There is no way that Jesus and Mohammed preached hate and murder.
These Holy books were added to by those who wanted to control the masses for their own power and just used these Teachers names to do so. It's an abuse of the massess by the wealthy and powerful... ).
How can you pretend to know what they did or didn't preach when you claim texts associated with them are fake or distorted?
How can you pretend to know what they did or didn't preach when you claim texts associated with them are fake or distorted?
Because a Teacher who is preaching peace in one hand and then has hate attributed to them does not make any sense.
And it is well known by those Scholars who have investigated old Holy writings in the 20th century, that the works have been interferred with and are not in original form. They have found some of the old writings. I read about this years ago from library books.
All fictional works of literature are open to interpretation by the reader.
Islamists obviously act like they do because of how they interpret the Quran and other religious texts.
Other muslims may interpret it a different way, but that doesn't mean the Islamists are wrong.
brcause people are all good or all bad? That makes more sense to you!
And if it dies how do you know. Which was faked the peaceful texts or the hate filled ones...
Well, your post doesn't make any sense to me at all.
If it is found that a writing was changed or added to, it doesn't then mean that the original was all good or all bad.
My original point is, the powerful and wealthy changed and added to original writings to control the masses. As it is, it can still be seen that these books are written in symbolic form which the people in general of those days didn't understand.
Most of them couldn't read or write, but, would be preached to from these Holy books. And to then add to these books down the years was to control the massess.
The Qur'an is somewhat explicit in describing how a Muslim is expected to treat a non Muslim (Unbeliever) and the reward he will get in `Paradise`
That to me is symbolic. Not to be taken litterally.
Look at the meaning behind the words.
The term Muslim could mean people in general or just a label. Afterall, centuries ago, people thought where they resided was their world and nothing existed outside of it or country. So, that would be their language as they did not speak any other language or know of any different belief.
Then, with their belief in their God which to them is the only God and therefore, anyone who did not believe in God was bad as God was telling them to be good.
With that, this belief in God which preaches goodness one had only to believe and that would be Paradise or, that this belief would bring them to Paradise when they died for being good.
It's the interpreting to suit an agenda for power like terrorism that makes it look so wrong.
The Qur'an is somewhat explicit in describing how a Muslim is expected to treat a non Muslim (Unbeliever) and the reward he will get in `Paradise`
Oh, FFS. It does nothing of the sort.
Nice to see a measured critical comment from someone who has spent some time reading it, instead of the Daily Mail potted version (unabridged).
Islam is around 600 years younger than Christianity. Go back into Christian history and you will find barbarism on a grand scale. Everything from stoning to death, decapitation, crucifixion and killing non believers. All supported by Biblical text.
No need for them to be barbaric as they are in the 21st century like the rest of us.
Or you could just read it. It's not exactly long. It should take all off a day, if that. Admittedly it is repetitive and poorly written but you could judge rage fir yourself.
Then when you pull up passages you would know the context especially if you also know the historical context .
I also didn't give an opinion I just provided some passages do people can see for themselves what the book says.
It was a rather ham-fisted attempt on my part to make a point in haste, so I certainly apologise if you took anything from it that I was having a moan at you.
The point sort of being that I do remember reading a few articles some time ago about the often used quote by those with "concerns" about Islam that the Qu'ran tells Muslims to "kill all infidels". Each piece provided a detailed explanation of each passage with the context of how it was supposed to be interpreted and it was quite fascinating.
So with relation to the OP's question, it does and it doesn't. It does if you take the wholly distorted version and it doesn't if you take it how it's meant to be understood.
No need for them to be barbaric as they are in the 21st century like the rest of us.
I didn't say there was. Any Religion has been notoriously slow at adapting to real life and mainstream thinking in any century. Islam also doesn't have a spiritual leader.
No need for them to be barbaric as they are in the 21st century like the rest of us.
Yes.
Unfortunately they have a cult that's chosen to run at 500 - 900 years behind - like Civil War re-enacters, but with tanks nicked from the Iraqi army and big knives to chop off heads. The Quran is used as their instruction manual.
It was a rather ham-fisted attempt on my part to make a point in haste, so I certainly apologise if you took anything from it that I was having a moan at you.
The point sort of being that I do remember reading a few articles some time ago about the often used quote by those with "concerns" about Islam that the Qu'ran tells Muslims to "kill all infidels". Each piece provided a detailed explanation of each passage with the context of how it was supposed to be interpreted and it was quite fascinating.
So with relation to the OP's question, it does and it doesn't. It does if you take the wholly distorted version and it doesn't if you take it how it's meant to be understood.
but it's all opinion and interpretation
there is no absolute "wholly distorted version" or "meant to be understood"
some people simply want to interprete it in one way and go to great lengths to insist that one 'version' is correct - it simply isn't so.
Does it have animated gif avatars and facepalm smilies?
Or a 'like' button so a scribe scutttles out from the spine and marks the relevant passage with a big green tick?
Well no lol
Seriously though, to the OP, don't judge the Quran on action of ISIS or Muslims for that matter. Read it for yourself and judge. If I was you, I would take Arabic version along with best 3/4 translated versions and set aside time to study it and make notes. I call itthe 'Lesley Hazleton' route. (For those who do know Lesley Hazleton is an Agnostic Jewish Comedian).
"When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them."
Qu'ran advocates beheading, chopping off fingers of unbelievers(non-Muslims).
" And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers."
Inspiration for IS to kill anyone, anywhere with no regard for life. It doesn't state when or where to stop.
"And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old. Allah (Himself) fighteth against them. How perverse are they"
Hatred against Jews and Christians aka People of the Book. Allah the Islamic God is fighting against them(Jews and Christians) because they have different beliefs which makes them perverse.
The Qua'ran is the 'unerring word of Allah' and can not be changed or challenged.
It must be remembered the Prophet Muhammad used to marry 6 year old girls and consummate the marriage when they were 9 year, he also used women as slaves and used his newly created religion to wage war in Arabia.
Islam also claims that Jesus called for Holy War/Jihad and that Muhammad was the final prophet despite the fact he was not related to the line of Abraham.
The story goes that Muhammad was tricked by the Devil to include lines in the Qur'an where the New Testament has different occasions in which Jesus resisted temptation because he knew it was Satan trying to cause his fall from grace. Given Islam's violence against unbelievers then some scholars have questioned the divinity of Islam as Muhammad to the stories could not tell the difference between angels and demons.
There is theories that he suffered from Epilepsy or seizures which affected his mental captivity.
"When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them."
Qu'ran advocates beheading, chopping off fingers of unbelievers(non-Muslims).
" And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers."
Inspiration for IS to kill anyone, anywhere with no regard for life. It doesn't state when or where to stop.
"And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old. Allah (Himself) fighteth against them. How perverse are they"
Hatred against Jews and Christians aka People of the Book. Allah the Islamic God is fighting against them(Jews and Christians) because they have different beliefs which makes them perverse.
The Qua'ran is the 'unerring word of Allah' and can not be changed or challenged.
It must be remembered the Prophet Muhammad used to marry 6 year old girls and consummate the marriage when they were 9 year, he also used women as slaves and used his newly created religion to wage war in Arabia.
Islam also claims that Jesus called for Holy War/Jihad and that Muhammad was the final prophet despite the fact he was not related to the line of Abraham.
The story goes that Muhammad was tricked by the Devil to include lines in the Qur'an where the New Testament has different occasions in which Jesus resisted temptation because he knew it was Satan trying to cause his fall from grace. Given Islam's violence against unbelievers then some scholars have questioned the divinity of Islam as Muhammad to the stories could not tell the difference between angels and demons.
There is theories that he suffered from Epilepsy or seizures which affected his mental captivity.
Thankfully, like Christians and Jews and the equal horrors of the Bible not all Muslims are fundamentalists
Mohammed, himself set a rather bloody example an' all.
In what way?
Don't forget to balance the (restrained) result of the battle of Medina with normal practice at the time, and take into account the enlightened view introduced after.
We can wait ...
Comments
Because a Teacher who is preaching peace in one hand and then has hate attributed to them does not make any sense.
And it is well known by those Scholars who have investigated old Holy writings in the 20th century, that the works have been interferred with and are not in original form. They have found some of the old writings. I read about this years ago from library books.
And if it dies how do you know. Which was faked the peaceful texts or the hate filled ones...
Islamists obviously act like they do because of how they interpret the Quran and other religious texts.
Other muslims may interpret it a different way, but that doesn't mean the Islamists are wrong.
Why not read the Quran yourself and be enlightened
Well, your post doesn't make any sense to me at all.
If it is found that a writing was changed or added to, it doesn't then mean that the original was all good or all bad.
My original point is, the powerful and wealthy changed and added to original writings to control the masses. As it is, it can still be seen that these books are written in symbolic form which the people in general of those days didn't understand.
Most of them couldn't read or write, but, would be preached to from these Holy books. And to then add to these books down the years was to control the massess.
The Qur'an is somewhat explicit in describing how a Muslim is expected to treat a non Muslim (Unbeliever) and the reward he will get in `Paradise`
That to me is symbolic. Not to be taken litterally.
Look at the meaning behind the words.
The term Muslim could mean people in general or just a label. Afterall, centuries ago, people thought where they resided was their world and nothing existed outside of it or country. So, that would be their language as they did not speak any other language or know of any different belief.
Then, with their belief in their God which to them is the only God and therefore, anyone who did not believe in God was bad as God was telling them to be good.
With that, this belief in God which preaches goodness one had only to believe and that would be Paradise or, that this belief would bring them to Paradise when they died for being good.
It's the interpreting to suit an agenda for power like terrorism that makes it look so wrong.
Hmm, does that make sense?
Nice to see a measured critical comment from someone who has spent some time reading it, instead of the Daily Mail potted version (unabridged).
No need for them to be barbaric as they are in the 21st century like the rest of us.
Heh,
I was just about to say something very similar about the quran.
It was a rather ham-fisted attempt on my part to make a point in haste, so I certainly apologise if you took anything from it that I was having a moan at you.
The point sort of being that I do remember reading a few articles some time ago about the often used quote by those with "concerns" about Islam that the Qu'ran tells Muslims to "kill all infidels". Each piece provided a detailed explanation of each passage with the context of how it was supposed to be interpreted and it was quite fascinating.
So with relation to the OP's question, it does and it doesn't. It does if you take the wholly distorted version and it doesn't if you take it how it's meant to be understood.
I didn't say there was. Any Religion has been notoriously slow at adapting to real life and mainstream thinking in any century. Islam also doesn't have a spiritual leader.
Mmm! And the Bible?
Unfortunately they have a cult that's chosen to run at 500 - 900 years behind - like Civil War re-enacters, but with tanks nicked from the Iraqi army and big knives to chop off heads. The Quran is used as their instruction manual.
but it's all opinion and interpretation
there is no absolute "wholly distorted version" or "meant to be understood"
some people simply want to interprete it in one way and go to great lengths to insist that one 'version' is correct - it simply isn't so.
Seriously though, to the OP, don't judge the Quran on action of ISIS or Muslims for that matter. Read it for yourself and judge. If I was you, I would take Arabic version along with best 3/4 translated versions and set aside time to study it and make notes. I call itthe 'Lesley Hazleton' route. (For those who do know Lesley Hazleton is an Agnostic Jewish Comedian).
"When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them."
Qu'ran advocates beheading, chopping off fingers of unbelievers(non-Muslims).
" And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers."
Inspiration for IS to kill anyone, anywhere with no regard for life. It doesn't state when or where to stop.
"And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old. Allah (Himself) fighteth against them. How perverse are they"
Hatred against Jews and Christians aka People of the Book. Allah the Islamic God is fighting against them(Jews and Christians) because they have different beliefs which makes them perverse.
The Qua'ran is the 'unerring word of Allah' and can not be changed or challenged.
It must be remembered the Prophet Muhammad used to marry 6 year old girls and consummate the marriage when they were 9 year, he also used women as slaves and used his newly created religion to wage war in Arabia.
Islam also claims that Jesus called for Holy War/Jihad and that Muhammad was the final prophet despite the fact he was not related to the line of Abraham.
The story goes that Muhammad was tricked by the Devil to include lines in the Qur'an where the New Testament has different occasions in which Jesus resisted temptation because he knew it was Satan trying to cause his fall from grace. Given Islam's violence against unbelievers then some scholars have questioned the divinity of Islam as Muhammad to the stories could not tell the difference between angels and demons.
There is theories that he suffered from Epilepsy or seizures which affected his mental captivity.
i do agree. people will interpret it for their own ends regardless.
Thankfully, like Christians and Jews and the equal horrors of the Bible not all Muslims are fundamentalists
A rather large proportion are though, and they don't just 'Qu'ran thump' and say outrageous things.
That's the problem.
Don't forget to balance the (restrained) result of the battle of Medina with normal practice at the time, and take into account the enlightened view introduced after.
We can wait ...