Obviously there's different degrees and types of intelligence between different animals, but what's really amazing, if you think about it, is that none of them have advanced one miilimetre in millenia, whereas humans continue to advance apace.
We are many light years ahead of even the most intelligent.
The amount of money, resources and lives we waste on warfare I sometimes wonder about that tbh, I strongly believe that mankind will be the demise of mankind.
I think comparing toddlers animals intelligence is pointless because it is a given that humans develop much slower. And also people go on a lot about man using tools then looking at birds- and they build nests. The difference is one is an instinct.
Not knocking animals' intelligences as it is fascinating. Octopuses are fascinating by that link, that they basically have same intelligence as one of the grey parrots.
Also interesting is how it is some animals develop intelligences, and then there's sheep who somehow are devoid many intelligences. I suppose their feet somewhat limit them for the scope of manipulating tools.
I think comparing toddlers animals intelligence is pointless because it is a given that humans develop much slower. And also people go on a lot about man using tools then looking at birds- and they build nests. The difference is one is an instinct.
Not knocking animals' intelligences as it is fascinating. Octopuses are fascinating by that link, that they basically have same intelligence as one of the grey parrots.
Also interesting is how it is some animals develop intelligences, and then there's sheep who somehow are devoid many intelligences. I suppose their feet somewhat limit them for the scope of manipulating tools.
I have to respectfully disagree, the idea that almost all behaviour is hardwired has become increasingly outdated.
And a five to seven year old is not a toddler. The fact is that many animals are far more intelligent than we give them credit for.
Anyway human beings display plenty of instinctive behaviour as well despite our huge brains.
I will give free doritos and dip to the first animal who can work out the chinese buttons on my widescreen telly. I'm stumped, only a psychologist's bird can master it.
I think comparing toddlers animals intelligence is pointless because it is a given that humans develop much slower. And also people go on a lot about man using tools then looking at birds- and they build nests. The difference is one is an instinct.
Not knocking animals' intelligences as it is fascinating. Octopuses are fascinating by that link, that they basically have same intelligence as one of the grey parrots.
Also interesting is how it is some animals develop intelligences, and then there's sheep who somehow are devoid many intelligences. I suppose their feet somewhat limit them for the scope of manipulating tools.
I think we make too much of the fact that a few animals make and use simple tools. Apart from the obvious difference that we make far more complex tools than any animal, Man makes them before he needs them and retains them afterwards for future use.
Intelligent maybe but lacking common sense - if it's possible for a bird to have common sense.
My neighbour has an aviary to nurse sick birds back to health (mostly crows and Jackdaws due to calcium deficiency). After only a few weeks of captivity they lose most of their fear of other humans and predators.
All of those released have stayed in the area, very very close to the aviary. When I put my washing out they stand on my feet or look at me from my clothes line just a foot from my face. It is lovely to look into the blue eyes of a Jackdaw up so close but sad because you know their days are probably numbered.
You could feed any of them by hand (I did once despite knowing I shouldn't). I try to scare them away now but after a brief flutter they come straight back. They would follow me into the house if I let them.
Intelligent maybe but lacking common sense - if it's possible for a bird to have common sense.
My neighbour has an aviary to nurse sick birds back to health (mostly crows and Jackdaws due to calcium deficiency). After only a few weeks of captivity they lose most of their fear of other humans and predators.
All of those released have stayed in the area, very very close to the aviary. When I put my washing out they stand on my feet or look at me from my clothes line just a foot from my face. It is lovely to look into the blue eyes of a Jackdaw up so close but sad because you know their days are probably numbered.
You could feed any of them by hand (I did once despite knowing I shouldn't). I try to scare them away now but after a brief flutter they come straight back. They would follow me into the house if I let them.
This could be regarded as gratitude, rather than a lack of common sense.
They never forget a kindness and conversely they are quite capable of holding grudges as well.
I think we make too much of the fact that a few animals make and use simple tools. Apart from the obvious difference that we make far more complex tools than any animal, Man makes them before he needs them and retains them afterwards for future use.
Only relatively recently, when agriculture freed us to spend time and resources into creating such objects.
Most animals have to live in the now in a constant battle for survival.
For hundreds of thousands of thousands of years a crude stone tool was the epitome of advanced Hominin technology.
Slightly tongue-in-cheek, but bear in mind that we define intelligence, so we're bound to be a bit biased!
As such, if we see an animal mimicking a human behaviour, we say "Oooh ... isn't that clever!"
Yeah, because a chimp has a fundamental need to dress up in dungarees and ride a tricycle!
We also focus on what's important to us, and sometimes forget it might not be important to animals ... and vice versa! So, we can sit there congratulating ourselves on our brilliant intelligence having invented the Sat-Nav. Meanwhile, two swallows are sitting on a telephone wire watching a couple in a car arguing about which way they should turn at a junction, and thinking to themselves "FFS! We've just flown from Africa and found our way back to the exact spot we were last year! How dumb are these humans?"
There was a three part documentary with Chris Packham that was pretty good on this very subject.
'Inside the Animal Mind'
My cat watched it intently on my lap, got up, sat 3 inches from the TV screen following every move until she jumped at the screen, knocking the TV over.
I guess that has to be considered evidence of dumbness
Does this mean that domesticated pets should start developing tools when left to their own devices (no pun intended)?
No of course not but several studies have shown that they are capable of more complex behaviour when the need for food and shelter is taken care off.
If anybody doubts we are animals - just look at any societies behaviour when subjected to extreme poverty and stress. We forget this in the cosy Western world of 21st century.
I think this thread is getting derailed somewhat.
I was referring to exceptional members of each clade, not saying they are all as clever as us.
That is clearly not the case, although the gap is far less than we would like to think.
Slightly tongue-in-cheek, but bear in mind that we define intelligence, so we're bound to be a bit biased!
As such, if we see an animal mimicking a human behaviour, we say "Oooh ... isn't that clever!"
Yeah, because a chimp has a fundamental need to dress up in dungarees and ride a tricycle!
We also focus on what's important to us, and sometimes forget it might not be important to animals ... and vice versa! So, we can sit there congratulating ourselves on our brilliant intelligence having invented the Sat-Nav. Meanwhile, two swallows are sitting on a telephone wire watching a couple in a car arguing about which way they should turn at a junction, and thinking to themselves "FFS! We've just flown from Africa and found our way back to the exact spot we were last year! How dumb are these humans?"
Very true.
..and what about dogs? Can you imagine if I went around saying I could detect cancer by smell, or sense/smell when someone was about to have a seizure or had low blood sugars. I can just hear the cries of "trickery!", "witchcraft!" and "ESP - can't be proved, not happening"
..and what about dogs? Can you imagine if I went around saying I could detect cancer by smell, or sense/smell when someone was about to have a seizure or had low blood sugars. I can just hear the cries of "trickery!", "witchcraft!" and "ESP - can't be proved, not happening"
Coughthecat and your points are very relevant.
Until very recently we have spent almost all our time looking at primate intelligence because they are so closely related to us.
For example who knows what an Octopus with it's totally alien physiology and nonsomatotopic nervous system really thinks?
Slightly tongue-in-cheek, but bear in mind that we define intelligence, so we're bound to be a bit biased!
As such, if we see an animal mimicking a human behaviour, we say "Oooh ... isn't that clever!"
Yeah, because a chimp has a fundamental need to dress up in dungarees and ride a tricycle!
We also focus on what's important to us, and sometimes forget it might not be important to animals ... and vice versa! So, we can sit there congratulating ourselves on our brilliant intelligence having invented the Sat-Nav. Meanwhile, two swallows are sitting on a telephone wire watching a couple in a car arguing about which way they should turn at a junction, and thinking to themselves "FFS! We've just flown from Africa and found our way back to the exact spot we were last year! How dumb are these humans?"
Very true Cough - I like the way Douglas Adams saw it, that we think we are more intelligent than dolphins because we have invented war & bombs, while they just frolic in the sea - and dolphins think they are more intelligent than us, for exactly the same reasons.
Comments
The Raven is called Zombie.;-) quite a star.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIX_6TBeph0
Thanks Ann. ^_^
They are lovely but Corvids delight in taking the piss out of them (and us)!
Here is a nice little article on octopus.
http://www.orionmagazine.org/index.php/articles/article/6474/
By far the best cephalopod site on the web is -
http://www.tonmo.com/community/
Which has everything one could ever want to read on these mysterious animals.
There are some great vids at the side as well.
Thank you for those glittterlady08! ^_^
The amount of money, resources and lives we waste on warfare I sometimes wonder about that tbh, I strongly believe that mankind will be the demise of mankind.
Not knocking animals' intelligences as it is fascinating. Octopuses are fascinating by that link, that they basically have same intelligence as one of the grey parrots.
Also interesting is how it is some animals develop intelligences, and then there's sheep who somehow are devoid many intelligences. I suppose their feet somewhat limit them for the scope of manipulating tools.
Me too. They are gorgeous birds.
I have to respectfully disagree, the idea that almost all behaviour is hardwired has become increasingly outdated.
And a five to seven year old is not a toddler. The fact is that many animals are far more intelligent than we give them credit for.
Anyway human beings display plenty of instinctive behaviour as well despite our huge brains.
That's my last post tonight. ^_^
Good vid... clever !
They are ..:D
Great thread Keyser..:)
Some really good vids' on the Corvids.
I could post loads on them...:)
I think we make too much of the fact that a few animals make and use simple tools. Apart from the obvious difference that we make far more complex tools than any animal, Man makes them before he needs them and retains them afterwards for future use.
My neighbour has an aviary to nurse sick birds back to health (mostly crows and Jackdaws due to calcium deficiency). After only a few weeks of captivity they lose most of their fear of other humans and predators.
All of those released have stayed in the area, very very close to the aviary. When I put my washing out they stand on my feet or look at me from my clothes line just a foot from my face. It is lovely to look into the blue eyes of a Jackdaw up so close but sad because you know their days are probably numbered.
You could feed any of them by hand (I did once despite knowing I shouldn't). I try to scare them away now but after a brief flutter they come straight back. They would follow me into the house if I let them.
This could be regarded as gratitude, rather than a lack of common sense.
They never forget a kindness and conversely they are quite capable of holding grudges as well.
Nice. I'll tell that to the local cats and foxes
Only relatively recently, when agriculture freed us to spend time and resources into creating such objects.
Most animals have to live in the now in a constant battle for survival.
For hundreds of thousands of thousands of years a crude stone tool was the epitome of advanced Hominin technology.
As such, if we see an animal mimicking a human behaviour, we say "Oooh ... isn't that clever!"
Yeah, because a chimp has a fundamental need to dress up in dungarees and ride a tricycle!
We also focus on what's important to us, and sometimes forget it might not be important to animals ... and vice versa! So, we can sit there congratulating ourselves on our brilliant intelligence having invented the Sat-Nav. Meanwhile, two swallows are sitting on a telephone wire watching a couple in a car arguing about which way they should turn at a junction, and thinking to themselves "FFS! We've just flown from Africa and found our way back to the exact spot we were last year! How dumb are these humans?"
My cat watched it intently on my lap, got up, sat 3 inches from the TV screen following every move until she jumped at the screen, knocking the TV over.
I guess that has to be considered evidence of dumbness
No of course not but several studies have shown that they are capable of more complex behaviour when the need for food and shelter is taken care off.
If anybody doubts we are animals - just look at any societies behaviour when subjected to extreme poverty and stress. We forget this in the cosy Western world of 21st century.
I think this thread is getting derailed somewhat.
I was referring to exceptional members of each clade, not saying they are all as clever as us.
That is clearly not the case, although the gap is far less than we would like to think.
..and what about dogs? Can you imagine if I went around saying I could detect cancer by smell, or sense/smell when someone was about to have a seizure or had low blood sugars. I can just hear the cries of "trickery!", "witchcraft!" and "ESP - can't be proved, not happening"
Coughthecat and your points are very relevant.
Until very recently we have spent almost all our time looking at primate intelligence because they are so closely related to us.
For example who knows what an Octopus with it's totally alien physiology and nonsomatotopic nervous system really thinks?