It was badly unbalanced. A few token efforts at balance along the lines if "we accept that there is pressure on public finances, and everyone has to make cuts, but we shouldn't" it's a sad state of affairs, but everything needs to be on the table in the effort to cut costs.
You talk as if the ill and disabled are receiving or asking for special treatment, to be exempt from cuts. They are receiving the opposite treatment they are the targets again and again for cut after cut. They are the ones facing the biggest cuts. They are the ones depicted as scroungers, the victims of increasing hate crime, the scapegoats to be sacrificed.
You're too trusting Tim. If it was changing the system with concern for the claimants why did they stop using DWP Doctors and start using atos? There is much about atos and their chums unum I think it is, online. America won't entertain them!
It was badly unbalanced. A few token efforts at balance along the lines if "we accept that there is pressure on public finances, and everyone has to make cuts, but we shouldn't" it's a sad state of affairs, but everything needs to be on the table in the effort to cut costs.
I do not understand this obsession with reducing costs I thought the objective was to reduce the deficit and thart is not the sme thing:
Example A
Expenditure £200bn
Income £220bn
Surplus £20 bn
Example B
Expenditure £180bn
Income £150bn
Deficit £30bn
Costs have been cut by £20bn or 10% but a surplus has become a deficit
As with your home budgets or in any size of businesses you need to watch the bottom line not just one side of the equation
One also has to consider the longer term
Scenario A - The government makes savings of £50bn but in doing so incurs costs of £100bn over 10 years
Scenario B - They invest £50bn in infrastructure and bring in £100bn over subsequent years
The problem has been that successive governments have constantly followed scenario a and this is part of the problems we have with a lack of productivity
I agree. It's the same with people with chronic illnesses that are only going to get worse with time, not better. It is a shambles.
How much will it cost to reassess all these cases again and again?
Do you think they care, One of the problems of having very wealthy people running the country is that they are immune from the effects of their decisions and probably do not have any real contact with anyone who is impacted
Because the demeaning assessments discourage people from claiming the benefit. Especially if the benefit keeps being denied and won on appeal.
Because the government moves the goal posts for example not having a leg used to get you ESA, now it does not.
Because the benefit is based on what help from another physically present person you need. They can expect you to have learned to cope and adapt or have aids to help you or adaptions to your home. So you no longer need so much help from another person.
Because the demeaning assessments discourage people from claiming the benefit. Especially if the benefit keeps being denied and won on appeal.
Because the government moves the goal posts for example not having a leg used to get you ESA, now it does not.
Because the benefit is based on what help from another physically present person you need. They can expect you to have learned to cope and adapt or have aids to help you or adaptions to your home. So you no longer need so much help from another person.
What they do not realise is that the more independent you are (and thus more likely to find work) the more it costs. A person totally dependent on parents may incur very little by way of costs but never develop skills like IT or confidence required to survive in the workplace, social interaction and independent adapted living are the keys to reducing dependence on the state and thus reducing the costs and increasing the contribution
It seems the governemnt are too blind to see this and are crippled by their ideaologies
Esther McVey is so common. I bet they get someone posh for important matters, such as business leaders; but the scumbag disabled get common-as-muck McVey.
It was pretty much as i suspected. Atos has been given most of the medicals because they surpassed the targets for getting people off of Incapacity benefit. My guess is that they will surpass this target too an what is currently a 20% target will end up closer to 40%. The obvious problem with that is the fact that the fraud rate for DLA is 0.5%, which means the vast majority will be losing a benefit they need.
How on earth can you look at a guy missing a leg, then conclude that they shouldn't get DLA?
And why reassess every few years? In case it has grown back?
Shambles!
Regards,
Cypher
Initially somebody may have problems with using a prosthetic leg. But as time goes by they should improve and not have the same problems. If they do still have problems then they will receive benefits, That is no different than under DLA since 1992 and probably under the preceding Mobility Allowance scheme.
Initially somebody may have problems with using a prosthetic leg. But as time goes by they should improve and not have the same problems. If they do still have problems then they will receive benefits, That is no different than under DLA since 1992 and probably under the preceding Mobility Allowance scheme.
Can I ask whether you are speaking from experience
And yes in many cases you do learn coping mechanisms and that is when the challenges and the costs start and it sometimes feels that you would be better off not bothering
i havent read through this thread. just bits here and there. i dont know the facts, true or false depending on which newspaper is spouting off. i do know of people who are receiving dla, and i can truthfully say, there is nothing wrong with them. there are several members of my family getting it. i dont know why. i cant see that its needed. but are they going to say "oh no. i dont deserve that as im not disabled". no they dont. they take it. this is very unfortunate for genuine cases of need. the un-genuine cases have to be weeded out. just as the jsa claimants who claim while working ful time. some genuine people slip through the net. but there are too many who are manipulating the rules. these have to be dealt with. if not, can someone show me how to get council tax benefits, pension credits, jsa, dla etc please.
i havent read through this thread. just bits here and there. i dont know the facts, true or false depending on which newspaper is spouting off. i do know of people who are receiving dla, and i can truthfully say, there is nothing wrong with them. there are several members of my family getting it. i dont know why. i cant see that its needed. but are they going to say "oh no. i dont deserve that as im not disabled". no they dont. they take it. this is very unfortunate for genuine cases of need. the un-genuine cases have to be weeded out. just as the jsa claimants who claim while working ful time. some genuine people slip through the net. but there are too many who are manipulating the rules. these have to be dealt with. if not, can someone show me how to get council tax benefits, pension credits, jsa, dla etc please.
Sorry, I just don't believe you and bear in mind, because you can't see anything wrong, that does not mean there is nothing wrong.
i havent read through this thread. just bits here and there. i dont know the facts, true or false depending on which newspaper is spouting off. i do know of people who are receiving dla, and i can truthfully say, there is nothing wrong with them. there are several members of my family getting it. i dont know why. i cant see that its needed. but are they going to say "oh no. i dont deserve that as im not disabled". no they dont. they take it. this is very unfortunate for genuine cases of need. the un-genuine cases have to be weeded out. just as the jsa claimants who claim while working ful time. some genuine people slip through the net. but there are too many who are manipulating the rules. these have to be dealt with. if not, can someone show me how to get council tax benefits, pension credits, jsa, dla etc please.
You do seem to be a very bitter person, i have read alot of your comments about people who claim benefits or are council tenants, When i was first awarded DLA in 1995 i had a full medical that was done by a DWP doctor, and i saw a differant DWP doctor for sickness benifit, and saw a diffarant doctor for my industral injurys benefit. I found it very stressfull and painfull to go though that 3 times when the 1 doctor could have sorted it.You say some genuine cases slip though have you seen all the bad reports about atos, and how many people win there claim at appeal because that company fail the sick and disabled.My adice to you is if you think your family members are up to no good and are benefit cheats then report them, do something about it. I would sooner have my health back then benefits anyday. Dont always believe what the newspapers say. The truth can be found atos have been caught out more then once by by undercover tv programs. The BMA have said the assessment done by atos is not fit forpurpose
i havent read through this thread. just bits here and there. i dont know the facts, true or false depending on which newspaper is spouting off. i do know of people who are receiving dla, and i can truthfully say, there is nothing wrong with them. there are several members of my family getting it. i dont know why. i cant see that its needed. but are they going to say "oh no. i dont deserve that as im not disabled". no they dont. they take it. this is very unfortunate for genuine cases of need. the un-genuine cases have to be weeded out. just as the jsa claimants who claim while working ful time. some genuine people slip through the net. but there are too many who are manipulating the rules. these have to be dealt with. if not, can someone show me how to get council tax benefits, pension credits, jsa, dla etc please.
The bit in bold says it all. You don't know why end of conversation.
i havent read through this thread. just bits here and there. i dont know the facts, true or false depending on which newspaper is spouting off. i do know of people who are receiving dla, and i can truthfully say, there is nothing wrong with them. there are several members of my family getting it. i dont know why. i cant see that its needed. but are they going to say "oh no. i dont deserve that as im not disabled". no they dont. they take it. this is very unfortunate for genuine cases of need. the un-genuine cases have to be weeded out. just as the jsa claimants who claim while working ful time. some genuine people slip through the net. but there are too many who are manipulating the rules. these have to be dealt with. if not, can someone show me how to get council tax benefits, pension credits, jsa, dla etc please.
Every man and his dog seems to claim to know loads of people who are fraudulently clamining beenfits, but when pushed to give more details never seem to give any...
I know plenty of people who claim DLA who look like nothing is wrong with them, but they have serious mental illnesses like Schizophrenia and Bipolar I with psychosis and have spent much of their lives in hospitals and can at times be a danger to themselves or others. Many would never tell people that they suffer from such serious mental health problems because they fear the stigma and telling people about their health distresses them. So if asked they would say they have depression or anxiety, something far less scary.
Despite this, I am somewhat bigoted against those people who have Bipolar II and have never been long-term hospital patients and who seem to have little wrong with them, especially if it has taken many years for them to be diagnosed and doubly so if they are not on any medication. Also those who claim to have Schizophrenia, but have only had one short stay in hospital and have been cannabis or heavy alcohol users as I would suspect cannabis or alcohol induced psychosis at sometime or currently misdiagnosed as schizophrenia. But then I try to remind myself I do not know all the details and I am not living in their shoes.
I am also somewhat bigoted against those with personality disorders receiving DLA as personality disorders unlike mental illnesses are believed to have no underlying physiological cause. But then many people with personality disorders also have some mental handicap as in learning disability, which is physiological cause, or have undergone severe psychological trauma.
Others just appear to be awkward or attention seeking. Some even pretend to have hallucinations or to be unsteady on their feet, but having spent a lot of time with people genuinely ill it becomes apparent they are play acting, attention seeking, they may also have temper tantrums which they think are them being psychotic but they do not lose touch with reality, they are not ill just ill behaved. But then I have known people whose care team including doctor and psychiatrist, would have said have little or nothing wrong with them and are mostly attention seeking who have ended up dead due to their mental health problems and attention seeking, cries for help going unheeded.
I think it is unfortunately in many people's nature to judge others. Even if we do not know all the facts and are not living in their shoes. It is part of my character even though I should know better.
"Dispatches - brought to you in association with UK Uncut."
Hardly they could have discredited much of what was said in defence of the changes. The statements about lifetime awards, no medical evidence, no checks. All factually incorrect.
Presented far more stark facts about the changes. How people with various harrowing illness and disabilities will be affected by the change in descriptors DLA vs PIP. Along with statements from various official bodies of doctors and specialists.
They could have also mentioned that it is part of an ongoing process of reducing support even to the most severely disabled mentioning the scrapping of the national independent living fund, the under-occupancy rules for housing benefit affecting those in adapted homes, the scrapping of the severe disability premium with Universal Credit, etc. That people fear being institutionalized or left with inadequate support possibly even made destitute.
"Dispatches - brought to you in association with UK Uncut."
Most people i have met how think this way are very ignorant about a disabled persons needs.With the money to be able to keep ones own independents, works out cheaper for the country then social services haveing to do alot more for these people.Short sighted cuts will cost more money in the long run. Are you saying we cannot afford DLA or we cannot afford disabled people ?
Comments
You're too trusting Tim. If it was changing the system with concern for the claimants why did they stop using DWP Doctors and start using atos? There is much about atos and their chums unum I think it is, online. America won't entertain them!
I do not understand this obsession with reducing costs I thought the objective was to reduce the deficit and thart is not the sme thing:
Example A
Expenditure £200bn
Income £220bn
Surplus £20 bn
Example B
Expenditure £180bn
Income £150bn
Deficit £30bn
Costs have been cut by £20bn or 10% but a surplus has become a deficit
As with your home budgets or in any size of businesses you need to watch the bottom line not just one side of the equation
One also has to consider the longer term
Scenario A - The government makes savings of £50bn but in doing so incurs costs of £100bn over 10 years
Scenario B - They invest £50bn in infrastructure and bring in £100bn over subsequent years
The problem has been that successive governments have constantly followed scenario a and this is part of the problems we have with a lack of productivity
I agree. It's the same with people with chronic illnesses that are only going to get worse with time, not better. It is a shambles.
How much will it cost to reassess all these cases again and again?
Do you think they care, One of the problems of having very wealthy people running the country is that they are immune from the effects of their decisions and probably do not have any real contact with anyone who is impacted
Because the government moves the goal posts for example not having a leg used to get you ESA, now it does not.
Because the benefit is based on what help from another physically present person you need. They can expect you to have learned to cope and adapt or have aids to help you or adaptions to your home. So you no longer need so much help from another person.
What they do not realise is that the more independent you are (and thus more likely to find work) the more it costs. A person totally dependent on parents may incur very little by way of costs but never develop skills like IT or confidence required to survive in the workplace, social interaction and independent adapted living are the keys to reducing dependence on the state and thus reducing the costs and increasing the contribution
It seems the governemnt are too blind to see this and are crippled by their ideaologies
Can I ask whether you are speaking from experience
And yes in many cases you do learn coping mechanisms and that is when the challenges and the costs start and it sometimes feels that you would be better off not bothering
Sorry, I just don't believe you and bear in mind, because you can't see anything wrong, that does not mean there is nothing wrong.
You do seem to be a very bitter person, i have read alot of your comments about people who claim benefits or are council tenants, When i was first awarded DLA in 1995 i had a full medical that was done by a DWP doctor, and i saw a differant DWP doctor for sickness benifit, and saw a diffarant doctor for my industral injurys benefit. I found it very stressfull and painfull to go though that 3 times when the 1 doctor could have sorted it.You say some genuine cases slip though have you seen all the bad reports about atos, and how many people win there claim at appeal because that company fail the sick and disabled.My adice to you is if you think your family members are up to no good and are benefit cheats then report them, do something about it. I would sooner have my health back then benefits anyday. Dont always believe what the newspapers say. The truth can be found atos have been caught out more then once by by undercover tv programs. The BMA have said the assessment done by atos is not fit forpurpose
The bit in bold says it all. You don't know why end of conversation.
Have you reported them and if not why not?
I think the truth is that you're making this up.
Also had a lot of Paralympians on there, its was a fairly neutral programme.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ade_Adepitan - he hosted it.
Despite this, I am somewhat bigoted against those people who have Bipolar II and have never been long-term hospital patients and who seem to have little wrong with them, especially if it has taken many years for them to be diagnosed and doubly so if they are not on any medication. Also those who claim to have Schizophrenia, but have only had one short stay in hospital and have been cannabis or heavy alcohol users as I would suspect cannabis or alcohol induced psychosis at sometime or currently misdiagnosed as schizophrenia. But then I try to remind myself I do not know all the details and I am not living in their shoes.
I am also somewhat bigoted against those with personality disorders receiving DLA as personality disorders unlike mental illnesses are believed to have no underlying physiological cause. But then many people with personality disorders also have some mental handicap as in learning disability, which is physiological cause, or have undergone severe psychological trauma.
Others just appear to be awkward or attention seeking. Some even pretend to have hallucinations or to be unsteady on their feet, but having spent a lot of time with people genuinely ill it becomes apparent they are play acting, attention seeking, they may also have temper tantrums which they think are them being psychotic but they do not lose touch with reality, they are not ill just ill behaved. But then I have known people whose care team including doctor and psychiatrist, would have said have little or nothing wrong with them and are mostly attention seeking who have ended up dead due to their mental health problems and attention seeking, cries for help going unheeded.
I think it is unfortunately in many people's nature to judge others. Even if we do not know all the facts and are not living in their shoes. It is part of my character even though I should know better.
Presented far more stark facts about the changes. How people with various harrowing illness and disabilities will be affected by the change in descriptors DLA vs PIP. Along with statements from various official bodies of doctors and specialists.
They could have also mentioned that it is part of an ongoing process of reducing support even to the most severely disabled mentioning the scrapping of the national independent living fund, the under-occupancy rules for housing benefit affecting those in adapted homes, the scrapping of the severe disability premium with Universal Credit, etc. That people fear being institutionalized or left with inadequate support possibly even made destitute.
This message brought to you by - Tory Tops, where the spin never stops.
Most people i have met how think this way are very ignorant about a disabled persons needs.With the money to be able to keep ones own independents, works out cheaper for the country then social services haveing to do alot more for these people.Short sighted cuts will cost more money in the long run. Are you saying we cannot afford DLA or we cannot afford disabled people ?
Doctor Constantine: Well, there is a war on... is it possible you miscounted?