I'm not so sure about whether this particular piece of scum is better or worse off now. Sure, he'll have experienced some terror - akin to what he inflicted on his defenceless victim, but hasn't killing him caused his suffering to be over now ?
In effect, he's been put out of his misery and had his punishment ended.
That was my point. But the rash don't think through their plans...
I'm not so sure about whether this particular piece of scum is better or worse off now. Sure, he'll have experienced some terror - akin to what he inflicted on his defenceless victim, but hasn't killing him caused his suffering to be over now ?
In effect, he's been put out of his misery and had his punishment ended.
Nah, he's now lost everything he had, and everything he's ever going to have. No coming back for him, he died as he lived. Good riddance I say, those two lads have saved us all a few quid too.
If he tortured a murdered a child then he got what he deserved, my only hope is that the same happens to the likes of Baby P's killers & Ian Huntley, other murderers like Venables, Tracie Andrews etc etc I can only but hope that they meet their maker at some point when they least expect it.
Curious isn't it. That revenge thing is almost, almost, understandable, if rather juvenile IMO. When it ramps up to positive sadism and blood lust it's a whole new level all together.
Some people are really quite disturbing.
I can't say I condone what happened, but really, in light of what this vile man did, the idea that the desire for revenge is flawed and childish/juvenile is hard to accept. I'm sure if you're honest with yourself you do understand why people feel that way.
Nah, he's now lost everything he had, and everything he's ever going to have. No coming back for him, he died as he lived. Good riddance I say, those two lads have saved us all a few quid too.
Bet they won't off themselves and save us a bit more, though. Such selfishness.
The bloodlust is a little disturbing. Especially when you're not remotely linked to the case.
No one would argue that torturing a child is anything but terrible and disgusting behaviour. But why do some people think that an adequate response to that is to torture and cause as much pain to the perpetrator? Does that not make you almost as bad as them? It's quite a savage response.
No, we're more humane than that, as we should be. Depriving the man of his civil liberties for the rest of his natural life is the right thing to do. We'll all die at some point and you could argue that this man has suffered a lot less by being killed now than waiting many years.
The murder shows how brutal humans can be, but so does the "well done lads" mentality. Maybe these people aren't so far from the perpetrator as they'd like to think? It's an interesting one.
The bloodlust is a little disturbing. Especially when you're not remotely linked to the case.
No one would argue that torturing a child is anything but terrible and disgusting behaviour. But why do some people think that an adequate response to that is to torture and cause as much pain to the perpetrator? Does that not make you almost as bad as them? It's quite a savage response.
No, we're more humane than that, as we should be. Depriving the man of his civil liberties for the rest of his natural life is the right thing to do. We'll all die at some point and you could argue that this man has suffered a lot less by being killed now than waiting many years.
The murder shows how brutal humans can be, but so does the "well done lads" mentality. Maybe these people aren't so far from the perpetrator as they'd like to think? It's an interesting one.
He would probably be out in 10 years on good behaviour. Sadly life doesn't mean life anymore.
I don't think wishing death on someone who has committed vile disgusting criminal offences makes you as bad as the perpetrator. I just think it makes you normal.
Nah, he's now lost everything he had, and everything he's ever going to have. No coming back for him, he died as he lived. Good riddance I say, those two lads have saved us all a few quid too.
I agree the world's a better place without biological cock-ups like him, but this time last week he was suffering and now he'll never suffer again. A great pity that life doesn't actually mean...life.
He would probably be out in 10 years on good behaviour. Sadly life doesn't mean life anymore.
I don't think wishing death on someone who has committed vile disgusting criminal offences makes you as bad as the perpetrator. I just think it makes you normal.
I don't think wishing violence and taking pleasure in inflicting pain on anyone is normal.
I agree the world's a better place without biological cock-ups like him, but this time last week he was suffering and now he'll never suffer again. A great pity that life doesn't actually mean...life.
He'll never do anything again, he's had everything taken away. Even lifers adapt to allow themselves limited privileges and small pleasures.
No, we're more humane than that, as we should be. Depriving the man of his civil liberties for the rest of his natural life is the right thing to do. We'll all die at some point and you could argue that this man has suffered a lot less by being killed now than waiting many years.
I would agree that languishing in prison for forty years or more would cause him to suffer more, but to me that contradicts the inhumane angle given here.
I would agree that languishing in prison for forty years or more wood cause him to suffer more, but to me that contradicts the inhumane angle given here.
It's not inhumane to punish someone without causing them physical harm in my opinion. That's what I'm saying.
I just think it's a bit sick to wish death on anyone, and I can't understand why some people who feel so strongly that murder is wrong can't see my point...
I haven't seen anyone say "well done, lads... but I hope someone murders them now, too". Using their logic (murder = you must be killed yourself) then that's what they should be arguing for. It's just a bit of a joke to argue violence is wrong while savagely demanding the violent death of another.
It's not inhumane to punish someone without causing them physical harm in my opinion. That's what I'm saying.
I just think it's a bit sick to wish death on anyone, and I can't understand why some people who feel so strongly that murder is wrong can't see my point...
I haven't seen anyone say "well done, lads... but I hope someone murders them now, too". Using their logic (murder = you must be killed yourself) then that's what they should be arguing for. It's just a bit of a joke to argue violence is wrong while savagely demanding the violent death of another.
Most people acknowledge the absolute cruelty of an adult man torturing and murdering a two year old girl. The injustice inherent in that unfairly matched violence makes people naturally enraged. Same with people who do similar to animals. It's a natural reaction that people will attempt to redress that balance by hoping or wishing a similar fate is meted out to the perpetrator. Justice and revenge are closely linked, and the first attempts to satisfy the emotive feelings that drive the second.
I've long been of the opinion that civilisation is essentially an artificial structure we've put in place primarily to protect us from our own worse natures. This kind of blood lust does nothing to dispel that idea.
But who gets to judge which of our various "natures" is the worse?
To me, allowing somebody like this this to live after the crime they have commited is humanity acting on it's "worst nature".
It stems from cowardice IMO.
An innability to look into the abyss and accept and deal with what is seen there.
Instead we put a sticking plaster over what we have seen and pretend that prison is some kind of solution. And hastily remove ourselves from getting too close to what the victims, and those close to the victims, have suffered.
That's not civilised. It's a by product of having a large enough population so that enough people are not personally affected by the crime.
If the majority had to meet and interact daily with the victims who are left behind, prison wouldn't exist for cold blooded murderers.
Most people acknowledge the absolute cruelty of an adult man torturing and murdering a two year old girl. The injustice inherent in that unfairly matched violence makes people naturally enraged. Same with people who do similar to animals. It's a natural reaction that people will attempt to redress that balance by hoping or wishing a similar fate is meted out to the perpetrator. Justice and revenge are closely linked, and the first attempts to satisfy the emotive feelings that drive the second.
Revenge achieves nothing. It makes you feel hollow.
People seek it, thinking it will make them feel better. But once it's followed through, generally the person will feel just as bad - because the event for which they sought revenge still occurred and nothing has actually changed. And -- over time -- they may even feel guilt for the depths that the desire for revenge drove them to.
It's much healthier to rise above it and live your life without bitterness. You'll be much happier.
(All of the above "yous" are naturally the general "you".)
It seems we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one, tremey. But then we're used to that.
Imagine that you think that you are all that, after killing a little child. Good riddance to this kind of scum, just hope there is a hell.
But how do we actually know he's been "strutting around"? It sounds like something the tabloids would make up to spark even more outrage in their vigilante readership.
Revenge achieves nothing. It makes you feel hollow.
People seek it, thinking it will make them feel better. But once it's followed through, generally the person will feel just as bad - because the event for which they sought revenge still occurred and nothing has actually changed. And -- over time -- they may even feel guilt for the depths that the desire for revenge drove them to.
It's much healthier to rise above it and live your life without bitterness. You'll be much happier.
(All of the above "yous" are naturally the general "you".)
It seems we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one, tremey. But then we're used to that.
What if the bitterness stems from knowing the person who did this to your loved one is still alive to enjoy the sunshine/smell the flowers?
Still alive to rake up the crime years down the line should it suit them to do so. Use the crime to gain more attention.
What if the bitterness stems from knowing the person who did this to your loved one is still alive to enjoy the sunshine/smell the flowers?
Still alive to rake up the crime years down the line should it suit them to do so. Use the crime to gain more attention.
My point still stands. If you let them ruin your life, you give them the power.
I'm not saying it's easy and I'm not saying one needs to forgive the person. But if you don't let go at some point, then you've let that person destroy your life, too.
Revenge achieves nothing. It makes you feel hollow.
People seek it, thinking it will make them feel better. But once it's followed through, generally the person will feel just as bad - because the event for which they sought revenge still occurred and nothing has actually changed. And -- over time -- they may even feel guilt for the depths that the desire for revenge drove them to.
It's much healthier to rise above it and live your life without bitterness. You'll be much happier.
(All of the above "yous" are naturally the general "you".)
It seems we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one, tremey. But then we're used to that.
while i agree with you, there is a massive contradiction in how i feel about this man's murder.
I don't agree with revenge, i don't agree with the death penalty, I don't agree with the concept that the 2 murderers should have been able to have access enough to him that this happened, but as its happened, I won't give the child killer a second thought.
Re: money saved on the fact he no longer needs housing in prison....Mistakes happen when you live by that particular sword, prisons are full of dangerous people. I am not sure about the 2 men saving the taxpayer any money as Im not sure how much, compared to the child killers incarceration costs vs the investigations / any subsequent trial, will be saved / will be spent. It costs more to keep sex offenders / child killers incarcerated because of their compromised safety so you can thank the likes of these 2 men for that. Any money saved has already been spent in that respect.
I hope he suffered hell at the hands of his murderers. People like him do not deserve to live. The mother was just as bad. How could she let her daughter suffer like this. Capital punishment should be brought back for the likes of him and her. Rough justice in prison
But had there been capital punishment then there wouldn't have been the torment and beating that youve revelled in him getting having been given.
Comments
That was my point. But the rash don't think through their plans...
Nah, he's now lost everything he had, and everything he's ever going to have. No coming back for him, he died as he lived. Good riddance I say, those two lads have saved us all a few quid too.
I can't say I condone what happened, but really, in light of what this vile man did, the idea that the desire for revenge is flawed and childish/juvenile is hard to accept. I'm sure if you're honest with yourself you do understand why people feel that way.
Bet they won't off themselves and save us a bit more, though. Such selfishness.
No one would argue that torturing a child is anything but terrible and disgusting behaviour. But why do some people think that an adequate response to that is to torture and cause as much pain to the perpetrator? Does that not make you almost as bad as them? It's quite a savage response.
No, we're more humane than that, as we should be. Depriving the man of his civil liberties for the rest of his natural life is the right thing to do. We'll all die at some point and you could argue that this man has suffered a lot less by being killed now than waiting many years.
The murder shows how brutal humans can be, but so does the "well done lads" mentality. Maybe these people aren't so far from the perpetrator as they'd like to think? It's an interesting one.
He would probably be out in 10 years on good behaviour. Sadly life doesn't mean life anymore.
I don't think wishing death on someone who has committed vile disgusting criminal offences makes you as bad as the perpetrator. I just think it makes you normal.
I agree the world's a better place without biological cock-ups like him, but this time last week he was suffering and now he'll never suffer again. A great pity that life doesn't actually mean...life.
I don't think wishing violence and taking pleasure in inflicting pain on anyone is normal.
People let emotion cloud their judgment.
He'll never do anything again, he's had everything taken away. Even lifers adapt to allow themselves limited privileges and small pleasures.
A dead mind cares little about what's been taken away, though...
I would agree that languishing in prison for forty years or more would cause him to suffer more, but to me that contradicts the inhumane angle given here.
It's not inhumane to punish someone without causing them physical harm in my opinion. That's what I'm saying.
I just think it's a bit sick to wish death on anyone, and I can't understand why some people who feel so strongly that murder is wrong can't see my point...
I haven't seen anyone say "well done, lads... but I hope someone murders them now, too". Using their logic (murder = you must be killed yourself) then that's what they should be arguing for. It's just a bit of a joke to argue violence is wrong while savagely demanding the violent death of another.
Most people acknowledge the absolute cruelty of an adult man torturing and murdering a two year old girl. The injustice inherent in that unfairly matched violence makes people naturally enraged. Same with people who do similar to animals. It's a natural reaction that people will attempt to redress that balance by hoping or wishing a similar fate is meted out to the perpetrator. Justice and revenge are closely linked, and the first attempts to satisfy the emotive feelings that drive the second.
But who gets to judge which of our various "natures" is the worse?
To me, allowing somebody like this this to live after the crime they have commited is humanity acting on it's "worst nature".
It stems from cowardice IMO.
An innability to look into the abyss and accept and deal with what is seen there.
Instead we put a sticking plaster over what we have seen and pretend that prison is some kind of solution. And hastily remove ourselves from getting too close to what the victims, and those close to the victims, have suffered.
That's not civilised. It's a by product of having a large enough population so that enough people are not personally affected by the crime.
If the majority had to meet and interact daily with the victims who are left behind, prison wouldn't exist for cold blooded murderers.
Revenge achieves nothing. It makes you feel hollow.
People seek it, thinking it will make them feel better. But once it's followed through, generally the person will feel just as bad - because the event for which they sought revenge still occurred and nothing has actually changed. And -- over time -- they may even feel guilt for the depths that the desire for revenge drove them to.
It's much healthier to rise above it and live your life without bitterness. You'll be much happier.
(All of the above "yous" are naturally the general "you".)
It seems we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one, tremey. But then we're used to that.
Imagine that you think that you are all that, after killing a little child. Good riddance to this kind of scum, just hope there is a hell.
But how do we actually know he's been "strutting around"? It sounds like something the tabloids would make up to spark even more outrage in their vigilante readership.
What if the bitterness stems from knowing the person who did this to your loved one is still alive to enjoy the sunshine/smell the flowers?
Still alive to rake up the crime years down the line should it suit them to do so. Use the crime to gain more attention.
My point still stands. If you let them ruin your life, you give them the power.
I'm not saying it's easy and I'm not saying one needs to forgive the person. But if you don't let go at some point, then you've let that person destroy your life, too.
while i agree with you, there is a massive contradiction in how i feel about this man's murder.
I don't agree with revenge, i don't agree with the death penalty, I don't agree with the concept that the 2 murderers should have been able to have access enough to him that this happened, but as its happened, I won't give the child killer a second thought.
Re: money saved on the fact he no longer needs housing in prison....Mistakes happen when you live by that particular sword, prisons are full of dangerous people. I am not sure about the 2 men saving the taxpayer any money as Im not sure how much, compared to the child killers incarceration costs vs the investigations / any subsequent trial, will be saved / will be spent. It costs more to keep sex offenders / child killers incarcerated because of their compromised safety so you can thank the likes of these 2 men for that. Any money saved has already been spent in that respect.
But had there been capital punishment then there wouldn't have been the torment and beating that youve revelled in him getting having been given.
I don't understand which one you prefer.