's still up to them WHAT services they actually cut.
Why do you think asserting their right to protest against cuts will somehow magically undermine the recovery?
It's the cuts themselves which will undermine the recovery not public sector staff protesting about the cuts.
The government's rhetoric about the cuts has already done a lot of advance damage in terms of scaring people away from spending any money. The gloom and doom they were spouting about the state of that nation's finances did a lot of damage, and is still doing so.
You are obviously a heavy loser in the betting field.....
Not really. If they were working there for the good of mankind then they'd be doing it for free, but they're not. They didn't apply for these jobs for the sake of providing a service they did so so they could take a salary home to pay their bills.
Like I said kudos to them for trying to protect their own hides, because this is really what the strikes are about, but don't kid yourself if you think they are protecting "it" because its an essential service because ideology doesn't pay the bills.
You mean the Guardian/Mirror's rhetoric about the cuts has scared people.
No I don't mean that at all - I mean the rhetoric about the country being so bankrupt we have to cut everything and do it right now. Which was never true.
Taking such glee over cutting has everyone involved in public service running scared - I don't know anyone who is prepared to book a holiday, buy a car, do essential work on their house or make any financial commitment at all.
There is a solution to the economic problem, and that is the Government issuing interest-free money to spend.
the Government cannot afford its own spending plans now without borrowing money - why on earth would they borrow even more to give you an interest free loan?
Taking such glee over cutting has everyone involved in public service running scared - I don't know anyone who is prepared to book a holiday, buy a car, do essential work on their house or make any financial commitment at all.
Bit like the private sector then. Why should the public sector be insulated?
the Government cannot afford its own spending plans now without borrowing money - why on earth would they borrow even more to give you an interest free loan?
don't get them started. off out now. Happy New Year to all at DS
Bit like the private sector then. Why should the public sector be insulated?
Nobody is expecting the public sector to be insulated - but there have never been so many people's jobs under threat in such a short space of time. When the private sector contracts the job losses tend to be spread across small, medium and large companies and quite often the individual that lose their jobs have a reasonable prospect of alternative work - the only times when it's been otherwise have been when whole industries have collapsed like mining and steelmaking where the consquences for communities were dire - and this is what could very well happen in those communities who are dependent on public sector jobs because the whole sector will be offloading its workforce and there will not be sufficient suitable jobs for those displaced to go to - it will be a social and economic disaster.
When there have been job losses in the public sector arising from reorganisation it's been relatively easy for workers to move from local government to the NHS or police or other public sector employer - that option won't exist this time.
the Government cannot afford its own spending plans now without borrowing money - why on earth would they borrow even more to give you an interest free loan?
I think you're getting confused here Majlis, no one has suggested the Government borrow money to give me an interest-free loan.
The money the Government borrow is simply money that has been created out of thin air. I don't think that is a fair system. I think a better system would be for the Government to issue it's own money - Issue, not borrow. If they need money, they should create it themselves, with no interest attached. The money can eventually be recalled, preventing inflation.
You highlighted the problem in your post, you said "why......would they borrow", mistakenly implying the only way our Government can get more money is by borrowing.
I anticipate your response to be something along the lines of:
"But politicians will abuse that system and create too much money" - To which I will answer that they already do create as much money as they like. It just gets created in the form of Government debt, which we as a nation are then burdened with.
I recall literally just before the last GE Gordon Brown had a meeting with several Union leaders. I wonder why?
I hope they do strike because then when the strikers face a backlash from the people they will be worse off and they will have virtually little sympathy from the public and it will be another nail in the coffin of the Unions.
I agree, as one of those who has been unemployed for nearly a year now I am disgusted that Unions seems to think that their members should be automatically entitled to inflation busting pay increases, continuation of gold plated pensions, opposition of increased retiremement age for public sector workers and cast iron guarantees of no job cuts.
I agree, as one of those who has been unemployed for nearly a year now I am disgusted that Unions seems to think that their members should be automatically entitled to inflation busting pay increases, continuation of gold plated pensions, opposition of increased retiremement age for public sector workers and cast iron guarantees of no job cuts.
A post displaying the sure signs of divide and rule.
The Establishment will be rubbing their hands with glee......
Comments
Protect "it" or protect their own backsides?
My money is on the latter.
Indeed - though that's only natural to a point, I guess. Like when the last Government took a hatchet to science funding, by way of the STFC - those screaming about it most were, unsurprisingly, scientists.
I don't blame them for trying to cover their own asses, it just amuses me when posters claim that these strikers are only trying to protect these services, when in reality they are just trying to save their own skin.
Seriously... your made up conspiricy theory is very amusing
You are obviously a heavy loser in the betting field.....
perhaps when i see them picketing instead of having a day off, I'll have a bit more sympathy.
Why do you think asserting their right to protest against cuts will somehow magically undermine the recovery?
Well the implication is the cuts aren't necessary, we can just plod along with a national deficit and everything will be OK.
And having a strike on one of the biggest shopping days of the year isn't going to help.
You appear to be conflating the terms "national debt", and the "the deficit", whereas the two are different. Please say which one you are talking about.
There is a solution to the economic problem, and that is the Government issuing interest-free money to spend. Currently, they pay interest to borrow whatever money they want. The Government can create as much money as it likes, it just gets created in the form of Government debt, which the nation as a whole then gets burdened with. I believe a better system would be for the Government to simply issue it's money in the form of actual money, and not Government debt.
Deficit, i.e. spending more than we get in, requiring either increased income or cuts.
Ok, thanks for clarifying. You said "national deficit", but it's only really referred to as "the deficit", so I wondered if you had confused the two terms and assumed they meant the same.
No there's no tension between those two statements - the cuts are happening so fast that councils cannot achieve them through proper planning and natural wastage. However it's still up to them WHAT services they actually cut.
It's the cuts themselves which will undermine the recovery not public sector staff protesting about the cuts.
The government's rhetoric about the cuts has already done a lot of advance damage in terms of scaring people away from spending any money. The gloom and doom they were spouting about the state of that nation's finances did a lot of damage, and is still doing so.
Not really. If they were working there for the good of mankind then they'd be doing it for free, but they're not. They didn't apply for these jobs for the sake of providing a service they did so so they could take a salary home to pay their bills.
Like I said kudos to them for trying to protect their own hides, because this is really what the strikes are about, but don't kid yourself if you think they are protecting "it" because its an essential service because ideology doesn't pay the bills.
You mean the Guardian/Mirror's rhetoric about the cuts has scared people.
No I don't mean that at all - I mean the rhetoric about the country being so bankrupt we have to cut everything and do it right now. Which was never true.
Taking such glee over cutting has everyone involved in public service running scared - I don't know anyone who is prepared to book a holiday, buy a car, do essential work on their house or make any financial commitment at all.
the Government cannot afford its own spending plans now without borrowing money - why on earth would they borrow even more to give you an interest free loan?
Bit like the private sector then. Why should the public sector be insulated?
don't get them started.
Nobody is expecting the public sector to be insulated - but there have never been so many people's jobs under threat in such a short space of time. When the private sector contracts the job losses tend to be spread across small, medium and large companies and quite often the individual that lose their jobs have a reasonable prospect of alternative work - the only times when it's been otherwise have been when whole industries have collapsed like mining and steelmaking where the consquences for communities were dire - and this is what could very well happen in those communities who are dependent on public sector jobs because the whole sector will be offloading its workforce and there will not be sufficient suitable jobs for those displaced to go to - it will be a social and economic disaster.
When there have been job losses in the public sector arising from reorganisation it's been relatively easy for workers to move from local government to the NHS or police or other public sector employer - that option won't exist this time.
I think you're getting confused here Majlis, no one has suggested the Government borrow money to give me an interest-free loan.
The money the Government borrow is simply money that has been created out of thin air. I don't think that is a fair system. I think a better system would be for the Government to issue it's own money - Issue, not borrow. If they need money, they should create it themselves, with no interest attached. The money can eventually be recalled, preventing inflation.
You highlighted the problem in your post, you said "why......would they borrow", mistakenly implying the only way our Government can get more money is by borrowing.
I anticipate your response to be something along the lines of:
"But politicians will abuse that system and create too much money" - To which I will answer that they already do create as much money as they like. It just gets created in the form of Government debt, which we as a nation are then burdened with.
I agree, as one of those who has been unemployed for nearly a year now I am disgusted that Unions seems to think that their members should be automatically entitled to inflation busting pay increases, continuation of gold plated pensions, opposition of increased retiremement age for public sector workers and cast iron guarantees of no job cuts.
A post displaying the sure signs of divide and rule.
The Establishment will be rubbing their hands with glee......