Writers like him should be happy DW attracted writers of the prestige of RTD and SM. As much as I wasn't a fan of RTD's era, it's clearly a good thing that writers of that quality are writing shows for kids. Who knows, the next generation of TV writers might just be inspired by people who know what they're doing penning stuff for them.
No instead they will call him a miserable sod for his views on the X Factor instead and totally ignore that part of the article.;)
Being a miserable sod is something to aspire to in certain parts of the North Country
(Only kidding, in case anyone takes me seriously ).
I am delighted with CE's remarks and am happy to take back any criticism I made of his previous reported remarks. In my defence, I did say in my posts that we didn't know the true nature of his remarks, only what was reported.
It is a British tradition - and not a very laudable one - to knock anything that is successful. It is as if we assume that if something is doing well it appeals to the ignorant masses and cannot, therefore, be any good. That also suggests that the ignorant masses, of whom I am one, are all incapable of distinguishing between quality and rubbish. I have two friends, both highly intelligent, excellent people, who epitomise this. They absolutely refuse to watch anything popular on the assumption that it cannot be good in its own right.
Shakespeare is generally accepted as our greatest ever writer, yet his output was far more varied than Jimmy McGovern's, including light comedies and even what could be construed as a musical along with 'King Lear' and 'Hamlet'.
So your saying that Chris isn't allowed to view his time on the show in the same context as, say, Cracker? See we are back to this sense of entitlement fandom has again, anyone who doesn't see the show as being as special as we do is wrong somehow.
Obviously Chris can view his time on the show in any way he likes. I'm just saying that Who fans will take their own view, and Chris can't change that.
I think you may be reading into my posts thoughts that aren't really there. I'm not saying that Chris shouldn't be able to leave the part in the past if he wants to, just recognising the fact that many others won't want to leave it there.
From what others have posted, it does sound as if this doesn't trouble him as much as the earlier comments seemed to suggest, so maybe it's a matter of him coming across as a bit more resentful of the show than he really is. All the same, I'd wager that he wouldn't be up for revisiting the part in any "Three Doctors" or "Five Doctors" style extravaganza.
It is a British tradition - and not a very laudable one - to knock anything that is successful. It is as if we assume that if something is doing well it appeals to the ignorant masses and cannot, therefore, be any good. That also suggests that the ignorant masses, of whom I am one, are all incapable of distinguishing between quality and rubbish. I have two friends, both highly intelligent, excellent people, who epitomise this. They absolutely refuse to watch anything popular on the assumption that it cannot be good in its own right.
Shakespeare is generally accepted as our greatest ever writer, yet his output was far more varied than Jimmy McGovern's, including light comedies and even what could be construed as a musical along with 'King Lear' and 'Hamlet'.
Shakespeare also wrote for the masses as well as for Queen Elizabeth and in his own time was something of a people's poet - only now do academics deify him and try and pretend that he is too highbrow for the commoners to enjoy let alone understand.
On the subject of Chris Eccleston, incidentally, I find it interesting that those criticising him for not looking back at his time in DW with anything but indifference appear to have conveniently forgotten the very public way "favourite Doctor" Tom Baker trashed all things Who on leaving, ruining The Five Doctors in the process and leaving us with the farcical promo image of the four Doctors and a Waxwork...a few decades on and that has all been conveniently airbrushed out of History in favour of a far more rose-tinted recollection of a Who actor. What is so wrong with CE just considering his time on Who as just another acting job? After all, in reality that's all it was.
On the subject of Chris Eccleston, incidentally, I find it interesting that those criticising him for not looking back at his time in DW with anything but indifference appear to have conveniently forgotten the very public way "favourite Doctor" Tom Baker trashed all things Who on leaving, ruining The Five Doctors in the process and leaving us with the farcical promo image of the four Doctors and a Waxwork...a few decades on and that has all been conveniently airbrushed out of History in favour of a far more rose-tinted recollection of a Who actor. What is so wrong with CE just considering his time on Who as just another acting job? After all, in reality that's all it was.
I feel I should point out that I did mention Tom Baker's earlier attitude towards the show in the years after he left.
so maybe it's a matter of him coming across as a bit more resentful of the show than he really is.
or maybe it's a matter of certain forum members using any excuse to have a cheap shot at a man they resent for not loving the show as much as they do, cause frankly there was really nothing in what he said to suggest he "resented" the show, just that he had moved on from it.
Good for Chris for speaking out so well about his time on the show. Just a pity that sometimes and it is only sometimes, he comes across as a bit anti Who
Interestin reaction about moaner McGoverns latest series here - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-11764240
Good for Chris for speaking out so well about his time on the show. Just a pity that sometimes and it is only sometimes, he comes across as a bit anti Who
Interestin reaction about moaner McGoverns latest series here - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-11764240
That is interesting as he had previously stated drama should be based on reality but as soon as he gets criticised for being inaccurate he defends himself by saying it's only a work of fiction. Pathetic.
Slightly off-topic, but I agree with Eccleston about
the X-Factor:
"It's cheap, ritualised humiliation, celebrates total mediocrity and encourages sneering at people....It puts the emphasis on being famous rather then being good.... stuff like The X Factor is really depressing. Watching television should be about bettering yourself, shouldn't it?"
Even though Eccleston isn't a DW fan, he's right-there was a tradition of great UK TV "about bettering yourself" that Doctor Who belonged to.
I used to go to the library to find out about stuff like Marco Polo and dinosaurs after seeing them in DW stories. Today's children are inspired to start drawing or telling
stories or even look up stuff about Vincent van Gogh or astronomy, after watching "Doctor Who".
By contrast, how could stuff like the "X Factor" or "I'm a Celebrity" inspire people to do anything other than get their
faces on TV?
Slightly off-topic, but I agree with Eccleston about
the X-Factor:
Even though Eccleston isn't a DW fan, he's right-there was a tradition of great UK TV "about bettering yourself" that Doctor Who belonged to.
I used to go to the library to find out about stuff like Marco Polo and dinosaurs after seeing them in DW stories. Today's children are inspired to start drawing or telling
stories or even look up stuff about Vincent van Gogh or astronomy, after watching "Doctor Who".
By contrast, how could stuff like the "X Factor" or "I'm a Celebrity" inspire people to do anything other than get their
faces on TV?
That's exactly why I maintain SJA should remain a CBBC show first and foremost rather than shift to a BBC1 family slot on say a Saturday or Sunday evening: kids need quality programming to inspire them too and not necessarily programming they want to watch with the rest of the family.
Slightly off-topic, but I agree with Eccleston about
the X-Factor:
Even though Eccleston isn't a DW fan, he's right-there was a tradition of great UK TV "about bettering yourself" that Doctor Who belonged to.
I used to go to the library to find out about stuff like Marco Polo and dinosaurs after seeing them in DW stories. Today's children are inspired to start drawing or telling
stories or even look up stuff about Vincent van Gogh or astronomy, after watching "Doctor Who".
By contrast, how could stuff like the "X Factor" or "I'm a Celebrity" inspire people to do anything other than get their
faces on TV?
There's room for all sorts of TV, I don't need people like Ecclestone telling me what I can and cannot watch.
There's room for all sorts of TV, I don't need people like Ecclestone telling me what I can and cannot watch.
I agree, I watch both the programmes mentioned and I shan't stop watching them just because CE or anyone else tells me it's better if I watched something else. Like all programmes it's down to personal choice. I don't watch cookery programmes but I'd never criticise anyone who does....:)
or maybe it's a matter of certain forum members using any excuse to have a cheap shot at a man they resent for not loving the show as much as they do, cause frankly there was really nothing in what he said to suggest he "resented" the show, just that he had moved on from it.
If that criticism is aimed at me, you're wholly wrong. I don't resent Chris at all; I was merely remarking that from his comments he did seem to resent the show. At no time did I suggest that I had any problem with him feeling that way. As his other remarks, quoted here, seem to paint a different picture I accept that his words came over differently from how he'd intended - as, ironically, mine seem also to have done!
DThere's a separate Thread for this but it's very relevant here to: Richard Curtis' "Vincent and the Doctor" has been nominated for a MIND Award for the handling of mental health issues alongside (amongst others) "The Street" by Jimmy McGovern...I'd say that puts the two shows on a par on at least one level, wouldn't you Jim?
I see that McGovern has come in for some stick in todays (Sunday) papers about his anti-armed forces viewsas shown in this latest series of his. As usual the BBc are sticking by him and we all know that they are not biased in any way !
What?! How can that be, when something he created is one of the nominees!? (I'm not sure if he actually wrote the episode of The Street that's up for judgment, but that would make it even worse.) That's very disappointing.
Slightly off-topic, but I agree with Eccleston about
the X-Factor:
Even though Eccleston isn't a DW fan, he's right-there was a tradition of great UK TV "about bettering yourself" that Doctor Who belonged to.
I used to go to the library to find out about stuff like Marco Polo and dinosaurs after seeing them in DW stories. Today's children are inspired to start drawing or telling
stories or even look up stuff about Vincent van Gogh or astronomy, after watching "Doctor Who".
By contrast, how could stuff like the "X Factor" or "I'm a Celebrity" inspire people to do anything other than get their
faces on TV?
Funny, I remember when Simon Carroll threw his toys out of a pram live on air because Sting stated that he didn't like the XF, and Gordon Summer was far more dipplomatic than Chrissy . Many musicians have slagged it off, so maybe Mr Carroll takes no notice of an actor who doesn't like it. Bono said that these shows remind him of the old variety shows where you have The Rolling Stones, followed by The Beatles doing a performance, so I take it that he's never watched The X Factor!
Well I used to watch The X Factor because I thought that by doing so I would learn about singing as well some music theory. However I quickly realised that unlike Strictly Come Dancing or Dancing On Ice, the XF judges don't really know enough about music or even singing on this level. After giving up on this dull, annoying and humiliating show, I decided to look in my library to research on singing and music theory instead. I have learnt about how different voices are better suited for different types of music, for example each of The Three Tenor's voices varied according to range, volume, tone, flexibility, etc. I also learned about breathing skills, phrase placement, correct use of microphones, communication skills, different vocal techniques, tonal varieties and unique ways of singing that some of the best popular singers have used that were unheard before.
So when I heard a member of The XF audience saying that maybe they'll find someone like Aretha Franklin or Sinatra, I got very frustrated because these are two of the most creative types of singers we've heard. No one sang like Aretha or Frank before because they were unique and now all the youngsters want to do is copy Whitney Houstan!
"The only way to tell stories on TV is to convince people that what they are seeing is actually happening now and is real. I just can't handle the tongue-in-cheek approach, the kind of thing you see on Doctor Who."
That seems extremely literal minded. I intend no disrespect when I ask whether Jimmy has an ASD? It's an honest question.
You realise you're replying to a 4 year old thread don't you?
It sucked me in. I read the entire first page before I realised it was an old thread!
X-Factor is certainly off-topic but I suppose it can be excused because it's an Eccleston opinion
To suggest that X-Factor doesn't inspire people to better themselves seems a bit odd, to me. It's one of the most inspirational shows going in terms of inspiring people to try to make a go of turning their passion for music into a career. It's whole message is that hard work and perseverance can allow you to realise your dreams.
Reality shows like I'm A Celeb can also inspire people. The successful contestants are almost invariably the ones who show courage, good-humour and selflessness in the face of adversity. There aren't many better messages, if you ask me.
I'm sorry but I couldn't resist bumping this thread after reading what Chrissy had to say about The XF. I've honestly been laughing all day about it all day! Normally Mr Carroll's usual response is the same as what he told Gordon Summer which is "why don't you come and be a mentor on the show". Would he said the same thing to Chrissy, who's not even a musician? People are entitled to their own like and dislikes, Mr Carroll. He's not even that much of a music genius
Another thread that tickled me was the one that follows:
Christopher Eccleston was definitely in a lose-lose situation in this interview. He respects Jimmy McGovern a LOT and is probably really grateful to have a role again through McGovern's writing that he feels is a contribution to society. And we've all heard the stories of how gracious and kind Eccleston has been to DW fans, especially children.
But here, I think Eccleston was aware of McGovern's previous comments about DW, and moreover, he was doing this interview to promote a McGovern project. There have been incidents in the past in which Eccleston was treated very badly by the press when he was promoting a project and tried to keep questions on the topic, so I think he was trying to be diplomatic and at the same time end the DW questions because talking about DW (which at any rate, was not the greatest experience for him in his life, to put it mildly) would really put him in the doghouse with McGovern.
He's never been really comfortable with interviews, and I feel badly for him, because no matter what he said in the interview he would end up in the bad graces of one side or the other. Let's give him a break, eh?
Do you think that he asked McGovern's permission if he could not only go on DW, but star as the lead? What do you think McGovern thought during the time? Yet more questions to ponder over
Comments
Writers like him should be happy DW attracted writers of the prestige of RTD and SM. As much as I wasn't a fan of RTD's era, it's clearly a good thing that writers of that quality are writing shows for kids. Who knows, the next generation of TV writers might just be inspired by people who know what they're doing penning stuff for them.
Being a miserable sod is something to aspire to in certain parts of the North Country
(Only kidding, in case anyone takes me seriously
I am delighted with CE's remarks and am happy to take back any criticism I made of his previous reported remarks. In my defence, I did say in my posts that we didn't know the true nature of his remarks, only what was reported.
Shakespeare is generally accepted as our greatest ever writer, yet his output was far more varied than Jimmy McGovern's, including light comedies and even what could be construed as a musical along with 'King Lear' and 'Hamlet'.
Obviously Chris can view his time on the show in any way he likes. I'm just saying that Who fans will take their own view, and Chris can't change that.
I think you may be reading into my posts thoughts that aren't really there. I'm not saying that Chris shouldn't be able to leave the part in the past if he wants to, just recognising the fact that many others won't want to leave it there.
From what others have posted, it does sound as if this doesn't trouble him as much as the earlier comments seemed to suggest, so maybe it's a matter of him coming across as a bit more resentful of the show than he really is. All the same, I'd wager that he wouldn't be up for revisiting the part in any "Three Doctors" or "Five Doctors" style extravaganza.
Shakespeare also wrote for the masses as well as for Queen Elizabeth and in his own time was something of a people's poet - only now do academics deify him and try and pretend that he is too highbrow for the commoners to enjoy let alone understand.
On the subject of Chris Eccleston, incidentally, I find it interesting that those criticising him for not looking back at his time in DW with anything but indifference appear to have conveniently forgotten the very public way "favourite Doctor" Tom Baker trashed all things Who on leaving, ruining The Five Doctors in the process and leaving us with the farcical promo image of the four Doctors and a Waxwork...a few decades on and that has all been conveniently airbrushed out of History in favour of a far more rose-tinted recollection of a Who actor. What is so wrong with CE just considering his time on Who as just another acting job? After all, in reality that's all it was.
I feel I should point out that I did mention Tom Baker's earlier attitude towards the show in the years after he left.
or maybe it's a matter of certain forum members using any excuse to have a cheap shot at a man they resent for not loving the show as much as they do, cause frankly there was really nothing in what he said to suggest he "resented" the show, just that he had moved on from it.
Interestin reaction about moaner McGoverns latest series here - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-11764240
That is interesting as he had previously stated drama should be based on reality but as soon as he gets criticised for being inaccurate he defends himself by saying it's only a work of fiction. Pathetic.
the X-Factor:
Even though Eccleston isn't a DW fan, he's right-there was a tradition of great UK TV "about bettering yourself" that Doctor Who belonged to.
I used to go to the library to find out about stuff like Marco Polo and dinosaurs after seeing them in DW stories. Today's children are inspired to start drawing or telling
stories or even look up stuff about Vincent van Gogh or astronomy, after watching "Doctor Who".
By contrast, how could stuff like the "X Factor" or "I'm a Celebrity" inspire people to do anything other than get their
faces on TV?
That's exactly why I maintain SJA should remain a CBBC show first and foremost rather than shift to a BBC1 family slot on say a Saturday or Sunday evening: kids need quality programming to inspire them too and not necessarily programming they want to watch with the rest of the family.
There's room for all sorts of TV, I don't need people like Ecclestone telling me what I can and cannot watch.
I agree, I watch both the programmes mentioned and I shan't stop watching them just because CE or anyone else tells me it's better if I watched something else. Like all programmes it's down to personal choice. I don't watch cookery programmes but I'd never criticise anyone who does....:)
I would have said this. You beat me to it .
If that criticism is aimed at me, you're wholly wrong. I don't resent Chris at all; I was merely remarking that from his comments he did seem to resent the show. At no time did I suggest that I had any problem with him feeling that way. As his other remarks, quoted here, seem to paint a different picture I accept that his words came over differently from how he'd intended - as, ironically, mine seem also to have done!
Funny, I remember when Simon Carroll threw his toys out of a pram live on air because Sting stated that he didn't like the XF, and Gordon Summer was far more dipplomatic than Chrissy
Well I used to watch The X Factor because I thought that by doing so I would learn about singing as well some music theory. However I quickly realised that unlike Strictly Come Dancing or Dancing On Ice, the XF judges don't really know enough about music or even singing on this level. After giving up on this dull, annoying and humiliating show, I decided to look in my library to research on singing and music theory instead. I have learnt about how different voices are better suited for different types of music, for example each of The Three Tenor's voices varied according to range, volume, tone, flexibility, etc. I also learned about breathing skills, phrase placement, correct use of microphones, communication skills, different vocal techniques, tonal varieties and unique ways of singing that some of the best popular singers have used that were unheard before.
So when I heard a member of The XF audience saying that maybe they'll find someone like Aretha Franklin or Sinatra, I got very frustrated because these are two of the most creative types of singers we've heard. No one sang like Aretha or Frank before because they were unique and now all the youngsters want to do is copy Whitney Houstan!
You realise you're replying to a 4 year old thread don't you?
That seems extremely literal minded. I intend no disrespect when I ask whether Jimmy has an ASD? It's an honest question.
It sucked me in. I read the entire first page before I realised it was an old thread!
X-Factor is certainly off-topic but I suppose it can be excused because it's an Eccleston opinion
To suggest that X-Factor doesn't inspire people to better themselves seems a bit odd, to me. It's one of the most inspirational shows going in terms of inspiring people to try to make a go of turning their passion for music into a career. It's whole message is that hard work and perseverance can allow you to realise your dreams.
Reality shows like I'm A Celeb can also inspire people. The successful contestants are almost invariably the ones who show courage, good-humour and selflessness in the face of adversity. There aren't many better messages, if you ask me.
Another thread that tickled me was the one that follows:
Do you think that he asked McGovern's permission if he could not only go on DW, but star as the lead? What do you think McGovern thought during the time?