Explosion at Boston Marathon

1208209211213214220

Comments

  • bollywoodbollywood Posts: 67,769
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    Ethel_Fred wrote: »
    Perhaps the FBI gave them them the wrong bombs, perhaps the FBI lost interest when the brothers didn't bite, either because they weren't plotting at that time or realised they were being set up, perhaps the FBI contacts were what resulted in the brothers deciding to kill people.

    Seriously. The FBI gave them the wrong bombs?
  • jzeejzee Posts: 25,498
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Ethel_Fred wrote: »
    Perhaps the FBI gave them them the wrong bombs, perhaps the FBI lost interest when the brothers didn't bite, either because they weren't plotting at that time or realised they were being set up, perhaps the FBI contacts were what resulted in the brothers deciding to kill people.
    Or the elder brother was a mentally unstable dropout who decided he wanted to punish people who were happy & got on together, and the younger brother only got involved because the idea of losing his only brother, who he looked up to his whole life, meant he wouldn't want to live either.
  • Ethel_FredEthel_Fred Posts: 34,127
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Proves nothing - they could be trying to fit innocent behaviour into the terrorism claims in an attempt to make sense of things.

    Based on what has been reported you wouldn't realise that the various reports were about the same people so different are they .
  • phylo_roadkingphylo_roadking Posts: 21,339
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    I've yet to meet a CT'er who understands Occam's Razor...:rolleyes:

    ...tho' I've met plenty who slit their own throats on it! :p
  • Ethel_FredEthel_Fred Posts: 34,127
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    bollywood wrote: »
    Seriously. The FBI gave them the wrong bombs?
    No, not seriously, but the FBI does have a track record of "assisting" loudmouths into plotting terrorist acts so if it did turn out to be true I wouldn't be surprised
  • slick1twoslick1two Posts: 2,877
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    jzee wrote: »
    Apparently he is convinced the 'real' culprit is Abu Rahman Ali Alharbi, son of a Saudi prince, first mentioned here, who was injured in the bombing and has since been fully cleared of any involvement:rolleyes:.

    Who is about to be deported back to Saudi Arabia apparently. Due to being a threat to national security.

    http://sandrarose.com/2013/04/obama-orders-first-boston-bombing-suspect-deported-back-to-saudi-arabia/
  • skipjack79skipjack79 Posts: 3,250
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Ethel_Fred wrote: »
    Perhaps the FBI gave them them the wrong bombs, perhaps the FBI lost interest when the brothers didn't bite, either because they weren't plotting at that time or realised they were being set up, perhaps the FBI contacts were what resulted in the brothers deciding to kill people.

    I see we're firmly entering tin foil hat territory. The FBI had a couple of genuine shrapnel filled pressure cooker bombs lying around the office, and accidentally gave these to their "sting" targets, and then forgot the brothers were involved so took 5 days to identify and arrest them. I like how every single of your suggestions tries to lay the blame with the US authorities, and not with the murderous Jihadists.
  • Ethel_FredEthel_Fred Posts: 34,127
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    I've yet to meet a CT'er who understands Occam's Razor...:rolleyes:
    The simplest explanation is that it's another Sandy Hook, Aurora, Columbine...

    ... or any of a dozen other massacres caused by disaffected, isolated young males.

    But then Occam's Razor says that the simplest solution is generally the correct solution - not that it is the correct solution.
  • phylo_roadkingphylo_roadking Posts: 21,339
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    but the FBI does have a track record of "assisting" loudmouths into plotting terrorist acts so if it did turn out to be true I wouldn't be surprised

    Only IIRC to the point and just beyond it legally that said plotting itself turns into lawbreaking...

    Not as far as helping them to commit the final/ultimate crime! :rolleyes: Otherwise they hand an "entrapment" defence to the suspects...
  • slick1twoslick1two Posts: 2,877
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    jzee wrote: »
    Or the elder brother was a mentally unstable dropout who decided he wanted to punish people who were happy & got on together, and the younger brother only got involved because the idea of losing his only brother, who he looked up to his whole life, meant he wouldn't want to live either.

    But then all the more reason to set him up perhaps? Knowing he is unstable, doesn't get on with people, etc You see we can explore this angle and you can find some logic in it interestingly.

    Hehe we can theorize all night because we don't have too much to go on. Even Glenn Becks seems to have his own ideas and is pointing fingers at Obama. This whole thing is blowing in so many directions.
  • phylo_roadkingphylo_roadking Posts: 21,339
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    The simplest explanation is that it's another Sandy Hook, Aurora, Columbine...

    ... or any of a dozen other massacres caused by disaffected, isolated young males.

    The simplest explanation that fits ALL the recognised evidence - disaffected, isolated young males do not get their hands on military-grade explosives...
  • Ethel_FredEthel_Fred Posts: 34,127
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    skipjack79 wrote: »
    I see we're firmly entering tin foil hat territory. The FBI had a couple of genuine shrapnel filled pressure cooker bombs lying around the office, and accidentally gave these to their "sting" targets, and then forgot the brothers were involved so took 5 days to identify and arrest them. I like how every single of your suggestions tries to lay the blame with the US authorities, and not with the murderous Jihadists.
    If you read the thread properly you would have realised that my comment was in response to someone asking if the FBI gave them live bombs. I don't believe in any of them are likely though they are a possibility based on the cock-up theory of history.

    My personal view is that they are - as I've said several times - oh too typical embittered, isolated young American males who solve the problems in their life with a gun. Even pipe bombs aren't unusual in this sort of mass murder (though by FBI standards this wasn't a mass murder)
  • bollywoodbollywood Posts: 67,769
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    Ethel_Fred wrote: »
    No, not seriously, but the FBI does have a track record of "assisting" loudmouths into plotting terrorist acts so if it did turn out to be true I wouldn't be surprised


    Assisting people to plot and then arresting them or allowing them to carry out terroristic acts against its own citizens? They are two entirely different things.

    Like the FBI has a cupboard full of pressure cooker bombs marked real and fake.
  • jzeejzee Posts: 25,498
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    slick1two wrote: »
    Who is about to be deported back to Saudi Arabia apparently. Due to being a threat to national security.

    http://sandrarose.com/2013/04/obama-orders-first-boston-bombing-suspect-deported-back-to-saudi-arabia/
    According to unnamed sources, and with the case brought up by Rand Paul (son of Ron Paul) noted feeder of various CTs.
  • Ethel_FredEthel_Fred Posts: 34,127
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    The simplest explanation that fits ALL the recognised evidence - disaffected, isolated young males do not get their hands on military-grade explosives...
    Except they didn't have "military grade explosives". They had gunpowder, possibly fertiliser based explosives to make pipe bombs
  • Ethel_FredEthel_Fred Posts: 34,127
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    bollywood wrote: »
    Assisting people to plot and then arresting them or allowing them to carry out terroristic acts against its own citizens? They are two entirely different things.

    Like the FBI has a cupboard full of pressure cooker bombs marked real and fake.
    Cock-ups do happen. But as I say, I don't take the possibility of FBI assistance seriously. So stop saying that I do.
  • slick1twoslick1two Posts: 2,877
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    skipjack79 wrote: »
    I see we're firmly entering tin foil hat territory. The FBI had a couple of genuine shrapnel filled pressure cooker bombs lying around the office, and accidentally gave these to their "sting" targets, and then forgot the brothers were involved so took 5 days to identify and arrest them. I like how every single of your suggestions tries to lay the blame with the US authorities, and not with the murderous Jihadists.

    People in power have never lied to us? shock horror! To even suggest a thing. I guess our expenses scandal didn't happen? Look how dirty rotten MPs were swindling us. I guess Clinton never had an affair with Miss Lewinsky. I guess Tony Blair didn't lie about Weapons of Mass Destruction which were never found in Iraq but it took us to war. Did I imagine these things and many more, or are these real things that our powers have done not so long ago. How about every broken promise our governments have given us only to break them and do whatever the hell fits their agenda?

    Amazing that you can have so much faith in the authorities. Again, no one is saying that the FBI did this in this case, but to completely dismiss the possibility of foul play is also not a good thing.

    edit: forgot to mention the De Menezes incident. Police fabricated a story, saying he ran when he walked, that he vaulted the ticket barrier at the station, when he used a travel card. Think about it. Blaming people in authority is not such a wrong thing, when you see real live examples of it, you know they are capable.
  • phylo_roadkingphylo_roadking Posts: 21,339
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Except they didn't have "military grade explosives". They had gunpowder, possibly fertiliser based explosives to make pipe bombs

    You're working backwards from what's in a typical pipebomb ;) I seem however to remember announcements that Tamerlan was found with military grade-explosives (or traces of it) about his person...
  • PinkPetuniaPinkPetunia Posts: 5,479
    Forum Member
    slick1two wrote: »
    When it comes to a point people fear posting their views in fear of soem form of aggressive verbal retribution then yes, there perhaps should at least be a warning.

    Just read someone earlier daring someone to post their opinion, with the threat of being labeled a CT. Is that a show of fair play in your eyes? I think not!

    A lot of these kind of posts can get aggressive and cliquey . Once it starts you will find people who dare ask about or doubt any point will get ridiculed and sneered at . Which is when I back away .Unfortunately it is only a few who are aggressive and sneery and spoil it for others .
  • Pisces CloudPisces Cloud Posts: 30,239
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    slick1two wrote: »
    People in power have never lied to us? shock horror! To even suggest a thing. I guess our expenses scandal didn't happen? Look how dirty rotten MPs were swindling us. I guess Clinton never had an affair with Miss Lewinsky. I guess Tony Blair didn't lie about Weapons of Mass Destruction which were never found in Iraq but it took us to war. Did I imagine these things and many more, or are these real things that our powers have done not so long ago. How about every broken promise our governments have given us only to break them and do whatever the hell fits their agenda?

    Amazing that you can have so much faith in the authorities. Again, no one is saying that the FBI did this in this case, but to completely dismiss the possibility of foul play is also not a good thing.

    I've no doubt that cover-ups and conspiracies have occurred at some point, but I don't think that's happened here. Not with one of the perpetrators being caught alive.
  • jzeejzee Posts: 25,498
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    slick1two wrote: »
    But then all the more reason to set him up perhaps? Knowing he is unstable, doesn't get on with people, etc You see we can explore this angle and you can find some logic in it interestingly.
    I think what we know about him paints its own picture, take a look at this new 26 minute interview with his uncle Ruslan Tsarni , Tsarni states he found out from a mutual acquiantance that Tamerlan had come under the influence of an Armenian convert imam, who he states brainwashed him. We also know now that the mother appears to have abruptly turned more religious at some point, apparently changing from dressing in fashionable clothes (she was previously a beautician) to wearing traditional Islamic dress as her son did for a month or so. The uncle is saying he believes the brothers weren't being brought up properly, but he's not too clear whether it's his brother or wife he is criticising more, or the fact they were constantly arguing (they eventually divorced). Tamerlan apparently called his uncle an infidel.
  • GeneralissimoGeneralissimo Posts: 6,289
    Forum Member
    I think there is a lot more to this story than meets the eye, and there was a wider terror cell at work, these two just strike me as classic fall guys. If we are to believe that they made the bombs themselves, then planned and carried out the attacks alone, then why didn't they have a plan for after the event? They clearly didn't intend to kill themselves, but nor did they try to disguise their identities for the CCTV cameras, or try to leave Boston (or indeed the country) despite having three days to do so.
  • TakaeTakae Posts: 13,555
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    You're working backwards from what's in a typical pipebomb ;) I seem however to remember announcements that Tamerlan was found with military grade-explosives (or traces of it) about his person...

    Link, please. All officials in news reports I read so far only said "explosives".
  • bollywoodbollywood Posts: 67,769
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    slick1two wrote: »
    People in power have never lied to us? shock horror! To even suggest a thing. I guess our expenses scandal didn't happen? Look how dirty rotten MPs were swindling us. I guess Clinton never had an affair with Miss Lewinsky. I guess Tony Blair didn't lie about Weapons of Mass Destruction which were never found in Iraq but it took us to war. Did I imagine these things and many more, or are these real things that our powers have done not so long ago. How about every broken promise our governments have given us only to break them and do whatever the hell fits their agenda?

    Amazing that you can have so much faith in the authorities. Again, no one is saying that the FBI did this in this case, but to completely dismiss the possibility of foul play is also not a good thing.

    edit: forgot to mention the De Menezes incident. Police fabricated a story, saying he ran when he walked, that he vaulted the ticket barrier at the station, when he used a travel card. Think about it. Blaming people in authority is not such a wrong thing, when you see real live examples of it, you know they are capable.

    What foul play are you thinking of? You are comparing fellatio to the US government killing and maiming its own innocent citizens. Or allowing it.
  • skipjack79skipjack79 Posts: 3,250
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    slick1two wrote: »
    People in power have never lied to us? shock horror! To even suggest a thing. I guess our expenses scandal didn't happen? Look how dirty rotten MPs were swindling us. I guess Clinton never had an affair with Miss Lewinsky. I guess Tony Blair didn't lie about Weapons of Mass Destruction which were never found in Iraq but it took us to war. Did I imagine these things and many more, or are these real things that our powers have done not so long ago. How about every broken promise our governments have given us only to break them and do whatever the hell fits their agenda?

    Amazing that you can have so much faith in the authorities. Again, no one is saying that the FBI did this in this case, but to completely dismiss the possibility of foul play is also not a good thing.

    edit: forgot to mention the De Menezes incident. Police fabricated a story, saying he ran when he walked, that he vaulted the ticket barrier at the station, when he used a travel card. Think about it. Blaming people in authority is not such a wrong thing, when you see real live examples of it, you know they are capable.

    Until I'm shown any indication that this was setup by the authorities, I will continue to base my opinion on the evidence at hand.

    There are some who seem determined not to believe this was an Islamic terror attack, and instead desperately want to believe the brothers were caught up in a dastardly plot and would prefer to lay the blame on the Americans themselves.

    Since the bombing, ample evidence of the brothers Islamic radicalisation has emerged, in particular the older brother. Russian authorities alerted the FBI about him in 2011, warning that he had links to radical Islam and to keep an eye on him.

    The most likely motivation behind this random attack on innocent people is religious in nature.

    Ethel_Fred even more bizarrely seems to be suggesting they were trying to "sort their problems" out in a "typically American" fashion. I'm unaware of what problems are resolved by murdering and maiming innocent people.

    I know it's hard for some people to swallow, particularly by those who seem to be in awe & wonder of Islam, but so far the evidence points to this being a terrorist attack. It's pretty bad taste trying to accuse the Americans of doing this to themselves unless there is evidence to backup these claims.
This discussion has been closed.