The government just amended a bill to allow someone's British citizenship to be revoked if there is another country they could claim citizenship of. It's intended to be used against ISIS supporters, but given how laws are commonly mis-applied, it could easily be used to make Scottish people be just Scottish citizens.
If Scottish people want to be Scottish, rather than British, why shouldn't they just be Scottish citizens?
I have a feeling some of the YES voters don't actually know what the word Independence means. Scotland will be a foreign country.
Of course, it is a shame to break up a 300 year union that has created a more successful unified nation.
However, part of the reason to create that union was to end border animosity and fighting between the two nations. It achieved that aim.
Today the world is a different place and increasingly moving towards smaller governmental states. If it is the desire of the Scottish people to run their own country, it will be a shame, as it was a beneficial union, but I would say, fair enough.
Not to accept the public will would simply create more tension and the union would be worthless anyhow as it would like increase animosity and not reduce it.
Far better that we have a decisive result, though, because any no vote by a small margin will lead to years of uncertainty before an inevitable second referendum. It will immeasurably weaken both Scotland and England/Wales/Northern Ireland in many ways (economically, politically and so forth) if the vote is very close either way. As unfortunately it seems almost certain to be.
In some ways now then I rather hope that separation is the decision (though I would have preferred the union to remain). But I think it is obvious too many people in Scotland want independence and so better for a clean break now rather than after another decade of wrangling.
What I think we should do is to create something else that has a status that links the two independent countries - the UK (as remains) and Scotland. Both will still, of course, be part of the British Isles. So perhaps we could create a British Federation, or some such, that could even replace the UK and allow for it to be a mutual alliance over things that we share but do not require sovereignty to be combined.
After all, it is likely a Scottish Yes vote will force greater concessions to Wales and Northern Ireland from Westminster as the dangling of these to Scotland in a desperate attempt to save the union will mean that if this fails the other nation states will want greater autonomy.
It will take time but a federalist Britain will become a certainty from a Scottish Yes vote and that might be the best thing anyway for the nation states we have on these islands.
So wise - I think - to plan for that by agreeing a new form of union sooner rather than later that can accommodate independence but allow for continued recognition of our shared values and heritage in some looser but formalised way.
Of course, there is one last ploy we might use to try to save the union. Remind the Scottish people that leaving the UK will mean they will have to qualify to even enter the Eurovision Song Contest after next year.
That will tip the vote decisively - one way or the other!
For whom exactly? After all, if Scotland contributes more than it spends then isn't the remaining UK who will be suffering?
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I'm pretty sure Scotland will do fine as an independent country, but you would have to be insane not to realise the average Scot will be substantially worse off, at least in the short term. A combination of business relocation (some financial and research businesses will HAVE to relocate, even if other business are just bluffing), loss of various funding, cost of of setting up new institutions, removal of subsidies from businesses like supermarkets, general increased cost of borrowing, and lots of other things too. That's before you even get to the all the expensive promises Salmond has made.
It may be a price worth paying for independence, but at least go in with your eyes open.
Thanks, Citadel. I do wonder if the increasing closeness of this decision, whichever way it goes the week after next, means we have reached a tipping point.
I suspect a lot of people outside of Scotland thought the decision would be an obvious and clear No and they are now for the first time asking themselves - ooh, what does this really mean for me, then?
If I recall correctly the early polls in the rest of the UK suggested that there was actually a slightly higher percentage in favour of separation there than in Scotland itself.
How things have changed as the referendum date has approached.
Perhaps that will focus minds within the rest of the UK on where we should all turn next. And that can only be a good thing.
Might turn out to be a referendum for one country that eventually benefits four.
Thanks, Citadel. I do wonder if the increasing closeness of this decision, whichever way it goes the week after next, means we have reached a tipping point.
I suspect a lot of people outside of Scotland thought the decision would be an obvious and clear No and they are now for the first time asking themselves - ooh, what does this really mean for me, then?
If I recall correctly the early polls in the rest of the UK suggested that there was actually a slightly higher percentage in favour of separation there than in Scotland itself.
How things have changed as the referendum date has approached.
Perhaps that will focus minds within the rest of the UK on where we should all turn next. And that can only be a good thing.
Might turn out to be a referendum for one country that eventually benefits four.
I fully agree. Our democracy needs an earthquake, and this is it. It certainly ain't UKRAP!
You won't have border checks to go to Scotland if they do become independent, how ridiculous.
Why is it, Scotland will be a separate country and you will need to have a way of entering and leaving you cannot just go into another country especially if they are not in Europe and we are.
I will be sad. We've stood together for years and the United Kingdom has proved to be rather successful.
I think dividing is pointless and silly, but it's not up to me. And if they don't get 'yes' this time, they'll keep on until they do.
So, well, bye and good luck. As long as the rest of the UK doesn't have to prop them up at the same time, I'm fine with it.
It's all the court cases and constant arguments that will start, Scotland going "we not paying for this", Westminster "you owe this", that's all it will become backbiting between the two for years to come.
Everything that goes wrong in Scotland will be Westminster's fault, everything that goes wrong in UK will be Scotland's fault for leaving.
It will be a nightmare to be honest as it is with most countries that are joined and share a border.
It's all the court cases and constant arguments that will start, Scotland going "we not paying for this", Westminster "you owe this", that's all it will become backbiting between the two for years to come.
Everything that goes wrong in Scotland will be Westminster's fault, everything that goes wrong in UK will be Scotland's fault for leaving.
It will be a nightmare to be honest as it is with most countries that are joined and share a border.
Pain in the arse, all of it.
I don't honestly think that the rest of the UK will be doing masses of blaming though.
The other way around is de rigeur though, but we'll see.
I don't honestly think that the rest of the UK will be doing masses of blaming though.
The other way around is de rigeur though, but we'll see.
I just want both nations to get on with it.
Interesting scenario could be if Labour got in in Scotland and rest of UK would they work together.
The split is worse of course for Labour as rest of UK would vote Conservative and Scotland would vote SNP whereas in the current set up Labour can govern both if the opinion polls for general election for 2015 are right.
Therefore Labour are the biggest losers in all this, not the Tories or SNP.
Interesting scenario could be if Labour got in in Scotland and rest of UK would they work together.
The split is worse of course for Labour as rest of UK would vote Conservative and Scotland would vote SNP whereas in the current set up Labour can govern both if the opinion polls for general election for 2015 are right.
Therefore Labour are the biggest losers in all this, not the Tories or SNP.
Not good, not that Labour are much better than the Tories, that's wrong, anything is better than the Tory's at the moment.
Perhaps England, Wales and NI will get their flamin' acts together. We can hope.
We can't change what will happen, and we'll ALL have to endure the consequences.
And, as I've said, I think it's a bloody shame for all of us personally, but there you go.
They've been under the dictatorship of Westminster-based Conservative governments that they would NEVER elect for years.
They must feel like there's no such thing as democracy most of the time.
Scotland never gets the government it voted for because the SNP don't field candidates in England and Wales.
Next years general election will be Labour if it's a NO and Conservative if it's a yes, most Scottish people are SNP voters at the moment so how can they ever get a government they vote for if they vote SNP in a UK election, voting SNP in a UK election is a waste of a vote as they can't govern unless the go into coalition.
To turn things around England and Wales never get the government they vote for a lot of the time as a majority of England is conservative and it is Scotland who vote Labour so if Labour got in next year it would be the Scottish votes that caused it therefore England would not get who they voted for.
Why is it, Scotland will be a separate country and you will need to have a way of entering and leaving you cannot just go into another country especially if they are not in Europe and we are.
oh dear. You're not very widely travelled, are you? Ever crossed the border between Belgium or France? Or Germany and Austria? Or Sweden and Norway? It's not all watch towers and minefields, you know.
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Why? She produces fine caviar!
If Scottish people want to be Scottish, rather than British, why shouldn't they just be Scottish citizens?
I have a feeling some of the YES voters don't actually know what the word Independence means. Scotland will be a foreign country.
Fantastic post!
I'm pretty sure Scotland will do fine as an independent country, but you would have to be insane not to realise the average Scot will be substantially worse off, at least in the short term. A combination of business relocation (some financial and research businesses will HAVE to relocate, even if other business are just bluffing), loss of various funding, cost of of setting up new institutions, removal of subsidies from businesses like supermarkets, general increased cost of borrowing, and lots of other things too. That's before you even get to the all the expensive promises Salmond has made.
It may be a price worth paying for independence, but at least go in with your eyes open.
I suspect a lot of people outside of Scotland thought the decision would be an obvious and clear No and they are now for the first time asking themselves - ooh, what does this really mean for me, then?
If I recall correctly the early polls in the rest of the UK suggested that there was actually a slightly higher percentage in favour of separation there than in Scotland itself.
How things have changed as the referendum date has approached.
Perhaps that will focus minds within the rest of the UK on where we should all turn next. And that can only be a good thing.
Might turn out to be a referendum for one country that eventually benefits four.
I fully agree. Our democracy needs an earthquake, and this is it. It certainly ain't UKRAP!
Why is it, Scotland will be a separate country and you will need to have a way of entering and leaving you cannot just go into another country especially if they are not in Europe and we are.
I do too, but that's not what an Independent Scotland is all about
Well if you vote yes you kick Labour in the goolies, so that only leaves the SNP to vote for and what will the SNP stand for if they get a yes?
would the scots vote yes then in an election vote for Labour who want a union?
I think dividing is pointless and silly, but it's not up to me. And if they don't get 'yes' this time, they'll keep on until they do.
So, well, bye and good luck. As long as the rest of the UK doesn't have to prop them up at the same time, I'm fine with it.
It's all the court cases and constant arguments that will start, Scotland going "we not paying for this", Westminster "you owe this", that's all it will become backbiting between the two for years to come.
Everything that goes wrong in Scotland will be Westminster's fault, everything that goes wrong in UK will be Scotland's fault for leaving.
It will be a nightmare to be honest as it is with most countries that are joined and share a border.
Pain in the arse, all of it.
I don't honestly think that the rest of the UK will be doing masses of blaming though.
The other way around is de rigeur though, but we'll see.
I just want both nations to get on with it.
Interesting scenario could be if Labour got in in Scotland and rest of UK would they work together.
The split is worse of course for Labour as rest of UK would vote Conservative and Scotland would vote SNP whereas in the current set up Labour can govern both if the opinion polls for general election for 2015 are right.
Therefore Labour are the biggest losers in all this, not the Tories or SNP.
They've been under the dictatorship of Westminster-based Conservative governments that they would NEVER elect for years.
They must feel like there's no such thing as democracy most of the time.
Not good, not that Labour are much better than the Tories, that's wrong, anything is better than the Tory's at the moment.
Perhaps England, Wales and NI will get their flamin' acts together. We can hope.
We can't change what will happen, and we'll ALL have to endure the consequences.
And, as I've said, I think it's a bloody shame for all of us personally, but there you go.
Scotland never gets the government it voted for because the SNP don't field candidates in England and Wales.
Next years general election will be Labour if it's a NO and Conservative if it's a yes, most Scottish people are SNP voters at the moment so how can they ever get a government they vote for if they vote SNP in a UK election, voting SNP in a UK election is a waste of a vote as they can't govern unless the go into coalition.
Feels like that in lots of England too. Price of having a country and a democracy, basically.
hmm countries rich in oil tend not to do the starving thing, Einstein
oh dear. You're not very widely travelled, are you? Ever crossed the border between Belgium or France? Or Germany and Austria? Or Sweden and Norway? It's not all watch towers and minefields, you know.
*Qatar looks around nervously*
Will only take a Piper Alpha incident to sort that out and reduce the income.