Can you prove that somewhere in the vastness of the universe and in time such a creature could not exist.
It might exist somewhere. But not in the Earth's satellite.
So the idea was garbage. (However much people rush to it's defence).
But DW has had a lot of whimsical fantasy since Moff took over. Some like it, some don't. I can cope with some of it, but not moon dragons. (Still giggling, sorry!)
Firstly, there's nothing "easy" about time travel in the show - it requires the use of technology developed by a race that is massively more evolved and scientifically advanced that humans.
Best of all though is the fact that current REAL science does NOT preclude the possibility of time travel at some point in the future. As a matter of FACT - scientists at the University of Queensland published research that not only simulates a method of send photons back in time but which shows that time travel may be a simple, physical fact that explains a number of problems that current physics fails to cover.
This is the very best program I've ever seen on time travel (written and presented by Stephen Hawking himself):
Well worth a watch as it explains why time travel in the same manner as something like the TARDIS just doesn't add up.
There is no doubt that time is malleable and indeed even our astronauts have 'time travelled' by microseconds due to the speeds they have reached, but controllable time travel, leaving one destination and arriving precisely at another one, the ability to go back and forwards at will, just seems to be nothing more than a pipe dream.
Can you prove that somewhere in the vastness of the universe and in time such a creature could not exist.
But DW isn't a philosophic game of 6 Impossible Things Before Breakfast it's a TV drama series...on the whole it usually manages to create fantastical scenarios which with a bit of effort can be accepted due to the quality of the character and conflict scenarios built around the fantastical....it's always going to be an elastic boundary but for some of us the moon/egg stepped over it into absurdity which reduced the dramatic integrity of the episode as a whole.
But DW isn't a philosophic game of 6 Impossible Things Before Breakfast it's a TV drama series...on the whole it usually manages to create fantastical scenarios which with a bit of effort can be accepted due to the quality of the character and conflict scenarios built around the fantastical....it's always going to be an elastic boundary but for some of us the moon/egg stepped over it into absurdity which reduced the dramatic integrity of the episode as a whole.
And some people won't watch it because the idea of a man going through time and space in a old police box is to absurd.
The idea that such a creature could exist is not all that absurd in the Doctor Who universe
Likely? Possibly? But still solid science. Time Travel is a staple of SciFi. Star Trek didn't explain everything (just gave things names like 'inertial dampners' and ignored how they worked) but it's still sci-fi.
Remember what happened when George Lucas decided to "explain" The Force as something "scientific". It may have moved Star Wars out of total science fantasy and at least part way into being science fiction - but it trashed something that fans loved about the original films.
And some people won't watch it because the idea of a man going through time and space in a old police box is to absurd.
The idea that such a creature could exist is not all that absurd in the Doctor Who universe
Like I said the absurdity event horizon is a fuzzy line and each person will have their own tolerance level for when it is crossed, but I would say it's quite evident from the amount of discussion it has generated that for some forum members that line was crossed by the moon/egg.
I was fine in the end with the Moon being an egg (and could overlook the spiders being 'germs', just about got past the 'turning the lights out' bit, though it's a better as a concept), but thought it went way beyond the realms of believability when the new-born alien managed to lay an egg the same size as the moon. Huh?
Nope. It was nowhere near the same size. This image is from the original moon breaking up. This image is the replacement moon. Note the size of the TARDIS in both images - it is the same size. They are from slightly different views, but the new moon is demonstrably smaller.
So we can accept the 'scientific' notion of a sentient sun that feeds on emotions but not the 'implausible' idea that an alien creature has a different reproductive conduit...hmmm.
Btw, on some of the old Target novelizations, the show was classified as science fantasy
As much as the 'new moon' element grated on me a bit, pushing my limit to what I thought was acceptable, I don't recall anyone actually stating that the new moon was actually the same size, did they?
So when they looked up at it it was probably only a few feet away from them and they just assumed it was big because they thought it was far away?
Why would the creature have wings?
It's in space. Wings are designed by nature to help creatures fly in the air and counter the effects of gravity. Flapping its wings in space wouldn't help give it some lift.
Why would the creature have wings?
It's in space. Wings are designed by nature to help creatures fly in the air and counter the effects of gravity. Flapping its wings in space wouldn't help give it some lift.
Easy, it uses 'wings' to catch the solar winds and 'rides' them through space (see Enlightenment and Fear Her). The 'flapping' just after it has hatched is to shake off the amniotic fluid residue.
Do you people not know your basic moon egg giant space creature hatchling biology?? Just what are they teaching kids these days?? I blame Danny Pink.
Firstly, there's nothing "easy" about time travel in the show - it requires the use of technology developed by a race that is massively more evolved and scientifically advanced that humans.
You've just proved how easy it is. That one sentence contains all the detail you need to know about time travel in the Doctor Who universe. Wizards did it. There's no attempt to tie it to real-world physics, no attempt to establish a specific set of rules about how it can be done or what the effect are, it just happens because it needs to, don't question it.
Personally, I found the idea of the moon being an egg more plausible than the spiders being "bacteria". But I do agree that the age of the moon issue should have been explained.
Why would the creature have wings?
It's in space. Wings are designed by nature to help creatures fly in the air and counter the effects of gravity. Flapping its wings in space wouldn't help give it some lift.
Who says they were wings?
Do fish have "wings" - do they "fly" through water?
Do Tena Lady have "wings" - do they fly through your underwear?
And if they were wings - so what?
Why does the space shuttle have wings?
Maybe - like the space shuttle - that creature doesn't ONLY travel in space.
Personally, I found the idea of the moon being an egg more plausible than the spiders being "bacteria". But I do agree that the age of the moon issue should have been explained.
I liked the CGI of the spiders but agree that they didn't "feel" like bacteria.
Someone else gave a good suggestion for the age of the moon after I pointed out that genuine moon rock had been dated at 1.2 to 4.5 billion years - their suggestion was that the "shell" is being recycled after each "hatching" so the material in it could be far older than the current egg.
My suggestion was that the "space chicken" had fed off the radioactive elements in the rock - so the dating system (which works by measuring how much radioactive energy has been lost) would assume that the rocks are far older than they actually are (that suggestion also answered the criticism that that mass of the moon had increased - whereas a real chicken's egg gets lighter as the foetus grows)
You've just proved how easy it is. That one sentence contains all the detail you need to know about time travel in the Doctor Who universe. Wizards did it. There's no attempt to tie it to real-world physics, no attempt to establish a specific set of rules about how it can be done or what the effect are, it just happens because it needs to, don't question it.
I don't think anyone has questioned time-travel - because that's one of the elements in the series that is included in the "suspension of disbelief". We accept SOME differences from reality but it's still actually set in this universe.
We can say that - for example - there are striped elephants in a fantasy version of Earth - but if the writer suddenly says that the striped elephant played the piano in Carnegie Hall, it is entirely proper for someone to question how an elephant - even a striped one - can play the piano - especially if we've previously and repeated been shown that the best they can manage is to squirt water out of their noses and shove peanuts up their but.
Doctor Who may be "fantasy" but so is every other drama ever written - that label doesn't only apply to sci-fi or adventure stories. It's always been a key part of this show that there are "physical laws" and that they are the same as in the real world unless we are told otherwise - the "Earth" on Doctor Who is meant to be THIS Earth - complete with gravity and chips.
Personally I find the idea of a moon creature laying a moon-sized egg more believable than the idea that there are elements whose nuclei don't disintegrate immediately and which have no place in the periodic table.
We know all the elements up 118. It is impossible for there to be any other in between...
and yet Doctor Who (classic Who mainly) is no stranger to having some rare element with magical properties as part of its plots.
This creature was supposedly unique? How do we know it isn't some kind of extra-dimensional entity which can gain mass from other dimensions/universes? And perhaps the egg wasn't actually laid as such, but brought forth from another universe.
If the TARDIS can be bigger on the inside, why can't a giant space-beast we know very little about produce an egg which is bigger than it?
Doctor Who has always had ludicrous plots and ideas. It doesn't ruin my enjoyment of the episodes one bit.
It's always been a key part of this show that there are "physical laws" and that they are the same as in the real world unless we are told otherwise - the "Earth" on Doctor Who is meant to be THIS Earth - complete with gravity and chips.
Nah, it's always been a key part of this show that everything we think is true is a product of our limited monkey minds and that only the Doctor can show us the impossible wonders of the universe.
Ghost-like aliens that can possess gas flames and humans? Stars that burn cold?
There are worlds out there where the sky is burning, where the sea is asleep and the rivers dream; people made of smoke and cities made of song.
What looked like being a really good episode was totally ruined for me by a totally mental idea. The moon is an egg? A giant chicken hatches a new moon? I know we have had daft things in the past like the tardis flying the earth but this was a new low for me. Totally unacceptable.
We had a big Chicken on the moon. All we needed were the clangers and the soup dragon and we could have completed the set.
Comments
It might exist somewhere. But not in the Earth's satellite.
So the idea was garbage. (However much people rush to it's defence).
But DW has had a lot of whimsical fantasy since Moff took over. Some like it, some don't. I can cope with some of it, but not moon dragons. (Still giggling, sorry!)
This is the very best program I've ever seen on time travel (written and presented by Stephen Hawking himself):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iby0vsD9C4
Well worth a watch as it explains why time travel in the same manner as something like the TARDIS just doesn't add up.
There is no doubt that time is malleable and indeed even our astronauts have 'time travelled' by microseconds due to the speeds they have reached, but controllable time travel, leaving one destination and arriving precisely at another one, the ability to go back and forwards at will, just seems to be nothing more than a pipe dream.
But DW isn't a philosophic game of 6 Impossible Things Before Breakfast it's a TV drama series...on the whole it usually manages to create fantastical scenarios which with a bit of effort can be accepted due to the quality of the character and conflict scenarios built around the fantastical....it's always going to be an elastic boundary but for some of us the moon/egg stepped over it into absurdity which reduced the dramatic integrity of the episode as a whole.
And some people won't watch it because the idea of a man going through time and space in a old police box is to absurd.
The idea that such a creature could exist is not all that absurd in the Doctor Who universe
Remember what happened when George Lucas decided to "explain" The Force as something "scientific". It may have moved Star Wars out of total science fantasy and at least part way into being science fiction - but it trashed something that fans loved about the original films.
Like I said the absurdity event horizon is a fuzzy line and each person will have their own tolerance level for when it is crossed, but I would say it's quite evident from the amount of discussion it has generated that for some forum members that line was crossed by the moon/egg.
Nope. It was nowhere near the same size. This image is from the original moon breaking up. This image is the replacement moon. Note the size of the TARDIS in both images - it is the same size. They are from slightly different views, but the new moon is demonstrably smaller.
Actually, the TARDIS is one of the few 'hard Science Fiction' elements in Doctor Who.
Doctor Who has always been science fantasy. Anyone thinking otherwise is kidding themselves.
I wasn't into the egg-moon idea either but I can't in honesty claim it's an idea beneath Doctor Who.
Btw, on some of the old Target novelizations, the show was classified as science fantasy
So when they looked up at it it was probably only a few feet away from them and they just assumed it was big because they thought it was far away?
It's in space. Wings are designed by nature to help creatures fly in the air and counter the effects of gravity. Flapping its wings in space wouldn't help give it some lift.
Easy, it uses 'wings' to catch the solar winds and 'rides' them through space (see Enlightenment and Fear Her). The 'flapping' just after it has hatched is to shake off the amniotic fluid residue.
Do you people not know your basic moon egg giant space creature hatchling biology?? Just what are they teaching kids these days?? I blame Danny Pink.
"Science Fiction is Fantasy with nuts and bolts painted on the outside" (rough paraphrase of Terry Pratchett).
However, last nights batch of nuts and bolts were particularly badly painted.
You can't blame the P.E. teacher for the failings of the xenobiology syllabus...
It's known as The Father Dougal Effect.
Who says they were wings?
Do fish have "wings" - do they "fly" through water?
Do Tena Lady have "wings" - do they fly through your underwear?
And if they were wings - so what?
Why does the space shuttle have wings?
Maybe - like the space shuttle - that creature doesn't ONLY travel in space.
I liked the CGI of the spiders but agree that they didn't "feel" like bacteria.
Someone else gave a good suggestion for the age of the moon after I pointed out that genuine moon rock had been dated at 1.2 to 4.5 billion years - their suggestion was that the "shell" is being recycled after each "hatching" so the material in it could be far older than the current egg.
My suggestion was that the "space chicken" had fed off the radioactive elements in the rock - so the dating system (which works by measuring how much radioactive energy has been lost) would assume that the rocks are far older than they actually are (that suggestion also answered the criticism that that mass of the moon had increased - whereas a real chicken's egg gets lighter as the foetus grows)
I don't think anyone has questioned time-travel - because that's one of the elements in the series that is included in the "suspension of disbelief". We accept SOME differences from reality but it's still actually set in this universe.
We can say that - for example - there are striped elephants in a fantasy version of Earth - but if the writer suddenly says that the striped elephant played the piano in Carnegie Hall, it is entirely proper for someone to question how an elephant - even a striped one - can play the piano - especially if we've previously and repeated been shown that the best they can manage is to squirt water out of their noses and shove peanuts up their but.
Doctor Who may be "fantasy" but so is every other drama ever written - that label doesn't only apply to sci-fi or adventure stories. It's always been a key part of this show that there are "physical laws" and that they are the same as in the real world unless we are told otherwise - the "Earth" on Doctor Who is meant to be THIS Earth - complete with gravity and chips.
We know all the elements up 118. It is impossible for there to be any other in between...
and yet Doctor Who (classic Who mainly) is no stranger to having some rare element with magical properties as part of its plots.
This creature was supposedly unique? How do we know it isn't some kind of extra-dimensional entity which can gain mass from other dimensions/universes? And perhaps the egg wasn't actually laid as such, but brought forth from another universe.
If the TARDIS can be bigger on the inside, why can't a giant space-beast we know very little about produce an egg which is bigger than it?
Doctor Who has always had ludicrous plots and ideas. It doesn't ruin my enjoyment of the episodes one bit.
Nah, it's always been a key part of this show that everything we think is true is a product of our limited monkey minds and that only the Doctor can show us the impossible wonders of the universe.
Ghost-like aliens that can possess gas flames and humans? Stars that burn cold?
There are worlds out there where the sky is burning, where the sea is asleep and the rivers dream; people made of smoke and cities made of song.
We had a big Chicken on the moon. All we needed were the clangers and the soup dragon and we could have completed the set.
(Love Gridlock.)