Doc Martin (Part 13 — Spoilers)

1101102104106107123

Comments

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 366
    Forum Member
    When Martin brought Louisa the spreadsheet of expected expenditures and post-dated checks, on what, do you think, was he basing his calculations? Do you think that Louisa intended to take Martin's money on a regular basis or was her farewell to him in the schoolyard meant also as a breach in the relationship?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 399
    Forum Member
    bookfan2 wrote: »
    When Martin brought Louisa the spreadsheet of expected expenditures and post-dated checks, on what, do you think, was he basing his calculations? Do you think that Louisa intended to take Martin's money on a regular basis or was her farewell to him in the schoolyard meant also as a breach in the relationship?

    Hi all,
    Louisa was obviously annoyed with him when she found out it was a spreadsheet with post-dated checks. I thought she held it together pretty good even after his remark about studies showing something about bonding, etc. Martin was such a jerk in that scene. I have no idea on what he was basing his calculations; some medical journal article perhaps? That's all he read anyway. I don't think she would have used the checks at all. Louisa was a very independent woman and very proud that she had managed thus far to go it alone. I think the farewell in the schoolyard was meant to be THE END of the relationship. :cry:
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 292
    Forum Member
    bookfan2 wrote: »
    When Martin brought Louisa the spreadsheet of expected expenditures and post-dated checks, on what, do you think, was he basing his calculations? Do you think that Louisa intended to take Martin's money on a regular basis or was her farewell to him in the schoolyard meant also as a breach in the relationship?

    The cost of raising a child to the age of 18 is approximately 110 thousand pounds (Martin, I'm sure would have read the social science research bulletin where such information is published), divide by 18, divide by 12 so it's in monthly installments, index by 3% each year to allow for inflation. Add lump sum for public schooling supplement. Add supplement for contribution to post secondary education endowment. Some calculation like that?

    OK, I realise this thesis may be controversial, but to my mind there's no doubt Louisa would have cashed those cheques Martin left her. She's a practically minded girl -- see how she had no compunction about ingratiating herself with the old codger with the kipper stuck behind his stove so that she could ask to rent his cottage when she needed to. She's also quite ambitious in her work -- not for her to remain just a teacher when the head's considerably higher salary is there for the asking. She's the one who thinks Roger Fenn's cancer through to its financial implications, and Holly's answer "150 thousand plus dividends" I take as prompted by a question Louisa has asked: "So how much does a head teacher make in the private sector then?" When Louisa thinks she is going to be raising a child on her own she institutes certain economies (not going the private route in terms of health care ("a little expensive, that," as she comments to one of her co-workers), bargaining with Al in order to get his plumbing services at a price she can afford, and choosing the taxi operator who is "the best and cheaper than the rest"). It's not a huge point in her character sketch, but I think Louisa is pretty consistently portrayed as being both aware of money and able to look after herself in terms of those practicalities. Like both her parents I think she is concerned about money, but is basically more honest than they are in her means of getting it. That practical streak in Louisa is one of the reasons I initially thought she was a Capricorn, though I've since been persuaded she's a Pisces.

    Yes, Louisa is annoyed with Martin when he keeps obviating the need for a conversation around feelings by saying "there are practicalities that need to be discussed." She's furious when he drops that spreadsheet on her instead of a more feeling gift which would acknowledge what they had meant to one another and the fact that they would always be connected through this child -- it feels to her at that moment like he's washing his hands. She declares to Edith that she has returned "to her village to have her baby on her own." And she says to Martin (before breaking into tears that totally belie what she's just said) "the thing I will never need from you is help of any kind." Clearly it is her ideal to be independent, and I think that would last about a month. Then one night as she was looking over her finances with some alarm -- the cost of nappies, the cost of child care, the cost of an extra mouth to feed -- she would open that envelope, and see the cheques for what they were, Martin's way of taking responsibility for a child who was biological half his after all, and of being involved when no more personal, emotional means of involvement was left open to him. She would be grateful, and she would take the first month's cheque to the bank next morning.

    Of the two of them I see Louisa as having more "financial nous" than Martin. It's good that Martin has money, because he doesn't have to think about it too much. The fact that he can give 200-300 thousand pounds of it away to Joan without thinking too much about it, means that for Martin, money is not the most important thing. He is quite niggardly in the giving of tips (denying the mover a tip in S1E1, refusing to contribute to the water control board man's Christmas fund in S1E3, greeting the Salvation Army man with the immediate refusal to give a donation, refusing to help Bert out by taking him up on his offer to name the restaurant for 200 pounds, refusing to donate to Mrs. Dingley's cat shelter -- though he does pull out that bill to give to Penhale's African "kiddies" and in S1E3, he does give Al a job, to support his vocational ambitions). But I think this tight-fistedness when it comes to giving tips and donations is just a financial expression of what he says to Louisa in S2E2 "don't expect any favours though." Martin believes that people who want his money should have done something to earn it. In a sense, it's not love of money that prevents him from giving, but his principles around work-ethic. Because he has money he is able to keep himself in the quality items which enhance his life: his Lexus, his tailored suits, his antique home decor and his morning espresso, but I think he thinks very little about money, whereas I think Louisa dwells on it quite a bit (not surprising considering that she had one of those fathers who was chronically in debt due to gambling, but who lived in the hope of the next big chance).

    One of my friends used to say: "you know the world of television isn't real because you never see anyone going to get money from the hole in the wall." What I love about Doc Martin is the realism that has Al going at least once to the ATM to get money, and you have this sense throughout the series of the characters living in real time in terms of what's going on financially in Cornwall and in Britain. . .
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 292
    Forum Member
    I just watched Cold Comfort Farm for the first time last night. It's very enjoyable, and what an amazing transformation Eileen Atkins has undergone from her character in that movie to her appearance as Aunt Ruth. I literally didn't know her right away, which I always take to be the hallmark of an outstanding character actress. I now also understand NewPark's comment to me from a couple of pages ago re: my Christopher Ellingham hypothesis: "I can't help but think 'Cold Comfort Farm' and 'something nasty in the woodshed.'" That was actually very funny -- sorry I'm having the world's most belated chuckle.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 366
    Forum Member
    The fact that he can give 200-300 thousand pounds of it away to Joan without thinking too much about it, means that for Martin, money is not the most important thing. He is quite niggardly in the giving of tips (denying the mover a tip in S1E1, refusing to contribute to the water control board man's Christmas fund in S1E3, greeting the Salvation Army man with the immediate refusal to give a donation, refusing to help Bert out by taking him up on his offer to name the restaurant for 200 pounds, refusing to donate to Mrs. Dingley's cat shelter -- though he does pull out that bill to give to Penhale's African "kiddies" and in S1E3, he does give Al a job, to support his vocational ambitions). But I think this tight-fistedness when it comes to giving tips and donations is just a financial expression of what he says to Louisa in S2E2 "don't expect any favours though." Martin believes that people who want his money should have done something to earn it. In a sense, it's not love of money that prevents him from giving, but his principles around work-ethic. Because he has money he is able to keep himself in the quality items which enhance his life: his Lexus, his tailored suits, his antique home decor and his morning espresso, but I think he thinks very little about money, whereas I think Louisa dwells on it quite a bit (not surprising considering that she had one of those fathers who was chronically in debt due to gambling, but who lived in the hope of the next big chance).

    I sure hope that the private Martin Ellingham is more generous than the one you described above, which you are right, is what we see on screen :D

    I hadn't quite thought of him that way -- but it is in keeping with the reference he gave to Pauline (which I'm still not convinced was anything but a reflection of his anger at the situation he was in and certainly not valid). In any case, my point is that Martin may have been emotionally deprived as a youngster, but certainly lived a life of privilege financially. I doubt he came out of university and medical school in debt.

    It is one of the problems he faces in PW. He doesn't have an understanding of the financial problems facing many of his patients and how that impacts on daily life. So his demand that a woman take off from work when her child has, what he believes is, impetigo, is met with incredulity because she can't afford to lose a day's pay. Louisa understood the economic reality of many of her students' families -- Martin does not.

    So when Martin gets on a high horse about not tipping or giving to a Christmas fund, he can justify it by insisting on a certain work ethic -- but it doesn't reflect well on him.

    Or I could just hope that privately, Martin Ellingham writes cheques to many different charities -- insisting on anonymity of course :)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,389
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    bookfan2 wrote: »

    So when Martin gets on a high horse about not tipping or giving to a Christmas fund, he can justify it by insisting on a certain work ethic -- but it doesn't reflect well on him.

    Or I could just hope that privately, Martin Ellingham writes cheques to many different charities -- insisting on anonymity of course :)

    I don't want to get too off track here but there is a different cultural ethic about tipping in USA and Canada than there is in the UK. They generally don't tip in the UK except for restaurants and maybe taxis (and in those cases far, far less than some Americans). Some are trying to spread this practice around the world. A lot of people are resisting this. So if someone asked DM for a tip then I wouldn't be surprised if he reacted negatively.

    Now donating is a different thing entirely...:):):)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 292
    Forum Member
    bookfan2 wrote: »
    It is one of the problems he faces in PW. He doesn't have an understanding of the financial problems facing many of his patients and how that impacts on daily life. So his demand that a woman take off from work when her child has, what he believes is, impetigo, is met with incredulity because she can't afford to lose a day's pay. Louisa understood the economic reality of many of her students' families -- Martin does not.

    I think you're exactly right here. On a number of occasions -- Eddie Rix, the Baker, Mick the restauranteur, Eleanor's fish supplier -- Martin tells people "it's a medical necessity" to take time off work, and he is totally unsympathic toward them when they reply that it is an "economic necessity" for them to go on working. His financial parsimony, as you say goes together with his parsimony in other respects -- the giving of praise, his monosyllabic style of speech and terse style of writing. On a number of occasions Martin is also insistent that people pay for the damage they do, presenting the Oakwoods with an estimate for the paintwork on his car, and saying to Aunt Joan that "Mrs. McLynne was at fault, Mrs. McLynne must pay." Again, though, I think this is not so much about the money as about a matter of principle: people ought to earn what they get, and people must take responsibility for the damage they do. There is very litttle grace in Martin's day-to-day economics.

    That's what makes the grace of his occasional grand financial gestures all the more breathtaking. I have rarely esteemed Martin so much as in that moment when he told his father that he would pay Joan's debt and that Joan wasn't even to know what he had done for her. The spreadsheet he gives to Louisa may look to us (and to her) like a rather cold-hearted "paying off" of a mistress whom he has inconvenienced, which in the traditional version of that script usually comes together with the expectation that the mistress stay out his life and inconvenience him no more. But Martin's post-dated cheques should not be seen in that light. It is another financial gesture of pure grace (paying up with no expectation of any return or quid pro quo) -- breathtaking, when you consider that from Martin's point of view, he is being denied an ongoing role in this child's life, still he pays, rather than paying to get out of having an ongoing inconvenience. That is disinterested love -- the most altruistic kind.

    There is another example from S1E3 of Martin being really quite breathtakingly gracious, and the point is made using money. In that episode he learns that Al has these ambitions to study computer repair. He shuts down Bert's side business (chateau ste marie) which was meant to provide for Al's higher education. In most cases we would expect Martin to be oblivious to the financial fall-out from his health-based demand. But what does Martin do? He creates a paid position for Al at the surgery as regular IT consultant. Al is not agressive in asking Martin for remuneration when Martin asks him to look at the computer in the surgery. Bert of course is, but Martin is way ahead of Bert. In fact I am not even sure that Martin has not messed up the computer on purpose in order to make more invoiceable work for Al. Martin seems to think he has "made the network happy" the night before, and Elaine confirms that the computer was working fine the previous day. So are we supposed to infer that Martin just isn't as competent in sorting out computer problems as he likes to think? Or (which would be the more interesting alternative) are we supposed to infer that the computer was working fine, but that Martin has sabotaged it so that he can pay Al for fixing it? To me this manner of charitable giving -- locally, secretly and in exchange for genuine work rendered -- would be much more in keeping with Martin's character than the anonymous writing of large cheques to far off charitable organisations. Martin is not generous, as a rule, with strangers, but his eagerness to help out financially is a great expression of his fealty toward family (eg. Aunt Joan, and then toward his new family: Louisa and JH). I love it that Al becomes "adopted" into Martin's family in this sense. Martin does seem to have a rather avuncular interest in Al, which is quite sweet, while at the same time he preserves Al's dignity, insisting, more than Al's father does, that Al be allowed to regard himself as a man in this exchange. By S5 we don't see as much of this Martin/Al dynamic, which is a pity, but in a way Aunt Ruth has stepped in to take it over. She is the financial benefactor now, and the one able to give Al a certain manly dignity through employment.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 292
    Forum Member
    cc.cookie wrote: »
    I don't want to get too off track here but there is a different cultural ethic about tipping in USA and Canada than there is in the UK. They generally don't tip in the UK except for restaurants and maybe taxis (and in those cases far, far less than some Americans). Some are trying to spread this practice around the world. A lot of people are resisting this. So if someone asked DM for a tip then I wouldn't be surprised if he reacted negatively.

    Now donating is a different thing entirely...:):):)

    Historically I think tipping was not expected in the UK, but it's becoming more and more the norm. Now in the German version of S1E1 I noticed that the moving guy doesn't stand there awaiting a tip from Doktor Martin, but stands there awaiting an invitation to come in and have a drink (which the Doktor of course refuses). Given that very few changes were made between the English and the German version of that episode, it's interesting that that was an area where a dynamic equivalent was thought necessary. I guess in Germany tipping would not be expected in that instance, but the offer of a drink would be.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 292
    Forum Member
    If one of the triggers for Martin's panic attacks is "the smell of cauterised flesh" I wonder why he doesn't have that reaction at the smell of the burning badger. He is disgusted by the smell, clearly, but it is not a panicky reaction. Maybe there's a lot of burning hair smell together with the burning flesh. I love it that in several episodes, that one, and "blood is thicker" and "aromatherapy" and the one where "Fishy Finbar" is diagnosed, we get the sense of what things in Portwenn smell like. Smell is a sense which is appealed to more in this show than in many and it adds to the viewers' sense that we are really there, or that that world is fully analogous to ours. Martin for one seems to have a particularly keen olfactory sense, and we get the benefit of the many smells that (and people who) get up his nose.
  • NewParkNewPark Posts: 3,537
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    I think you're exactly right here. On a number of occasions -- Eddie Rix, the Baker, Mick the restauranteur, Eleanor's fish supplier -- Martin tells people "it's a medical necessity" to take time off work, and he is totally unsympathic toward them when they reply that it is an "economic necessity" for them to go on working. His financial parsimony, as you say goes together with his parsimony in other respects -- the giving of praise, his monosyllabic style of speech and terse style of writing. On a number of occasions Martin is also insistent that people pay for the damage they do, presenting the Oakwoods with an estimate for the paintwork on his car, and saying to Aunt Joan that "Mrs. McLynne was at fault, Mrs. McLynne must pay." Again, though, I think this is not so much about the money as about a matter of principle: people ought to earn what they get, and people must take responsibility for the damage they do. There is very litttle grace in Martin's day-to-day economics.

    That's what makes the grace of his occasional grand financial gestures all the more breathtaking. I have rarely esteemed Martin so much as in that moment when he told his father that he would pay Joan's debt and that Joan wasn't even to know what he had done for her. The spreadsheet he gives to Louisa may look to us (and to her) like a rather cold-hearted "paying off" of a mistress whom he has inconvenienced, which in the traditional version of that script usually comes together with the expectation that the mistress stay out his life and inconvenience him no more. But Martin's post-dated cheques should not be seen in that light. It is another financial gesture of pure grace (paying up with no expectation of any return or quid pro quo) -- breathtaking, when you consider that from Martin's point of view, he is being denied an ongoing role in this child's life, still he pays, rather than paying to get out of having an ongoing inconvenience. That is disinterested love -- the most altruistic kind.

    There is another example from S1E3 of Martin being really quite breathtakingly gracious, and the point is made using money. In that episode he learns that Al has these ambitions to study computer repair. He shuts down Bert's side business (chateau ste marie) which was meant to provide for Al's higher education. In most cases we would expect Martin to be oblivious to the financial fall-out from his health-based demand. But what does Martin do? He creates a paid position for Al at the surgery as regular IT consultant. Al is not agressive in asking Martin for remuneration when Martin asks him to look at the computer in the surgery. Bert of course is, but Martin is way ahead of Bert. In fact I am not even sure that Martin has not messed up the computer on purpose in order to make more invoiceable work for Al. Martin seems to think he has "made the network happy" the night before, and Elaine confirms that the computer was working fine the previous day. So are we supposed to infer that Martin just isn't as competent in sorting out computer problems as he likes to think? Or (which would be the more interesting alternative) are we supposed to infer that the computer was working fine, but that Martin has sabotaged it so that he can pay Al for fixing it? To me this manner of charitable giving -- locally, secretly and in exchange for genuine work rendered -- would be much more in keeping with Martin's character than the anonymous writing of large cheques to far off charitable organisations. Martin is not generous, as a rule, with strangers, but his eagerness to help out financially is a great expression of his fealty toward family (eg. Aunt Joan, and then toward his new family: Louisa and JH). I love it that Al becomes "adopted" into Martin's family in this sense. Martin does seem to have a rather avuncular interest in Al, which is quite sweet, while at the same time he preserves Al's dignity, insisting, more than Al's father does, that Al be allowed to regard himself as a man in this exchange. By S5 we don't see as much of this Martin/Al dynamic, which is a pity, but in a way Aunt Ruth has stepped in to take it over. She is the financial benefactor now, and the one able to give Al a certain manly dignity through employment.

    I think we can add to the list of his parsimony in small gestures the obvious difficulty he has giving things to Louisa. I'm thinking of the ring dropped in mashed potatoes, and the flowers tossed on the table with the comment to the effect that they were just lying around the office anyway. Also, the weirdly inappropriate birthday card. (Although he seemed rather proud of that, as of the nutritious yams.) I wonder what that's about -- discomfort with romantic conventions, perhaps? But maybe at this point, he's still hiding from his romantic feelings.

    About the gift of the post-dated checks: it may have been disinterested love, but I also feel that Martin is a person of rather strong old-school propriety, as you have noted elsewhere, and he would certainly feel morally compelled to contribute financially in this way. Although I do think he chose this particular way of doing it as a sign that he accepted that their relationship was at an end. I think Louisa took it that way. Such a sad scene.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 392
    Forum Member
    WHOOPS! MC showed up on "Daybreak", this morning. I just caught it on the ITV Player -- talked about "A Mother's Son", DM (didn't entirely commit to ending it with S6' "Never say never!"), his trip to Kenya and the Buckham Fair.

    His eyes looked VERY blue against his bright peacock blue shirt, messy hair (yum!), too.

    Might it show up on YouTube, soon??
  • mmDerdekeammDerdekea Posts: 1,719
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Portwenn59 wrote: »
    Hi all,
    Louisa was obviously annoyed with him when she found out it was a spreadsheet with post-dated checks. I thought she held it together pretty good even after his remark about studies showing something about bonding, etc. Martin was such a jerk in that scene. I have no idea on what he was basing his calculations; some medical journal article perhaps? That's all he read anyway. I don't think she would have used the checks at all. Louisa was a very independent woman and very proud that she had managed thus far to go it alone. I think the farewell in the schoolyard was meant to be THE END of the relationship. :cry:

    I'm glad poorrichard has done some great commenting on this line of thought. It's funny how one scene can have viewers react in such different ways.

    I'm of the view that LG is as much a problem in S4 as DM with her decisions, actions and inability to communicate what she feels, either. In fact, I think she started the whole mess!

    Like poorrichard, I thought DM was being decent, responsible and caring to give the checks when he was essentially being (in his mind) cut out of LG's life, and the life of his child, and internally we know how desperate DM was to have wife and child, people to love, all throughout his life.

    We've discussed before poorrichard came on board the Forum how DM is not that "into" money, outside of having a nice car and nice clothes. I'm not sure that his knick knacks around the house are that high class; he doesn't have a Picasso hanging on the wall, just old ships. He has what appears to be very middle class decor sensibilities. There's no crystal; his kitchen table looks like he got it from "The Waltons" furniture sale. And, although he does not openly give to others (but then again, why give to Bert?--I mean, I would not have), with family his money flows easily to them. He didn't just give Joan the 300,000 lbs, but he was also willing to help her through her bills when she was near bankrupt, but she turned him down. I actually thought DM would have enjoyed helping her out and paying off her loans--it's safe to show love via the exchange of money.

    DM giving the packet to LG at the school was just what we could expect from the preceding seasons. It fit well within his character development.

    To expect DM suddenly, out of the blue, after all the miscommunications, and lack of communications, to ride in on a white horse, swoop up LG, and bring her home to bouquets of flowers everyone and boxes of chocolates and kneeling to her with a 12 carat ring is simply not part of the reality of the show, or the personality of DM. Offering money to help with the care of JH made good sense, both with our already established knowledge of DM's openness in helping loved ones with money, and, given all that had occurred so far in the season, and where both characters, in their extreme dysfunctionality, were at the end.

    And, absolutely, I agree with poorrichard that LG would have cashed the checks with some real relief and gratitude.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 911
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    I just caught up again with a couple of the compelling DM fan videos. We've talked endlessly about what was wrong with S5 - me included. Yes, he's angry, closed, stiff, stern, but I think I saw in those videos what was really missing: fragility. MC has described DM as "a terribly fragile house of cards." In S5 we essentially saw him as damaged, sad and often unpleasant, but missing the fragility MC let us glimpse occasionally in other series.
  • marchrandmarchrand Posts: 879
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    I just caught up again with a couple of the compelling DM fan videos. We've talked endlessly about what was wrong with S5 - me included. Yes, he's angry, closed, stiff, stern, but I think I saw in those videos what was really missing: fragility. MC has described DM as "a terribly fragile house of cards." In S5 we essentially saw him as damaged, sad and often unpleasant, but missing the fragility MC let us glimpse occasionally in other series.

    , , ,Which is one of the many reasons S6 will be presented to us in 2013.:)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 911
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    marchrand wrote: »
    , , ,Which is one of the many reasons S6 will be presented to us in 2013.:)

    I like your optimism. :)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,018
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    That's what makes the grace of his occasional grand financial gestures all the more breathtaking. I have rarely esteemed Martin so much as in that moment when he told his father that he would pay Joan's debt and that Joan wasn't even to know what he had done for her. The spreadsheet he gives to Louisa may look to us (and to her) like a rather cold-hearted "paying off" of a mistress whom he has inconvenienced, which in the traditional version of that script usually comes together with the expectation that the mistress stay out his life and inconvenience him no more. But Martin's post-dated cheques should not be seen in that light. It is another financial gesture of pure grace (paying up with no expectation of any return or quid pro quo) -- breathtaking, when you consider that from Martin's point of view, he is being denied an ongoing role in this child's life, still he pays, rather than paying to get out of having an ongoing inconvenience. That is disinterested love -- the most altruistic kind.

    There is another example from S1E3 of Martin being really quite breathtakingly gracious, and the point is made using money. In that episode he learns that Al has these ambitions to study computer repair. He shuts down Bert's side business (chateau ste marie) which was meant to provide for Al's higher education. In most cases we would expect Martin to be oblivious to the financial fall-out from his health-based demand. But what does Martin do? He creates a paid position for Al at the surgery as regular IT consultant. Al is not agressive in asking Martin for remuneration when Martin asks him to look at the computer in the surgery. Bert of course is, but Martin is way ahead of Bert. In fact I am not even sure that Martin has not messed up the computer on purpose in order to make more invoiceable work for Al. Martin seems to think he has "made the network happy" the night before, and Elaine confirms that the computer was working fine the previous day. So are we supposed to infer that Martin just isn't as competent in sorting out computer problems as he likes to think? Or (which would be the more interesting alternative) are we supposed to infer that the computer was working fine, but that Martin has sabotaged it so that he can pay Al for fixing it? To me this manner of charitable giving -- locally, secretly and in exchange for genuine work rendered -- would be much more in keeping with Martin's character than the anonymous writing of large cheques to far off charitable organisations. Martin is not generous, as a rule, with strangers, but his eagerness to help out financially is a great expression of his fealty toward family (eg. Aunt Joan, and then toward his new family: Louisa and JH). I love it that Al becomes "adopted" into Martin's family in this sense. Martin does seem to have a rather avuncular interest in Al, which is quite sweet, while at the same time he preserves Al's dignity, insisting, more than Al's father does, that Al be allowed to regard himself as a man in this exchange. By S5 we don't see as much of this Martin/Al dynamic, which is a pity, but in a way Aunt Ruth has stepped in to take it over. She is the financial benefactor now, and the one able to give Al a certain manly dignity through employment.

    In S3 E7 when LG described DM to her bridesmaid Isobel, one of the descriptors she used was "he's moral". And I think he is. I feel certain that, although he thought the break with LG was permanent and that he would have little to do with his child, he was generous in the amounts in those post-dated checks. I assume he researched it himself, probably online, but also most likely consulted with a lawyer for advice. Not sure about the UK, but in the US each state sets a standard amount of child support (a percentage of the non-custodial parent's income) and any negotiations (for more) start there. I figure he was advised of a standard or customary amount and added to it. I think he added to it because of who he is -- he's moral.

    And, YES, absolutely, of course I believe Louisa would have ended up cashing the checks, even if her intention at first was to go it alone in every way, including financially. Had she actually ended up raising JH alone, it wouldn't have taken long for her to come face to face with the extraordinary expenses involved in raising a child. In fact, she probably would have had no choice.

    PoorRichard, you mentioned the surgery's computer network, which was working fine the day before DM asked Al to work on it. I've never questioned my original interpretation of that scene; to me it's clear as a bell. The Doc sabotaged the network he had taken pains to "make happy". He knew how to fix it and also knew how to undo his fix, or break it. He did this for Al, to give him a way to earn money without it being viewed as a handout. I think if the cause is just, DM is willing and happy to help out financially. Al and Aunt Joan were just causes. Apparently in Martin's mind, Penhale's "kiddies" were a just cause. Tipping a mover who is already being paid to do his job -- in his mind, not so just. As for the water company fellow, that Christmas fund business seemed to me a blatant demand for a bribe in return for testing the water. I was happy that the Doc managed to avoid forking over any money to that fellow (that actor, by the way, is good at portraying irritating types, isn't he? -- he was the dry cleaner in the non-wedding episode too).
  • ConniejConniej Posts: 972
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    WHOOPS! MC showed up on "Daybreak", this morning. I just caught it on the ITV Player -- talked about "A Mother's Son", DM (didn't entirely commit to ending it with S6' "Never say never!"), his trip to Kenya and the Buckham Fair.

    His eyes looked VERY blue against his bright peacock blue shirt, messy hair (yum!), too.

    Might it show up on YouTube, soon??

    Yes. I ran out of time this morning and had to leave for work. It should be up later today!
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,018
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    I just caught up again with a couple of the compelling DM fan videos. We've talked endlessly about what was wrong with S5 - me included. Yes, he's angry, closed, stiff, stern, but I think I saw in those videos what was really missing: fragility. MC has described DM as "a terribly fragile house of cards." In S5 we essentially saw him as damaged, sad and often unpleasant, but missing the fragility MC let us glimpse occasionally in other series.

    Or he was working harder than ever to cover it up, disguise it, so he appeared to Louisa and the rest of the world to be in control -- doing just fine, thank you very much. I did see the butterfly dream, complete with broken glass both in the dream and in the surgery kitchen, as a little window into his fragility, but, from his perspective, that took place when he wasn't conscious, when he wasn't busy working at keeping that armor in place.
  • NewParkNewPark Posts: 3,537
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Biffpup wrote: »
    Thanks for doing that. It'll be nice to get a real answer, even if it's, "We were looking for decorative pieces for the surgery and found a collection of cheap Buddha statues at a flea market."

    I'm actually doubtful that he will respond (so far, not yet). maybe there's kind of an "omerta" for people who work on shows? I don't know. I guess we will never know. Leaning now to the cc.cookie hypothesis, or else that's ironic in some way.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 366
    Forum Member
    Originally Posted by poorrichard54
    That's what makes the grace of his occasional grand financial gestures all the more breathtaking. I have rarely esteemed Martin so much as in that moment when he told his father that he would pay Joan's debt and that Joan wasn't even to know what he had done for her. The spreadsheet he gives to Louisa may look to us (and to her) like a rather cold-hearted "paying off" of a mistress whom he has inconvenienced, which in the traditional version of that script usually comes together with the expectation that the mistress stay out his life and inconvenience him no more. But Martin's post-dated cheques should not be seen in that light. It is another financial gesture of pure grace (paying up with no expectation of any return or quid pro quo) -- breathtaking
    I agree that Martin paying off his father for Aunt Joan was a beautiful example of the man he can be.

    I'm not so sure that the cheques to Louisa are in the same category. It's complicated, as Louisa would say.

    On the one hand, Season 4 and 5 were written to make both characters incredibly dense and difficult. She doesn't communicate well, although I think she does a better job in Season 5 than he does. But there's enough poor judgment on both parts to go around.

    But in Season 4, when Martin gives her the cheques, she has made it clear, in the prior episode, that she had expected him to have some part in his child's life (although they are both defensive in that conversation). But certainly in the playground scene, when he gives her the cheques, she tells him that he will be missing something special, not being there for the birth. She is explicit -- and while I agree she has been delivering mixed messages for the entire three months, he has also chosen to read the ones that support his position, which is that she doesn't want him around -- which also reinforces his own fears that he'd be no good at being a father so he might as well go.

    What a mess, eh?

    My problem with Martin and money isn't the moments when he is breathtakingly gracious with those for whom he cares. It's that he chooses not to understand the financial reality of most people who live in PW. It's the same detachment that made him a good surgeon -- until he couldn't do it anymore. because he saw a woman with her family, not just a body needing surgical repair.

    My father-in-law was a wonderful GP. He understood the reality of his working class patients -- and it made it easier for him to treat them. It's important to be a good diagnostician -- but the body is more than the sum of the organs and bones.

    I think Martin will be a better doctor (not to mention human being) when he understands the beauty and difficulty of living in Portwenn.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,290
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    I just caught up again with a couple of the compelling DM fan videos. We've talked endlessly about what was wrong with S5 - me included. Yes, he's angry, closed, stiff, stern, but I think I saw in those videos what was really missing: fragility. MC has described DM as "a terribly fragile house of cards." In S5 we essentially saw him as damaged, sad and often unpleasant, but missing the fragility MC let us glimpse occasionally in other series.
    Biffpup wrote: »
    Or he was working harder than ever to cover it up, disguise it, so he appeared to Louisa and the rest of the world to be in control -- doing just fine, thank you very much. I did see the butterfly dream, complete with broken glass both in the dream and in the surgery kitchen, as a little window into his fragility, but, from his perspective, that took place when he wasn't conscious, when he wasn't busy working at keeping that armor in place.

    But, why? Why was he so sad and mean? He had Louisa And James Henry, and supposedly his surgeon's job in London to go back to. He should have been on top of the world. We can figure out What was missing in Series 5, but, why? :confused:
  • mazziebluemazzieblue Posts: 263
    Forum Member
    bookfan2 wrote: »
    Originally Posted by poorrichard54


    My problem with Martin and money isn't the moments when he is breathtakingly gracious with those for whom he cares. It's that he chooses not to understand the financial reality of most people who live in PW. It's the same detachment that made him a good surgeon -- until he couldn't do it anymore. because he saw a woman with her family, not just a body needing surgical repair.

    I'm not sure I attribute DM's inability to understand the financial realities of working people as relating to money at all. I think it, along with his inability to remember names for more than 2 seconds, is part of his inability to relate to them as anything but patients.

    When he gives them medical advice, he expects them to follow it to the letter. He is the doctor, he is the expert, full stop. When people go against him, or don't do as he instructed, he cannot understand it and assumes they are idiots.

    When he warns the town that the water might not be safe, he assumes they will be grateful for the warning, not realizing the implications of how reliant PW is to the sea and water. Roger Fenn's refusal to see a consultant is pigheadedness, not fear of what their diagnosis might be. When LG collapses he wants her to come to the surgery immediately, totally ignoring the fact that she can't leave a bunch of kids on their own. Even when AJ didn't want to see him about the pains in her legs, he saw it as stubbornness, not a fear of having to admit you're getting old.

    I think the impetigo case is more about this. I've given you instructions as the town doctor, how can you not follow it. He is unwilling to see that ramifications of not working are greater than getting sick. I don't think this is because he disregards specifically financial situations, but any situation where the patient seems to ignore the doctor. (I think that's why he yells as LG about this, as she is smart enough to "know better"...which she is, but not the way he is thinking.)

    I also think that's why LG and DM stand to make a great team, if they can get out of their own way. He knows what should be done and she knows what's possible within the limits of the community.
  • NewParkNewPark Posts: 3,537
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    mazzieblue wrote: »
    I'm not sure I attribute DM's inability to understand the financial realities of working people as relating to money at all. I think it, along with his inability to remember names for more than 2 seconds, is part of his inability to relate to them as anything but patients.

    When he gives them medical advice, he expects them to follow it to the letter. He is the doctor, he is the expert, full stop. When people go against him, or don't do as he instructed, he cannot understand it and assumes they are idiots.

    When he warns the town that the water might not be safe, he assumes they will be grateful for the warning, not realizing the implications of how reliant PW is to the sea and water. Roger Fenn's refusal to see a consultant is pigheadedness, not fear of what their diagnosis might be. When LG collapses he wants her to come to the surgery immediately, totally ignoring the fact that she can't leave a bunch of kids on their own. Even when AJ didn't want to see him about the pains in her legs, he saw it as stubbornness, not a fear of having to admit you're getting old.

    I think the impetigo case is more about this. I've given you instructions as the town doctor, how can you not follow it. He is unwilling to see that ramifications of not working are greater than getting sick. I don't think this is because he disregards specifically financial situations, but any situation where the patient seems to ignore the doctor. (I think that's why he yells as LG about this, as she is smart enough to "know better"...which she is, but not the way he is thinking.)

    I also think that's why LG and DM stand to make a great team, if they can get out of their own way. He knows what should be done and she knows what's possible within the limits of the community.

    I agree with you.

    It really goes back to their opening exchange in S1E1, as to whether patients were just "bodies" or not. Louisa was right -- it's been very difficult for Doc Martin to get past that mindset. Very occasional flashes of something else breaking through -- he may soften a bit more in S6, but I doubt it will ever come naturally to him.
  • NewParkNewPark Posts: 3,537
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    ReneeBird wrote: »
    But, why? Why was he so sad and mean? He had Louisa And James Henry, and supposedly his surgeon's job in London to go back to. He should have been on top of the world. We can figure out What was missing in Series 5, but, why? :confused:

    Maybe we are all underestimating the depth and sincerity of his desire to get back to London and his career as a surgeon?

    I have been attributing most of his motives for leaving PortWenn to the desire to flee his despair over losing Louisa. But it may have been much more positive than that -- he wanted his old life back. (We don't think that's what's best for him, some of us, but that's beside the point.)

    I think that contributed to his not picking up on the mixed messages from Louisa that she did want him to a degree involved with her and with the baby. He didn't really want to hear it, because he must have sensed how complicating that would be for his plans to return to London. (And so he got quite defensive whenever challenged about his involvement or lack thereof.) Of course, he was secretly quite intrigued with the idea of becoming a father, but the depth of that was hidden, even to himself I think.

    so in Series 5, I think it is becoming obvious to him over time that a) it will be very difficult for Louisa to cope alone with the baby and b) his cavalier assumption that Louisa should just give up her life and move to London with him was somewhat unfair to her. (Now I know that Mona will feel that it might actually be good for Louisa to move to London and I can sympathize with that to a degree, but the fact is, he does know that Louisa does not like the London she has previously experienced.)

    So maybe what is going on with him, why he is so non-committal, is that at some level, he is trying to work this out in his mind -- to come to terms with the idea that in order to keep his family together, he will probably have to give up his London dream.

    It's a thought, anyway, because, basically, his behavior in S5 still remains inexplicable to me.

    And BTW, the idea that he would do the 6 hour drive from London to PortWenn down and back "most" weekends, is just pathetically unrealistic. Folly, really. He must have realized as soon as he committed himself to it that he'd be better off just to stay.
  • mmDerdekeammDerdekea Posts: 1,719
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Biffpup wrote: »

    PoorRichard, you mentioned the surgery's computer network, which was working fine the day before DM asked Al to work on it. I've never questioned my original interpretation of that scene; to me it's clear as a bell. The Doc sabotaged the network he had taken pains to "make happy". He knew how to fix it and also knew how to undo his fix, or break it. He did this for Al, to give him a way to earn money without it being viewed as a handout.


    I do not believe DM sabotaged the network myself. I don't believe he has that kind of "cunning." I think he figured he made the computer as happy as he thought he made his new dishwasher when he installed that; in both cases his handyman work was far from competent! :)

    I mean, remember, this is a guy who is a brilliant doctor, but who can't even hang up a mobile phone correctly when he puts it back in his shirt! :) I don't personally believe he has the computer know-how he thinks he does.

    I agree that his refusal to pay the water analysis XMAS fund was perfectly acceptable. It was a bribe for a man to help out analyzing if the village water was infecting nearly half the town with diarrhea. When it comes to his patients, DM is right that folks should go out of their way to help sick and injured folks, within the purview of their job, and not use bribery as the means.
This discussion has been closed.