Age does have something to do with it, look at the little kiddie who was produced by IVF to a 70 year old woman who has subsequently died and the 2yr old is an orphan, how utterly selfish of that woman.
Sexuality whatever the orientation does also have something to do with it, two of the same gender CANNOT have children, and there biggest sacrifice for their choice has to be the fact they cannot have children in what is perceived as the normal way.
For a male/female relationship if they cant have children the normal way they have options (medical intervention - IVF) or adoption
What stikes me is that by "purchasing" a child that its something of a commodity because its something that they want. We all want something but cant always have it and have to accept that as part of life. Some people wont take that as a no and look at other avenues to finally get what they want. Some people pay a hefty price for there choices and accept that there are consequences to those choices. Some refuse to do that and when it comes down to buying becuase they can and want to makes me angry indeed.
For all those kiddies out there that want a loving home and parents and family that need adopting Elton and David could have surely gone down that avenue (unless age was against him not sure and we ont know either)
Mind you with my cynical hat on, they know what they are getting a newborn without any hangups, much easier I guess
What is so 'enlightened' about paying some (no doubt impoverished) woman to incubate a child for you and then play no part in his life while he is raised by paid staff? If it is bigoted and ignorant to suggest that babies should not be traded like commodities and women not exploited then I'm with the puritans.
Why don't you read my comment in context? See the quote above that I highlighted earlier? Does that help answer your question? That someone thinks a gay couple having a child via surrogate is perverted and twisted is a view I find bigoted and ignorant.
Age does have something to do with it, look at the little kiddie who was produced by IVF to a 70 year old woman who has subsequently died and the 2yr old is an orphan, how utterly selfish of that woman.
Sexuality whatever the orientation does also have something to do with it, two of the same gender CANNOT have children, and there biggest sacrifice for their choice has to be the fact they cannot have children in what is perceived as the normal way.
For a male/female relationship if they cant have children the normal way they have options (medical intervention - IVF) or adoption
What stikes me is that by "purchasing" a child that its something of a commodity because its something that they want. We all want something but cant always have it and have to accept that as part of life. Some people wont take that as a no and look at other avenues to finally get what they want. Some people pay a hefty price for there choices and accept that there are consequences to those choices. Some refuse to do that and when it comes down to buying becuase they can and want to makes me angry indeed.
For all those kiddies out there that want a loving home and parents and family that need adopting Elton and David could have surely gone down that avenue (unless age was against him not sure and we ont know either)
Mind you with my cynical hat on, they know what they are getting a newborn without any hangups, much easier I guess
A perfectly healthy 30 year old with kids could be killed by a speeding car. Should no one have children on account we all could die leaving young children parentless?
& No, sexuality does not mean you can't have children, surrogacy and adoption are all viable ways. Being a parent is in more than biology. True parents are the ones who take care and provide for the children.
Why don't you read my comment in context? See the quote above that I highlighted earlier? Does that help answer your question? That someone thinks a gay couple having a child via surrogate is perverted and twisted is a view I find bigoted and ignorant.
I have read your comments in the context of all your posts on the topic - for example, your stated belief that they will be excellent parents. I would suggest that there is absolutely no evidence they will be. They are using their money to buy a baby in a jurisdiction which permits such reprehensible behaviour. I find that a poor indicator of excellent parenting skills. It is nothing to do with sexuality and all to do with selfish exploitation.
I have read your comments in the context of all your posts on the topic - for example, your stated belief that they will be excellent parents. I would suggest that there is absolutely no evidence they will be. They are using their money to buy a baby in a jurisdiction which permits such reprehensible behaviour. I find that a poor indicator of excellent parenting skills. It is nothing to do with sexuality and all to do with selfish exploitation.
We'll just have to agree to disagree in that case since that level of puritanical judgement is a foreign country to me.
This thread makes me feel like I've fallen into some repressed time-warp. Depressing.
A perfectly healthy 30 year old with kids could be killed by a speeding car. Should no one have children on account we all could die leaving young children parentless?
& No, sexuality does not mean you can't have children, surrogacy and adoption are all viable ways. Being a parent is in more than biology. True parents are the ones who take care and provide for the children.
If it were not for biology dear none of us would be here!
We'll just have to agree to disagree in that case since that level of puritanical judgement is a foreign country to me.
This thread makes me feel like I've fallen into some repressed time-warp. Depressing.
Its not a repressed time warp at all its that people have different views some we agree with some we dont, I for one dont agree with it. Why bypass kiddies in homes or being fostered, yes some may have issues some may not, just seems to me an easy option for the "perfect" family next thing we know its a blue eyed boy and then they will have the perfect daughter - bought for cash of course
If it were not for biology dear none of us would be here!
Don't patronize me. I said 'more than biology' which clearly implies that biology is an element in reproducing. However it's not the only element required to be a good loving parent. Making a baby and being a parent aren't always the same thing.
Don't patronize me. I said 'more than biology' which clearly implies that biology is an element in reproducing. However it's not the only element required to be a good loving parent.
A perfectly healthy 30 year old with kids could be killed by a speeding car. Should no one have children on account we all could die leaving young children parentless?
& No, sexuality does not mean you can't have children, surrogacy and adoption are all viable ways. Being a parent is in more than biology. True parents are the ones who take care and provide for the children.
How about poor Jade Goody who had her children very young and then died at 27? Life doesn't always turn out how we plan it and sometimes we just have to go with what we think is right for us.
Not something I'd choose to do but it's obviously something they've thought long and hard about and I'm sure there are plans in place should the worst happen - good luck to them.
But then what do I know? As I've had a child 'out of wedlock' (as they said in the m,iddle ages), I'm sure there are some on here who would say my opinion doesn't count
No, just because a child isn't biologically yours doesn't mean that you can't be a good parent and love that child.
I am not disputing parenting what I am saying is because for clearly obvious reasons they can't biologically have kids they go and buy one? Utterly selfish bet Elton threw some right tantrums when he was a kid in the sweet shop!
Will we end up at the stage where the cuter the kid the higher the price? Or colour of hair, or eyes or height, exchanging money for a human being is out of order. Whether you agree or not I really dont give a flying fig.
We'll just have to agree to disagree in that case since that level of puritanical judgement is a foreign country to me.
This thread makes me feel like I've fallen into some repressed time-warp. Depressing.
If they went out and used their money to buy a kidney or other organ from someone in the Third World would I be a 'Puritan' for condemning that behaviour? Why is buying a baby not equally repugnant?
A perfectly healthy 30 year old with kids could be killed by a speeding car. Should no one have children on account we all could die leaving young children parentless?
& No, sexuality does not mean you can't have children, surrogacy and adoption are all viable ways. Being a parent is in more than biology. True parents are the ones who take care and provide for the children.
Read my post AGAIN I am refering to a 70 year old woman who had IVF because she wanted to be a mum and then died within two years of giving birth to the child, all relatives were already dead becuase of their age! Once again money was exchanged and selfishness intervenes
Bit different to a 30 year old dont you think? You do the maths!
Read my post AGAIN I am refering to a 70 year old woman who had IVF because she wanted to be a mum and then died within two years of giving birth to the child, all relatives were already dead becuase of their age! Once again money was exchanged and selfishness intervenes
Bit different to a 30 year old dont you think? You do the maths!
Which case was this, have you got a link? Because the only case I remember where a pensioner had IVF and then dies within 2 years was the one in Spain who had twins. yes, it weas a very sad case but she had many living relatives and the babies were adopted after her death by her nephew and his wife who were in their 30's
Which case was this, have you got a link? Because the only case I remember where a pensioner had IVF and then dies within 2 years was the one in Spain who had twins. yes, it weas a very sad case but she had many living relatives and the babies were adopted after her death by her nephew and his wife who were in their 30's
Gosh see if I can find it I recall it was a lady either in Spain or Italy, it was a couple of years ago if I recall. All I know is there was uproar and it was in the news that the little girl was now an orphan
I am not disputing parenting what I am saying is because for clearly obvious reasons they can't biologically have kids they go and buy one? Utterly selfish bet Elton threw some right tantrums when he was a kid in the sweet shop!
Will we end up at the stage where the cuter the kid the higher the price? Or colour of hair, or eyes or height, exchanging money for a human being is out of order. Whether you agree or not I really dont give a flying fig.
They didn't just head to a store (or an orphanage) and 'buy' a baby. Plenty of childless couples use surrogate mothers when biology isn't an option - Elton and David are just doing exactly the same.
Do you consider other parents who use surrogacy to be selfish as well?
Gosh see if I can find it I recall it was a lady either in Spain or Italy, it was a couple of years ago if I recall. All I know is there was uproar and it was in the news that the little girl was now an orphan
I believe she was in her 70s and, it seems, completely alone - she developed incurable cancer, a disease that can affect anyone of any age. Elton is 62 and David 48. They have most likely many years ahead of them with their son.
They didn't just head to a store (or an orphanage) and 'buy' a baby. Plenty of childless couples use surrogate mothers when biology isn't an option - Elton and David are just doing exactly the same.
Do you consider other parents who use surrogacy to be selfish as well?
To be honest yes I do, simple as that, of course there will be uproar about my answer but thats the way I view it, sorry folks
Give a family home to those that dont have one, there are thousands out there and the appeals go out always just before xmas, why overlook them?
Age does have something to do with it, look at the little kiddie who was produced by IVF to a 70 year old woman who has subsequently died and the 2yr old is an orphan, how utterly selfish of that woman.
Sexuality whatever the orientation does also have something to do with it, two of the same gender CANNOT have children, and there biggest sacrifice for their choice has to be the fact they cannot have children in what is perceived as the normal way.
For a male/female relationship if they cant have children the normal way they have options (medical intervention - IVF) or adoption
What stikes me is that by "purchasing" a child that its something of a commodity because its something that they want. We all want something but cant always have it and have to accept that as part of life. Some people wont take that as a no and look at other avenues to finally get what they want. Some people pay a hefty price for there choices and accept that there are consequences to those choices. Some refuse to do that and when it comes down to buying becuase they can and want to makes me angry indeed.
For all those kiddies out there that want a loving home and parents and family that need adopting Elton and David could have surely gone down that avenue (unless age was against him not sure and we ont know either)
Mind you with my cynical hat on, they know what they are getting a newborn without any hangups, much easier I guess
Homosexuality isn't a choice - it is who you are and pre-determined before birth. Homosexuals have just the same desire to be parents as anyone else and they should have the same rights to become parents if they can provide a loving home - which I do not doubt Elton and David will.
I believe she was in her 70s and, it seems, completely alone - she developed incurable cancer, a disease that can affect anyone of any age. Elton is 62 and David 48. They have most likely many years ahead of them with their son.
Thats the one, but I cant find anything online, the only one I can find is this one, and seems this lady is stil alive although does want another
They didn't just head to a store (or an orphanage) and 'buy' a baby. Plenty of childless couples use surrogate mothers when biology isn't an option - Elton and David are just doing exactly the same.
Do you consider other parents who use surrogacy to be selfish as well?
Surrogacy in the Uk is quite different to the US. In the UK it is unlawful if more than basic expenses are paid to the mother. In reality this means that most UK surrogates are related/known to the couple and do it for altruistic reasons. In the US the majority of surrogates are poor, uneducated women who do it for the money as there is no restriction on payment in some states, so it really does involve 'buying' a child and exploiting the mother. More to the point it has profound psychological implications for the child's identity later in life. I'm afraid the very fact that Elton and David have gone to the US for this child leads me to believe substantial money has changed hands and, yes, it's selfish!
Comments
Age does have something to do with it, look at the little kiddie who was produced by IVF to a 70 year old woman who has subsequently died and the 2yr old is an orphan, how utterly selfish of that woman.
Sexuality whatever the orientation does also have something to do with it, two of the same gender CANNOT have children, and there biggest sacrifice for their choice has to be the fact they cannot have children in what is perceived as the normal way.
For a male/female relationship if they cant have children the normal way they have options (medical intervention - IVF) or adoption
What stikes me is that by "purchasing" a child that its something of a commodity because its something that they want. We all want something but cant always have it and have to accept that as part of life. Some people wont take that as a no and look at other avenues to finally get what they want. Some people pay a hefty price for there choices and accept that there are consequences to those choices. Some refuse to do that and when it comes down to buying becuase they can and want to makes me angry indeed.
For all those kiddies out there that want a loving home and parents and family that need adopting Elton and David could have surely gone down that avenue (unless age was against him not sure and we ont know either)
Mind you with my cynical hat on, they know what they are getting a newborn without any hangups, much easier I guess
Why don't you read my comment in context? See the quote above that I highlighted earlier? Does that help answer your question? That someone thinks a gay couple having a child via surrogate is perverted and twisted is a view I find bigoted and ignorant.
& No, sexuality does not mean you can't have children, surrogacy and adoption are all viable ways. Being a parent is in more than biology. True parents are the ones who take care and provide for the children.
I have read your comments in the context of all your posts on the topic - for example, your stated belief that they will be excellent parents. I would suggest that there is absolutely no evidence they will be. They are using their money to buy a baby in a jurisdiction which permits such reprehensible behaviour. I find that a poor indicator of excellent parenting skills. It is nothing to do with sexuality and all to do with selfish exploitation.
Poor kid.
We'll just have to agree to disagree in that case since that level of puritanical judgement is a foreign country to me.
This thread makes me feel like I've fallen into some repressed time-warp. Depressing.
If it were not for biology dear none of us would be here!
Its not a repressed time warp at all its that people have different views some we agree with some we dont, I for one dont agree with it. Why bypass kiddies in homes or being fostered, yes some may have issues some may not, just seems to me an easy option for the "perfect" family next thing we know its a blue eyed boy and then they will have the perfect daughter - bought for cash of course
Don't patronize me. I said 'more than biology' which clearly implies that biology is an element in reproducing. However it's not the only element required to be a good loving parent. Making a baby and being a parent aren't always the same thing.
But it helps!
No, just because a child isn't biologically yours doesn't mean that you can't be a good parent and love that child.
How about poor Jade Goody who had her children very young and then died at 27? Life doesn't always turn out how we plan it and sometimes we just have to go with what we think is right for us.
Not something I'd choose to do but it's obviously something they've thought long and hard about and I'm sure there are plans in place should the worst happen - good luck to them.
But then what do I know? As I've had a child 'out of wedlock' (as they said in the m,iddle ages), I'm sure there are some on here who would say my opinion doesn't count
I am not disputing parenting what I am saying is because for clearly obvious reasons they can't biologically have kids they go and buy one? Utterly selfish bet Elton threw some right tantrums when he was a kid in the sweet shop!
Will we end up at the stage where the cuter the kid the higher the price? Or colour of hair, or eyes or height, exchanging money for a human being is out of order. Whether you agree or not I really dont give a flying fig.
If they went out and used their money to buy a kidney or other organ from someone in the Third World would I be a 'Puritan' for condemning that behaviour? Why is buying a baby not equally repugnant?
Read my post AGAIN I am refering to a 70 year old woman who had IVF because she wanted to be a mum and then died within two years of giving birth to the child, all relatives were already dead becuase of their age! Once again money was exchanged and selfishness intervenes
Bit different to a 30 year old dont you think? You do the maths!
Which case was this, have you got a link? Because the only case I remember where a pensioner had IVF and then dies within 2 years was the one in Spain who had twins. yes, it weas a very sad case but she had many living relatives and the babies were adopted after her death by her nephew and his wife who were in their 30's
Gosh see if I can find it I recall it was a lady either in Spain or Italy, it was a couple of years ago if I recall. All I know is there was uproar and it was in the news that the little girl was now an orphan
They didn't just head to a store (or an orphanage) and 'buy' a baby. Plenty of childless couples use surrogate mothers when biology isn't an option - Elton and David are just doing exactly the same.
Do you consider other parents who use surrogacy to be selfish as well?
I believe she was in her 70s and, it seems, completely alone - she developed incurable cancer, a disease that can affect anyone of any age. Elton is 62 and David 48. They have most likely many years ahead of them with their son.
To be honest yes I do, simple as that, of course there will be uproar about my answer but thats the way I view it, sorry folks
Give a family home to those that dont have one, there are thousands out there and the appeals go out always just before xmas, why overlook them?
Homosexuality isn't a choice - it is who you are and pre-determined before birth. Homosexuals have just the same desire to be parents as anyone else and they should have the same rights to become parents if they can provide a loving home - which I do not doubt Elton and David will.
Thats the one, but I cant find anything online, the only one I can find is this one, and seems this lady is stil alive although does want another
http://www.closeronline.co.uk/RealLife/Reallifestories/mum-at-70.aspx
They are probably considered too old to adopt, I believe the cut-off age is relatively low. For all we know, maybe they have tried to adopt.
Surrogacy in the Uk is quite different to the US. In the UK it is unlawful if more than basic expenses are paid to the mother. In reality this means that most UK surrogates are related/known to the couple and do it for altruistic reasons. In the US the majority of surrogates are poor, uneducated women who do it for the money as there is no restriction on payment in some states, so it really does involve 'buying' a child and exploiting the mother. More to the point it has profound psychological implications for the child's identity later in life. I'm afraid the very fact that Elton and David have gone to the US for this child leads me to believe substantial money has changed hands and, yes, it's selfish!