LOL. That's a no. You understand that he won and beat Adam Lambert. I like them both actually, but can appreciate Kris' originality especially when he did that Kanye West song. Far from where Matt sits which showed especially on Come Together.
And Kris doesn't attack other artists, lie about sob stories, not arrogant, and respect others.
You understand that it gives you other deals and your marketability. LOL. Shows your versatility as an artist being able to do different projects. Doubt anyone would turn down a modeling contract from one of the world's largest modeling agency.
Whilst I agree with most of the rest of your post, the reasons for Kris' win are well evidenced if you know where to look or look hard enough (and no, it's nothing to do with Adam's sexuality - if that were the case, he would have been out of the competition long before the final - or with AT&T) and as for Kris' originality, how many rearrangements of songs did Adam perform before Kris did a version of Heartbreaker that was every bit as much based on the Fray's version as Matt's Baby One More Time was based on the Travis version?
Also, Kris didn't criticise his fellow contestants or previous winners but anyone who's ever ventured anywhere near his Twitter account will know he has made disrespectful remarks on several occasions.
Unreliable when struck by tonsilitis, flu and chest infection; otherwise 'absolutely bloody amazing'. IMO.:D But I know from past posts that we'll never agree given your dedicated dislike of Matt and differing tastes generally.:)
No, unreliable even when perfectly healthy. Matt only gave one performance throughout the whole competition that had no obvious bum notes (it wasn't perfect but it was as near to it as he got) and funnily enough it was in one of his ill weeks.
Do you think Syco will actually put some effort into promoting him and maybe give his image and direction a serious re-think, or will they continue to be as quiet as they was in 2010 and let him fade away?
I have a feeling he'll be dropped by the end of the year. It's a shame; very nice voice but just zero star quality. He was always going to fail, wasn't he?
Syco are in the business of making instant money, not developing careers, and whether part of Joe's problem is that they gave him cr*p material is irrelevant to them because he now has missed the big winner buzz, so he'll be dropped.
It is possible that he'll stay with Modest for a while, and that they'll find some work for him, like musical theatre.
Matt doesn't come close to Joe's vocal quality and Matt proved that himself with weak performances such as Come Together or Bleeding Love. Also, there are plenty of Matt out there as proven with Lee Dewyze, Andrew Garcia, etc. He doesn't even come close to Kris Allen level. Him having the look (LOL), but to each is there own - good luck on that modeling contract. Joe is clearly more of a popstar and a rare find. And the scientists can agree with me. Joe has a long future at only 19 compared to Matt at 28.
Yikes, I'm not even a particular Matt fan and I can see you've destroyed all credible argument by comparing him to those two. Lee - unable to complete one song in key/tune and without looking like someone was going to run on stage and shoot him (how on earth did he beat Crystal )and Garcia, possibly the most boring contestant ever seen on any singing show anywhere, a remarkable ability to suck the life out of everything he sang (apart from the Paula Abdul cover which was clearly the only thing he could do).
Matt might not be to your taste, but he was clearly better then either of those two (not commenting on Kris as that season bored me, didn't like any of the finalists and I drifted away quite early, but I did find his album quite bland after a quick listen).
Joe I did like, nice voice, didn't like what I heard of his album, but with decent management and the right tracks I still think there's a viable music career for him - won't comment on muscial theatre as I'm not a fan so don't really know if Joe has what it takes to make it there.
Yikes, I'm not even a particular Matt fan and I can see you've destroyed all credible argument by comparing him to those two. Lee - unable to complete one song in key/tune and without looking like someone was going to run on stage and shoot him (how on earth did he beat Crystal )and Garcia, possibly the most boring contestant ever seen on any singing show anywhere, a remarkable ability to suck the life out of everything he sang (apart from the Paula Abdul cover which was clearly the only thing he could do).
Matt might not be to your taste, but he was clearly better then either of those two (not commenting on Kris as that season bored me, didn't like any of the finalists and I drifted away quite early, but I did find his album quite bland after a quick listen).
Joe I did like, nice voice, didn't like what I heard of his album, but with decent management and the right tracks I still think there's a viable music career for him - won't comment on muscial theatre as I'm not a fan so don't really know if Joe has what it takes to make it there.
With all due respect, Lee and Andrew might not be to your taste but it is your opinion that Matt is better than them.
Season 8 is widely recognised by viewers, followers and those involved with the show as having the greatest strength in depth of any of the seasons since the start. How that could have bored you is beyond me.
As for Joe, I can understand why his album took the direction it did, even if it was for the wrong reasons and even if in hindsight it was too far a departure from what he did on the show.
With all due respect, Lee and Andrew might not be to your taste but it is your opinion that Matt is better than them.
Season 8 is widely recognised by viewers, followers and those involved with the show as having the greatest strength in depth of any of the seasons since the start. How that could have bored you is beyond me.
As for Joe, I can understand why his album took the direction it did, even if it was for the wrong reasons and even if in hindsight it was too far a departure from what he did on the show.
Lee was consistantly out of key and look very uncomfortable on stage, Matt did have some decent performances, and Andrew wasn't boring on every performance bar Straight Up? Please point me in the direction of something he did on the show that wasn't coma inducing
Season 8 greatest depth and strength, and widely recongnised as such? I think just about anyone who's a particular fan of someone off a particular series of Idol will always argue their season was the strongest, I'd equally argue AI7 was far stronger
Matt might not be to your taste, but he was clearly better then either of those two (not commenting on Kris as that season bored me, didn't like any of the finalists and I drifted away quite early, but I did find his album quite bland after a quick listen).
The American Idol Season 8 might have bored you. But that season is one of the best seasons for many music fans in the US, the UK, and the other countries.
Joe is a nice guy and a very talented singer. I think he needs better songs to sing, the support of the radio stations, and a stronger image. I wish him all the best.
Lee was consistantly out of key and look very uncomfortable on stage, Matt did have some decent performances, and Andrew wasn't boring on every performance bar Straight Up? Please point me in the direction of something he did on the show that wasn't coma inducing
Season 8 greatest depth and strength, and widely recongnised as such? I think just about anyone who's a particular fan of someone off a particular series of Idol will always argue their season was the strongest, I'd equally argue AI7 was far stronger
Lee hit bum notes but Matt had more than his fair share of them. Andrew may not have set the stage on fire but vocally he was better than the pair of them.
Regardless of contestant preferences, season 8 is widely regarded as the strongest in overall talent. There wasn't a contestant in the top 12 that wouldn't have been in the top 12 in any other year and there were five or six contestants in it who could have won most of the other years. With the exception of the two Davids, there was very little to write home about in season 7.
Lee hit bum notes but Matt had more than his fair share of them. Andrew may not have set the stage on fire but vocally he was better than the pair of them.
Regardless of contestant preferences, season 8 is widely regarded as the strongest in overall talent. There wasn't a contestant in the top 12 that wouldn't have been in the top 12 in any other year and there were five or six contestants in it who could have won most of the other years. With the exception of the two Davids, there was very little to write home about in season 7.
LOL, no, it's not, it depends who is asked. Adam is great, but for me he single handedly made the season interesting, the others were boring.
Season 7 had Cook, but I also liked Jason , Brooke , Michael and Carly, so for me season 7 wins.
I don't know what it has to do with Joe though, or even what Matt has to do with what will happen to Joe in 2011:rolleyes:
Ok, reading this thread really has the potential to anger me, so there are some things I need to get off my chest:
1. West End/Musical theatre is NOT as second-rate career path that recording artists can waltz into when they fail. What qualifies Joe for it?? Judging by his music videos, his acting skills are limited; judging by his performances he is a very able singer, but not one who can convey the emotions and command the audience with the incredible stage presence required in this profession.
Totally agree - like you I'm sick of people saying - oh he will go into the West End. Ironically the things that make Joe a failure as a pop star would also count against him becoming a musical star - an inability to emote, to interpret the lyrics or show any change in facial expression whatsoever. (What price a Joseph who grinned blandly throughout the whole show even when he was being sold into slavery, whatever ). No harm to the lad but I'm not remotely surprised he flopped. Truth is I don't remember a single Joe performance as I used to tune out after the first few notes, and would find myself forgetting who he was while he was still on stage. Far from having the X Factor Joe is the perfect example of someone who can sing but doesn't have it ...
Totally agree - like you I'm sick of people saying - oh he will go into the West End. Ironically the things that make Joe a failure as a pop star would also count against him becoming a musical star - an inability to emote, to interpret the lyrics or show any change in facial expression whatsoever. (What price a Joseph who grinned blandly throughout the whole show even when he was being sold into slavery, whatever ). No harm to the lad but I'm not remotely surprised he flopped. Truth is I don't remember a single Joe performance as I used to tune out after the first few notes, and would find myself forgetting who he was while he was still on stage. Far from having the X Factor Joe is the perfect example of someone who can sing but doesn't have it ...
Totally disagree with this part of your post, everyone sees something different
Anyway, Joe's future, like the rest of them is not dependent on what a few people on a forum think, thankfully or not one of them, including Leona, would have succeeded so far.
Totally agree - like you I'm sick of people saying - oh he will go into the West End. Ironically the things that make Joe a failure as a pop star would also count against him becoming a musical star - an inability to emote, to interpret the lyrics or show any change in facial expression whatsoever. (What price a Joseph who grinned blandly throughout the whole show even when he was being sold into slavery, whatever ). No harm to the lad but I'm not remotely surprised he flopped. Truth is I don't remember a single Joe performance as I used to tune out after the first few notes, and would find myself forgetting who he was while he was still on stage. Far from having the X Factor Joe is the perfect example of someone who can sing but doesn't have it ...
No disrespect but rather than your opinion I'd rather that of those who mentored and guested in xfactor when they said of Joe:
Whitney: 'That was absolutely beautiful'
Clive Davis: 'you are feelling the emotion of the song, that's what I look for'
Alicia Keyes: 'His vocal, he was right on top of it and strong from the start'
Little Boots: 'I got so many tingles'
Rhydian: 'I just love his voice'
Even George Michael in an interview with Chris Evans said: 'Joe is better than I was at his age'
Syco couldn't start a panic and just have no idea what to do with the talent they have in Joe. As somone said earlier they are not interested in developing an artist and just want the quick buck. The sooner he gets away from them the better.
LOL, no, it's not, it depends who is asked. Adam is great, but for me he single handedly made the season interesting, the others were boring.
Season 7 had Cook, but I also liked Jason , Brooke , Michael and Carly, so for me season 7 wins.
I don't know what it has to do with Joe though, or even what Matt has to do with what will happen to Joe in 2011:rolleyes:
I agree in part with what you're saying. Adam was a stand-out but I think Danny would have done well too in any other year and Allison is one of the best contestants of her age I've seen in any of these shows.
I agree with your comments about season 7. Michael and Carly went out far too soon (though I wasn't surprised personally seeing as neither of them were American) and Brooke and Jason were very good too. I still don't know how Syesha made the top 3.
Though I've added to the conversation twice, I totally agree with your last paragraph. What has this or Matt got to do with Joe?
Totally agree - like you I'm sick of people saying - oh he will go into the West End. Ironically the things that make Joe a failure as a pop star would also count against him becoming a musical star - an inability to emote, to interpret the lyrics or show any change in facial expression whatsoever. (What price a Joseph who grinned blandly throughout the whole show even when he was being sold into slavery, whatever ). No harm to the lad but I'm not remotely surprised he flopped. Truth is I don't remember a single Joe performance as I used to tune out after the first few notes, and would find myself forgetting who he was while he was still on stage. Far from having the X Factor Joe is the perfect example of someone who can sing but doesn't have it ...
Sorry but what a load of BS.
The only performances that Joe smiled throughout were the ones that warranted it, such as Could It Be Magic. I don't remember smiles throughout She's Out Of My Life, Sorry Seems To Be The Hardest Word or similar others. He smiled throughout Don't Let The Sun Go Down On Me in the final but what do you expect? He was a 19 year old boy performing with his and his mum's idol.
Anyway, you say you tuned out of his performances after the first few notes so how can you possibly know or even remember whether he performed them all with a smile or a scowl or tears streaming down his face?
No disrespect but rather than your opinion I'd rather that of those who mentored and guested in xfactor when they said of Joe:
Whitney: 'That was absolutely beautiful'
Clive Davis: 'you are feelling the emotion of the song, that's what I look for'
Alicia Keyes: 'His vocal, he was right on top of it and strong from the start'
Little Boots: 'I got so many tingles'
Rhydian: 'I just love his voice'
Even George Michael in an interview with Chris Evans said: 'Joe is better than I was at his age'
Syco couldn't start a panic and just have no idea what to do with the talent they have in Joe. As somone said earlier they are not interested in developing an artist and just want the quick buck. The sooner he gets away from them the better.
With respect, apart from the Clive Davis quote, these remarks relate mainly to Joe's singing voice not his personality or charisma - I don't dispute that he is good vocally - Certainly I think that based on singing ability alone he was the best of a rather poor bunch in his year. The point I was making that usually it takes more than a good voice to succeed in musical theatre - the person must have stage presence and the ability to project themselves plus a modicum of acting ability.
You get no argument from me on Syco but it seems to me that if with or without their help Joe had retained a large fanbase or any public interest he would have gotten a much better chart placing on his followup single on the back of an X Factor performance. He just isn't memorable - nothing wrong with that I'm not either - but for a person hoping to make a career in the music industry it's the kiss of death.
I love the idea that Joe is scientifically proven popstar. I didn't realise these things were determined in the lab...
I went to school with a couple of people who had absolute pitch. It's not a big deal. They weren't even the best singers there, by a long shot. Singing is about a lot more than pitch. Neither of them are popstars now, oddly enough. :rolleyes:
Joe tried his best, had phenomenal promotional opportunities given to him, and produced a record full of the sort of songs he wanted to sing. It didn't work. Nobody sees him as popstar. The people who voted for him mostly aren't the sort that would buy music. He had his chance, it didn't work out. I wish him well in whatever he tries to do next, but as a popstar he was (and was always going to be) rubbish.
Not that being a "popstar" and being a recording artist are necessarily one and the same. What is a popstar in any case? And if such a stereotype exists isn't it something to be challenged and broken?
Furthermore, I don't think there is anyone out there, musically, who can be remotely compared to Joe or they him. And I'll respect him for what he is - one of the best (i.e. most talented) vocalists ever to grace our screens on The X Factor. He has a vocal, which IMO, which defies his diminutive stature and that gave him a powerful stage presence he was the "small boy, [with the] BIG VOICE", who executed to perfection some pretty complex vocal harmonies. Joe's a natural singer, with a very pure vocal, which is why, IMO, he shines best when totally stripped-down to his vocal
What I will say, of course, is that I don't think Joe appealed to those tuning in for Saturday night 'entertainment'. And a very different album may have yielded more positive commercial results because it seems obvious to me the direction he has taken has only served to disconnect him from many, especially a more mature (age-wise) audience, who may have been prediposed to buying his music
Joe, obviously, connected to win it in the first place - and when he smashed it with 'Don't Let the Sun Go Down on Me' in week 7 it was, effectively, game, set and match
I just know this much I wouldn't vote for any contestant unless I was prepared to support them 100%, thereafter, and I've loved Shayne, Leona and Joe from the moment I heard them sing - and nothing can change that
My perception of Joe, from the start, was him being more of a QUALITY album artist rather than someone who was going to have hit single, after hit single, after hit single
Not that being a "popstar" and being a recording artist are necessarily one and the same. What is a popstar in any case? And if such a stereotype exists isn't it something to be challenged and broken?
Furthermore, I don't think there is anyone out there, musically, who can be remotely compared to Joe or they him. And I'll respect him for what he is - one of the best (i.e. most talented) vocalists ever to grace our screens on The X Factor. He has a vocal, which IMO, which defies his diminutive stature and that gave him a powerful stage presence he was the "small boy, [with the] BIG VOICE", who executed to perfection some pretty complex vocal harmonies. Joe's a natural singer, with a very pure vocal, which is why, IMO, he shines best when totally stripped-down to his vocal
What I will say, of course, is that I don't think Joe appealed to those tuning in for Saturday night 'entertainment'. And a very different album may have yielded more positive commercial results because it seems obvious to me the direction he has taken has only served to disconnect him from many, especially a more mature (age-wise) audience, who may have been prediposed to buying his music
Joe, obviously, connected to win it in the first place - and when he smashed it with 'Don't Let the Sun Go Down on Me' in week 7 it was, effectively, game, set and match
I just know this much I wouldn't vote for any contestant unless I was prepared to support them 100%, thereafter, and I've loved Shayne, Leona and Joe from the moment I heard them sing - and nothing can change that
My perception of Joe, from the start, was him being more of a QUALITY album artist rather than someone who was going to have hit single, after hit single, after hit single
Nevertheless, when we (TheX Factor viewer) are reminded time and time again that this is a "singing competition", Joe winning, fair and square and entirely on his own merits, was as logical an outcome as it gets
Because trust me poor to average wouldn't have a chance in hell of getting through past me on any panel of judges. And nor would the ego-tripping, 'up themselves' desparately seeking fame and stardom, for its own sake, types either
I'll say this much for Joe, whatever happens moving forward if he can make a living/career out of what he wants to do - sing - he'll be well on the road down to self-actualisation. And if he achieves that, far from failing, he will have SUCCEEDED. Because grounded, humble, modest and unassuming (admirable qualities for anyone to have, I'd say, let alone a very talented 19 year-old singer, who strikes me as being very committed, hence, polished performances) is what Joe is. And he cuts it with me
I'm very selective when it comes to talent shows, as to who I vote for and buy from. I've only ever bought from Will Young, Shayne Ward, Leona Lewis, Rhydian Roberts and Joe but that doesn't mean to say I don't rate many others. I certainly wouldn't wish 'failure' on any of them, even those I, personally, cannot stand
You like Diana Vickers, I don't, essentially because I struggle to understand a word she's singing but I don't doubt she's talented
You cite Bleeding Love and Come Together as signs Matt is average. Well for me those performances were not average but then we seem to want different things in our performers. You I can see value 'pitch perfection' in a voice; for me emotion, tone, intelligence and depth of delivery - even sexiness & charm - all matter too. Its entirely a matter of taste. Matt for me has a remarkable voice; to you its average. Joe for you is, as far as I can gather, close to perfection; for me he's not. That doesn't mean I don't think he's good; he's just not someone who galvanises me.
An amazing voice is an amazing voice no matter what? Are you saying good singers cant be badly affected by illness? We dont know how ill Joe actually was or if he was suffering severe pain in that clip or how indeed how ill Matt was when HE sang. All we have re Matt is the account of others that he was very close to being pulled from the competition. In any event how ill or otherwise Matt was, is irrelevant to Joe's prospects, as indeed is Matt.
A truly exceptional / amazing / remarkable voice has all the qualities you list. I don't note any great ability to emote or deliver in Matt's voice and his tone ranges from a whisper/mumble to a shout or whine. Sadly Matt's voice is also lacking in reliability when it comes to tuning.
The fact that the boy didn't hit a duff note throughout the competition (something that not even Leona, Rhydian, Alexandra, Shayne, Andy A and several others noted for their voices managed to do) is enough to make any detractor look ridiculous when they are debating near perfection. I'm sure Matt can dream of coming close.
Matt came close to pulling out of the competition? Of course he did :rolleyes: He was able to perform. If he had had as much as 'flu or a full blown infection he wouldn't even have been able to sit behind a desk and if he had had laryngitis or tonsillitis, he wouldn't have risked his career by the permanent damage it would do to his voice to sing with it and neither would his advisors have.
Of course good singers can be affected by colds, sore throats, blocked noses, etc, but Matt's vocal unsteadiness wasn't limited to the weeke he was supposedly affected and as I said, if his problems were as serious as portrayed, he wouldn't have been singing, full stop.
I dare say the scientific lab sheds insights into the truly gifted vocalists from those who aren't so much
I love the way that this is being laughed off though scientific analysis of voices is not a recent thing. Pitch / percentage note perfection is not the only thing it takes into account.
If Matt came high on this analysis, his fans would be hailing it as proof of his greatness.
Well to get back to the topic - Joe is going to sign with another label who will whisk his cut little butt to the states and no I haven't been drinking.
I doubt it. I found out in hindsight that Joe got interest from the States which was the reason for Simon's change of tack. However when he came out that was that.
The only performances that Joe smiled throughout were the ones that warranted it, such as Could It Be Magic. I don't remember smiles throughout She's Out Of My Life, Sorry Seems To Be The Hardest Word or similar others. He smiled throughout Don't Let The Sun Go Down On Me in the final but what do you expect? He was a 19 year old boy performing with his and his mum's idol.
Anyway, you say you tuned out of his performances after the first few notes so how can you possibly know or even remember whether he performed them all with a smile or a scowl or tears streaming down his face?
A truly exceptional / amazing / remarkable voice has all the qualities you list. I don't note any great ability to emote or deliver in Matt's voice and his tone ranges from a whisper/mumble to a shout or whine. Sadly Matt's voice is also lacking in reliability when it comes to tuning.
The fact that the boy didn't hit a duff note throughout the competition (something that not even Leona, Rhydian, Alexandra, Shayne, Andy A and several others noted for their voices managed to do) is enough to make any detractor look ridiculous when they are debating near perfection. I'm sure Matt can dream of coming close.
Matt came close to pulling out of the competition? Of course he did :rolleyes: He was able to perform. If he had had as much as 'flu or a full blown infection he wouldn't even have been able to sit behind a desk and if he had had laryngitis or tonsillitis, he wouldn't have risked his career by the permanent damage it would do to his voice to sing with it and neither would his advisors have.
Of course good singers can be affected by colds, sore throats, blocked noses, etc, but Matt's vocal unsteadiness wasn't limited to the weeke he was supposedly affected and as I said, if his problems were as serious as portrayed, he wouldn't have been singing, full stop.
I love the way that this is being laughed off though scientific analysis of voices is not a recent thing. Pitch / percentage note perfection is not the only thing it takes into account.
If Matt came high on this analysis, his fans would be hailing it as proof of his greatness.
Fram what I can see on this site, the above seems to equal Matt fans.
FGS can some people not comment without an f'ing great brush in their hands:rolleyes: I could be a twonk and instead of saying some people, I would have said "Matt detractors",
This fan wouldn't as this fan doesn't need "proof" of his greatness. This fan is far more interested in how he sounds, and the pleasure derived from that.
If people blame Syco for the 'downfall' of Joe McE then I would love to see them be in charge and do a better job.
Matt has personality, charm, eloquence, looks, performance skills and a great voice. My Christmas tree is in on its last legs but I'd bet it could still do a better job of promoting and managing Joe than Syco has.
[QUOTE Originally posted by Gemini Dream. (sorry messed up the quote)
I doubt it. I found out in hindsight that Joe got interest from the States which was the reason for Simon's change of tack. However when he came out that was that.[/QUOTE]
I thought this had happened too, but have reason to believe that this is interest is still on the cards. Just gonna wait a little while longer and see what happens.;)
Originally posted by Gemini Dream. (sorry messed up the quote)
I doubt it. I found out in hindsight that Joe got interest from the States which was the reason for Simon's change of tack. However when he came out that was that.
I thought this had happened too, but have reason to believe that this is interest is still on the cards. Just gonna wait a little while longer and see what happens.;)
please, share with us why you have reason to believe that. I am not doubting, I am honestly interested in knowing details.
I dare say the scientific lab sheds insights into the truly gifted vocalists from those who aren't so much
Stick Joe in a lab then.
Nobody could care less whether he's a "truly gifted vocalist" or not. Nobody ever became a successful popstar on the basis that their voice was technically accurate. Nobody gives a crap about that in the real world without the 'X Factor' that makes people want to listen to someone and buy their records.
Syco aren't a great record label. But Joe failed mostly because nobody cared, not because he wasn't given a chance.
Comments
Whilst I agree with most of the rest of your post, the reasons for Kris' win are well evidenced if you know where to look or look hard enough (and no, it's nothing to do with Adam's sexuality - if that were the case, he would have been out of the competition long before the final - or with AT&T) and as for Kris' originality, how many rearrangements of songs did Adam perform before Kris did a version of Heartbreaker that was every bit as much based on the Fray's version as Matt's Baby One More Time was based on the Travis version?
Also, Kris didn't criticise his fellow contestants or previous winners but anyone who's ever ventured anywhere near his Twitter account will know he has made disrespectful remarks on several occasions.
No, unreliable even when perfectly healthy. Matt only gave one performance throughout the whole competition that had no obvious bum notes (it wasn't perfect but it was as near to it as he got) and funnily enough it was in one of his ill weeks.
Syco are in the business of making instant money, not developing careers, and whether part of Joe's problem is that they gave him cr*p material is irrelevant to them because he now has missed the big winner buzz, so he'll be dropped.
It is possible that he'll stay with Modest for a while, and that they'll find some work for him, like musical theatre.
Yikes, I'm not even a particular Matt fan and I can see you've destroyed all credible argument by comparing him to those two. Lee - unable to complete one song in key/tune and without looking like someone was going to run on stage and shoot him (how on earth did he beat Crystal
Matt might not be to your taste, but he was clearly better then either of those two (not commenting on Kris as that season bored me, didn't like any of the finalists and I drifted away quite early, but I did find his album quite bland after a quick listen).
Joe I did like, nice voice, didn't like what I heard of his album, but with decent management and the right tracks I still think there's a viable music career for him - won't comment on muscial theatre as I'm not a fan so don't really know if Joe has what it takes to make it there.
With all due respect, Lee and Andrew might not be to your taste but it is your opinion that Matt is better than them.
Season 8 is widely recognised by viewers, followers and those involved with the show as having the greatest strength in depth of any of the seasons since the start. How that could have bored you is beyond me.
As for Joe, I can understand why his album took the direction it did, even if it was for the wrong reasons and even if in hindsight it was too far a departure from what he did on the show.
Lee was consistantly out of key and look very uncomfortable on stage, Matt did have some decent performances, and Andrew wasn't boring on every performance bar Straight Up? Please point me in the direction of something he did on the show that wasn't coma inducing
Season 8 greatest depth and strength, and widely recongnised as such? I think just about anyone who's a particular fan of someone off a particular series of Idol will always argue their season was the strongest, I'd equally argue AI7 was far stronger
The American Idol Season 8 might have bored you. But that season is one of the best seasons for many music fans in the US, the UK, and the other countries.
Joe is a nice guy and a very talented singer. I think he needs better songs to sing, the support of the radio stations, and a stronger image. I wish him all the best.
Lee hit bum notes but Matt had more than his fair share of them. Andrew may not have set the stage on fire but vocally he was better than the pair of them.
Regardless of contestant preferences, season 8 is widely regarded as the strongest in overall talent. There wasn't a contestant in the top 12 that wouldn't have been in the top 12 in any other year and there were five or six contestants in it who could have won most of the other years. With the exception of the two Davids, there was very little to write home about in season 7.
LOL, no, it's not, it depends who is asked. Adam is great, but for me he single handedly made the season interesting, the others were boring.
Season 7 had Cook, but I also liked Jason , Brooke , Michael and Carly, so for me season 7 wins.
I don't know what it has to do with Joe though, or even what Matt has to do with what will happen to Joe in 2011:rolleyes:
Totally agree - like you I'm sick of people saying - oh he will go into the West End. Ironically the things that make Joe a failure as a pop star would also count against him becoming a musical star - an inability to emote, to interpret the lyrics or show any change in facial expression whatsoever. (What price a Joseph who grinned blandly throughout the whole show even when he was being sold into slavery, whatever
Totally disagree with this part of your post, everyone sees something different
Anyway, Joe's future, like the rest of them is not dependent on what a few people on a forum think, thankfully or not one of them, including Leona, would have succeeded so far.
No disrespect but rather than your opinion I'd rather that of those who mentored and guested in xfactor when they said of Joe:
Whitney: 'That was absolutely beautiful'
Clive Davis: 'you are feelling the emotion of the song, that's what I look for'
Alicia Keyes: 'His vocal, he was right on top of it and strong from the start'
Little Boots: 'I got so many tingles'
Rhydian: 'I just love his voice'
Even George Michael in an interview with Chris Evans said: 'Joe is better than I was at his age'
Syco couldn't start a panic and just have no idea what to do with the talent they have in Joe. As somone said earlier they are not interested in developing an artist and just want the quick buck. The sooner he gets away from them the better.
I agree in part with what you're saying. Adam was a stand-out but I think Danny would have done well too in any other year and Allison is one of the best contestants of her age I've seen in any of these shows.
I agree with your comments about season 7. Michael and Carly went out far too soon (though I wasn't surprised personally seeing as neither of them were American) and Brooke and Jason were very good too. I still don't know how Syesha made the top 3.
Though I've added to the conversation twice, I totally agree with your last paragraph. What has this or Matt got to do with Joe?
Sorry but what a load of BS.
The only performances that Joe smiled throughout were the ones that warranted it, such as Could It Be Magic. I don't remember smiles throughout She's Out Of My Life, Sorry Seems To Be The Hardest Word or similar others. He smiled throughout Don't Let The Sun Go Down On Me in the final but what do you expect? He was a 19 year old boy performing with his and his mum's idol.
Anyway, you say you tuned out of his performances after the first few notes so how can you possibly know or even remember whether he performed them all with a smile or a scowl or tears streaming down his face?
With respect, apart from the Clive Davis quote, these remarks relate mainly to Joe's singing voice not his personality or charisma - I don't dispute that he is good vocally - Certainly I think that based on singing ability alone he was the best of a rather poor bunch in his year. The point I was making that usually it takes more than a good voice to succeed in musical theatre - the person must have stage presence and the ability to project themselves plus a modicum of acting ability.
You get no argument from me on Syco but it seems to me that if with or without their help Joe had retained a large fanbase or any public interest he would have gotten a much better chart placing on his followup single on the back of an X Factor performance. He just isn't memorable - nothing wrong with that I'm not either - but for a person hoping to make a career in the music industry it's the kiss of death.
Not that being a "popstar" and being a recording artist are necessarily one and the same. What is a popstar in any case? And if such a stereotype exists isn't it something to be challenged and broken?
Furthermore, I don't think there is anyone out there, musically, who can be remotely compared to Joe or they him. And I'll respect him for what he is - one of the best (i.e. most talented) vocalists ever to grace our screens on The X Factor. He has a vocal, which IMO, which defies his diminutive stature and that gave him a powerful stage presence he was the "small boy, [with the] BIG VOICE", who executed to perfection some pretty complex vocal harmonies. Joe's a natural singer, with a very pure vocal, which is why, IMO, he shines best when totally stripped-down to his vocal
What I will say, of course, is that I don't think Joe appealed to those tuning in for Saturday night 'entertainment'. And a very different album may have yielded more positive
Joe, obviously, connected to win it in the first place - and when he smashed it with 'Don't Let the Sun Go Down on Me' in week 7 it was, effectively, game, set and match
I just know this much I wouldn't vote for any contestant unless I was prepared to support them 100%, thereafter, and I've loved Shayne, Leona and Joe from the moment I heard them sing
My perception of Joe, from the start, was him being more of a QUALITY album artist rather than someone who was going to have hit single, after hit single, after hit single
Nevertheless, when we (TheX Factor viewer) are reminded time and time again that this is a "singing competition", Joe winning, fair and square and entirely on his own merits, was as logical an outcome as it gets
Because trust me poor to average wouldn't have a chance in hell of getting through past me on any panel of judges. And nor would the ego-tripping, 'up themselves' desparately seeking fame and stardom, for its own sake, types either
I'll say this much for Joe, whatever happens moving forward if he can make a living/career out of what he wants to do - sing - he'll be well on the road down to self-actualisation. And if he achieves that, far from failing, he will have SUCCEEDED
I'm very selective when it comes to talent shows, as to who I vote for and buy from. I've only ever bought from Will Young, Shayne Ward, Leona Lewis, Rhydian Roberts and Joe but that doesn't mean to say I don't rate many others. I certainly wouldn't wish 'failure' on any of them, even those I, personally, cannot stand
You like Diana Vickers, I don't, essentially because I struggle to understand a word she's singing but I don't doubt she's talented
I dare say the scientific lab sheds insights into the truly gifted vocalists from those who aren't so much
A truly exceptional / amazing / remarkable voice has all the qualities you list. I don't note any great ability to emote or deliver in Matt's voice and his tone ranges from a whisper/mumble to a shout or whine. Sadly Matt's voice is also lacking in reliability when it comes to tuning.
The fact that the boy didn't hit a duff note throughout the competition (something that not even Leona, Rhydian, Alexandra, Shayne, Andy A and several others noted for their voices managed to do) is enough to make any detractor look ridiculous when they are debating near perfection. I'm sure Matt can dream of coming close.
Matt came close to pulling out of the competition? Of course he did :rolleyes: He was able to perform. If he had had as much as 'flu or a full blown infection he wouldn't even have been able to sit behind a desk and if he had had laryngitis or tonsillitis, he wouldn't have risked his career by the permanent damage it would do to his voice to sing with it and neither would his advisors have.
Of course good singers can be affected by colds, sore throats, blocked noses, etc, but Matt's vocal unsteadiness wasn't limited to the weeke he was supposedly affected and as I said, if his problems were as serious as portrayed, he wouldn't have been singing, full stop.
I love the way that this is being laughed off though scientific analysis of voices is not a recent thing. Pitch / percentage note perfection is not the only thing it takes into account.
If Matt came high on this analysis, his fans would be hailing it as proof of his greatness.
Fram what I can see on this site, the above seems to equal Matt fans.
I doubt it. I found out in hindsight that Joe got interest from the States which was the reason for Simon's change of tack. However when he came out that was that.
LOL, you took the words out of my mouth.
FGS can some people not comment without an f'ing great brush in their hands:rolleyes: I could be a twonk and instead of saying some people, I would have said "Matt detractors",
This fan wouldn't as this fan doesn't need "proof" of his greatness. This fan is far more interested in how he sounds, and the pleasure derived from that.
Matt has personality, charm, eloquence, looks, performance skills and a great voice. My Christmas tree is in on its last legs but I'd bet it could still do a better job of promoting and managing Joe than Syco has.
I doubt it. I found out in hindsight that Joe got interest from the States which was the reason for Simon's change of tack. However when he came out that was that.[/QUOTE]
I thought this had happened too, but have reason to believe that this is interest is still on the cards. Just gonna wait a little while longer and see what happens.;)
please, share with us why you have reason to believe that. I am not doubting, I am honestly interested in knowing details.
Nobody could care less whether he's a "truly gifted vocalist" or not. Nobody ever became a successful popstar on the basis that their voice was technically accurate. Nobody gives a crap about that in the real world without the 'X Factor' that makes people want to listen to someone and buy their records.
Syco aren't a great record label. But Joe failed mostly because nobody cared, not because he wasn't given a chance.