I am a little surprised at that. Is this just since the re-unification of Germany ? The only reason I ask is because
A - Its 1990 onwards
B - I would have thought the wall coming down would be in the ten
I think ratings for Eastern Germany have only been compiled from 1992 or 1993 onwards. So the 28.66m for the 1990 final were from West Germany only. You can probably add another 7m from the GDR which officially still existed then.
In the 80s, it wasn't unusual for fictional programmes and Saturdy night variety shows to have 20+ million viewers but big football matches topped the charts with around 25m.
When the wall came down in 1989, it was a breaking news story that was unfolding from 7.30pm on 9th November until the next morning (and over the next couple of days). Most of the primetime programming went ahead as scheduled. During the late news bulletins at 9.45 and 10.30, people really started to realise what was happening. Of course, a lot of people were glued to the telly for hours and days, but I guess there were also millions of people who didn't care that much.
ITV have been crafty tonight by calling themselves "the only place you can see the last three/two games of this World Cup", which as an overall sequence is true but not the slightest bit when referring to the final.
itv always shows the 3/4 game dont they.
they might say there the only place, but BBC will beat them in the ratings sunday night....
Ignoring the final, the match split is 30/33. Does this mean that next time the BBC will get extra matches or is it tough titties?
Even accounting for the 3rd place match, I cant quite work out under an alternate pick system how ITV have ended up with 3 matches more than BBC. Is it because if one broadcaster picks one of the final group matches they automatically get given the other group game?
Ignoring the final, the match split is 30/33. Does this mean that next time the BBC will get extra matches or is it tough titties?
Even accounting for the 3rd place match, I cant quite work out under an alternate pick system how ITV have ended up with 3 matches more than BBC. Is it because if one broadcaster picks one of the final group matches they automatically get given the other group game?
Yes, you've answered your own question. ITV had 2 more final group rounds than BBC.
ITV have been crafty tonight by calling themselves "the only place you can see the last three/two games of this World Cup", which as an overall sequence is true but not the slightest bit when referring to the final.
They actually said it was the only place you could see ALL of the remaining three games - which was perfectly true and nothing crafty about it.
That one word left out of your post makes all the difference
I don't recall hearing the word 'all' within the statement.
Before the match Adrian Chiles said "there are only three matches left in this World Cup and the only place you can watch all of them live is ITV", which is a true statement.
I think ratings for Eastern Germany have only been compiled from 1992 or 1993 onwards. So the 28.66m for the 1990 final were from West Germany only. You can probably add another 7m from the GDR which officially still existed then.
In the 80s, it wasn't unusual for fictional programmes and Saturdy night variety shows to have 20+ million viewers but big football matches topped the charts with around 25m.
When the wall came down in 1989, it was a breaking news story that was unfolding from 7.30pm on 9th November until the next morning (and over the next couple of days). Most of the primetime programming went ahead as scheduled. During the late news bulletins at 9.45 and 10.30, people really started to realise what was happening. Of course, a lot of people were glued to the telly for hours and days, but I guess there were also millions of people who didn't care that much.
I've definitely really enjoyed ITV's coverage for the 5pm game. I know someone said it felt like they were going through a range of stuff but I don't see a problem with that - Monday Night Football for instance has an hour build-up and certainly concentrates on a lot more than just the live match, and is all the better for it. I suppose it is somewhat ironic though that a match like Cameroon V Mexico gets a longer build-up than a World Cup semi-final just because of the time it happens to be played!
I've actually preferred ITV's method this year of just having everything in their live programmes and not having any extra programmes for highlights, discussion etc - presumably that's where the regular hour pre-match comes from. I'm not blaming the BBC for offering these services because there's obviously a use for them but I've seen basically all of ITV's World Cup coverage whereas that's not the case for the BBC's (in terms of Football Focus, the morning highlights programme, the evening highlights and so on.) I'd almost like ITV to continue with this approach in future tournaments.
I think ITV's studio stuff has improved considerably since 2010, though the commentary has declined majorly. In a way I suppose this is ironic because the studio stuff is interrupted so much by adverts whereas the commentary is obviously very prominent. For the BBC I feel Dan Walker should be doing the job Jason Mohammad is doing and being the main man going to grounds - I know he's doing some radio work but aside from the odd TV appearance in Rio and at the England game, and some rubbish stuff with Social Media, I've barely seen him at this tournament.
I've definitely really enjoyed ITV's coverage for the 5pm game. I know someone said it felt like they were going through a range of stuff but I don't see a problem with that - Monday Night Football for instance has an hour build-up and certainly concentrates on a lot more than just the live match, and is all the better for it. I suppose it is somewhat ironic though that a match like Cameroon V Mexico gets a longer build-up than a World Cup semi-final just because of the time it happens to be played!
I've actually preferred ITV's method this year of just having everything in their live programmes and not having any extra programmes for highlights, discussion etc - presumably that's where the regular hour pre-match comes from. I'm not blaming the BBC for offering these services because there's obviously a use for them but I've seen basically all of ITV's World Cup coverage whereas that's not the case for the BBC's (in terms of Football Focus, the morning highlights programme, the evening highlights and so on.) I'd almost like ITV to continue with this approach in future tournaments.
I think ITV's studio stuff has improved considerably since 2010, though the commentary has declined majorly. In a way I suppose this is ironic because the studio stuff is interrupted so much by adverts whereas the commentary is obviously very prominent. For the BBC I feel Dan Walker should be doing the job Jason Mohammad is doing and being the main man going to grounds - I know he's doing some radio work but aside from the odd TV appearance in Rio and at the England game, and some rubbish stuff with Social Media, I've barely seen him at this tournament.
I agree on ITV doing everything in one show - I like the idea of a highlights show but to be honest I haven't watched the BBC highlights show at all this tournament and more often than not it's been easy enough to cover other games and what happened in them during ITV's regular show.
On the commentary, I think only Joe Speight and Lee Dixon have been good fro ITV. But I do think people look back on ITV's 2010 commentary efforts with rose-tinted glasses. Clive 'n' Andy were as bad then as good and Drury in 2010 was in full hyperbole and overdramatic mode (his 'Goal for All Africa' rubbish and patronsing of African teams and Africa in general was cringeworthy). So it was hardly a golden age for commentary.
Any clue yet who ITV have as pundits for the final? I'd like it to be (of who they have left) Dixon, O'Neill and Straachan as those are my favourite 3 but I can see it being Hoddle instead of Straachan. And I don't think I even need to guess ITV's commentators.
Do we know yet who'll be joining Mowbray on the BBC final commentary?
Essentially Andy Townsend didn't commentate for ITV at the last World Cup though - he only did the two England games live. Otherwise he was always in the studio. Jim Beglin and Craig Burley were excellent, as was Jon Champion. I'm not a great fan of Drury but I certainly think he is significantly better than Matterface.
Wright, Hoddle and O'Neill are listed for the 3rd/4th place match on the ITV press centre. Those three plus Dixon and Cannavaro are listed for the final - I presume two of them will be at the stadium again as I can't see them having all 5 in the studio. Presumably Gordon Strachan isn't going to be used again this summer - a shame as I think he's much better than Wright and Cannavaro. For me the final should be O'Neill, Dixon and either Hoddle or Strachan with the other in the stadium.
I've actually preferred ITV's method this year of just having everything in their live programmes and not having any extra programmes for highlights, discussion etc - presumably that's where the regular hour pre-match comes from. I'm not blaming the BBC for offering these services because there's obviously a use for them but I've seen basically all of ITV's World Cup coverage whereas that's not the case for the BBC's (in terms of Football Focus, the morning highlights programme, the evening highlights and so on.) I'd almost like ITV to continue with this approach in future tournaments.
I'd broadly agree with you, although I do have a couple of minor irritations with the way ITV has dealt with highlights. A few games haven't been shown on their TV coverage because they haven't had a live game soon enough afterwards to catch up; I'm thinking of the final two last-16 games, the Netherlands-Costa Rica quarter-final and a handful of the group-stage matches. (I do realise that all of those games have been shown on their website, though.)
In addition, there have been a couple of games that have been shown in a style that Danny Baker has referred to on Twitter (in another context that had nothing to do with ITV) as "like a Nike advert" - that is, lots of fast cuts between strange angles and a music bed with disconnected snatches of commentary fed in. The France v Germany quarter-final was shown in this way and - I know it's a personal thing - I just found it annoying. If a match was played 24 hours ago, turning it into a music video isn't going to make it seem any more recent.
To me, the BBC's highlights shows have often felt superfluous. It's nice that the BBC have done them, and that I can watch them if I want to - but by and large, I haven't. When I've watched BBC highlights, it's almost always been those they've shown in the build-up to a live game.
BBC1 - Hosted by Gary Lineker.
Pundits - Alan Hansen, Alan Shearer and Rio Ferdinand
Commentators - Guy Mowbray and Mark Lawrenson.
Reporter - Jason Mohammed
ITV1 - Hosted by Adrian Chiles
Pundits - Lee Dixon, Glenn Hoddle, Ian Wright, Martin O'Neill and Fabio Cannavaro
Commentators - Clive Tyldesley and Andy Townsend
Reporter - Gabriel Clarke
Shame that after such a good tournament BBC end up with probably one of the stalest final line-ups they could have had (though it wasn't unexpected). I understand maybe Thierry and Seedorf couldn't stay the entire tournament but I don't think that's BBC's best line-up by a long way (though it seems to be what they regard as their A-list line-up for some reason).
I'm assuming with the ITV one two of those five pundits will be either on the beach or at the stadium with Matt Smith. Can't say I'm surprised by their line-up.
Will certainly be BBC for the actual match commentary itself for me on the night (even with Lawro involved on the BBC) but I may well end up watching the pre and post match stuff on ITV which sounds a far better punditry line-up. O'Neill and Dixon v Hansen and Shearer - not a tough one for me.
Comments
In the 80s, it wasn't unusual for fictional programmes and Saturdy night variety shows to have 20+ million viewers but big football matches topped the charts with around 25m.
When the wall came down in 1989, it was a breaking news story that was unfolding from 7.30pm on 9th November until the next morning (and over the next couple of days). Most of the primetime programming went ahead as scheduled. During the late news bulletins at 9.45 and 10.30, people really started to realise what was happening. Of course, a lot of people were glued to the telly for hours and days, but I guess there were also millions of people who didn't care that much.
itv always shows the 3/4 game dont they.
they might say there the only place, but BBC will beat them in the ratings sunday night....
Even accounting for the 3rd place match, I cant quite work out under an alternate pick system how ITV have ended up with 3 matches more than BBC. Is it because if one broadcaster picks one of the final group matches they automatically get given the other group game?
Yes, you've answered your own question. ITV had 2 more final group rounds than BBC.
They actually said it was the only place you could see ALL of the remaining three games - which was perfectly true and nothing crafty about it.
That one word left out of your post makes all the difference
I don't recall hearing the word 'all' within the statement.
It was pretty clear to me. I guess people hear what they want to hear sometimes
Before the match Adrian Chiles said "there are only three matches left in this World Cup and the only place you can watch all of them live is ITV", which is a true statement.
They definitely did.
Thank you Karl
A quick look at the EPG shows it is on at 2.05am on Sunday morning on BBC2. The whole game too. Commentary by Steve Wilson
I've actually preferred ITV's method this year of just having everything in their live programmes and not having any extra programmes for highlights, discussion etc - presumably that's where the regular hour pre-match comes from. I'm not blaming the BBC for offering these services because there's obviously a use for them but I've seen basically all of ITV's World Cup coverage whereas that's not the case for the BBC's (in terms of Football Focus, the morning highlights programme, the evening highlights and so on.) I'd almost like ITV to continue with this approach in future tournaments.
I think ITV's studio stuff has improved considerably since 2010, though the commentary has declined majorly. In a way I suppose this is ironic because the studio stuff is interrupted so much by adverts whereas the commentary is obviously very prominent. For the BBC I feel Dan Walker should be doing the job Jason Mohammad is doing and being the main man going to grounds - I know he's doing some radio work but aside from the odd TV appearance in Rio and at the England game, and some rubbish stuff with Social Media, I've barely seen him at this tournament.
I agree on ITV doing everything in one show - I like the idea of a highlights show but to be honest I haven't watched the BBC highlights show at all this tournament and more often than not it's been easy enough to cover other games and what happened in them during ITV's regular show.
On the commentary, I think only Joe Speight and Lee Dixon have been good fro ITV. But I do think people look back on ITV's 2010 commentary efforts with rose-tinted glasses. Clive 'n' Andy were as bad then as good and Drury in 2010 was in full hyperbole and overdramatic mode (his 'Goal for All Africa' rubbish and patronsing of African teams and Africa in general was cringeworthy). So it was hardly a golden age for commentary.
Any clue yet who ITV have as pundits for the final? I'd like it to be (of who they have left) Dixon, O'Neill and Straachan as those are my favourite 3 but I can see it being Hoddle instead of Straachan. And I don't think I even need to guess ITV's commentators.
Do we know yet who'll be joining Mowbray on the BBC final commentary?
Wright, Hoddle and O'Neill are listed for the 3rd/4th place match on the ITV press centre. Those three plus Dixon and Cannavaro are listed for the final - I presume two of them will be at the stadium again as I can't see them having all 5 in the studio. Presumably Gordon Strachan isn't going to be used again this summer - a shame as I think he's much better than Wright and Cannavaro. For me the final should be O'Neill, Dixon and either Hoddle or Strachan with the other in the stadium.
I'd broadly agree with you, although I do have a couple of minor irritations with the way ITV has dealt with highlights. A few games haven't been shown on their TV coverage because they haven't had a live game soon enough afterwards to catch up; I'm thinking of the final two last-16 games, the Netherlands-Costa Rica quarter-final and a handful of the group-stage matches. (I do realise that all of those games have been shown on their website, though.)
In addition, there have been a couple of games that have been shown in a style that Danny Baker has referred to on Twitter (in another context that had nothing to do with ITV) as "like a Nike advert" - that is, lots of fast cuts between strange angles and a music bed with disconnected snatches of commentary fed in. The France v Germany quarter-final was shown in this way and - I know it's a personal thing - I just found it annoying. If a match was played 24 hours ago, turning it into a music video isn't going to make it seem any more recent.
To me, the BBC's highlights shows have often felt superfluous. It's nice that the BBC have done them, and that I can watch them if I want to - but by and large, I haven't. When I've watched BBC highlights, it's almost always been those they've shown in the build-up to a live game.
BBC1 - Hosted by Gary Lineker.
Pundits - Alan Hansen, Alan Shearer and Rio Ferdinand
Commentators - Guy Mowbray and Mark Lawrenson.
Reporter - Jason Mohammed
ITV1 - Hosted by Adrian Chiles
Pundits - Lee Dixon, Glenn Hoddle, Ian Wright, Martin O'Neill and Fabio Cannavaro
Commentators - Clive Tyldesley and Andy Townsend
Reporter - Gabriel Clarke
Also, with the game being in Rio, will any of the presenting teams be at the stadium this time?
Assume that Hoddle & Wright will be on the beach set, probably with Matt Smith
same with bbc they also have 5 pundits for the final
Martin Keown and Juninho will be at the ground...
I'm assuming with the ITV one two of those five pundits will be either on the beach or at the stadium with Matt Smith. Can't say I'm surprised by their line-up.
Will certainly be BBC for the actual match commentary itself for me on the night (even with Lawro involved on the BBC) but I may well end up watching the pre and post match stuff on ITV which sounds a far better punditry line-up. O'Neill and Dixon v Hansen and Shearer - not a tough one for me.