Why should he? The chemicals they injected him with to kill him were no longer in his body.
The only people to die would be the people with mortal wounds that wouldn't be sustainable without the Blessing propping them up.
Regards
Julian
A lethal injection would most certainly have caused enough 'permanent' damage to be unsustainable beyond the blessing - far beyond a cardiac arrest in fact, probably. We saw him having the correct physical reactions when they 'executed' him - the only thing 'missing' was him actually dying.
Because everything about this series has been made up on the spot without any coherent and consistent thought given to the episodes or their events...?
The whole Charlotte thing seemed a bit pointless. All the other family agents blew themselves up when the time came. I don't know why - it seems quite a sacrifice, when everyone else is immortal. I kinda like her for not doing that, but since she got caught and killed in the end anyway her escape earlier lost its meaning. They could have had Rex run down by a bus instead.
Hmm. I watched the whole thing on the iplayer last night and I don't recall any family agents blowing themselves up. When did this happen?
Because they were stupid and overconfident. So stupid they didn't deserve to rule the world, and it's hard to see how they got as far as they did. There was never any need to bring the good guys directly to the locations where the bad guys were most vulnerable.
They had reason to be confident though. They failed to think of the possibility of Rex being full of Jack's blood, but that was such a hugely unlikely contrivance that not thinking of it doesn't make them stupid.
His lack of options was a consequence of poor planning. But in fact he had enough guards there to simply grab Rex and prevent him releasing his blood. Simply cutting the communications link would have been a good idea - the good guy's trick only worked if the Blessing saw mortal blood at both its ends simultaneously, so Jack and Rex needed to coordinate, and it was foolish to provide them with a radio link which facilitated that. Also foolish to let Jack and Gwen use it to encourage Rex to let Esther die. As so often in this series, the plot relies on the characters being stupid.
OK, I didn't think of those options, so I guess they didn't either.
I am going to clutch at straws and think that the lovely Esther wasn't really dead. None of them seemed upset at the funeral, even the little kids, who just stared straight ahead.
I am going to clutch at straws and think that the lovely Esther wasn't really dead. None of them seemed upset at the funeral, even the little kids, who just stared straight ahead.
Esther for next Doctor's Assistant please!
That would depend on whether it's wet-and-weepy Esther or not, in which case we'd be back to 'Help me, Doctor! What's happening?'.
If it was occasionally strong-and-resourceful Esther it would be just like any other recent companion.
No thanks:)
Hmm. I watched the whole thing on the iplayer last night and I don't recall any family agents blowing themselves up. When did this happen?
The CIA chief (who I think of as "Newman") blew himself up in the car when captured. The soldier in the van with the blood blew himself up to destroy the blood. Charlotte also had a bomb. It seems like a standard MO for the families, that every agent should have a bomb to blow themselves up with.
They had reason to be confident though. They failed to think of the possibility of Rex being full of Jack's blood, but that was such a hugely unlikely contrivance that not thinking of it doesn't make them stupid.
It will always be stupid to bring your worst enemy into the most vulnerable heart of your lair and explain to them exactly how to destroy it.
OK, I didn't think of those options, so I guess they didn't either.
I like watching smart, intelligent characters and smart, intelligent drama. It doesn't bother me if you weren't that quick; after all, the writers had months to think through the episode so they didn't need to be quick either. It does bother me when someone who is planning to take over the world, and has been working for generations to that end, isn't smart or intelligent.
Personally, I didn't see much signs of humanity in him. To me, he was a pantomime; a charicature -- 100% monster.
The actor said that Danes had been changed - damaged - by prison, and it had turned him into a survivor. I could see that at times. I could see the humanity in him, trapped in his situation. When he asked for a prostitute, I didn't see that as the action of a monster, but as someone seeking a way out. He was always surfing the wave and looking for an escape. For a while he thought it might involve Jilly, but she betrayed him by not warning him about Category 0. Then he managed to hook up with Torchwood.
Arguably, what destroyed him was looking into the Blessing. I would take his dying words in that context. That said, they were consistent with his attitude earlier ("She should have run faster") and it's hard to tell how much was bravado. At the end he chose to destroy himself and bury the Blessing, and it wasn't entirely a selfish act because he also chose to let Gwen, Jack and Jilly escape.
For me the weakest point in his character is when he arrived in Gwen's home and picked up her baby. Why would he do that? I don't think he was lusting after it. It seems he was trying to provoke exactly the reaction from Gwen he got. He wanted to present himself to her as a monster. Why? It makes no sense to me. I think it was just bad writing; the writers didn't care about Danes as a person and just wanted him to be a monster for Gwen there.
Put that aside, and I see him struggling with who he is, alternately embracing and rejecting it.
A lethal injection would most certainly have caused enough 'permanent' damage to be unsustainable beyond the blessing - far beyond a cardiac arrest in fact, probably. We saw him having the correct physical reactions when they 'executed' him - the only thing 'missing' was him actually dying.
How so?
Lethal injection causes paralysis of the respiratory system and increased potassium to stop the heart. Except that neither of these things killed him. Once it wears off the heart is beating again and he's breathing again.
You could argue that lack of oxygen would have killed too many brain cells but clearly that didn't happen or we would have seen evidence of it from the start.
So, as soon as these chemicals have left his system there is no reason why his heart should suddenly stop or his lungs should suddenly stop working when the Miracle ends.
The CIA chief (who I think of as "Newman") blew himself up in the car when captured. The soldier in the van with the blood blew himself up to destroy the blood. Charlotte also had a bomb. It seems like a standard MO for the families, that every agent should have a bomb to blow themselves up with.
There are also the agents who didn't blow themselves up, such as the guy who met Jilly in the park.
CIA man blew himself up when he was found out, his bomb wasn't big enough to kill everyone who found out in the house,at least not in miracle times, enough to rip them apart, he knew the family would get to him and make things worse for him than the CIA could, or he'd be forced to reveal family information.
Argentinian soldier blew himself up because he knew what the blood could do, so sacrificed himself for the family/blessings good.
Charlotte wasn't yet found out, she knew the bomb would kill those in that room beyond any chance of recovery even in miracle times. And she'd get off with her place in the CIA in tact (as we saw since she was at the funeral and there was no hint of suspicion around her) as you said other agents have blown themselves up, so plausible CIA thought the bomber was IN the room when bomb exploded, not out with as Charlotte was.
She had no reason to kill herself when the only people who were to find out her secret were in the same room and could be disposed off easily.
Loved the final episode, I just want to know what Phase 2 would have been and what Plan B is.
The Uk ratings compared to that of COE where not amazing. 2 million loss overall. Starz ratings held up. Now i don't think any of this includes BBC iplayer/ starz on demand etc so they might be fine.
It really is 50/50 if its get renewed. I hope it does I enjoyed it but overall 2 million fans stopped/ did not watch for what ever reason.
I myself really want something different as much as I liked it. Torchwood was about jack and is immortality fighting aliens and the amazing cast I want that torchwood back.
I'd like that Torchwood back but think it is unrealistic to hope for.
I hated the partnership idea, but could see the big potential to make TW bigger and better, and I loved the whole concept of "miracle day". Poorly done over all in my view. It could have worked so well, such a shame.
There are also the agents who didn't blow themselves up, such as the guy who met Jilly in the park.
Exactly. Note that the CIA guy was hired help. The families seem to look out for their own. Slightly unrealistic as suicide bombers are usually idealists, not hired guns, but I can suspend my disbelief on that one, as disposable henchmen are something of a TV trope. Anyway, generals the world over retreat from the front while telling their men to hold the line.
Lethal injection causes paralysis of the respiratory system and increased potassium to stop the heart. Except that neither of these things killed him. Once it wears off the heart is beating again and he's breathing again.
You could argue that lack of oxygen would have killed too many brain cells but clearly that didn't happen or we would have seen evidence of it from the start.
So, as soon as these chemicals have left his system there is no reason why his heart should suddenly stop or his lungs should suddenly stop working when the Miracle ends.
If he had been given the injection in episode 5 or later, he'd be comatose. It was only in the first few episodes that people were able to do things like walk around with a hole in their heart or a broken neck, move their eyes, mouths and fingers after being caught in an explosion etc.
As has been said -- the series as a whole was chronically inconsistent with how it handled the consequences of the miracle.
If he had been given the injection in episode 5 or later, he'd be comatose. It was only in the first few episodes that people were able to do things like walk around with a hole in their heart or a broken neck, move their eyes, mouths and fingers after being caught in an explosion etc.
As has been said -- the series as a whole was chronically inconsistent with how it handled the consequences of the miracle.
Maybe it wasn't inconsistency. Maybe the blessing just couldn't keep the effect going at such efficiency as time wore on.
There are also the agents who didn't blow themselves up, such as the guy who met Jilly in the park.
He didn't get caught. They don't just blow themselves up randomly!
Argentinian soldier blew himself up because he knew what the blood could do, so sacrificed himself for the family/blessings good.
We don't know what his personal motivation was. Or why he didn't wait 60 seconds until Rex was in the van too.
I suspect the Rex thing was because he was stupid, or at least narrowly focussed on the blood to the exclusion of all else. Which is understandable, although I'd like to think I'd want to make my own suicide count for as much as possible. In the CIA boss's case, it was implied he killed himself to save his (real) family from retribution.
Charlotte wasn't yet found out, she knew the bomb would kill those in that room beyond any chance of recovery even in miracle times.
No, she didn't. The bomb might have been found and disposed of without her their to guard it. Once the trace went through, they'd know she was the mole, so would be suspicious of the bag she left. The success of her ploy depended on the exact timing, which she couldn't control. She took a risk, which happened to pan out. The guy in the van probably could have taken a risk too, but chose to be certain.
And she'd get off with her place in the CIA in tact (as we saw since she was at the funeral and there was no hint of suspicion around her)
Except we know she did get caught, immediately after the funeral. She may have been half-expecting it, given her reactions. Her bomb was not enough. If Miracle Day hadn't ended, she would have survived Rex shooting at her, and probably could have been interrogated.
A lethal injection would most certainly have caused enough 'permanent' damage to be unsustainable beyond the blessing.
Not true, I'm afraid.
In the US, they use three chemicals in succession - all of which are actually standard pharmaceutical products.
The first (sodium thiopental) - is a standard barbituate used as an anaethstic. The second (pancuronium bromide) is a muscle relaxant that stops the person's diaphragm and prevents them from breathing and the last (potassium chloride) stops the heart.
All of those are used in regular surgey - hearts are stopped during surgery, for example. Even the doses used are not significantly different to those used in hospitals during surgery. They are only fatal because there is no attempt to restart the heart after an execution.
In fact, the sodium thiopental is deliberately inject rapidly as this causes unconciousness within around 30 seconds. However, the "patient" may regain concoiusness within a few minutes - it wears off that quickly - so it is common for there to be a secondary anaesthetic in the form of gas.
Given that Danes didn't die - and that happened before anyone knew about the Miracle Day effect on the entire planet, they would have taken him to the prison's hospital where he would have received the same treatment as someone coming out of surgery. He would have recovered in the same way that patients recover from heart surgery every day and the chemicals used in the "operation" would not have caused any damage.
I'm convinced Esther faked her death to get away from the CIA since she would have been arrested. Esther should be waiting for them back in the Wales.
I was thinking along the same lines!
I have only just been able to watch the final episode and thought it was a cracker! I didn't foresee Rex coming back to life like that though, because I thought they were going to fake his death in some other way so he could be with Esther - and then both of them would become part of the new undercover Torchwood - along with the reluctant Rhys of course!
I love that Lauren Ambrose as Jilly Kitzinger could turn up again some day as the chief female baddie, but I do hope we've seen the last of John de Lancie (Allen Shapiro).
I have only just been able to watch the final episode and thought it was a cracker! I didn't foresee Rex coming back to life like that though, because I thought they were going to fake his death in some other way so he could be with Esther - and then both of them would become part of the new undercover Torchwood - along with the reluctant Rhys of course!
I love that Lauren Ambrose as Jilly Kitzinger could turn up again some day as the chief female baddie, but I do hope we've seen the last of John de Lancie (Allen Shapiro).
Stonking twist!
It would good if was i thought she was great. However judging by Gwen's comment she is in fact dead. She said on the lines why would the blessing not save Esther. Now this comment would of been understandable if there loads of CIA agents around but it was just the group. Making comment pointless if she was alive.
It's interesting that 7 days after the broadcast of the Torchwood series 4 finale, discussion about it stops (in the post above). I think that sums it up.
Personally i didn't watch any of this series as I was put off by the previous one.
It's interesting that 7 days after the broadcast of the Torchwood series 4 finale, discussion about it stops (in the post above). I think that sums it up. Personally i didn't watch any of this series as I was put off by the previous one.
Like many other people I suspect, I made a point of sticking with this series simply because I thought that "Children of Earth" was so good, but to each his own of course!
Many were disappointed this time I feel, as this was a very different animal.
I still hope it did well enough to get another outing though, but please please don't make it so long drawn out next time (it'll be cheaper if it's shorter too!)
With a good idea, a good script, and with no need to spend time completely introducing all the characters next time, it could and should make another cracking five parter like CoE.
Comments
A lethal injection would most certainly have caused enough 'permanent' damage to be unsustainable beyond the blessing - far beyond a cardiac arrest in fact, probably. We saw him having the correct physical reactions when they 'executed' him - the only thing 'missing' was him actually dying.
Hmm. I watched the whole thing on the iplayer last night and I don't recall any family agents blowing themselves up. When did this happen?
They had reason to be confident though. They failed to think of the possibility of Rex being full of Jack's blood, but that was such a hugely unlikely contrivance that not thinking of it doesn't make them stupid.
OK, I didn't think of those options, so I guess they didn't either.
Esther for next Doctor's Assistant please!
That would depend on whether it's wet-and-weepy Esther or not, in which case we'd be back to 'Help me, Doctor! What's happening?'.
If it was occasionally strong-and-resourceful Esther it would be just like any other recent companion.
No thanks:)
It will always be stupid to bring your worst enemy into the most vulnerable heart of your lair and explain to them exactly how to destroy it.
I like watching smart, intelligent characters and smart, intelligent drama. It doesn't bother me if you weren't that quick; after all, the writers had months to think through the episode so they didn't need to be quick either. It does bother me when someone who is planning to take over the world, and has been working for generations to that end, isn't smart or intelligent.
The actor said that Danes had been changed - damaged - by prison, and it had turned him into a survivor. I could see that at times. I could see the humanity in him, trapped in his situation. When he asked for a prostitute, I didn't see that as the action of a monster, but as someone seeking a way out. He was always surfing the wave and looking for an escape. For a while he thought it might involve Jilly, but she betrayed him by not warning him about Category 0. Then he managed to hook up with Torchwood.
Arguably, what destroyed him was looking into the Blessing. I would take his dying words in that context. That said, they were consistent with his attitude earlier ("She should have run faster") and it's hard to tell how much was bravado. At the end he chose to destroy himself and bury the Blessing, and it wasn't entirely a selfish act because he also chose to let Gwen, Jack and Jilly escape.
For me the weakest point in his character is when he arrived in Gwen's home and picked up her baby. Why would he do that? I don't think he was lusting after it. It seems he was trying to provoke exactly the reaction from Gwen he got. He wanted to present himself to her as a monster. Why? It makes no sense to me. I think it was just bad writing; the writers didn't care about Danes as a person and just wanted him to be a monster for Gwen there.
Put that aside, and I see him struggling with who he is, alternately embracing and rejecting it.
How so?
Lethal injection causes paralysis of the respiratory system and increased potassium to stop the heart. Except that neither of these things killed him. Once it wears off the heart is beating again and he's breathing again.
You could argue that lack of oxygen would have killed too many brain cells but clearly that didn't happen or we would have seen evidence of it from the start.
So, as soon as these chemicals have left his system there is no reason why his heart should suddenly stop or his lungs should suddenly stop working when the Miracle ends.
Regards
Julian
There are also the agents who didn't blow themselves up, such as the guy who met Jilly in the park.
CIA man blew himself up when he was found out, his bomb wasn't big enough to kill everyone who found out in the house,at least not in miracle times, enough to rip them apart, he knew the family would get to him and make things worse for him than the CIA could, or he'd be forced to reveal family information.
Argentinian soldier blew himself up because he knew what the blood could do, so sacrificed himself for the family/blessings good.
Charlotte wasn't yet found out, she knew the bomb would kill those in that room beyond any chance of recovery even in miracle times. And she'd get off with her place in the CIA in tact (as we saw since she was at the funeral and there was no hint of suspicion around her) as you said other agents have blown themselves up, so plausible CIA thought the bomber was IN the room when bomb exploded, not out with as Charlotte was.
She had no reason to kill herself when the only people who were to find out her secret were in the same room and could be disposed off easily.
Loved the final episode, I just want to know what Phase 2 would have been and what Plan B is.
Has this been renewed?
I presume he was also working for the familes or one of its minions.
No it has not been renewed yet.
The Uk ratings compared to that of COE where not amazing. 2 million loss overall. Starz ratings held up. Now i don't think any of this includes BBC iplayer/ starz on demand etc so they might be fine.
It really is 50/50 if its get renewed. I hope it does I enjoyed it but overall 2 million fans stopped/ did not watch for what ever reason.
I myself really want something different as much as I liked it. Torchwood was about jack and is immortality fighting aliens and the amazing cast I want that torchwood back.
I hated the partnership idea, but could see the big potential to make TW bigger and better, and I loved the whole concept of "miracle day". Poorly done over all in my view. It could have worked so well, such a shame.
That's another TV trope common enough to be filed under "willing suspension of disbelief".
As has been said -- the series as a whole was chronically inconsistent with how it handled the consequences of the miracle.
Maybe it wasn't inconsistency. Maybe the blessing just couldn't keep the effect going at such efficiency as time wore on.
We don't know what his personal motivation was. Or why he didn't wait 60 seconds until Rex was in the van too.
I suspect the Rex thing was because he was stupid, or at least narrowly focussed on the blood to the exclusion of all else. Which is understandable, although I'd like to think I'd want to make my own suicide count for as much as possible. In the CIA boss's case, it was implied he killed himself to save his (real) family from retribution.
No, she didn't. The bomb might have been found and disposed of without her their to guard it. Once the trace went through, they'd know she was the mole, so would be suspicious of the bag she left. The success of her ploy depended on the exact timing, which she couldn't control. She took a risk, which happened to pan out. The guy in the van probably could have taken a risk too, but chose to be certain.
Except we know she did get caught, immediately after the funeral. She may have been half-expecting it, given her reactions. Her bomb was not enough. If Miracle Day hadn't ended, she would have survived Rex shooting at her, and probably could have been interrogated.
Not true, I'm afraid.
In the US, they use three chemicals in succession - all of which are actually standard pharmaceutical products.
The first (sodium thiopental) - is a standard barbituate used as an anaethstic. The second (pancuronium bromide) is a muscle relaxant that stops the person's diaphragm and prevents them from breathing and the last (potassium chloride) stops the heart.
All of those are used in regular surgey - hearts are stopped during surgery, for example. Even the doses used are not significantly different to those used in hospitals during surgery. They are only fatal because there is no attempt to restart the heart after an execution.
In fact, the sodium thiopental is deliberately inject rapidly as this causes unconciousness within around 30 seconds. However, the "patient" may regain concoiusness within a few minutes - it wears off that quickly - so it is common for there to be a secondary anaesthetic in the form of gas.
Given that Danes didn't die - and that happened before anyone knew about the Miracle Day effect on the entire planet, they would have taken him to the prison's hospital where he would have received the same treatment as someone coming out of surgery. He would have recovered in the same way that patients recover from heart surgery every day and the chemicals used in the "operation" would not have caused any damage.
I have only just been able to watch the final episode and thought it was a cracker! I didn't foresee Rex coming back to life like that though, because I thought they were going to fake his death in some other way so he could be with Esther - and then both of them would become part of the new undercover Torchwood - along with the reluctant Rhys of course!
I love that Lauren Ambrose as Jilly Kitzinger could turn up again some day as the chief female baddie, but I do hope we've seen the last of John de Lancie (Allen Shapiro).
Stonking twist!
It would good if was i thought she was great. However judging by Gwen's comment she is in fact dead. She said on the lines why would the blessing not save Esther. Now this comment would of been understandable if there loads of CIA agents around but it was just the group. Making comment pointless if she was alive.
Personally i didn't watch any of this series as I was put off by the previous one.
Many were disappointed this time I feel, as this was a very different animal.
I still hope it did well enough to get another outing though, but please please don't make it so long drawn out next time (it'll be cheaper if it's shorter too!)
With a good idea, a good script, and with no need to spend time completely introducing all the characters next time, it could and should make another cracking five parter like CoE.