I personally don't think what Serena was supposed to have said was that bad . Most people probably wouldn't have paid any attention to a comment like that apart from wanting to jump on some bandwagon against someone successful
Yeah, most probably is the case. Some celebrities get jumped on for what they say, while others get excuses made for them.
Yeah, most probably is the case. Some celebrities get jumped on for what they say, while others get excuses made for them.
Really? You cannot see that attacking the victim condones the rape?
No matter what the girl did wrong, she did not ask to be violated by two men. She did not ask for them to compound that by then humiliating her further by boasting about and sharing video and photos of the rape. She did not do anything to those men.
They ruined their own futures the moment they chose to become rapists.
Serena was not misquoted, nor were her words twisted. She stated an opinion that many support - and therein lies the problem. Rather than see the girl as a victim, she'd rather view all men as potential rapists who cannot control their basest instincts.
Now, I'm not a man, but I am pretty certain if I were, I would be disgusted by anyone making an observation like that about me. I certainly would hate to think that anyone viewed my son that way. I cannot understand why more men are not offended by this obvious and blatant misandry
Really? You cannot see that attacking the victim condones the rape?
No matter what the girl did wrong, she did not ask to be violated by two men. She did not ask for them to compound that by then humiliating her further by boasting about and sharing video and photos of the rape. She did not do anything to those men.
They ruined their own futures the moment they chose to become rapists.
Serena was not misquoted, nor were her words twisted. She stated an opinion that many support - and therein lies the problem. Rather than see the girl as a victim, she'd rather view all men as potential rapists who cannot control their basest instincts.
Now, I'm not a man, but I am pretty certain if I were, I would be disgusted by anyone making an observation like that about me. I certainly would hate to think that anyone viewed my son that way. I cannot understand why more men are not offended by this obvious and blatant misandry
I think some of what Serena said was wrong. I think she might have meant generally when talking of risky situations maybe.
Thing is, saying "I'm not blaming the girl but .." is, like it or not, placing blame with the victim. I agree that she is clearly trying to offer some common sense advice, but, in my opinion, the default response in this type of case, when referring to the victim, should be that she is completely blameless - no matter what.
She could have said "Let's get one thing straight, the girl is not to blame here. Young women do need to be careful in these situations though". Something like that.
I think some of what Serena said was wrong. I think she might have meant generally when talking of risky situations maybe.
But surely the implication is still that the onus is on women to behave in a particular way because if they are not, men will rape and humiliate them? All men are rapists given the opportunity?
For shame. It's a terrible attitude to have, and I hope her male fans do not take against her, in spite of her obviously low opinion of them.
you must be American. Have you not heard of irony? As for the 'makes me no better' comment; dumb.
No i am not American. So don't generalise, not all Americans think the same regardless of what you might think. Reason why i said your comments were as bad, because there was no need for insults you could have maid your point without stooping low and making insults thats why.
I personally don't think what Serena was supposed to have said was that bad . Most people probably wouldn't have paid any attention to a comment like that apart from wanting to jump on some bandwagon against someone successful
Agreed, not sure why they even put it in the article they should not have, they knew it would cause offense
Yeah, most probably is the case. Some celebrities get jumped on for what they say, while others get excuses made for them.
I think you completely fail to understand that her opinions are offensive to many people - it wouldn't matter if the Queen of Sheba spouted them.
Anyone who claims or infers that the victim is in ANYWAY to blame should be challenged...or else we are not a million miles away from the societies that stone or hang rape victims -it's this drip, drip blame that permeates up to the judicial system that gives farcical sentences and rears it's ugly face in the abhorrent vilification of this poor girl along with the inference SHE has 'ruined' the rapists lives.
There has been a lot of garbage spoken in the US about this case of "these poor young guys" having their careers ruined because of a "mistake" they made. Since when do sleazebags and rapists deserve concern and sympathy?
Well maybe had they thought with their head and not their Knob heads they'd not be in this mess. Its ok for them though they will be out in a year, that lass will never be the same though. Can only hope these lads learn their lesson and come out changed. sad think is im sure this happens loads in professional sport you just don't hear about it except the odd case. Normally they pay the girl off.
15 year old girls shouldn't be drinking at parties to begin with. The parents of the party's host should have acted more like adults so the kids didn't take it upon themselves to act like animals. Shockingly kids do stupid stuff without adult supervision and that's why the idea of a chaperone exists.
Serena has been really nasty about Maria Sharapova too...they are having a media fight...I really hope Serena loses early at Wimbledon...A woman can get raped if she never drinks, wears a Burka and isn't allowed out unaccompanied....Being 16 is not an invitation to get raped, nor is getting drink...
Serena has been really nasty about Maria Sharapova too...they are having a media fight...I really hope Serena loses early at Wimbledon...A woman can get raped if she never drinks, wears a Burka and isn't allowed out unaccompanied....Being 16 is not an invitation to get raped, nor is getting drink...
No she as not, don't believe headlines. Serena never mentioned a name Sharapova asssumed she was being talked about and acted like a spoilt brat.
Yeah, most probably is the case. Some celebrities get jumped on for what they say, while others get excuses made for them.
Which is exactly what you're doing. You are making excuses for Serena, by saying what you think she meant to say and claiming she meant it in a non-offensive way.
Sorry it was not me who brought the media spat, and i never saw the thing about all men being rapists.
Any person who believes that it is the victim that controls whether or not a rape occurs is basically saying men cannot control themselves. She is saying that all men are potential rapists if the woman/girl they are with is too drunk, unconscious, revealing dressed or whatever.
Now, I don't believe that all men are rapists, which is why I would expect the men who are not to be deeply offended by this woman saying that they are. I would have thought that being reduced to nothing more than a brainless dolt, without enough blood in their bodies to control their brain and their penis at the same time would be as offensive to most men as her comments were to the victim.
Any person who believes that it is the victim that controls whether or not a rape occurs is basically saying men cannot control themselves. She is saying that all men are potential rapists if the woman/girl they are with is too drunk, unconscious, revealing dressed or whatever.
Now, I don't believe that all men are rapists, which is why I would expect the men who are not to be deeply offended by this woman saying that they are. I would have thought that being reduced to nothing more than a brainless dolt, without enough blood in their bodies to control their brain and their penis at the same time would be as offensive to most men as her comments were to the victim.
But she did not say that and nothing in that article, as a man got me offended to think she accuse all men of being a rapists.
She must have brothers a dad, male cousins so i doubt she would think of them as rapists.
But she did not say that and nothing in that article, as a man got me offended to think she accuse all men of being a rapists.
She must have brothers a dad, male cousins so i doubt she would think of them as rapists.
Really? I am surprised at that. You are okay with the fact that she believes that you would have sex with an unconscious 16 year old without consent, just because she was drunk and unconscious in your presence?
Really? I am surprised at that. You are okay with the fact that she believes that you would have sex with an unconscious 16 year old without consent, just because she was drunk and unconscious in your presence?
again where did she say that. did she actually say any man would have sex with a woman cause they are unconscious?
Her comments about girls taking care of themselves no way means all men are rapists.
No way would she call all men rapists when she ha a dad, brothers and is on tour with men all the time and gets on well with her fellow pro's highly doubt they would have seen that as her saying this.
Earlier there was a prog on BBC about both sisters I caught about 5 minutes where Serena was saying to someone called Sasha that his lips belonged on a black guy only black guys could have lips like that. Followed by she would only go out with black guys. She was reminded that she has been out with 2 white guys. Cut to them asking her about Sasha and she said he would never date him, the though made her want to vomit followed by about 10 'yucks'. She wasn't joking either, or it didn't come across that she was. Seems thoroughly unpleasant.
again where did she say that. did she actually say any man would have sex with a woman cause they are unconscious?
She blamed the girl for being drunk - therefore she is saying that as women, we control whether we get raped.
That means that a man cannot be expected to control himself, which means that she sees men as some kind of sub species who cannot be around a woman without automatically needing to jump on her.
again where did she say that. did she actually say any man would have sex with a woman cause they are unconscious?
It's what her views suggest loud and clear. She asks was the girl a virgin, she wonders why she allowed herself to get so drunk: those two things damn her to hell as they are attempts at rationalising/minimising what the rapists did to her.
Really? I am surprised at that. You are okay with the fact that she believes that you would have sex with an unconscious 16 year old without consent, just because she was drunk and unconscious in your presence?
I can't quite understand why some people can't grasp the fact that saying 'oh, she was a virgin' (intimating that if she wasn't then it would be okay to rape her), and that she was practically inviting rape merely by getting drunk (or what other see as saying women should be careful) means the same thing as 'men are basically rapists who have no control whatsoever'.
What this tells us is that men are beasts and women are too tempting. Which is plain rubbish. There are some men who are beasts and some women who do tempt men. But no woman deserves to be raped.
Saying 'well, she should have been more careful' is exactly the same as saying 'it was partly her fault'. No. it is NOT. In no way, shape or form.
I despair of mankind. I really do. It's attitudes like this which culminate in women who are raped (by strangers, on a date, by people they know) not reporting it for fear of being held responsible in some way for their attacker targeting them.
And, let's get one thing straight. Rape is not about sex. Rape is about power. Power over one person by another.
She blamed the girl for being drunk - therefore she is saying that as women, we control whether we get raped.
That means that a man cannot be expected to control himself, which means that she sees men as some kind of sub species who cannot be around a woman without automatically needing to jump on her.
Terrible misandry.
No it means some men can control themselves. Its like going out to a club with your mate and you tell them " I think i will leave my wallet/purse home and just take cash and maybe my card.
This does not mean you think everyone in the club is a thief, it means your just being careful and getting your mate to be careful too.
Like i said she had a dad who she gets on with so i doubt she would call him and her bro's a rapist.
Unfortunately there are someone guys who plan to rape girls, rather then either being drunk or spare of the moment.
Those type of guys can't control themselves.
We just need to agree to disagree, cause i don't and im sure you don't want to keep going on about this.
None of us Condone rape or believe that all men are rapists.
It's what her views suggest loud and clear. She asks was the girl a virgin, she wonders why she allowed herself to get so drunk: those two things damn her to hell as they are attempts at rationalising/minimising what the rapists did to her.
How can you and others on here not see that?
Thats just stupid comments that was never needed to be said, it does not say to me all men are rapists.
again like i said she has a dad, brothers and plays with a whole lot of men, if she said all men were rapists then she'd not have the respect she does for Nadal, Feds, Murray, Novak, her dad, bro's etc.
I can't quite understand why some people can't grasp the fact that saying 'oh, she was a virgin' (intimating that if she wasn't then it would be okay to rape her), and that she was practically inviting rape merely by getting drunk (or what other see as saying women should be careful) means the same thing as 'men are basically rapists who have no control whatsoever'.
What this tells us is that men are beasts and women are too tempting. Which is plain rubbish. There are some men who are beasts and some women who do tempt men. But no woman deserves to be raped.
Saying 'well, she should have been more careful' is exactly the same as saying 'it was partly her fault'. No. it is NOT. In no way, shape or form.
I despair of mankind. I really do. It's attitudes like this which culminate in women who are raped (by strangers, on a date, by people they know) not reporting it for fear of being held responsible in some way for their attacker targeting them.
And, let's get one thing straight. Rape is not about sex. Rape is about power. Power over one person by another.
I think it was "maybe she was not a virgin" But its a silly comment none the less.
She blamed the girl for being drunk - therefore she is saying that as women, we control whether we get raped.
That means that a man cannot be expected to control himself, which means that she sees men as some kind of sub species who cannot be around a woman without automatically needing to jump on her.
I can't quite understand why some people can't grasp the fact that saying 'oh, she was a virgin' (intimating that if she wasn't then it would be okay to rape her), and that she was practically inviting rape merely by getting drunk (or what other see as saying women should be careful) means the same thing as 'men are basically rapists who have no control whatsoever'.
What this tells us is that men are beasts and women are too tempting. Which is plain rubbish. There are some men who are beasts and some women who do tempt men. But no woman deserves to be raped.
Saying 'well, she should have been more careful' is exactly the same as saying 'it was partly her fault'. No. it is NOT. In no way, shape or form.
I despair of mankind. I really do. It's attitudes like this which culminate in women who are raped (by strangers, on a date, by people they know) not reporting it for fear of being held responsible in some way for their attacker targeting them.
And, let's get one thing straight. Rape is not about sex. Rape is about power. Power over one person by another.
Ah well. We tried. It doesn't seem to matter how often and how well the same points are put across, it is just not registering with some people exactly the degree of apalling judgement in Williams' comments. Whether it's an inability to understand the implication in what she said, or just plain ignorance, I can't quite work out. But then, since Williams herself can't really see what's wrong with what she said (evident in her equally apalling 'apology'), it's hardly surprising that there are people on here just as grimly deficient when it comes to understanding where the responsibility for rape lies, which is of course, only with the rapist.
Comments
Yeah, most probably is the case. Some celebrities get jumped on for what they say, while others get excuses made for them.
Really? You cannot see that attacking the victim condones the rape?
No matter what the girl did wrong, she did not ask to be violated by two men. She did not ask for them to compound that by then humiliating her further by boasting about and sharing video and photos of the rape. She did not do anything to those men.
They ruined their own futures the moment they chose to become rapists.
Serena was not misquoted, nor were her words twisted. She stated an opinion that many support - and therein lies the problem. Rather than see the girl as a victim, she'd rather view all men as potential rapists who cannot control their basest instincts.
Now, I'm not a man, but I am pretty certain if I were, I would be disgusted by anyone making an observation like that about me. I certainly would hate to think that anyone viewed my son that way. I cannot understand why more men are not offended by this obvious and blatant misandry
I think some of what Serena said was wrong. I think she might have meant generally when talking of risky situations maybe.
This basically.
But surely the implication is still that the onus is on women to behave in a particular way because if they are not, men will rape and humiliate them? All men are rapists given the opportunity?
For shame. It's a terrible attitude to have, and I hope her male fans do not take against her, in spite of her obviously low opinion of them.
No i am not American. So don't generalise, not all Americans think the same regardless of what you might think. Reason why i said your comments were as bad, because there was no need for insults you could have maid your point without stooping low and making insults thats why.
Agreed, not sure why they even put it in the article they should not have, they knew it would cause offense
I think you completely fail to understand that her opinions are offensive to many people - it wouldn't matter if the Queen of Sheba spouted them.
Anyone who claims or infers that the victim is in ANYWAY to blame should be challenged...or else we are not a million miles away from the societies that stone or hang rape victims -it's this drip, drip blame that permeates up to the judicial system that gives farcical sentences and rears it's ugly face in the abhorrent vilification of this poor girl along with the inference SHE has 'ruined' the rapists lives.
Well maybe had they thought with their head and not their Knob heads they'd not be in this mess. Its ok for them though they will be out in a year, that lass will never be the same though. Can only hope these lads learn their lesson and come out changed. sad think is im sure this happens loads in professional sport you just don't hear about it except the odd case. Normally they pay the girl off.
see where your coming from.
No she as not, don't believe headlines. Serena never mentioned a name Sharapova asssumed she was being talked about and acted like a spoilt brat.
Not a nice girl that one.
Regardless of a little media spat between those two, the fact that Serena clearly believes all men to be rapists is more than a little troubling.
Which is exactly what you're doing. You are making excuses for Serena, by saying what you think she meant to say and claiming she meant it in a non-offensive way.
Sorry it was not me who brought the media spat, and i never saw the thing about all men being rapists.
Any person who believes that it is the victim that controls whether or not a rape occurs is basically saying men cannot control themselves. She is saying that all men are potential rapists if the woman/girl they are with is too drunk, unconscious, revealing dressed or whatever.
Now, I don't believe that all men are rapists, which is why I would expect the men who are not to be deeply offended by this woman saying that they are. I would have thought that being reduced to nothing more than a brainless dolt, without enough blood in their bodies to control their brain and their penis at the same time would be as offensive to most men as her comments were to the victim.
But she did not say that and nothing in that article, as a man got me offended to think she accuse all men of being a rapists.
She must have brothers a dad, male cousins so i doubt she would think of them as rapists.
Really? I am surprised at that. You are okay with the fact that she believes that you would have sex with an unconscious 16 year old without consent, just because she was drunk and unconscious in your presence?
again where did she say that. did she actually say any man would have sex with a woman cause they are unconscious?
Her comments about girls taking care of themselves no way means all men are rapists.
No way would she call all men rapists when she ha a dad, brothers and is on tour with men all the time and gets on well with her fellow pro's highly doubt they would have seen that as her saying this.
I just think your reading too much into it.
She blamed the girl for being drunk - therefore she is saying that as women, we control whether we get raped.
That means that a man cannot be expected to control himself, which means that she sees men as some kind of sub species who cannot be around a woman without automatically needing to jump on her.
Terrible misandry.
It's what her views suggest loud and clear. She asks was the girl a virgin, she wonders why she allowed herself to get so drunk: those two things damn her to hell as they are attempts at rationalising/minimising what the rapists did to her.
How can you and others on here not see that?
I can't quite understand why some people can't grasp the fact that saying 'oh, she was a virgin' (intimating that if she wasn't then it would be okay to rape her), and that she was practically inviting rape merely by getting drunk (or what other see as saying women should be careful) means the same thing as 'men are basically rapists who have no control whatsoever'.
What this tells us is that men are beasts and women are too tempting. Which is plain rubbish. There are some men who are beasts and some women who do tempt men. But no woman deserves to be raped.
Saying 'well, she should have been more careful' is exactly the same as saying 'it was partly her fault'. No. it is NOT. In no way, shape or form.
I despair of mankind. I really do. It's attitudes like this which culminate in women who are raped (by strangers, on a date, by people they know) not reporting it for fear of being held responsible in some way for their attacker targeting them.
And, let's get one thing straight. Rape is not about sex. Rape is about power. Power over one person by another.
No it means some men can control themselves. Its like going out to a club with your mate and you tell them " I think i will leave my wallet/purse home and just take cash and maybe my card.
This does not mean you think everyone in the club is a thief, it means your just being careful and getting your mate to be careful too.
Like i said she had a dad who she gets on with so i doubt she would call him and her bro's a rapist.
Unfortunately there are someone guys who plan to rape girls, rather then either being drunk or spare of the moment.
Those type of guys can't control themselves.
We just need to agree to disagree, cause i don't and im sure you don't want to keep going on about this.
None of us Condone rape or believe that all men are rapists.
So lets just leave it there.:)
Thats just stupid comments that was never needed to be said, it does not say to me all men are rapists.
again like i said she has a dad, brothers and plays with a whole lot of men, if she said all men were rapists then she'd not have the respect she does for Nadal, Feds, Murray, Novak, her dad, bro's etc.
I think it was "maybe she was not a virgin" But its a silly comment none the less.
Ah well. We tried. It doesn't seem to matter how often and how well the same points are put across, it is just not registering with some people exactly the degree of apalling judgement in Williams' comments. Whether it's an inability to understand the implication in what she said, or just plain ignorance, I can't quite work out. But then, since Williams herself can't really see what's wrong with what she said (evident in her equally apalling 'apology'), it's hardly surprising that there are people on here just as grimly deficient when it comes to understanding where the responsibility for rape lies, which is of course, only with the rapist.