Well I think what most people use a computer for (outside of work) is quite limited.
No doubt and this move to metro and other simple UI systems is going to stop people doing more than just browsing.
Second, it's not either/or regards metro vs desktop. One is simpler or sparser in terms of UI but still plenty capable as the movement of Office to Metro shows. I would move freely between metro and desktop depending on the task and form factor at hand.
Simpler UI? It is a awful UI, i thought I was going back to 8 bit computing.
Using a laptop to do heavy research and browsing? Use a browser on the desktop. Doing some routine casual browsing in the evening? Flip my screen so laptop turns into a tablet and use a metro browser.
But why, what is there in the Metro Ui that I can't do on the desktop? i can understand the Ui being used for phones or even tablets where you are pretty limited anyway, but for a full blown computer it is just stupidity.
Office in Metro? oh my goodness, it will be awful, like something from Amiga days.
Apple got the dock, something have been part of the MAC for a few years now. Most linux have got some sort of start menu style launcher.
The Apple dock is no more a Start menu than is the Windows 7/8 taskbar launcher.
Ubuntu, which is arguably the most popular Linux, needs quite a few clicks to get to a list of all your apps, and Gnome-shell doesn't have a Start menu either.
The modern apps are a waste of time to be honest, they are poor quality, look crap and don't always do as good a job as the desktop version.
if you only use Modern Apps then you are pretty limited on what you use your computer for.
I don't suppose anyone uses only Modern apps, but some of them are useful.
I use the People app, the Music app and a few others quite often. In addition to the desktop programs.
Apple got the dock, something have been part of the MAC for a few years now. Most linux have got some sort of start menu style launcher.
The dock has been in Mac OSX since 2001. As I said before, most UI changes to OSX have been improvements. The only new thing I can think of is Launchpad, but unlike Windows 8's cartoonish tiles it's not forced on users. I have Launchpad on my Macbook Air but I never use it and you don't have to use it at all if you don't want. I think that's what MS should have done in Windows 8. They could have also released two versions - an improved Windows 7 with the tiles optional for desktop/laptop users and one with the tiles for tablet and touchscreen users.
The Apple dock is no more a Start menu than is the Windows 7/8 taskbar launcher.
Ubuntu, which is arguably the most popular Linux, needs quite a few clicks to get to a list of all your apps, and Gnome-shell doesn't have a Start menu either.
I don't suppose anyone uses only Modern apps, but some of them are useful.
I use the People app, the Music app and a few others quite often. In addition to the desktop programs.
Yes but there is an Applications button you can have on the dock which works very much like the start menu in windows 7 and can be configured to be a grid of apps a stack or a start menu like list similar to the windows way, which can be grouped into sub folders if you like. Also you can just hit cmd + space and do a very quick spotlight search if you know the name of the app you want to open
You can also go to the applications folder from to top main menu if you wanted
It's beyond stupid that microsoft have removed this type of app finder in their newest os
Edit. It's pretty hard to compare linux as there are many distros and besides you can pretty much set most linux UI's up any way you like
I think you'll find they see the problem as the other way around, by giving an option to complete disable it you're holding back where they want to take their OS in the future.
They may see it that way (in fact I am sure they do) but they have missed the point. If Metro was the default but buried deep within Control Panel was the option to switch to the non-Metro classic Start Menu/desktop setup, 90% of W8 private users either wouldn't know how to switch or wouldn't be bothered enough to want to. They might even prefer Metro (bless 'em) and may well use tablets for much of their 'computing' anyway so for them it's cool. MS would get its target market onto tiles and perhaps onto MS tablets too.
Most of the other 10% of W8 private users are probably large screen mouse-driven desktop or laptop users who spend most of their time on the desktop using proper applications (not apps!) and who will rarely if ever use Metro apps, whatever MS do. They are unlikely to go for a MS tablet in fact may be deterred from doing that simply because they are irritated by the inability to disable Metro. People like me. They are also vocal in slamming MS for not allowing the option they want - to dump Metro. By allowing such an option albeit deeply buried, all the criticism would have been avoided and W8 would have IMO been a success.
I don't know what proportion of Windows 8 sales would have gone to corporates but I am sure that far more would now be using it if there was an option to disable Metro.
The Apple dock is no more a Start menu than is the Windows 7/8 taskbar launcher.
Ubuntu, which is arguably the most popular Linux, needs quite a few clicks to get to a list of all your apps, and Gnome-shell doesn't have a Start menu either.
I never said the dock was a start menu. the dock is a dock and have been part of apple Os for years now. if you go for a apple machine, you know full well that it is going to be different, if you swap from one Apple Os to another, you know more or less what you are getting.
I admit Linux have been though a strange patch with Unbuntu and unity and also the way Gnome have gone, this is why I have now gone for Mint and Cinnamon, it have got a start type menu.
But Linux is like that again we expect it to change, with so many UIs out for it.
The problem with Windows 8 is that people think it is going to be the same as other windows and they get a shock when it is not.
I was asked yesterday by my neghbours friend if there was any way to get rid of the tile crap that is on her laptop and make it look like windows.
Her words not mine,
I don't suppose anyone uses only Modern apps, but some of them are useful.
I use the People app, the Music app and a few others quite often. In addition to the desktop programs.
i don't see the point, if you are in a Modern app, you are stuck in that app at full screen, ok you can move it to one side, but that is not really multi-tasking.
On my desktop, i can have Vegas, photoshop and sound forge running, I can go from one to the other in seconds, while sound forge is sorting out noise reduction, i can carry on with doing something in Vegas. i can also carry on a conversation with Skype if I need to, send stuff over Skype, when it works and receive stuff. all in one place.
The dock has been in Mac OSX since 2001. As I said before, most UI changes to OSX have been improvements. The only new thing I can think of is Launchpad, but unlike Windows 8's cartoonish tiles it's not forced on users. I have Launchpad on my Macbook Air but I never use it and you don't have to use it at all if you don't want. I think that's what MS should have done in Windows 8. They could have also released two versions - an improved Windows 7 with the tiles optional for desktop/laptop users and one with the tiles for tablet and touchscreen users.
I agree, they have gone some way towards it with windows 8.1, but they still want people to g into the start screen.
Why not have a option on set up asking do you want a start menu and boot to desktop or modern UI style on boot up.
Lauchpad? oh that thing which a friend of mine hates, saying that she have not been happy with the last version of OSx or was it the one before?
i have been mucking around a bit with Kdenlive and while the Ui could be better, i have found that I am getting used to it, not Vegas sadly, but then it is free.
A quick question for Windows 8 professional users.
If you are using a device with Windows 8 Pro on & have installed applications onto the desktop, are you able to load them up via Metro as a quicker form of loading ?.
The reason I am asking is because the Windows 8 Pro device that I am looking at, runs really smooth in Metro Mode, but the system does slow down slightly when going into desktop mode.
A quick question for Windows 8 professional users.
If you are using a device with Windows 8 Pro on & have installed applications onto the desktop, are you able to load them up via Metro as a quicker form of loading ?.
The reason I am asking is because the Windows 8 Pro device that I am looking at, runs really smooth in Metro Mode, but the system does slow down slightly when going into desktop mode.
Many Thanks
You can add tiles for desktop apps by going to the "All Apps" screen, right clicking (or long-pressing) the app you want and selecting "Pin to Start".
... but it will switch to desktop when you click/tap a tile to run a desktop application. So not sure if you save any time, you just have to try if there is any difference.
... but it will switch to desktop when you click/tap a tile to run a desktop application. So not sure if you save any time, you just have to try if there is any difference.
I agree, they have gone some way towards it with windows 8.1, but they still want people to g into the start screen.
Why not have a option on set up asking do you want a start menu and boot to desktop or modern UI style on boot up.
Lauchpad? oh that thing which a friend of mine hates, saying that she have not been happy with the last version of OSx or was it the one before?
They should have put the boot to desktop option in. I don't know why they didn't. I don't know anyone who uses Launchpad. The only use I could see for it would be if Apple ever made a touchscreen Mac or an iPad/Macbook hybrid.
They should have put the boot to desktop option in. I don't know why they didn't. I don't know anyone who uses Launchpad. The only use I could see for it would be if Apple ever made a touchscreen Mac or an iPad/Macbook hybrid.
There is a boot to desktop option in Windows 8.1.
If you are going to keep commenting on these threads at least do some minimal research.
They may see it that way (in fact I am sure they do) but they have missed the point. If Metro was the default but buried deep within Control Panel was the option to switch to the non-Metro classic Start Menu/desktop setup, 90% of W8 private users either wouldn't know how to switch or wouldn't be bothered enough to want to. They might even prefer Metro (bless 'em) and may well use tablets for much of their 'computing' anyway so for them it's cool. MS would get its target market onto tiles and perhaps onto MS tablets too.
Most of the other 10% of W8 private users are probably large screen mouse-driven desktop or laptop users who spend most of their time on the desktop using proper applications (not apps!) and who will rarely if ever use Metro apps, whatever MS do. They are unlikely to go for a MS tablet in fact may be deterred from doing that simply because they are irritated by the inability to disable Metro. People like me. They are also vocal in slamming MS for not allowing the option they want - to dump Metro. By allowing such an option albeit deeply buried, all the criticism would have been avoided and W8 would have IMO been a success.
I don't know what proportion of Windows 8 sales would have gone to corporates but I am sure that far more would now be using it if there was an option to disable Metro.
MS are fools for not doing the above.
I doubt very much they are fools or that you know better than them where they want to go with it. They have a long term strategy and for the vast majority of people the traditional desktop as we know it will go away and they won't notice. As a company you play to the 90% and sod the rest. MS are damned if they do - everyone hates it - and damned if they don't - they'll quickly become irrelevant for a largest percent.
I'm sure you've said before that you're dev, in that case there are two things you must know
1) How expensive it is to add even one "small" feature. In terms of QA/Docs/Product Management/Project management so it's not a simply case of just one small check box
2) Once you give people a feature it is near impossible to take it away again, look at the classic start menu option that came in XP, it's still available in Win7.
Things are not as black and white as people like to make out, I'm sure some are blinded by indignation.
I doubt very much they are fools or that you know better than them where they want to go with it. They have a long term strategy and for the vast majority of people the traditional desktop as we know it will go away and they won't notice. As a company you play to the 90% and sod the rest. MS are damned if they do - everyone hates it - and damned if they don't - they'll quickly become irrelevant for a largest percent.
I'm sure you've said before that you're dev, in that case there are two things you must know
1) How expensive it is to add even one "small" feature. In terms of QA/Docs/Product Management/Project management so it's not a simply case of just one small check box
2) Once you give people a feature it is near impossible to take it away again, look at the classic start menu option that came in XP, it's still available in Win7.
Things are not as black and white as people like to make out, I'm sure some are blinded by indignation.
Sorry but Microsoft management are fools at the moment. ( See recent xbone PR disaster for more proof )
All the windows 8 paradigm shifts are driven by sheer panic at the rapid growth and success of the iPhone/Android and iPad and the falling off the cliff of personal PC sales.
They were arrogant when project Origami failed and failed to respond to the competition of the iPhone and iPad assuming that they would go the same way ( see Steve Ballmer comments at the time when the iPhone and iPad were released )
I think people write off the traditional desktop interface at their peril.
After all a 2013 car or plane are still controlled fundamentally the same way as a 1930's car or plane. Naturally the technology is now so much better, but as the old saying goes you don't need to fix what isn't broken.
Sorry but Microsoft management are fools at the moment. ( See recent xbone PR disaster for more proof )
All the windows 8 paradigm shifts are driven by sheer panic at the rapid growth and success of the iPhone/Android and iPad and the falling off the cliff of personal PC sales.
They were arrogant when project Origami failed and failed to respond to the competition of the iPhone and iPad assuming that they would go the same way ( see Steve Ballmer comments at the time when the iPhone and iPad were released )
I think people write off the traditional desktop interface at their peril.
After all a 2013 car or plane are still controlled fundamentally the same way as a 1930's car or plane. Naturally the technology is now so much better, but as the old saying goes you don't need to fix what isn't broken.
That's an awful analogy, the biggest problem with it is cost of change and the speed at which you can iterate changes. It's more flawed in that how we drive cars is changing, did 1930s cars have Cruise Control? Semi automatic gearboxs? auto headlights/wipers? HuDs for control information? I could go on but the point is the pace of innovation is slower and more subtle but things are still changing.
Yes they failed to respond to the iPhone and iPad, they haven't don't anything touch related and aren't trying to move their business model on at all.
I do a lot of work directly with MS and I have a lot of criticisim of them around Dev Div and they way they treat community and partners but they are no fools.
edit: The more I ponder on that analogy the more foolish it seems. Congrats you've just won the award of the daftest argument against Win8 so far.
I hope the software companies of those calling MS fools are doing since they clearly have some kind of amazing insight that one of the mostly successfully companies of the last 30 years hasn't.
After all a 2013 car or plane are still controlled fundamentally the same way as a 1930's car or plane. Naturally the technology is now so much better, but as the old saying goes you don't need to fix what isn't broken.
That's not at all true. Planes now are generally "fly-by-wire" and outside of take-off and landing, the computer does a lot of the work.
The computer also does a lot of the work in a car in terms of managing and controlling the engine, e.g. combustion timing.
That's an awful analogy, the biggest problem with it is cost of change and the speed at which you can iterate changes. It's more flawed in that how we drive cars is changing, did 1930s cars have Cruise Control? Semi automatic gearboxs? auto headlights/wipers? HuDs for control information? I could go on but the point is the pace of innovation is slower and more subtle but things are still changing.
Yes they failed to respond to the iPhone and iPad, they haven't don't anything touch related and aren't trying to move their business model on at all.
I do a lot of work directly with MS and I have a lot of criticisim of them around Dev Div and they way they treat community and partners but they are no fools.
edit: The more I ponder on that analogy the more foolish it seems. Congrats you've just won the award of the daftest argument against Win8 so far.
No but these are not fundamental features they are nice to haves and over the years cars have become more refined. Auto gear boxes have been around since the late 30's btw. Recent invocations in navigation are probably the most significant recent innovation in motoring.
So what if you personally deal with Microsoft. Saying my argument is the most foolish seems to have rattled you
That's an awful analogy, the biggest problem with it is cost of change and the speed at which you can iterate changes. It's more flawed in that how we drive cars is changing, did 1930s cars have Cruise Control? Semi automatic gearboxs? auto headlights/wipers? HuDs for control information? I could go on but the point is the pace of innovation is slower and more subtle but things are still changing.
I don't think it's that bad an analogy. Yes there are enhancements to a car's user interface but they haven't made radical changes just gradual improvements.
What Microsoft have done with W8 is the equivalent suddenly changing the steering wheel back to the 2 levers that early cars had. Okay they haven't completely removed the steering wheel capability but to get it you have get a 3rd party kit to modify the car.
I hope the software companies of those calling MS fools are doing since they clearly have some kind of amazing insight that one of the mostly successfully companies of the last 30 years hasn't.
Obviously they have been fantastically successful, by a combination of being in the right place at the right time and ironically following a 'if it isn't broke don't fix it strategy' by making sure that every new OS maintained compatibility with the last and the learning curve wasn't too steep. Just what the corporate people love.
They did very well with the xbox. But in the last few years I think they have been flat lining.
Windows 8 is a panic reaction , since they've seen Apple come from near bankruptcy to being a bigger company in such a short amount of time
That's not at all true. Planes now are generally "fly-by-wire" and outside of take-off and landing, the computer does a lot of the work.
The computer also does a lot of the work in a car in terms of managing and controlling the engine, e.g. combustion timing.
It's sill a mechanism that makes the control surfaces on a plane move when the stick, or rudder pedals move.
I have a wireless optical mouse now which works much better than the old style mechanical ball mouse that was hard wired to the computer. But it does the same thing as far as the user is concerned
I don't think it's that bad an analogy. Yes there are enhancements to a car's user interface but they haven't made radical changes just gradual improvements.
What Microsoft have done with W8 is the equivalent suddenly changing the steering wheel back to the 2 levers that early cars had. Okay they haven't completely removed the steering wheel capability but to get it you have get a 3rd party kit to modify the car.
Not at all, suddenly changing the stearing wheel to levers would be like suddenly forcing everyone to replace their QWERTY keyboards with dvoark keyboards.
Windows 8 is just a progressive enhancement, do you still have a desktop? Yes. Do you still have a list of all your desktop applications? Yes.
W8 has that effect on people Navigating W8 with a mouse is awkward, but I think W8.1 fixed most of the issues. Having the start button gives one with a mouse a target in the same place as before.
Comments
No doubt and this move to metro and other simple UI systems is going to stop people doing more than just browsing.
Simpler UI? It is a awful UI, i thought I was going back to 8 bit computing.
But why, what is there in the Metro Ui that I can't do on the desktop? i can understand the Ui being used for phones or even tablets where you are pretty limited anyway, but for a full blown computer it is just stupidity.
Office in Metro? oh my goodness, it will be awful, like something from Amiga days.
The Apple dock is no more a Start menu than is the Windows 7/8 taskbar launcher.
Ubuntu, which is arguably the most popular Linux, needs quite a few clicks to get to a list of all your apps, and Gnome-shell doesn't have a Start menu either.
I don't suppose anyone uses only Modern apps, but some of them are useful.
I use the People app, the Music app and a few others quite often. In addition to the desktop programs.
The dock has been in Mac OSX since 2001. As I said before, most UI changes to OSX have been improvements. The only new thing I can think of is Launchpad, but unlike Windows 8's cartoonish tiles it's not forced on users. I have Launchpad on my Macbook Air but I never use it and you don't have to use it at all if you don't want. I think that's what MS should have done in Windows 8. They could have also released two versions - an improved Windows 7 with the tiles optional for desktop/laptop users and one with the tiles for tablet and touchscreen users.
Yes but there is an Applications button you can have on the dock which works very much like the start menu in windows 7 and can be configured to be a grid of apps a stack or a start menu like list similar to the windows way, which can be grouped into sub folders if you like. Also you can just hit cmd + space and do a very quick spotlight search if you know the name of the app you want to open
You can also go to the applications folder from to top main menu if you wanted
It's beyond stupid that microsoft have removed this type of app finder in their newest os
Edit. It's pretty hard to compare linux as there are many distros and besides you can pretty much set most linux UI's up any way you like
They may see it that way (in fact I am sure they do) but they have missed the point. If Metro was the default but buried deep within Control Panel was the option to switch to the non-Metro classic Start Menu/desktop setup, 90% of W8 private users either wouldn't know how to switch or wouldn't be bothered enough to want to. They might even prefer Metro (bless 'em) and may well use tablets for much of their 'computing' anyway so for them it's cool. MS would get its target market onto tiles and perhaps onto MS tablets too.
Most of the other 10% of W8 private users are probably large screen mouse-driven desktop or laptop users who spend most of their time on the desktop using proper applications (not apps!) and who will rarely if ever use Metro apps, whatever MS do. They are unlikely to go for a MS tablet in fact may be deterred from doing that simply because they are irritated by the inability to disable Metro. People like me. They are also vocal in slamming MS for not allowing the option they want - to dump Metro. By allowing such an option albeit deeply buried, all the criticism would have been avoided and W8 would have IMO been a success.
I don't know what proportion of Windows 8 sales would have gone to corporates but I am sure that far more would now be using it if there was an option to disable Metro.
MS are fools for not doing the above.
I never said the dock was a start menu. the dock is a dock and have been part of apple Os for years now. if you go for a apple machine, you know full well that it is going to be different, if you swap from one Apple Os to another, you know more or less what you are getting.
I admit Linux have been though a strange patch with Unbuntu and unity and also the way Gnome have gone, this is why I have now gone for Mint and Cinnamon, it have got a start type menu.
But Linux is like that again we expect it to change, with so many UIs out for it.
The problem with Windows 8 is that people think it is going to be the same as other windows and they get a shock when it is not.
I was asked yesterday by my neghbours friend if there was any way to get rid of the tile crap that is on her laptop and make it look like windows.
Her words not mine,
i don't see the point, if you are in a Modern app, you are stuck in that app at full screen, ok you can move it to one side, but that is not really multi-tasking.
On my desktop, i can have Vegas, photoshop and sound forge running, I can go from one to the other in seconds, while sound forge is sorting out noise reduction, i can carry on with doing something in Vegas. i can also carry on a conversation with Skype if I need to, send stuff over Skype, when it works and receive stuff. all in one place.
Try doing that in the modern UI.
I can also keep a eye on emails as well.
I agree, they have gone some way towards it with windows 8.1, but they still want people to g into the start screen.
Why not have a option on set up asking do you want a start menu and boot to desktop or modern UI style on boot up.
Lauchpad? oh that thing which a friend of mine hates, saying that she have not been happy with the last version of OSx or was it the one before?
i have been mucking around a bit with Kdenlive and while the Ui could be better, i have found that I am getting used to it, not Vegas sadly, but then it is free.
i have also got it doing Hd pretty well.
If you are using a device with Windows 8 Pro on & have installed applications onto the desktop, are you able to load them up via Metro as a quicker form of loading ?.
The reason I am asking is because the Windows 8 Pro device that I am looking at, runs really smooth in Metro Mode, but the system does slow down slightly when going into desktop mode.
Many Thanks
You can add tiles for desktop apps by going to the "All Apps" screen, right clicking (or long-pressing) the app you want and selecting "Pin to Start".
Thanks for the advice
They should have put the boot to desktop option in. I don't know why they didn't. I don't know anyone who uses Launchpad. The only use I could see for it would be if Apple ever made a touchscreen Mac or an iPad/Macbook hybrid.
There is a boot to desktop option in Windows 8.1.
If you are going to keep commenting on these threads at least do some minimal research.
I doubt very much they are fools or that you know better than them where they want to go with it. They have a long term strategy and for the vast majority of people the traditional desktop as we know it will go away and they won't notice. As a company you play to the 90% and sod the rest. MS are damned if they do - everyone hates it - and damned if they don't - they'll quickly become irrelevant for a largest percent.
I'm sure you've said before that you're dev, in that case there are two things you must know
1) How expensive it is to add even one "small" feature. In terms of QA/Docs/Product Management/Project management so it's not a simply case of just one small check box
2) Once you give people a feature it is near impossible to take it away again, look at the classic start menu option that came in XP, it's still available in Win7.
Things are not as black and white as people like to make out, I'm sure some are blinded by indignation.
Sorry but Microsoft management are fools at the moment. ( See recent xbone PR disaster for more proof )
All the windows 8 paradigm shifts are driven by sheer panic at the rapid growth and success of the iPhone/Android and iPad and the falling off the cliff of personal PC sales.
They were arrogant when project Origami failed and failed to respond to the competition of the iPhone and iPad assuming that they would go the same way ( see Steve Ballmer comments at the time when the iPhone and iPad were released )
I think people write off the traditional desktop interface at their peril.
After all a 2013 car or plane are still controlled fundamentally the same way as a 1930's car or plane. Naturally the technology is now so much better, but as the old saying goes you don't need to fix what isn't broken.
I read about the boot to desktop option, but I was talking about Windows 8, not 8.1.
That's an awful analogy, the biggest problem with it is cost of change and the speed at which you can iterate changes. It's more flawed in that how we drive cars is changing, did 1930s cars have Cruise Control? Semi automatic gearboxs? auto headlights/wipers? HuDs for control information? I could go on but the point is the pace of innovation is slower and more subtle but things are still changing.
Yes they failed to respond to the iPhone and iPad, they haven't don't anything touch related and aren't trying to move their business model on at all.
I do a lot of work directly with MS and I have a lot of criticisim of them around Dev Div and they way they treat community and partners but they are no fools.
edit: The more I ponder on that analogy the more foolish it seems. Congrats you've just won the award of the daftest argument against Win8 so far.
That's not at all true. Planes now are generally "fly-by-wire" and outside of take-off and landing, the computer does a lot of the work.
The computer also does a lot of the work in a car in terms of managing and controlling the engine, e.g. combustion timing.
No but these are not fundamental features they are nice to haves and over the years cars have become more refined. Auto gear boxes have been around since the late 30's btw. Recent invocations in navigation are probably the most significant recent innovation in motoring.
So what if you personally deal with Microsoft. Saying my argument is the most foolish seems to have rattled you
I don't think it's that bad an analogy. Yes there are enhancements to a car's user interface but they haven't made radical changes just gradual improvements.
What Microsoft have done with W8 is the equivalent suddenly changing the steering wheel back to the 2 levers that early cars had. Okay they haven't completely removed the steering wheel capability but to get it you have get a 3rd party kit to modify the car.
Obviously they have been fantastically successful, by a combination of being in the right place at the right time and ironically following a 'if it isn't broke don't fix it strategy' by making sure that every new OS maintained compatibility with the last and the learning curve wasn't too steep. Just what the corporate people love.
They did very well with the xbox. But in the last few years I think they have been flat lining.
Windows 8 is a panic reaction , since they've seen Apple come from near bankruptcy to being a bigger company in such a short amount of time
It's sill a mechanism that makes the control surfaces on a plane move when the stick, or rudder pedals move.
I have a wireless optical mouse now which works much better than the old style mechanical ball mouse that was hard wired to the computer. But it does the same thing as far as the user is concerned
Not at all, suddenly changing the stearing wheel to levers would be like suddenly forcing everyone to replace their QWERTY keyboards with dvoark keyboards.
Windows 8 is just a progressive enhancement, do you still have a desktop? Yes. Do you still have a list of all your desktop applications? Yes.
I think you're being a bit over the top.
W8 has that effect on people