It's embarrasingly slow in the way you've already admitted - unless the box has already been on for half an hour, the chances are the EPG page that you scroll to will be empty. You then have no choice but to wait.
I press guide and it doesnt think about it like my Fusion and then go into the guide. It happens straight away.
Loading an empty page is unlikely to take very long. It'll be interesting to compare the relative performance of the Humax epg when it's permanently "fully laden" (as per the Fusion).
How can you say its restrictive with the amount of information on view: I can see 4 or 5 of the next few programmes on each channel, whereas on the Fusion you can only see one channel at a time or one programme at a time. Is this a wind up Boinng?
No, it's a subjective opinion, as I said earlier. I prefer to see what's on nine or ten channels at once (as per the Fusion) than what's now and next on just four or five channels (as per the Humax). I also like the option of seeing the next several hours worth of programming on a single channel. These are just personal preferences, not reasons why one box is better than another.
How can it take 10 minutes to set a PVR to record a film from the EPG. If that is no exageration then I suggest there is either something wrong with the machine or there is something wrong with the way he is doing it
See above. If it takes 10 minutes for the programme information to appear in the guide after he's turned the box on, then he has no choice but to either set it manually or wait 10 minutes. There's nothing wrong with the way he's doing it, it's just the everyday practical impact of the Humax's current shortcomings - a genuine example that I witnessed myself.
or its really because he does actually know how and it took 10 mkinutes to figure it out without the manual the very first time. If he used the navigation options at the bottom of the EPG screen, how would it take even as long as 15 or 20 seconds. If he simply just scrolled accross the EPG all the way into the next day to the film say 30 seconds tops? Indeed the longest method I can think of is to use the cool feature where you can search and record: press the find button key in all or first few letters of the name of the programme and press find: on the entry for the chosen programme from the list press OK. It will then record it. Whats that: 30 seconds? please.
The navigation niceties are irrelevant if it takes ten minutes (or sometimes longer) for the actual information to appear. Surely you're well aware of this?
Please expand on the customer led changes Fusion have dealt with their customers on. As far as I know there have been no such goings on. If they have, what exaclty are they working on and when do they want to plan to do it??? I am an owner and will also benefit from any enhancements they make.
I've no idea what future changes may be made (or what burning demand there is for them). In the past they've rearranged buttons and altered the buffering behaviour as a result of user feedback, and (coincidentally or not) fixed bugs that I've personally pointed out to them.
Your post are bordering on being upset with another peice of AV equipment that you dont even own, why is that? I really dont know why you feel compelled to knock other PVRs in this case. Perhaps you dont and its just your tone thats run away with your in this case. I said before that you have your opinions and you are entitled to them. Dont feel you need to justify your position by knocking other PVRs. If you have a reasoned agrument incorporating the good points and bad points that lead to a logical conclusion of the Humax EPG being rubbish then thats another thing altogether. Other people are saying the Humax EPG is nice. I cant expect everyone to agree as its down to your preference.
The points of my argument are fairly obvious, stated above, and echoed by others in this very same forum (namely that the epg, however "nice", doesn't actually work very well). I'm sorry if you don't like my "tone", but not sure what that's got to do with anything. Is it actually the fact that I'm right which offends you?
This thread started comparing PVRs as a whole package. Then someone drifted onto just talking about the EPG and
which is what we have all been talking about for the past few days. Now you are trying to use an irrelevant (and a ceded given) advantage to make your argument. It is usually a sign of someone grasping for straws when they keep moving the goalposts,
I think you're reading a little too much into this.
This thread was originally a comparison between Sky+, other Freeview PVRs generally, and the Humax (as the "undoubted" closest competitor to Sky+). I pointed out that there was doubt, particularly where the epg was concerned, and that's how we got here. No goalposts have been harmed in the process.
Boinng, you have got yourself out of this mystery by adding that it only took longer because he he was doing this when the machine wasnt switched on. It still doesnt add up so perhaps there is a problem like I suggested earlier. Thanks for toning it down by the way.
He wanted record a programme on the next day: The EPG populates when the machine is first switched on and say it takes 5 minutes for me to get the full 7 days worth of EPG for all channels to automatically fill out the guide. (Note the machine is actaully in standby and not pretend standby like the always on Fusions that only halt the display outputs on the back). If its a programme on the next day it will be in the guide after about a minute not 5 minutes. Given the timings I gave earlier, how on earth could it possibly take 10 minutes to record a programme on the next day? If his machine does have a bit of a fault, in the mean time he can use manual timers. You dont need the EPG for this so you can tell the machine to record x channel between such and such a time. Again, what 30 seconds? He can use this method until its replaced as well.
Re your last post, why will the EPG not be populated after half an hour? He really should get his machine looked into.
Re responsiveness compared to the Fusion: its noticeable. Sometimes on the Fusion you want to go into the EPG or Library or Calandar and it thinks about it for a second - I think its searching the hard disk to perform this as disk activity is heard on these commands. Is the operating system operating from the hard disk? Its not a problem and I suspect if it was it woud be talked about a lot more on the Fusion forums.
Re the EPG showing now and next on its grid view: no it doesnt. at present its grid is showing between 3pm and 5pm (15:00, 15:30, 16:00 and 16:30) with all the programmes listed going from left to right beside each channel. Therefore this supposed restrive view shows on view:
BBC1: Monk, Jackers, Pinky and the Brain, What's New Scooby doo, Grange Hill
BBC2: Through the Keyhole, Sun, Sea and Bargain Spotting, Ready Steady Cook, Weakest Link
ITV: Agatha Christie's Poirot, Pocoyo, Uncle Max, Rugrats, Prove It, My Parents are Aliens, You've Been Framed!, Dancing on Ice
Etc Etc
I cant share your view that this amount is restrictive and cant see how its subjective - but that is your opinion and you have every right to it. My Fusion only shows one show at a time or one channel at a time I am not going to pass judgment as to whether this is restrictive in todays post but peoplecan decide that for themselves anyway. My preference on an EPG (and this is my personal opinion) is that a grid format for an EPG is a good choice and it would probably need to show more than just the one programme at a time in the grid. When I used to use the Fusion freaquently, I used to flick between the default one show view or the one channel view during a sitting to get the most out of it and this seem to work the system well enough for me.
Re future enhancements exchanged between customers and Fusion: so there isnt anything in the offing is there. You sounded like there was for a minute. my bad.
Yes I did mention your tone. Its just a PVR. If its so bad wouldnt I be saying so? Thanks for toning it down. and no its not because you think you are right as you mentioned. I think I have pointed out enough corrections to make that obvious its not the case. Why dont you take a chill pill? If you dont like the fact that the EPG takes minutes to populate fully when first switch on fine. We want it instantly like it is saved to the hard disk as well. How you can go on and on about how bad it is stemming from this one thing is bemusing me. Dont fall out about it or go on the offensive its just a PVR at the end of the day.
Boinng, you have got yourself out of this mystery by adding that it only took longer because he he was doing this when the machine wasnt switched on. It still doesnt add up so perhaps there is a problem like I suggested earlier. Thanks for toning it down by the way.
But I didn't add anything to get out of any "mystery", I said that in my original post - you just misread it and went off one. And I'm the one who needs to tone it down?
He wanted record a programme on the next day: The EPG populates when the machine is first switched on and say it takes 5 minutes for me to get the full 7 days worth of EPG for all channels to automatically fill out the guide.
The box was on for ten minutes before the entry appeared. It happened a few weeks ago, I can't remember which film it was now, so maybe it wasn't for the next day, maybe the film was a couple of days later, maybe he was tuned to a misbehaving mux, and maybe the wind was blowing from the east - the point is none of that should matter, the information should have been there and it wasn't - until ten minutes later.
(Note the machine is actaully in standby and not pretend standby like the always on Fusions that only halt the display outputs on the back).
You do realise that the only poster perpetually bringing up the Fusion in this thread is you? Quite what comparitive definitions of the word standby have to do with anything, I'm not sure. I've already said that the only machine which comes close to Sky+ in terms of its epg (the thrust of my original argument) is the Topfield with the automatic search TAP - not the Humax or the Fusion.
If its a programme on the next day it will be in the guide after about a minute not 5 minutes. Given the timings I gave earlier, how on earth could it possibly take 10 minutes to record a programme on the next day? If his machine does have a bit of a fault, in the mean time he can use manual timers. You dont need the EPG for this so you can tell the machine to record x channel between such and such a time. Again, what 30 seconds? He can use this method until its replaced as well.
He shouldn't have to use manual timers, and indeed can't if he doesn't know exactly when the programme's on. Again, in comparison to Sky+, how is manual timers any kind of an answer?
Re your last post, why will the EPG not be populated after half an hour? He really should get his machine looked into.
It will be, just not necessarily in full before then. I think we both know this isn't just a problem with his box.
Re responsiveness compared to the Fusion: its noticeable. Sometimes on the Fusion you want to go into the EPG or Library or Calandar and it thinks about it for a second - I think its searching the hard disk to perform this as disk activity is heard on these commands. Is the operating system operating from the hard disk? Its not a problem and I suspect if it was it woud be talked about a lot more on the Fusion forums.
I know what you're saying, but as you say it's not an issue. All the epg information is on the disk, and I'm quite happy to wait a second (literally a second) for it to be loaded on screen. The crucial difference is that all the information is then present - it isn't just loading a screen and then waiting for the information to display later.
A fairer comparison would be to wait until the Humax is updated so it caches all it's epg information (as you and others have asked for), and then see whether it loads just as quick.
Re the EPG showing now and next on its grid view: no it doesnt. at present its grid is showing between 3pm and 5pm (15:00, 15:30, 16:00 and 16:30) with all the programmes listed going from left to right beside each channel. Therefore this supposed restrive view shows on view:
BBC1: Monk, Jackers, Pinky and the Brain, What's New Scooby doo, Grange Hill
BBC2: Through the Keyhole, Sun, Sea and Bargain Spotting, Ready Steady Cook, Weakest Link
ITV: Agatha Christie's Poirot, Pocoyo, Uncle Max, Rugrats, Prove It, My Parents are Aliens, You've Been Framed!, Dancing on Ice
Etc Etc
I cant share your view that this amount is restrictive and cant see how its subjective - but that is your opinion and you have every right to it. My Fusion only shows one show at a time or one channel at a time I am not going to pass judgment as to whether this is restrictive in todays post but peoplecan decide that for themselves anyway. My preference on an EPG (and this is my personal opinion) is that a grid format for an EPG is a good choice and it would probably need to show more than just the one programme at a time in the grid. When I used to use the Fusion freaquently, I used to flick between the default one show view or the one channel view during a sitting to get the most out of it and this seem to work the system well enough for me.
It's subjective because it is entirely down to personal taste. If you looked at an objective measurement of how much information either epg displays on one page, you'd probably find they're about the same - the Humax shows more programmes, and the Fusion shows more channels, but in terms of the amount of text on screen I doubt there's a lot between them. I prefer to have a quick look at what's on now on as many channels as possible - and for this purpose I find the Humax design restrictive as it restricts my view to just a handful of channels. If I want to know what's on next on any particular channel, or in a few hours time, I can press a button on the Fusion to do that.
Yes I did mention your tone. Its just a PVR. If its so bad wouldnt I be saying so? Thanks for toning it down. and no its not because you think you are right as you mentioned. I think I have pointed out enough corrections to make that obvious its not the case. Why dont you take a chill pill? If you dont like the fact that the EPG takes minutes to populate fully when first switch on fine. We want it instantly like it is saved to the hard disk as well. How you can go on and on about how bad it is stemming from this one thing is bemusing me. Dont fall out about it or go on the offensive its just a PVR at the end of the day.
Marc, from where I'm sitting it seems to be you that's taking this all personally and getting a little heated. I posted on this thread because I took issue with the assertion that of all the PVRs on the market, the Humax was "undoubtedly" closer to Sky+ than any other - and I mentioned the epg as one example of why this wasn't the case, at least currently. I don't see how you've "corrected" this notion, especially when you're basically saying the same thing - the epg is slow to load and needs work.
True enough rhubarbe. Its quite fun though! Boinng, I was finding your posts a little funny earlier dispite the repetition. I am finding yet another post a little tiresome though. When you post on this thread you make mistakes so now I’m going to have to look at your post and correct it again.
The exaggeration is telling. Normally people do this because the facts don’t back up the message you are intending to portray. Based on your comments and the way you are saying them I agree on Gomezz view too. Can you find me the threads, that would undoubtedly appear, which made you come to the almighty conclusion that the Humax EPGs do not populate within half an hour? Perhaps a few posts just so I can see why it led you to believe this is what it is like on our Humax machines.
Your proof about the 10 minute scheduling time has become "maybe it was that the mux wasn’t transmitting the EPG" or he couldn’t find it or it was on day 7 or something. Right you are then.
You ask why did I mention the Fusion? Its because you said "Loading an empty page is unlikely to take very long. It'll be interesting to compare the relative performance of the Humax epg when it's permanently "fully laden" (as per the Fusion)."
Seeing as you mention the Fusion and you own one, I thought it was something I can talk to you about that you will understand easily. By the way, when the EPG is full there is no lag in calling it up/using it at all.
There are situations where the Humax isn’t in proper standby and it will have the EPG when switched on, but this is of little consequence and does not add anything to the conversation I agree. I suppose it is similar in this respect to the Fusion because that PVR is on constantly even in standby - you just cant see the picture. Switching on the Fusion you will find everything there and ready to go and in the Humax its only in situations when the machine is recording in standby can it be switched on fast and see everything in the EPG instantly. You mention the Topfield is the closest thing to SKy+ EPG because it has a search with a third party tap installed. Nothing wrong with your opinion that’s up to you. I don’t think I said anything about that opinion for or against yet.
Re manual timers. Read my post. If his machines takes 30 minutes to get anywhere near a 7 day epg it sounds like there is something wrong. My workaround while his machine has this fault is to use manual timers so that it takes seconds rather than wait 10 or 30 minutes. Again, since this has now become a one off, don’t worry about it.
Now lets see, what’s next. OK so you said that you find the EPG view quite restrictive on the amount of information on view. I have detailed what’s on view for you. You think the view is restrictive, still. That’s fine. Again you point to it being subjective. OK.
You said "I prefer to have a quick look at what's on now on as many channels as possible - and for this purpose I find the Humax design restrictive as it restricts my view to just a handful of channels."
If you must look through a long list of channels to see what’s on now: Press the list button on the Humax remote once: Up comes a list of, what, 10 or 15 channels down a list where you can see what’s on now for each of them. This is overlaid on top of the programme you are viewing or you can switch off the transparency overlay.
I have been trying to tell you to calm it down a bit as it’s only a PVR and you seem to have. There’s nothing wrong with saying why you think a certain PVR resembles a Sky+ EPG. You think the Topfield is the closest thing to the Sky+ EPG because of one thing. Then another says something about their opinion and then you start going on about how the machine doesn’t populate the EPG until it’s first switched on blah blah blah. I think you made your points so there is no need for bashing other peoples PVRs. Not everyone is going to agree that’s all. Where you have been making mistakes I have tried to correct them. Funnily enough, those same reasons against the Humax you gave apply to your own choice somewhat. There are some quite specific issues besides the EPG population time on the Topfield. A tap will get around this satisfactorily but we understand the manufacturer is working on a fix to it (the Topfield EPG only populates the channel that it’s on). The Sky+ EPG isn’t like this at all.
You can also search for programmes for recording in the Humax EPG, whereas you cannot in the Topfield but you do mention this is possible with a 3rd party tap at least which is quite correct. I’m not still not up to speed on the Topfield or downloaded any taps yet or anything but I think the tap in question takes it one step further though in that it can automatically record the programme once it’s found it, whereas on the Humax you have to press the OK button. Conversely, there is no configuring and manually hooking up the machine to a PC involved in the process with the Humax. I guess there is a bit of cancelling out here, however I would love to be able to tell the Humax to record anything in the EPG with the word say Lost whenever it comes up.
I am finding yet another post a little tiresome though.
Goodness.
When you post on this thread you make mistakes so now I’m going to have to look at your post and correct it again.
Marc, I haven't made any mistakes. Throughout this thread I've spoken from direct experience - I'm not paraphrasing, exagerrating or anything else. If you don't want to accept that could possibly be the case then so be it, you're quite free to impart your own experience, but don't confuse that with "correction".
The exaggeration is telling.
The only exagerration is your apparent amazement at all this. It's been a common enough complaint up till now.
You ask why did I mention the Fusion? Its because you said
Marc, you brought up 4TV/Fusion in your first reply to me, and in every post thereafter. It's not because of anything I said. Frankly I don't think the comparison is particularly interesting, and it certainly wasn't anything I was alluding to when I entered the thread.
You mention the Topfield is the closest thing to SKy+ EPG because it has a search with a third party tap installed. Nothing wrong with your opinion that’s up to you. I don’t think I said anything about that opinion for or against yet.
..which Ieads us eventually to..
You can also search for programmes for recording in the Humax EPG, whereas you cannot in the Topfield but you do mention this is possible with a 3rd party tap at least which is quite correct. I’m not still not up to speed on the Topfield or downloaded any taps yet or anything but I think the tap in question takes it one step further though in that it can automatically record the programme once it’s found it, whereas on the Humax you have to press the OK button. Conversely, there is no configuring and manually hooking up the machine to a PC involved in the process with the Humax. I guess there is a bit of cancelling out here, however I would love to be able to tell the Humax to record anything in the EPG with the word say Lost whenever it comes up.
..which is exactly what the Topfield can do with the relevant TAP (and another to cache the info). You can be forgiven for not being entirely knowledgable on the Topfield - it must be hard work correcting everyone here - but if you'd comprehended my earlier posts, you'd already know I'd mentioned the auto-search TAP as one of the things which bring the Topfield much closer to Sky+ than the Humax can claim to be. And correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that the only point I was making in the first place?
You said "if you'd comprehended my earlier posts, you'd already know I'd mentioned the auto-search TAP as one of the things which bring the Topfield much closer to Sky+"
I've done all the corrections. Now I bring the thing back on topic on issues you are comfortable with, and now you want to argue about it. Like I said before, I have not yet said anything 'against' your initial point. Chill.
Then you go "And correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that the only point I was making in the first place?"
Erm that would have been ideal but out popped:
"EPG view restrictive"
"The humax is next to useless a lot of the time"
"unless the box has already been on for half an hour, the chances are the EPG page that you scroll to will be empty."
"If it takes 10 minutes for the programme information to appear in the guide after he's turned the box on, then he has no choice but to either set it manually or wait 10 minutes. There's nothing wrong with the way he's doing it, it's just the everyday practical impact of the Humax's current shortcomings." I dont think anyone doubts you - I offered my assessment of what it could be already. Its now aparrantly a one off blip. Make your mind up and I'll try to keep up.
"The navigation niceties are irrelevant if it takes ten minutes (or sometimes longer) for the actual information to appear."
"30 minute wait on Humaxes with still no complete EPG - It's been a common enough complaint up till now"
"unless the box has already been on for half an hour, the chances are the EPG page that you scroll to will be empty."
I said: "Can you find me the threads, that would undoubtedly appear, which made you come to the almighty conclusion that the Humax EPGs do not populate within half an hour? Perhaps a few posts just so I can see why it led you to believe this is what it is like on our Humax machines." Do you need more time?
You can't correct my own experience Marc, I have already tried to explain that.
Now I bring the thing back on topic on issues you are comfortable with, and now you want to argue about it.
Let me correct you here - you took us off topic by banging on about the fusion and trying to prove the humax epg is brill, white is black, and so on. I've now dragged us back on topic by reminding you of my original point.
Like I said before, I have not yet said anything 'against' your initial point.
..but still the "corrections" continue..
Erm that would have been ideal but out popped:
"[snip lots of poor paraphrasing from comments made almost entirely in response to your own points]
"The humax is next to useless a lot of the time"
Marc, if you're going to parrot me endlessly at least get it right - I said the Humax epg is next to useless a lot of the time.
I offered my assessment of what it could be already. Its now aparrantly a one off blip. Make your mind up and I'll try to keep up.
I've no idea what you're saying here - where or when did I say anything about it being a one off blip? See what I mean about actually comprehending my posts?
I said: "Can you find me the threads, that would undoubtedly appear, which made you come to the almighty conclusion that the Humax EPGs do not populate within half an hour? Perhaps a few posts just so I can see why it led you to believe this is what it is like on our Humax machines." Do you need more time?
I don't need any time at all - my "almighty conclusion" isn't based on any threads or posts here but from my own experience of the box, as I've told you repeatedly from the start of this god-forsaken conversation. Even if I did want to dredge the board for supporting evidence, on the basis of this I doubt you'd read it, let alone accept it.
OK boinng I think it is now reached a point where it is pointless to let this continue. See you on another thread sometime and I hope it is a little while before we get into this sort of sillyness again.
I don't like to say I told you so, but I told you so.
He says Aquila literally exploded. Well, he got wound up so by this kind of thing much that eventually he vented his spleen and got banned. Lots of us just ignore Boinng for that, marc.
I don't like to say I told you so, but I told you so.
He says Aquila literally exploded. Well, he got wound up so by this kind of thing much that eventually he vented his spleen and got banned. Lots of us just ignore Boinng for that, marc.
Just for the record (and it is all on the record, in THAT thread) "Aquila"'s argument was essentially that not having the ability to edit your favourite channels was a better thing than having that ability. Because I pressed him on that absurd notion, Aquila apparently felt it was okay to start hurling insults and generally throwing his toys out of the pram, and eventually - through no prompting of mine - he was banned for this bizarre behaviour.
If that (or anything I've posted elsewhere) makes me a stirrer, then so be it. What do your posts in this thread make you, mr rhubarbe?
While I don't always agree with his arguments, and IMHO he has on one occasion been hasty in looking at the blackest side of a problem, I would have to say in the all the recent posts above he has been most restrained and logical. It is Marc that is showing signs of an irrational attachment to his PVR and a desire to to defend it against all comers, something which seems strangely prevalent in PVR owners generally. He's not the first and probably won't be the last.
Not wishing to weigh in on either side of this row, I have to say I'm impressed with how little bickering on this forum. These things too often descend into petty squabbles.
Also, in contrast to what you say Snail, I'd say it's refreshing that a lot of Humax owners are pretty open minded about their PVRs and their faults. I've read forums for other pieces of technology and people do tend to get a strong attachment to their piece of kit, and defend it to all comers. I don't see that so much here.
Also, the Toppy owners who post here tend to be similar, pointing out the things the Toppy can and can't do.
I reckon this is a symptom of no Freeview PVRs yet being entirely up to scratch, and us techie owners having to live with the consequences.
(None of what I'm saying is universally true, I'm just saying it's better here than on other forums.)
It is Marc that is showing signs of an irrational attachment to his PVR and a desire to to defend it against all comers
mark does seem to make a genuine effort try to help owners and shoppers. When I asked about the problems with the Humax he replied with a long detailed list. Hardly the actions of a person who needs to defend PVRs. Mark suggested the Panasonic may be right for me. He also suggested Humax would do well to match Topfield for its track record with bug fixes. This was done openly on digital spy forums.
Are we to believe that your comment is nothing more than pals from the same section of DS sticking up for each other? I suggest both of your behaviours are doing nothing for the quality of DS forums.
I've been around a bit, but only on this forum. i don't know what's happened to everyone today. I think some slime under the UK has turned everyone moody, in a reverse of the plot of Ghostbusters II.
I've been around a bit, but only on this forum. i don't know what's happened to everyone today. I think some slime under the UK has turned everyone moody, in a reverse of the plot of Ghostbusters II.
Lighten up everyone- it's St David's Day ffs : )
I think it's the new look DS! Earlier, the layout was doing strange things! And what is the point of the new look anyway - surely do they think people read the articles..?
It's so that in a year's time people who have just joined will be able to say that they preferred the old look, based upon what other people have told them it used to look like.
I don't like to say I told you so, but I told you so.
He says Aquila literally exploded. Well, he got wound up so by this kind of thing much that eventually he vented his spleen and got banned. Lots of us just ignore Boinng for that, marc.
Whoa, I didn't know you were so fond of Aquila! You kept that a secret for a long time.
Comments
It's embarrasingly slow in the way you've already admitted - unless the box has already been on for half an hour, the chances are the EPG page that you scroll to will be empty. You then have no choice but to wait.
Loading an empty page is unlikely to take very long. It'll be interesting to compare the relative performance of the Humax epg when it's permanently "fully laden" (as per the Fusion).
No, it's a subjective opinion, as I said earlier. I prefer to see what's on nine or ten channels at once (as per the Fusion) than what's now and next on just four or five channels (as per the Humax). I also like the option of seeing the next several hours worth of programming on a single channel. These are just personal preferences, not reasons why one box is better than another.
See above. If it takes 10 minutes for the programme information to appear in the guide after he's turned the box on, then he has no choice but to either set it manually or wait 10 minutes. There's nothing wrong with the way he's doing it, it's just the everyday practical impact of the Humax's current shortcomings - a genuine example that I witnessed myself.
The navigation niceties are irrelevant if it takes ten minutes (or sometimes longer) for the actual information to appear. Surely you're well aware of this?
I've no idea what future changes may be made (or what burning demand there is for them). In the past they've rearranged buttons and altered the buffering behaviour as a result of user feedback, and (coincidentally or not) fixed bugs that I've personally pointed out to them.
The points of my argument are fairly obvious, stated above, and echoed by others in this very same forum (namely that the epg, however "nice", doesn't actually work very well). I'm sorry if you don't like my "tone", but not sure what that's got to do with anything. Is it actually the fact that I'm right which offends you?
I think you're reading a little too much into this.
This thread was originally a comparison between Sky+, other Freeview PVRs generally, and the Humax (as the "undoubted" closest competitor to Sky+). I pointed out that there was doubt, particularly where the epg was concerned, and that's how we got here. No goalposts have been harmed in the process.
The Humax is for me by far the one I like best.
He wanted record a programme on the next day: The EPG populates when the machine is first switched on and say it takes 5 minutes for me to get the full 7 days worth of EPG for all channels to automatically fill out the guide. (Note the machine is actaully in standby and not pretend standby like the always on Fusions that only halt the display outputs on the back). If its a programme on the next day it will be in the guide after about a minute not 5 minutes. Given the timings I gave earlier, how on earth could it possibly take 10 minutes to record a programme on the next day? If his machine does have a bit of a fault, in the mean time he can use manual timers. You dont need the EPG for this so you can tell the machine to record x channel between such and such a time. Again, what 30 seconds? He can use this method until its replaced as well.
Re your last post, why will the EPG not be populated after half an hour? He really should get his machine looked into.
Re responsiveness compared to the Fusion: its noticeable. Sometimes on the Fusion you want to go into the EPG or Library or Calandar and it thinks about it for a second - I think its searching the hard disk to perform this as disk activity is heard on these commands. Is the operating system operating from the hard disk? Its not a problem and I suspect if it was it woud be talked about a lot more on the Fusion forums.
Re the EPG showing now and next on its grid view: no it doesnt. at present its grid is showing between 3pm and 5pm (15:00, 15:30, 16:00 and 16:30) with all the programmes listed going from left to right beside each channel. Therefore this supposed restrive view shows on view:
BBC1: Monk, Jackers, Pinky and the Brain, What's New Scooby doo, Grange Hill
BBC2: Through the Keyhole, Sun, Sea and Bargain Spotting, Ready Steady Cook, Weakest Link
ITV: Agatha Christie's Poirot, Pocoyo, Uncle Max, Rugrats, Prove It, My Parents are Aliens, You've Been Framed!, Dancing on Ice
Etc Etc
I cant share your view that this amount is restrictive and cant see how its subjective - but that is your opinion and you have every right to it. My Fusion only shows one show at a time or one channel at a time I am not going to pass judgment as to whether this is restrictive in todays post but peoplecan decide that for themselves anyway. My preference on an EPG (and this is my personal opinion) is that a grid format for an EPG is a good choice and it would probably need to show more than just the one programme at a time in the grid. When I used to use the Fusion freaquently, I used to flick between the default one show view or the one channel view during a sitting to get the most out of it and this seem to work the system well enough for me.
Re future enhancements exchanged between customers and Fusion: so there isnt anything in the offing is there. You sounded like there was for a minute. my bad.
Yes I did mention your tone. Its just a PVR. If its so bad wouldnt I be saying so? Thanks for toning it down. and no its not because you think you are right as you mentioned. I think I have pointed out enough corrections to make that obvious its not the case. Why dont you take a chill pill? If you dont like the fact that the EPG takes minutes to populate fully when first switch on fine. We want it instantly like it is saved to the hard disk as well. How you can go on and on about how bad it is stemming from this one thing is bemusing me. Dont fall out about it or go on the offensive its just a PVR at the end of the day.
But I didn't add anything to get out of any "mystery", I said that in my original post - you just misread it and went off one. And I'm the one who needs to tone it down?
The box was on for ten minutes before the entry appeared. It happened a few weeks ago, I can't remember which film it was now, so maybe it wasn't for the next day, maybe the film was a couple of days later, maybe he was tuned to a misbehaving mux, and maybe the wind was blowing from the east - the point is none of that should matter, the information should have been there and it wasn't - until ten minutes later.
You do realise that the only poster perpetually bringing up the Fusion in this thread is you? Quite what comparitive definitions of the word standby have to do with anything, I'm not sure. I've already said that the only machine which comes close to Sky+ in terms of its epg (the thrust of my original argument) is the Topfield with the automatic search TAP - not the Humax or the Fusion.
He shouldn't have to use manual timers, and indeed can't if he doesn't know exactly when the programme's on. Again, in comparison to Sky+, how is manual timers any kind of an answer?
It will be, just not necessarily in full before then. I think we both know this isn't just a problem with his box.
I know what you're saying, but as you say it's not an issue. All the epg information is on the disk, and I'm quite happy to wait a second (literally a second) for it to be loaded on screen. The crucial difference is that all the information is then present - it isn't just loading a screen and then waiting for the information to display later.
A fairer comparison would be to wait until the Humax is updated so it caches all it's epg information (as you and others have asked for), and then see whether it loads just as quick.
It's subjective because it is entirely down to personal taste. If you looked at an objective measurement of how much information either epg displays on one page, you'd probably find they're about the same - the Humax shows more programmes, and the Fusion shows more channels, but in terms of the amount of text on screen I doubt there's a lot between them. I prefer to have a quick look at what's on now on as many channels as possible - and for this purpose I find the Humax design restrictive as it restricts my view to just a handful of channels. If I want to know what's on next on any particular channel, or in a few hours time, I can press a button on the Fusion to do that.
Marc, from where I'm sitting it seems to be you that's taking this all personally and getting a little heated. I posted on this thread because I took issue with the assertion that of all the PVRs on the market, the Humax was "undoubtedly" closer to Sky+ than any other - and I mentioned the epg as one example of why this wasn't the case, at least currently. I don't see how you've "corrected" this notion, especially when you're basically saying the same thing - the epg is slow to load and needs work.
Just what did I do to him anyway? He seemed to literally explode at one point. Very impolite.
The exaggeration is telling. Normally people do this because the facts don’t back up the message you are intending to portray. Based on your comments and the way you are saying them I agree on Gomezz view too. Can you find me the threads, that would undoubtedly appear, which made you come to the almighty conclusion that the Humax EPGs do not populate within half an hour? Perhaps a few posts just so I can see why it led you to believe this is what it is like on our Humax machines.
Your proof about the 10 minute scheduling time has become "maybe it was that the mux wasn’t transmitting the EPG" or he couldn’t find it or it was on day 7 or something. Right you are then.
You ask why did I mention the Fusion? Its because you said "Loading an empty page is unlikely to take very long. It'll be interesting to compare the relative performance of the Humax epg when it's permanently "fully laden" (as per the Fusion)."
Seeing as you mention the Fusion and you own one, I thought it was something I can talk to you about that you will understand easily. By the way, when the EPG is full there is no lag in calling it up/using it at all.
There are situations where the Humax isn’t in proper standby and it will have the EPG when switched on, but this is of little consequence and does not add anything to the conversation I agree. I suppose it is similar in this respect to the Fusion because that PVR is on constantly even in standby - you just cant see the picture. Switching on the Fusion you will find everything there and ready to go and in the Humax its only in situations when the machine is recording in standby can it be switched on fast and see everything in the EPG instantly. You mention the Topfield is the closest thing to SKy+ EPG because it has a search with a third party tap installed. Nothing wrong with your opinion that’s up to you. I don’t think I said anything about that opinion for or against yet.
Re manual timers. Read my post. If his machines takes 30 minutes to get anywhere near a 7 day epg it sounds like there is something wrong. My workaround while his machine has this fault is to use manual timers so that it takes seconds rather than wait 10 or 30 minutes. Again, since this has now become a one off, don’t worry about it.
Now lets see, what’s next. OK so you said that you find the EPG view quite restrictive on the amount of information on view. I have detailed what’s on view for you. You think the view is restrictive, still. That’s fine. Again you point to it being subjective. OK.
You said "I prefer to have a quick look at what's on now on as many channels as possible - and for this purpose I find the Humax design restrictive as it restricts my view to just a handful of channels."
If you must look through a long list of channels to see what’s on now: Press the list button on the Humax remote once: Up comes a list of, what, 10 or 15 channels down a list where you can see what’s on now for each of them. This is overlaid on top of the programme you are viewing or you can switch off the transparency overlay.
I have been trying to tell you to calm it down a bit as it’s only a PVR and you seem to have. There’s nothing wrong with saying why you think a certain PVR resembles a Sky+ EPG. You think the Topfield is the closest thing to the Sky+ EPG because of one thing. Then another says something about their opinion and then you start going on about how the machine doesn’t populate the EPG until it’s first switched on blah blah blah. I think you made your points so there is no need for bashing other peoples PVRs. Not everyone is going to agree that’s all. Where you have been making mistakes I have tried to correct them. Funnily enough, those same reasons against the Humax you gave apply to your own choice somewhat. There are some quite specific issues besides the EPG population time on the Topfield. A tap will get around this satisfactorily but we understand the manufacturer is working on a fix to it (the Topfield EPG only populates the channel that it’s on). The Sky+ EPG isn’t like this at all.
You can also search for programmes for recording in the Humax EPG, whereas you cannot in the Topfield but you do mention this is possible with a 3rd party tap at least which is quite correct. I’m not still not up to speed on the Topfield or downloaded any taps yet or anything but I think the tap in question takes it one step further though in that it can automatically record the programme once it’s found it, whereas on the Humax you have to press the OK button. Conversely, there is no configuring and manually hooking up the machine to a PC involved in the process with the Humax. I guess there is a bit of cancelling out here, however I would love to be able to tell the Humax to record anything in the EPG with the word say Lost whenever it comes up.
Goodness.
Marc, I haven't made any mistakes. Throughout this thread I've spoken from direct experience - I'm not paraphrasing, exagerrating or anything else. If you don't want to accept that could possibly be the case then so be it, you're quite free to impart your own experience, but don't confuse that with "correction".
The only exagerration is your apparent amazement at all this. It's been a common enough complaint up till now.
Marc, you brought up 4TV/Fusion in your first reply to me, and in every post thereafter. It's not because of anything I said. Frankly I don't think the comparison is particularly interesting, and it certainly wasn't anything I was alluding to when I entered the thread.
..which Ieads us eventually to..
..which is exactly what the Topfield can do with the relevant TAP (and another to cache the info). You can be forgiven for not being entirely knowledgable on the Topfield - it must be hard work correcting everyone here - but if you'd comprehended my earlier posts, you'd already know I'd mentioned the auto-search TAP as one of the things which bring the Topfield much closer to Sky+ than the Humax can claim to be. And correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that the only point I was making in the first place?
I've done all the corrections. Now I bring the thing back on topic on issues you are comfortable with, and now you want to argue about it. Like I said before, I have not yet said anything 'against' your initial point. Chill.
Then you go "And correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that the only point I was making in the first place?"
Erm that would have been ideal but out popped:
"EPG view restrictive"
"The humax is next to useless a lot of the time"
"unless the box has already been on for half an hour, the chances are the EPG page that you scroll to will be empty."
"If it takes 10 minutes for the programme information to appear in the guide after he's turned the box on, then he has no choice but to either set it manually or wait 10 minutes. There's nothing wrong with the way he's doing it, it's just the everyday practical impact of the Humax's current shortcomings." I dont think anyone doubts you - I offered my assessment of what it could be already. Its now aparrantly a one off blip. Make your mind up and I'll try to keep up.
"The navigation niceties are irrelevant if it takes ten minutes (or sometimes longer) for the actual information to appear."
"30 minute wait on Humaxes with still no complete EPG - It's been a common enough complaint up till now"
"unless the box has already been on for half an hour, the chances are the EPG page that you scroll to will be empty."
I said: "Can you find me the threads, that would undoubtedly appear, which made you come to the almighty conclusion that the Humax EPGs do not populate within half an hour? Perhaps a few posts just so I can see why it led you to believe this is what it is like on our Humax machines." Do you need more time?
You can't correct my own experience Marc, I have already tried to explain that.
Let me correct you here - you took us off topic by banging on about the fusion and trying to prove the humax epg is brill, white is black, and so on. I've now dragged us back on topic by reminding you of my original point.
..but still the "corrections" continue..
Marc, if you're going to parrot me endlessly at least get it right - I said the Humax epg is next to useless a lot of the time.
I've no idea what you're saying here - where or when did I say anything about it being a one off blip? See what I mean about actually comprehending my posts?
I don't need any time at all - my "almighty conclusion" isn't based on any threads or posts here but from my own experience of the box, as I've told you repeatedly from the start of this god-forsaken conversation. Even if I did want to dredge the board for supporting evidence, on the basis of this I doubt you'd read it, let alone accept it.
He says Aquila literally exploded. Well, he got wound up so by this kind of thing much that eventually he vented his spleen and got banned. Lots of us just ignore Boinng for that, marc.
Just for the record (and it is all on the record, in THAT thread) "Aquila"'s argument was essentially that not having the ability to edit your favourite channels was a better thing than having that ability. Because I pressed him on that absurd notion, Aquila apparently felt it was okay to start hurling insults and generally throwing his toys out of the pram, and eventually - through no prompting of mine - he was banned for this bizarre behaviour.
If that (or anything I've posted elsewhere) makes me a stirrer, then so be it. What do your posts in this thread make you, mr rhubarbe?
While I don't always agree with his arguments, and IMHO he has on one occasion been hasty in looking at the blackest side of a problem, I would have to say in the all the recent posts above he has been most restrained and logical. It is Marc that is showing signs of an irrational attachment to his PVR and a desire to to defend it against all comers, something which seems strangely prevalent in PVR owners generally. He's not the first and probably won't be the last.
Snail
Not wishing to weigh in on either side of this row, I have to say I'm impressed with how little bickering on this forum. These things too often descend into petty squabbles.
Also, in contrast to what you say Snail, I'd say it's refreshing that a lot of Humax owners are pretty open minded about their PVRs and their faults. I've read forums for other pieces of technology and people do tend to get a strong attachment to their piece of kit, and defend it to all comers. I don't see that so much here.
Also, the Toppy owners who post here tend to be similar, pointing out the things the Toppy can and can't do.
I reckon this is a symptom of no Freeview PVRs yet being entirely up to scratch, and us techie owners having to live with the consequences.
(None of what I'm saying is universally true, I'm just saying it's better here than on other forums.)
mark does seem to make a genuine effort try to help owners and shoppers. When I asked about the problems with the Humax he replied with a long detailed list. Hardly the actions of a person who needs to defend PVRs. Mark suggested the Panasonic may be right for me. He also suggested Humax would do well to match Topfield for its track record with bug fixes. This was done openly on digital spy forums.
Are we to believe that your comment is nothing more than pals from the same section of DS sticking up for each other? I suggest both of your behaviours are doing nothing for the quality of DS forums.
I've been around a bit, but only on this forum. i don't know what's happened to everyone today. I think some slime under the UK has turned everyone moody, in a reverse of the plot of Ghostbusters II.
Lighten up everyone- it's St David's Day ffs : )
I think it's the new look DS! Earlier, the layout was doing strange things! And what is the point of the new look anyway - surely do they think people read the articles..?