Today's great statesmen/women

woot_whoowoot_whoo Posts: 18,030
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The prevailing opinion of politicians these days is that they are PR-led, carefully packaged and utterly bland individuals who can't answer a straight question without resorting to their pre-prepared scripts. They seem utterly devoid of charm, personality or any aura of real, confident leadership.

With that in mind, I'd ask who you all think are the current great statesmen (and women) on the political stage? Bear in mind, you don't have to agree with them or their politics, but who in power across the UK actually has the gravitas to look like they could live up to any of history's big names (Churchill, Disraeli, etc)?
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  • Biffo the BearBiffo the Bear Posts: 25,859
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    I can't think of any!
  • woot_whoowoot_whoo Posts: 18,030
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    I can't think of any!

    I'm struggling too. I can think of some who are very astute, talented politicians, but am not sure if I'd call them 'great statesmen'.
  • David TeeDavid Tee Posts: 22,833
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    I can't think of any in the UK - but worldwide, Merkel probably comes closest.
  • Rastus PiefaceRastus Pieface Posts: 4,382
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    David Tee wrote: »
    I can't think of any in the UK - but worldwide, Merkel probably comes closest.

    i agree. merkel does indeed come closer to being a man, than our 3 main party leaders.:D:blush:
  • smudges dadsmudges dad Posts: 36,989
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    UK, none stand out since Tony Benn. Worldwide, since Mandela's death, only Obama stands out, possibly Merkel as well, but well behind him

    The last universally respected UK politician was probably Lord Carrington.
  • northantsgirlnorthantsgirl Posts: 4,663
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    UK, none stand out since Tony Benn. Worldwide, since Mandela's death, only Obama stands out, possibly Merkel as well, but well behind him

    The last universally respected UK politician was probably Lord Carrington.

    If the best we can manage is the self-regarding Tony Benn then it is clear the days of great statesmen are well and truly over. However Robin Cook could have bagged this role if he hadn't died rather prematurely.
  • mRebelmRebel Posts: 24,882
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    woot_whoo wrote: »
    The prevailing opinion of politicians these days is that they are PR-led, carefully packaged and utterly bland individuals who can't answer a straight question without resorting to their pre-prepared scripts. They seem utterly devoid of charm, personality or any aura of real, confident leadership.

    With that in mind, I'd ask who you all think are the current great statesmen (and women) on the political stage? Bear in mind, you don't have to agree with them or their politics, but who in power across the UK actually has the gravitas to look like they could live up to any of history's big names (Churchill, Disraeli, etc)?

    Liberal peer Lord Ashcroft is my favourite politician of the moment. He was Liberal spokesman on the Treasury in the Lords till he resigned in late 2010 in protest at project Merlin. It was not, he said, what the Coalition claimed it was, i.e. a scheme to make banks use the public subsidy they've been given to make affordable credit available to business, but rather it was aimed at giving the impression it would do that. It would fail, he added, and he was right.

    A politician who gives up what will probably be his only chance of being in power on a point of principal is worth some respect.
  • Phil 2804Phil 2804 Posts: 21,846
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    If the best we can manage is the self-regarding Tony Benn then it is clear the days of great statesmen are well and truly over. However Robin Cook could have bagged this role if he hadn't died rather prematurely.

    Had Tony Benn got his way as Energy Secretary in the 1970s then at present Britain could be sitting on a Sovereign Wealth Fund similar in size to Norway's, or bigger, potentially £1 trillion.

    Now how big is our national debt again?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 590
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    Not sure if she counts but I'd say Aung San Suu Kyi is very respected. Apart from her, Merkel is the only one that comes to mind.
  • northantsgirlnorthantsgirl Posts: 4,663
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    Phil 2804 wrote: »
    Had Tony Benn got his way as Energy Secretary in the 1970s then at present Britain could be sitting on a Sovereign Wealth Fund similar in size to Norway's, or bigger, potentially £1 trillion.

    Now how big is our national debt again?

    Had Tony Benn got his way in the eighties then we would now probably be talking about the Labour Party in the past tense.
  • smudges dadsmudges dad Posts: 36,989
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    Had Tony Benn got his way in the eighties then we would now probably be talking about the Labour Party in the past tense.

    They would just be known as "The Party" as there would be no need for any others as everything would be perfect.
  • GreatGodPanGreatGodPan Posts: 53,186
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    Had Tony Benn got his way in the eighties then we would now probably be talking about the Labour Party in the past tense.

    We do talk about it in the past tense don't we?

    Any vaguely Left wing figures it had disappeared with the likes of Benn.

    You obviously are in favour of major political parties being the same.....
  • northantsgirlnorthantsgirl Posts: 4,663
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    We do talk about it in the past tense don't we?

    Any vaguely Left wing figures it had disappeared with the likes of Benn.

    You obviously are in favour of major political parties being the same.....

    There is quite a bit a space between the Blairites and the Bennites in which the Labour Party can sit yet provide a distinctive offer.

    I cannot and never will be able to fathom why Benn is held in such high esteem. If he had died about 1976 then he would have been talked about in reverential tones- as it was he didn't and bcame the Grade A shit he was in the eighties and one of those responsible for lumbering us with all this Blairite nonsense thereafter.
  • GreatGodPanGreatGodPan Posts: 53,186
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    There is quite a bit a space between the Blairites and the Bennites in which the Labour Party can sit yet provide a distinctive offer.

    I cannot and never will be able to fathom why Benn is held in such high esteem. If he had died about 1976 then he would have been talked about in reverential tones- as it was he didn't and bcame the Grade A shit he was in the eighties and one of those responsible for lumbering us with all this Blairite nonsense thereafter.

    Explain.

    I think he was one of the very few Labour politicians that has retained his principles and dignity.
  • paulschapmanpaulschapman Posts: 35,536
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    Explain.

    I think he was one of the very few Labour politicians that has retained his principles and dignity.

    Steps back in amazement - I'm agreeing with GGP! ;)

    Tony Benn seemed to be one of the few who did retain his principles even while I might not agree with them.

    There are few on either side of the house you can say that about.
  • BrokenArrowBrokenArrow Posts: 21,665
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    Steps back in amazement - I'm agreeing with GGP! ;)

    Tony Benn seemed to be one of the few who did retain his principles even while I might not agree with them.

    There are few on either side of the house you can say that about.

    and he was a Euro-sceptic, so that's another plus. :)
  • northantsgirlnorthantsgirl Posts: 4,663
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    Explain.

    I think he was one of the very few Labour politicians that has retained his principles and dignity.

    The influence of Tony Benn and his henchmen and their approach to machine politics were nothing but malign and destructive on the Labour Party. See what google picks up to get some more background. This was a deeply depressing time for Labour as the Bennites brooked no dissent and made everything inward looking in their fight, effectively letting Margaret Thatcher get away with it.
    And all that is without reference to Benn’s hard left policies which had an unpleasant streak and included his fulsome support of Sinn Fein when they were a terrorist adjunct to his support for Milosevic.
  • paulschapmanpaulschapman Posts: 35,536
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    The influence of Tony Benn and his henchmen and their approach to machine politics were nothing but malign and destructive on the Labour Party. See what google picks up to get some more background. This was a deeply depressing time for Labour as the Bennites brooked no dissent and made everything inward looking in their fight, effectively letting Margaret Thatcher get away with it.
    And all that is without reference to Benn’s hard left policies which had an unpleasant streak and included his fulsome support of Sinn Fein when they were a terrorist adjunct to his support for Milosevic.

    The thing is he did hold those views and stood by them - there are precious few in modern politics who do this. Too many seem to be politicians by focus group and stand for nothing but what will get them power and enough votes.

    I'm not socialist and cannot stand any of those socialist and communist systems, but I can at least acknowledge that he held those views even while disagreeing with them.
  • GreatGodPanGreatGodPan Posts: 53,186
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    The influence of Tony Benn and his henchmen and their approach to machine politics were nothing but malign and destructive on the Labour Party. See what google picks up to get some more background. This was a deeply depressing time for Labour as the Bennites brooked no dissent and made everything inward looking in their fight, effectively letting Margaret Thatcher get away with it.
    And all that is without reference to Benn’s hard left policies which had an unpleasant streak and included his fulsome support of Sinn Fein when they were a terrorist adjunct to his support for Milosevic.

    I don't need to "Google it" - I lived it.

    To speak of Benn's "henchmen" is ludicrous and your analysis of 80's politics seems to be depressingly reactionary, I'm afraid.
  • spiney2spiney2 Posts: 27,058
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    folks seem to be confusing wedgie benn with militant (formerly socialist workers party including vanessa redgrave).

    i nominate vlad putin. for sheer bravura and being a gay pinup in a country where that is illegal ......
  • northantsgirlnorthantsgirl Posts: 4,663
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    The thing is he did hold those views and stood by them - there are precious few in modern politics who do this. Too many seem to be politicians by focus group and stand for nothing but what will get them power and enough votes.

    I'm not socialist and cannot stand any of those socialist and communist systems, but I can at least acknowledge that he held those views even while disagreeing with them.

    You seem to forget he was once a career politician and was a member of the Cabinet for a long while and agreed to collective responsibility. In fact he was rather good in those days.
  • Phil 2804Phil 2804 Posts: 21,846
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    Had Tony Benn got his way in the eighties then we would now probably be talking about the Labour Party in the past tense.

    As opposed to the leadership of say Michael Foot which we all know was a stunning success.

    I'm well aware of the Labour Party's internal warfare in the 1980s, I studied it at length, none of that changed what I said however, Britain's oil revenues were pissed up a wall by the Tory and Labour Governments of the past 40 years and that epic failure is part of the reason why later this year the very future of the country we live in will be debated and decided on by referendum.
  • solenoidsolenoid Posts: 15,495
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    Diane Abbott.

    Lord Tebbit.
  • WhiteFangWhiteFang Posts: 3,970
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    The Dalai Lama
    British ones perhaps Tony Benn
  • northantsgirlnorthantsgirl Posts: 4,663
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    Phil 2804 wrote: »
    As opposed to the leadership of say Michael Foot which we all know was a stunning success.

    I'm well aware of the Labour Party's internal warfare in the 1980s, I studied it at length, none of that changed what I said however, Britain's oil revenues were pissed up a wall by the Tory and Labour Governments of the past 40 years and that epic failure is part of the reason why later this year the very future of the country we live in will be debated and decided on by referendum.

    What's Michael Foot to do with it? Anyway the person who got the ox that was eighties Labour out of the ditch was Kinnock. It's strange that he somehow doesn't get any plaudits and isn't seen as an elder statesman whilst the old bloke with a pipe is seen as someone with 'principles'. I tend to think that the reason so many Tories go on about Benn and his principles but will still take the piss out of Kinnock says something about both of these individuals and what they achieved. Far better to praise the person who nearly broke Labour than the poor sod who had the tortuous slog of putting it back together again but ultimately succeeded.
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