Agree thats one of my main problems with this ending,
- The fact that Jane turned completely cold and protected Bobby for a year (yes its her son but come on she managed to hide this from Ian and managed to not feel guilty about marrying him until she received a card from lauren)
- Ian forgave her, don't get me wrong Adam played the Ian characters emotion brilliantly but the writing team need to look in the mirror here, Ian in the space of one evening managed to find out his daughter had been killed, how she'd been killed, and then managed to not hate Jane at all for it and managed to forgive Bobby for it
- Jane managed to convince Bobby that he hadn't done it to the point where he believes her? Come on... this is the worst part for me i mean seriously no matter how hard you think about this its still ridiculous. Right so let me get this straight, an 11 year old child (by this age the majority of kids have a good amount of common sense and understanding with how the world works) attacks lucy with a jewellery box. He then calls Jane to tell her, when jane arrives Bobby see's Jane feel Lucys pulse and does not at any point during this see Lucy move etc. , he then doesn't wait around to see she's ok? If that was one of my family members I'd at least wait to see them open their eyes or something. Okay and then he finds out very soon from here that Lucy was killed/murdered that night, and here's the biggest part of all, SHE WAS KILLED BY A BLOW TO THE HEAD (this was common knowledge) yet he can't piece together that him wacking her over the head to the point where he didn't see her get up killed her? Its actually an insult to 11 year old kids to paint it this way. The majority of kids would be in an absolute FRENZY for a year not knowing what had happpened and they'd certainly blurt it out at least once to their dad and/or brother/sister. This was meant to be emotional/shocking but also MAKE SENSE dtc repeatedly said it would make sense but for me it lacked sense.
- Last, but by no means least, and this is the big one for me and probably the single biggest reason why I found the ending a dud, Bobby Beale was not shown to us over the last year at all. I literally know close to nothing about the lad, I don't have a clue whether I like him or not therefore him being revealed as the killer just did nothing for me. It would be like having a storyline where we see a main character become pregnant and we aren't sure who the father is, is it danny dyer? is it Ian Beale? Is it Phil Mitchell? is it Max Branning? oh wait NO ITS A BIG HUGE SHOCK ITS ... the postman down the road who we occasionally see delivering the post.. hmm I wonder if he's nice or not? I don't know , so therefore I don't know how I feel about him making that girl pregnant hmm... nvm who cares! That was probably a terrible analogy but I hope you see where I'm coming from.
Excellent post. Bobby knows he's done it. He can't not. I know DTC says he doesn't but he is just setting up a story for the future where it is revealed that he knows he killed Lucy. Age 10 is the age of criminal responsibility. It is not an age plucked out of thin air but one based on the development of a child. Too much discussion around this is talking about Bobby as though he is about 7/8. I can understand why folks are applying their own interpretation onto Bobby as they know absolutely nothing about him - zilch. He is a blank canvas so they are free to rationalise the storyline and 'making' him a young child is one way to do it.
Given that nobody upstairs heard Bobby and Lucy there was clearly no major argument. He went down and clobbered her on the head. He intended to hurt her. Did he intend GBH? If he did he is guilty of murder.
As for Jane as you say with her it is the actions afterwards not the desire to want to protect Bobby that is the issue. If she had woken Ian & Denise and they had decided to cover up it would make sense. BUT doing what she did and carrying on as normal immediately afterwards is so callous. She even had sex with Ian on the floor in the spot Lucy died a few days later. Sick. Jake went to prison. Was she really prepared for him to go down for murder to protect herself and Bobby?
This storyline has so many holes in it but for me it is the attempt to make an emotional story out of a grotesque act that is so poor. The audience of EE is being desensitized. How many murderers or accomplices are wandering around now.
Why didn’t Masood suspect anything, when Jane must have been gone for a considerable time (go to the Beales, find the body, talk to Bobby, get him to bed, get Lucy in the car, drive to the common, carry her body out there, sit with her for however long, walk back to the car, get back to Masood’s)?
Maybe he went to bed. But I agree it seems a big red flag for the police.
Agree thats one of my main problems with this ending,
- The fact that Jane turned completely cold and protected Bobby for a year (yes its her son but come on she managed to hide this from Ian and managed to not feel guilty about marrying him until she received a card from lauren)
- Ian forgave her, don't get me wrong Adam played the Ian characters emotion brilliantly but the writing team need to look in the mirror here, Ian in the space of one evening managed to find out his daughter had been killed, how she'd been killed, and then managed to not hate Jane at all for it and managed to forgive Bobby for it
- Jane managed to convince Bobby that he hadn't done it to the point where he believes her? Come on... this is the worst part for me i mean seriously no matter how hard you think about this its still ridiculous. Right so let me get this straight, an 11 year old child (by this age the majority of kids have a good amount of common sense and understanding with how the world works) attacks lucy with a jewellery box. He then calls Jane to tell her, when jane arrives Bobby see's Jane feel Lucys pulse and does not at any point during this see Lucy move etc. , he then doesn't wait around to see she's ok? If that was one of my family members I'd at least wait to see them open their eyes or something. Okay and then he finds out very soon from here that Lucy was killed/murdered that night, and here's the biggest part of all, SHE WAS KILLED BY A BLOW TO THE HEAD (this was common knowledge) yet he can't piece together that him wacking her over the head to the point where he didn't see her get up killed her? Its actually an insult to 11 year old kids to paint it this way. The majority of kids would be in an absolute FRENZY for a year not knowing what had happpened and they'd certainly blurt it out at least once to their dad and/or brother/sister. This was meant to be emotional/shocking but also MAKE SENSE dtc repeatedly said it would make sense but for me it lacked sense.
- Last, but by no means least, and this is the big one for me and probably the single biggest reason why I found the ending a dud, Bobby Beale was not shown to us over the last year at all. I literally know close to nothing about the lad, I don't have a clue whether I like him or not therefore him being revealed as the killer just did nothing for me. It would be like having a storyline where we see a main character become pregnant and we aren't sure who the father is, is it danny dyer? is it Ian Beale? Is it Phil Mitchell? is it Max Branning? oh wait NO ITS A BIG HUGE SHOCK ITS ... the postman down the road who we occasionally see delivering the post.. hmm I wonder if he's nice or not? I don't know , so therefore I don't know how I feel about him making that girl pregnant hmm... nvm who cares! That was probably a terrible analogy but I hope you see where I'm coming from.
Surely Bobby would have told his dad about hitting her and shared his worries that he hit her at some point in the aftermath? Unless he doesn't feel guilty about it and is in fact one messed up kid?
Surely Bobby would have told his dad about hitting her and shared his worries that he hit her at some point in the aftermath? Unless he doesn't feel guilty about it and is in fact one messed up kid?
That's why he got moved out by Jane. But I agree , more than likely he would have said something when he came back.
I don't understand everyone complaining about the case file and lack of clues. If they put Bobby in there it would have stuck out a mile. How could he have moved the body? What was his motive?
Anyway , in effect , it was Jane and a whole bunch of people who hit her that night. Jane's not stock free in this. She should have called an ambulance.
mattxfactor Agree totally with your post. I wrote somewhere (god knows which thread, I've lost track) that to have Ian accept that Bobby killed his daughter and then decide to keep it a secret in the space of half an hour was ridiculous. They could have shown Ian struggling with his conscience for days or weeks and needing to be away from Jane and Bobby whilst he tried to work out what to do. But no, the 10 months of angst and pain at lucy's death was neatly wrapped up in half an hour.
Jane's character has also been destroyed ; her actions were not those of a caring or compassionate woman, but of one who can see no wrong in her child. I've read so many posts where people are actually justifying her actions saying any mother would do the same. I disagree. As a parent, it is your responsibility to teach your child right and wrong, and yes sometimes bad things happen but you need to teach your child that they have to step up and take responsibility. I would argue that if you truly love your child you would teach them that actions have consequences and if you do something wrong you must be punished for that. And I know this is only a story, but imagine if you read in the paper that a mother had covered up for her son when he killed a girl in an argument would you still be sitting there saying ' oh well that's perfectly understandable? ' of course not! There would be outrage against the mother!
mattxfactor Agree totally with your post. I wrote somewhere (god knows which thread, I've lost track) that to have Ian accept that Bobby killed his daughter and then decide to keep it a secret in the space of half an hour was ridiculous. They could have shown Ian struggling with his conscience for days or weeks and needing to be away from Jane and Bobby whilst he tried to work out what to do. But no, the 10 months of angst and pain at lucy's death was neatly wrapped up in half an hour.
Jane's character has also been destroyed ; her actions were not those of a caring or compassionate woman, but of one who can see no wrong in her child. I've read so many posts where people are actually justifying her actions saying any mother would do the same. I disagree. As a parent, it is your responsibility to teach your child right and wrong, and yes sometimes bad things happen but you need to teach your child that they have to step up and take responsibility. I would argue that if you truly love your child you would teach them that actions have consequences and if you do something wrong you must be punished for that. And I know this is only a story, but imagine if you read in the paper that a mother had covered up for her son when he killed a girl in an argument would you still be sitting there saying ' oh well that's perfectly understandable? ' of course not! There would be outrage against the mother!
I agree about folks justifying Jane actions as though they are perfectly normal. You've even got some being very negative about Peter not joining in the group hug. The only interesting thing now is what is Peter going to do.
I don't understand everyone complaining about the case file and lack of clues. If they put Bobby in there it would have stuck out a mile. How could he have moved the body? What was his motive?
Anyway , in effect , it was Jane and a whole bunch of people who hit her that night. Jane's not stock free in this.
I think Bobby should've been in there, I assumed that most on the suspect list wouldn't be able to move a body, I think I only thought, Max, Peter and Lee could!
But realistically, this is really all about Jane. We'd had none of this if she called an ambulance and/or the police. All the Lucy death secrets are down to Jane. Bobby clobbered Lucy, but after that, it was Jane. They really should let people who put Jane down in the compeition win. Plus maybe Max, Abi, Denise and Jake. Her nose was bleeding when she left Jake, so something wasn't right. Maybe it is like Death on the Orient Express, they all helped kill her
Re Bobby- it seems that Jane told him he wasn't to blame, I would imagine she told him to keep quiet and let it be their secret and kids will do this if that's what they're told. I imagine the newspapers clippings and lieing where she died was him trying to suss it all out and maybe feeling some guilt But I guess if Jane kept telling him to stay quiet he would, especially if he did think he may have killed her. Not many kids would admit to doing wrong at that age, if they're told to be quiet they will if they know it stops them from getting into trouble.
Plus DTC said they thought about 'We need to talk about Kevin; so there could be a more darker, Bobby being a sociopath thing going on. In that case, he really won't say anything. I dunno if EE would go there, but if they were thinking about that, have to wonder if they will.
I agree about folks justifying Jane actions as though they are perfectly normal. You've even got some being very negative about Peter not joining in the group hug. The only interesting thing now is what is Peter going to do.
I don't think people think it's normal,but they can see where she's coming from, especially re covering for Bobby.
I think the dumping of the body is what's getting people. The thing is, out of all the suspects, who could you see dumping her? Max maybe? But that's about it. So dumping was always going to be an issue. I guess we're seeing another side to Jane a focused, cold, will do what she has to do, however awful, as she is determined to protect Bobby. It ain't pretty or nice but was it ever gonna be? Even if Max did it, would you be 'oh that's alright then'?
Remember people on here couldn't see how anyone could actually dump her and therefore thought she staggered onto the common and died. It was never gonna be easy to accept for anyone.
The one thing that Laurie did was show how totally single minded Jane was about protecting Bobby. There was no dithering, no saying she wished she'd done something else, just total and utter cover for him, regardless of what she'd have to do to achieve that. It's a side to Jane we haven't seen, although we do know she lived for her kids (well when she was doing her EE stints anyway!!!) I think the dumping was to show how single minded, obsessed about protecting him, she was.
EE has focused on parents and kids. Phil and his covering for Ben, with Heather and then with the phone and purse. Shirley supporting her rapist son. Sharon believeing her he-devil child is an angel. Dot and Nick, over the years. Yes these are different, but they're the same theme. This is another example.
I'm not saying this is a normal reaction, but there are people who will do anything for their kids, regardless of how nasty it is. Jane convinced me she would do that. The way she spoke made me realise that there was something not quite right about Jane for her to do that, but because of that, she would do it.
Havnt posted since last night, thought the ep was stupid and cheesy, cant believe theyre just closing it up now, god its so rubbish, lost interest completely now but it was fun while it lasted
I agree. I cannot believe what a joke this has all turned into after seeming so good and exciting. All the fantastic theories people have had which are much, much better than this shit... ffs. The show's a laughing stock. I know so many people who don't watch/haven't watched for years who tuned in this week and whose responses are largely "lol wtf, won't be wasting time with that again." So non/very casual viewers find it awful, very dedicated viewers like a lot of posters here find it awful, in the middle type viewers like my mum find it awful... who the **** was this for? I'm genuinely deeply embarrassed to call myself a long term viewer after this.
The thing is, so much of it doesn't make sense to me. There are so many inexplicable things. Like how the flick Summerhayes managed to work so much out, for a start off. And then Lauren?
Lee saw more than he ever let on - he said he saw her, followed her and she was having a row with Billy when he caught up with her. He didn't mention speaking to her afterwards and persuading her to go to the party later. Or that she told him what she'd be doing that evening, ie, going to the flats, working, going to see her Dad to sort things out. Why didn't he mention any of this?
And re Lucy going to the flats to meet a client - we knew Lauren was due to go, but told Lucy that she didn't need to know as 3 people had cancelled. So was Jake a 4th that Lauren just coudn't be bothered to turn up to?
How did Lucy get to know Ben was out? We knew Jay did, but not Lucy. He told her? And what was Miami all about? Maybe we'll find all that out.
Also, what on earth gave Billy the idea that he and Lucy were... 'you know'? What had gone on between them before to make him think that? He's not exactly the cock-sure type who fancies their chances with any young girl. (Unlike Max )
And has anyone figured out what the clues in the Children in Need thing were? I haven't bothered.
Surely Bobby would have told his dad about hitting her and shared his worries that he hit her at some point in the aftermath? Unless he doesn't feel guilty about it and is in fact one messed up kid?
Thanks, and yeah its weird hard to rationalise it in my head to be fair.
It seems a shame this story line has ended. I would have liked a more structured and believable ending to saga but we will have to wait another 5 years for the next anniversary and see what they come up with?
It is like waiting for World Cups and Olympic games every few years.:D
mattxfactor Agree totally with your post. I wrote somewhere (god knows which thread, I've lost track) that to have Ian accept that Bobby killed his daughter and then decide to keep it a secret in the space of half an hour was ridiculous. They could have shown Ian struggling with his conscience for days or weeks and needing to be away from Jane and Bobby whilst he tried to work out what to do. But no, the 10 months of angst and pain at lucy's death was neatly wrapped up in half an hour.
Jane's character has also been destroyed ; her actions were not those of a caring or compassionate woman, but of one who can see no wrong in her child. I've read so many posts where people are actually justifying her actions saying any mother would do the same. I disagree. As a parent, it is your responsibility to teach your child right and wrong, and yes sometimes bad things happen but you need to teach your child that they have to step up and take responsibility. I would argue that if you truly love your child you would teach them that actions have consequences and if you do something wrong you must be punished for that. And I know this is only a story, but imagine if you read in the paper that a mother had covered up for her son when he killed a girl in an argument would you still be sitting there saying ' oh well that's perfectly understandable? ' of course not! There would be outrage against the mother!
Thanks, yes I completely agree with all of this it was almost annoying how easily Ian took it really.. Peters reaction was the only one that felt real to me.
The overriding element of this story is that because no one has seen anything of Bobby as a character we cant begin to contemplate why he committed the murder. It would have been satisfying to have a suspect with a genuine motive to kill whether it be jealousy, anger, rage. money, unrequited love etc. Then we could have been on this thread and discussed how well developed the mystery and suspense of the story line.As a result there was no degree of pathos for us to debate about the character and why the suspect took to killing.
The only winner here was the bookies...a 14 runner horse race & the 15th horse wins...Those who had studied the case file & watched the show as a sleuth had rightly assumed Jane was covering for someone close & it ends with the only person she was close to that was not on the suspect list & who had virtually no input in the story...It was my 1st bet on a tv show & last...I'm sure a lesson learned for other occasional punters
I don't think people think it's normal,but they can see where she's coming from, especially re covering for Bobby.
I think the dumping of the body is what's getting people. The thing is, out of all the suspects, who could you see dumping her? Max maybe? But that's about it. So dumping was always going to be an issue. I guess we're seeing another side to Jane a focused, cold, will do what she has to do, however awful, as she is determined to protect Bobby. It ain't pretty or nice but was it ever gonna be? Even if Max did it, would you be 'oh that's alright then'?
Remember people on here couldn't see how anyone could actually dump her and therefore thought she staggered onto the common and died. It was never gonna be easy to accept for anyone.
The one thing that Laurie did was show how totally single minded Jane was about protecting Bobby. There was no dithering, no saying she wished she'd done something else, just total and utter cover for him, regardless of what she'd have to do to achieve that. It's a side to Jane we haven't seen, although we do know she lived for her kids (well when she was doing her EE stints anyway!!!) I think the dumping was to show how single minded, obsessed about protecting him, she was.
EE has focused on parents and kids. Phil and his covering for Ben, with Heather and then with the phone and purse. Shirley supporting her rapist son. Sharon believeing her he-devil child is an angel. Dot and Nick, over the years. Yes these are different, but they're the same theme. This is another example.
I'm not saying this is a normal reaction, but there are people who will do anything for their kids, regardless of how nasty it is. Jane convinced me she would do that. The way she spoke made me realise that there was something not quite right about Jane for her to do that, but because of that, she would do it.
Sorry went on a bit there:D
BIB - we've seen bits of this with Jane before. When she first arrived, there was sparks of interest between her and Ian but she was absolutely focused on her husband and caring for him but IIRC she was never going to entertain anything with Ian whilst he was still alive and he was her total concern.
Thanks, yes I completely agree with all of this it was almost annoying how easily Ian took it really.. Peters reaction was the only one that felt real to me.
I suspect we might see some wobbles from Ian in due course when things remind him of the whole situation (or he wants a break from the show ). He can get rattled fairly easily and when he does, he says the wrong thing without thinking, so I doubt Jane is going to get it that easy, they'll be some bumps and rows ahead, I imagine.
But we weren't really given anything from the forensics were we? Could've been worse if they had said they found hairs of many people and then not mentioned Bobby!
Could it be that Jane's car was near their gate? Which means she wouldn't have far to actually carry and as everyone was busying partying, wouldn't see her. I guess we're to assume no one did actually see her and that was that!
Also was Jane's car 3 or 5 doored? If 3, it could make sense putting Lucy in the boot, because getting her into the back of a 3 door would be hard and maybe she wasn't bendable enough for the passenger seat... ok, maybe not.
You do think plan to dump body - boot, taking body to hospital - seats in car. Thought that bit was a bit strange and maybe she actually fibbed a bit, she was always gonna dump her. But not sure we'll actually hear any more about it, so will never know if she fibbed or not!!!
I'm looking forward to what is next too
Nope, just how she died.
Lol I just thought of a random way to select suspects and a way to add Bobby being a possibility, in a way it'd been slightly less obvious way than how they did it with Emma. We may have have questioned him more then. I may myself still thought "nah, he lives in the house so I doubt it", but he'd have been there to look into.
I'd of thought there would have been a possibility of being seen by someone, there people outside. Who knows, Max in the end could have seen something and helped thinking Abi was to blame and cover for her.
I think Janes car is a 3 door, will have to check tomorrow. Will be awkward if she had no help getting lucy in the boot, not very loving imo. Think she's lying about the whole hospital thing. Doesn't make sense. Maybe we'll find out whether it's true or not.
I think Bobby should've been in there, I assumed that most on the suspect list wouldn't be able to move a body, I think I only thought, Max, Peter and Lee could!
But realistically, this is really all about Jane. We'd had none of this if she called an ambulance and/or the police. All the Lucy death secrets are down to Jane. Bobby clobbered Lucy, but after that, it was Jane. They really should let people who put Jane down in the compeition win. Plus maybe Max, Abi, Denise and Jake. Her nose was bleeding when she left Jake, so something wasn't right. Maybe it is like Death on the Orient Express, they all helped kill her
Re Bobby- it seems that Jane told him he wasn't to blame, I would imagine she told him to keep quiet and let it be their secret and kids will do this if that's what they're told. I imagine the newspapers clippings and lieing where she died was him trying to suss it all out and maybe feeling some guilt But I guess if Jane kept telling him to stay quiet he would, especially if he did think he may have killed her. Not many kids would admit to doing wrong at that age, if they're told to be quiet they will if they know it stops them from getting into trouble.
Plus DTC said they thought about 'We need to talk about Kevin; so there could be a more darker, Bobby being a sociopath thing going on. In that case, he really won't say anything. I dunno if EE would go there, but if they were thinking about that, have to wonder if they will.
Indeed there's no mystery in the Beale's handling of things.
Jane told Bobby what happened, he's not the sharpest knife in the drawer. She would also have told him not to mention it to Ian or anyone, and not to say anything to Ian as he was already upset . He did what he was told and Jane took him away so he couldn't say much by accident while the issue was most current . . What he knows or feels is totally unknown. so far. They just made him look a bit too much like Damien in the Omen conclusion.
Ian reached the same conclusion Jane did on Bobby, in a slightly longer time - most of an episode rather than almost instantly . It was clearly signposted as a wouldn't you have done the same as I did issue. As soon as Ian agrees with that logic, and that he would have done the same. the conclusion follows - it doesn't take weeks of thought. Cindy is too young to even vote, and she makes the same decision equally quickly.
There's zero point in sending for an ambulance for a clearly dead body. If an ambulance is called, the whole family will be in the frame, and as there's zero proof other than what Jane says she saw, anyone could go down for it. Jane's choice is to do what she did try - take the blame herself straight away - with all the family consequences of that, and being taken away from Bobby at the crucial time , or to hide the body, and avoid the consequences of it being found in the house.
Ian doesn't get a good option. Either he's left in the dark, or has to face an equally difficult issue, and threats to the rest of the family, while he's still in shock. .Jane picks the first option for him.
There's also no good option on dumping the body. It has to go somewhere where the person leaving it can't be seen, and its going to be in the boot unless there's a van available.
Peter doesn't have any relationship with Bobby - of course he doesn't care what happens to Bobby, or Jane who has committed umpteen offences if it all is revealed. Cindy gets that its better for everyone including Ian.She also notes Peter has no parental instincts. Peter is focused on his own anger - and the show needs a story line to get rid of him anyay.
The plot holes are elsewhere. Why mention taking the body to a hospital - thats too difficult to do without being caught, and there's no point once you know its dead.. How come we have two rows in the house that no one hears, and a body moved to a car without anyone seeing or hearing? How did anyone reach the right conclusions about what happened on the evidence suggested - a left on light and someone else having an accident at home. People forget to switch lights off all the time. People park cars in different places. too. How come the police missed the forensic evidence , and the unexplained phone call around the murder time - not to mention failing to discover all the lies anyone else told about that evening? Indeed, if Bobby or Jane had been convicted on Jane's word, the whole question of which was the fatal blow, that we saw, would never have been discovered by the police ,and the wrong person may have served the penalty.
EE has focused on parents and kids. Phil and his covering for Ben, with Heather and then with the phone and purse. Shirley supporting her rapist son. Sharon believeing her he-devil child is an angel. Dot and Nick, over the years. Yes these are different, but they're the same theme. This is another example.
I'm not saying this is a normal reaction, but there are people who will do anything for their kids, regardless of how nasty it is. Jane convinced me she would do that. The way she spoke made me realise that there was something not quite right about Jane for her to do that, but because of that, she would do it.
Excellent point. As Emeli Sande's song as the end reinterated: "I can't believe what I did for love". Just as Mick killed Dean (or did he) for his 'love' of Linda, Jane willing perverting the course of justice for Lucy for her 'love' for Bobby.
These stories are done to portray the characters as the moral compasses of normal, loving families, but rather to show how people react in extreme, unusual circumstances. And EE has always been about 'faaamily', almost to an unhealthy degree.
Of course Jane did the wrong thing, but no-one is saying she did the right thing are they? She just made an awful decision in an awful situation. She was under untold emotional stress and would've had an impaired judgement. Not able to think about the 'right' thing to do, her maternal instinct to protect Bobby took over, and the family now have to life with the consequences of her lies.
As you said, it's similar to the other parents' instincts on EE: Shirley's instinct is to believe Dean over reason/common sense; Phil's is to lie and conceal to protect Ben; Dot chooses to live in denial of her awful son and make excuses for him. Jane chose to protect the innocence/freedom of her living son, over the justice of dead daughter.
The thing is, so much of it doesn't make sense to me. There are so many inexplicable things. Like how the flick Summerhayes managed to work so much out, for a start off. And then Lauren?
Lee saw more than he ever let on - he said he saw her, followed her and she was having a row with Billy when he caught up with her. He didn't mention speaking to her afterwards and persuading her to go to the party later. Or that she told him what she'd be doing that evening, ie, going to the flats, working, going to see her Dad to sort things out. Why didn't he mention any of this?
And re Lucy going to the flats to meet a client - we knew Lauren was due to go, but told Lucy that she didn't need to know as 3 people had cancelled. So was Jake a 4th that Lauren just coudn't be bothered to turn up to?
How did Lucy get to know Ben was out? We knew Jay did, but not Lucy. He told her? And what was Miami all about? Maybe we'll find all that out.
Also, what on earth gave Billy the idea that he and Lucy were... 'you know'? What had gone on between them before to make him think that? He's not exactly the cock-sure type who fancies their chances with any young girl. (Unlike Max )
And has anyone figured out what the clues in the Children in Need thing were? I haven't bothered.
So many questions, so many questions...!
Emma - It's obvious... something to do with a downstairs light, Janes Car, Max's mumblings, a SOC phone number, something Dean said, lots and lots of bits of paper and being a good detective (well according to Ian!) See,all makes sense *lies* ;-):D
I assume the light being on and a phone call being made to Jane from the Beales and then Janes car disappearing is maybe how. Also something like Jane's alibi for Lauren was a lie, as her car wasn't there. So Jane = baddie! You can tell I don't know right? Would love to know how she sussed it out, but methinks that maybe a very large chunk of dramatic licence may be the key to that answer!
Lee - I guess he thinks it wasn't relevant and also no one on EE bar maybe Dot, likes to tell the police the truth. He was upholding an EE tradition
Re Jake - I know this one! Apparently he emailed LB Lettings saying he wanted to see a flat, thinking Lauren would read it and come and see him. He gave a false name so she would turn up. But Lucy opened the email instead, so she went.
Ben - ermmm... not quite sure why Lucy and Jay would be discussing running off to the US with each other and Ben. I wondered if Michelle invited Ben & Lucy? Like you do. She went to the USA didn't she? And seeing as Ben and Jay are surgically attached to each other Jay had to go as well, They realy should've said they were going to run off to Bognor or something, think people would've been more convinced. Would like to know what that was all about, not sure we will find out though.
Billy - first we knew that Billy maybe fancied her was his alibi where they accused him of maybe fancying her and he was all 'nooo, known her since she was a baby' which actually makes it seem even more ewww! That did seem a new thingy they brought in cos at no point did I ever think he fancied Lucy. Maybe he thought he'd just freak her out by saying that, so nicking the fish seemed like nothing in comparison
Children in Need - all I can remember is 'I love you', Stop it and Lee. So I guess the 3 little words we all want to hear, was for Ian, wanting to know that Lucy did love him as he thought she died hating him. She didn't,she loved him, yay!
There see, questions all sorted... :cool: Bet it's all crystal clear now...
There's zero point in sending for an ambulance for a clearly dead body. If an ambulance is called, the whole family will be in the frame, and as there's zero proof other than what Jane says she saw, anyone could go down for it. Jane's choice is to do what she did try - take the blame herself straight away - with all the family consequences of that, and being taken away from Bobby at the crucial time , or to hide the body, and avoid the consequences of it being found in the house.
Ian doesn't get a good option. Either he's left in the dark, or has to face an equally difficult issue while he's still in shock. .Jane picks the first option for him.
There's also no good option on dumping the body. It has to go somewhere where the person leaving it can't be seen, and its going to be in the boot unless there's a van available.
The plot holes are elsewhere. Why mention taking the body to a hospital - thats too difficult to do without being caught, and there's no point once you know its dead.. How come we have two rows in the house that no one hears, and a body moved to a car without anyone seeing or hearing? How did anyone reach the right conclusions about what happened on the evidence suggested - a left on light and someone else having an accident at home. People forget to switch lights off all the time. People park cars in different places. too. How come the police missed the forensic evidence , and the unexplained phone call around the murder time - not to mention failing to discover all the lies anyone else told about that evening?
The interesting thing for me about Jane's not calling an ambulance is even if she knew Lucy was dead, wouldn't she instantly think to get some sort of help in desperation anyway? To me, Jane saying she was taking Lucy to the hospital was just an excuse - a way of convincing herself and the others that 'she tried'. Because if she really wanted Lucy to be saved, she'd phoned an ambulance or, failing that, drove her to the hospital.... in the front/back seat.
I'm not having a go at Jane, I actually think the script was good because it showed you how Jane was at war with herself; fighting between protecting Bobby or saving Lucy.
Could they not go in for another few weeks of questioning where Jane and Ian sweat on how close to the truth they're getting but this time they discover the fall at the car lot, Abi's slap, etc and rule accidental death? That she'd fell and hit her head on the common nd that no sign of blood is explained by the fact that she'd had head trauma already in the days/hours prior to her bdoy being found. sufficient for only a relatively minor knock to cause a death
Comments
Excellent post. Bobby knows he's done it. He can't not. I know DTC says he doesn't but he is just setting up a story for the future where it is revealed that he knows he killed Lucy. Age 10 is the age of criminal responsibility. It is not an age plucked out of thin air but one based on the development of a child. Too much discussion around this is talking about Bobby as though he is about 7/8. I can understand why folks are applying their own interpretation onto Bobby as they know absolutely nothing about him - zilch. He is a blank canvas so they are free to rationalise the storyline and 'making' him a young child is one way to do it.
Given that nobody upstairs heard Bobby and Lucy there was clearly no major argument. He went down and clobbered her on the head. He intended to hurt her. Did he intend GBH? If he did he is guilty of murder.
As for Jane as you say with her it is the actions afterwards not the desire to want to protect Bobby that is the issue. If she had woken Ian & Denise and they had decided to cover up it would make sense. BUT doing what she did and carrying on as normal immediately afterwards is so callous. She even had sex with Ian on the floor in the spot Lucy died a few days later. Sick. Jake went to prison. Was she really prepared for him to go down for murder to protect herself and Bobby?
This storyline has so many holes in it but for me it is the attempt to make an emotional story out of a grotesque act that is so poor. The audience of EE is being desensitized. How many murderers or accomplices are wandering around now.
Maybe he went to bed. But I agree it seems a big red flag for the police.
All good points, though.
Surely Bobby would have told his dad about hitting her and shared his worries that he hit her at some point in the aftermath? Unless he doesn't feel guilty about it and is in fact one messed up kid?
That's why he got moved out by Jane. But I agree , more than likely he would have said something when he came back.
Anyway , in effect , it was Jane and a whole bunch of people who hit her that night. Jane's not stock free in this. She should have called an ambulance.
Jane's character has also been destroyed ; her actions were not those of a caring or compassionate woman, but of one who can see no wrong in her child. I've read so many posts where people are actually justifying her actions saying any mother would do the same. I disagree. As a parent, it is your responsibility to teach your child right and wrong, and yes sometimes bad things happen but you need to teach your child that they have to step up and take responsibility. I would argue that if you truly love your child you would teach them that actions have consequences and if you do something wrong you must be punished for that. And I know this is only a story, but imagine if you read in the paper that a mother had covered up for her son when he killed a girl in an argument would you still be sitting there saying ' oh well that's perfectly understandable? ' of course not! There would be outrage against the mother!
I agree about folks justifying Jane actions as though they are perfectly normal.
But realistically, this is really all about Jane. We'd had none of this if she called an ambulance and/or the police. All the Lucy death secrets are down to Jane. Bobby clobbered Lucy, but after that, it was Jane. They really should let people who put Jane down in the compeition win. Plus maybe Max, Abi, Denise and Jake. Her nose was bleeding when she left Jake, so something wasn't right. Maybe it is like Death on the Orient Express, they all helped kill her
Re Bobby- it seems that Jane told him he wasn't to blame, I would imagine she told him to keep quiet and let it be their secret and kids will do this if that's what they're told. I imagine the newspapers clippings and lieing where she died was him trying to suss it all out and maybe feeling some guilt But I guess if Jane kept telling him to stay quiet he would, especially if he did think he may have killed her. Not many kids would admit to doing wrong at that age, if they're told to be quiet they will if they know it stops them from getting into trouble.
Plus DTC said they thought about 'We need to talk about Kevin; so there could be a more darker, Bobby being a sociopath thing going on. In that case, he really won't say anything. I dunno if EE would go there, but if they were thinking about that, have to wonder if they will.
I think the dumping of the body is what's getting people. The thing is, out of all the suspects, who could you see dumping her? Max maybe? But that's about it. So dumping was always going to be an issue. I guess we're seeing another side to Jane a focused, cold, will do what she has to do, however awful, as she is determined to protect Bobby. It ain't pretty or nice but was it ever gonna be? Even if Max did it, would you be 'oh that's alright then'?
Remember people on here couldn't see how anyone could actually dump her and therefore thought she staggered onto the common and died. It was never gonna be easy to accept for anyone.
The one thing that Laurie did was show how totally single minded Jane was about protecting Bobby. There was no dithering, no saying she wished she'd done something else, just total and utter cover for him, regardless of what she'd have to do to achieve that. It's a side to Jane we haven't seen, although we do know she lived for her kids (well when she was doing her EE stints anyway!!!) I think the dumping was to show how single minded, obsessed about protecting him, she was.
EE has focused on parents and kids. Phil and his covering for Ben, with Heather and then with the phone and purse. Shirley supporting her rapist son. Sharon believeing her he-devil child is an angel. Dot and Nick, over the years. Yes these are different, but they're the same theme. This is another example.
I'm not saying this is a normal reaction, but there are people who will do anything for their kids, regardless of how nasty it is. Jane convinced me she would do that. The way she spoke made me realise that there was something not quite right about Jane for her to do that, but because of that, she would do it.
Sorry went on a bit there:D
I agree. I cannot believe what a joke this has all turned into after seeming so good and exciting. All the fantastic theories people have had which are much, much better than this shit... ffs. The show's a laughing stock. I know so many people who don't watch/haven't watched for years who tuned in this week and whose responses are largely "lol wtf, won't be wasting time with that again." So non/very casual viewers find it awful, very dedicated viewers like a lot of posters here find it awful, in the middle type viewers like my mum find it awful... who the **** was this for? I'm genuinely deeply embarrassed to call myself a long term viewer after this.
Lee saw more than he ever let on - he said he saw her, followed her and she was having a row with Billy when he caught up with her. He didn't mention speaking to her afterwards and persuading her to go to the party later. Or that she told him what she'd be doing that evening, ie, going to the flats, working, going to see her Dad to sort things out. Why didn't he mention any of this?
And re Lucy going to the flats to meet a client - we knew Lauren was due to go, but told Lucy that she didn't need to know as 3 people had cancelled. So was Jake a 4th that Lauren just coudn't be bothered to turn up to?
How did Lucy get to know Ben was out? We knew Jay did, but not Lucy. He told her? And what was Miami all about? Maybe we'll find all that out.
Also, what on earth gave Billy the idea that he and Lucy were... 'you know'? What had gone on between them before to make him think that? He's not exactly the cock-sure type who fancies their chances with any young girl. (Unlike Max
And has anyone figured out what the clues in the Children in Need thing were? I haven't bothered.
So many questions, so many questions...!
lol I shouldn't of used Postman you get the jist
Thanks, and yeah its weird hard to rationalise it in my head to be fair.
It is like waiting for World Cups and Olympic games every few years.:D
Thanks, yes I completely agree with all of this it was almost annoying how easily Ian took it really.. Peters reaction was the only one that felt real to me.
BIB - we've seen bits of this with Jane before. When she first arrived, there was sparks of interest between her and Ian but she was absolutely focused on her husband and caring for him but IIRC she was never going to entertain anything with Ian whilst he was still alive and he was her total concern.
I suspect we might see some wobbles from Ian in due course when things remind him of the whole situation (or he wants a break from the show
Nope, just how she died.
Lol I just thought of a random way to select suspects and a way to add Bobby being a possibility, in a way it'd been slightly less obvious way than how they did it with Emma. We may have have questioned him more then. I may myself still thought "nah, he lives in the house so I doubt it", but he'd have been there to look into.
I'd of thought there would have been a possibility of being seen by someone, there people outside. Who knows, Max in the end could have seen something and helped thinking Abi was to blame and cover for her.
I think Janes car is a 3 door, will have to check tomorrow. Will be awkward if she had no help getting lucy in the boot, not very loving imo. Think she's lying about the whole hospital thing. Doesn't make sense. Maybe we'll find out whether it's true or not.
Indeed there's no mystery in the Beale's handling of things.
Jane told Bobby what happened, he's not the sharpest knife in the drawer. She would also have told him not to mention it to Ian or anyone, and not to say anything to Ian as he was already upset . He did what he was told and Jane took him away so he couldn't say much by accident while the issue was most current . . What he knows or feels is totally unknown. so far. They just made him look a bit too much like Damien in the Omen conclusion.
Ian reached the same conclusion Jane did on Bobby, in a slightly longer time - most of an episode rather than almost instantly . It was clearly signposted as a wouldn't you have done the same as I did issue. As soon as Ian agrees with that logic, and that he would have done the same. the conclusion follows - it doesn't take weeks of thought. Cindy is too young to even vote, and she makes the same decision equally quickly.
There's zero point in sending for an ambulance for a clearly dead body. If an ambulance is called, the whole family will be in the frame, and as there's zero proof other than what Jane says she saw, anyone could go down for it. Jane's choice is to do what she did try - take the blame herself straight away - with all the family consequences of that, and being taken away from Bobby at the crucial time , or to hide the body, and avoid the consequences of it being found in the house.
Ian doesn't get a good option. Either he's left in the dark, or has to face an equally difficult issue, and threats to the rest of the family, while he's still in shock. .Jane picks the first option for him.
There's also no good option on dumping the body. It has to go somewhere where the person leaving it can't be seen, and its going to be in the boot unless there's a van available.
Peter doesn't have any relationship with Bobby - of course he doesn't care what happens to Bobby, or Jane who has committed umpteen offences if it all is revealed. Cindy gets that its better for everyone including Ian.She also notes Peter has no parental instincts. Peter is focused on his own anger - and the show needs a story line to get rid of him anyay.
The plot holes are elsewhere. Why mention taking the body to a hospital - thats too difficult to do without being caught, and there's no point once you know its dead.. How come we have two rows in the house that no one hears, and a body moved to a car without anyone seeing or hearing? How did anyone reach the right conclusions about what happened on the evidence suggested - a left on light and someone else having an accident at home. People forget to switch lights off all the time. People park cars in different places. too. How come the police missed the forensic evidence , and the unexplained phone call around the murder time - not to mention failing to discover all the lies anyone else told about that evening? Indeed, if Bobby or Jane had been convicted on Jane's word, the whole question of which was the fatal blow, that we saw, would never have been discovered by the police ,and the wrong person may have served the penalty.
Excellent point. As Emeli Sande's song as the end reinterated: "I can't believe what I did for love". Just as Mick killed Dean (or did he) for his 'love' of Linda, Jane willing perverting the course of justice for Lucy for her 'love' for Bobby.
These stories are done to portray the characters as the moral compasses of normal, loving families, but rather to show how people react in extreme, unusual circumstances. And EE has always been about 'faaamily', almost to an unhealthy degree.
Of course Jane did the wrong thing, but no-one is saying she did the right thing are they? She just made an awful decision in an awful situation. She was under untold emotional stress and would've had an impaired judgement. Not able to think about the 'right' thing to do, her maternal instinct to protect Bobby took over, and the family now have to life with the consequences of her lies.
As you said, it's similar to the other parents' instincts on EE: Shirley's instinct is to believe Dean over reason/common sense; Phil's is to lie and conceal to protect Ben; Dot chooses to live in denial of her awful son and make excuses for him. Jane chose to protect the innocence/freedom of her living son, over the justice of dead daughter.
I assume the light being on and a phone call being made to Jane from the Beales and then Janes car disappearing is maybe how. Also something like Jane's alibi for Lauren was a lie, as her car wasn't there. So Jane = baddie! You can tell I don't know right?
Lee - I guess he thinks it wasn't relevant and also no one on EE bar maybe Dot, likes to tell the police the truth. He was upholding an EE tradition
Re Jake - I know this one! Apparently he emailed LB Lettings saying he wanted to see a flat, thinking Lauren would read it and come and see him. He gave a false name so she would turn up. But Lucy opened the email instead, so she went.
Ben - ermmm... not quite sure why Lucy and Jay would be discussing running off to the US with each other and Ben. I wondered if Michelle invited Ben & Lucy? Like you do. She went to the USA didn't she? And seeing as Ben and Jay are surgically attached to each other Jay had to go as well,
Billy - first we knew that Billy maybe fancied her was his alibi where they accused him of maybe fancying her and he was all 'nooo, known her since she was a baby' which actually makes it seem even more ewww! That did seem a new thingy they brought in cos at no point did I ever think he fancied Lucy. Maybe he thought he'd just freak her out by saying that, so nicking the fish seemed like nothing in comparison
Children in Need - all I can remember is 'I love you', Stop it and Lee. So I guess the 3 little words we all want to hear, was for Ian, wanting to know that Lucy did love him as he thought she died hating him. She didn't,she loved him, yay!
There see, questions all sorted... :cool: Bet it's all crystal clear now...
The interesting thing for me about Jane's not calling an ambulance is even if she knew Lucy was dead, wouldn't she instantly think to get some sort of help in desperation anyway? To me, Jane saying she was taking Lucy to the hospital was just an excuse - a way of convincing herself and the others that 'she tried'. Because if she really wanted Lucy to be saved, she'd phoned an ambulance or, failing that, drove her to the hospital.... in the front/back seat.
I'm not having a go at Jane, I actually think the script was good because it showed you how Jane was at war with herself; fighting between protecting Bobby or saving Lucy.