Legitimate, it may be. 'Substantive'? No. Ed's quickly finding out that talking in trite generalities, and failing to put up anything of substance isn't going to wash.
Yet Labour are ahead or at least neck and neck in the polls.
Like I said Cameron even went into the General Election with nothing more than a media friendly slogan for a manifesto. He learned it cost him a majority among other factors.
Labour are at the initial stage of a root and branch policy review. The difference being when it comes to GE day, Labour will actually have a manifesto for people to judge.
The hypocrisy of that beggars belief. Cameron spent FIVE years making the same argument and the Tories on here trotted out the same excuses to support him.
The difference is Labour still have guiding principles, those principles are what guides its opposition to many Tory measures. When it comes to flesh and bone everything is up for grabs as you don't stick to the same manifesto that was comprehensively rejected just 6 months ago.
I see you failed to spot the difference. Cameron became leader after Labour had been in power for 8
years. Miliband doesn't have that luxury and is still lumbered with the baggage of the last Labour government which he was a member of. Criticizing what the coalition are doing to address the mess Labour left behind with no alternatives other than do what we did when in power is not enough by a long way.
Labour's principles to which your refer to seem pretty much what they were before they were chucked out of power as a blank sheet of paper for policies indicates.
Once they had callers on who were not die hard tories on , then the interview got better. Vine got suckered into it & once callers came on that had a brain Vine somehow calmed down.
The issue about the birth certificate, i mean is that the best? Trashing a few restaurants didnt stop Cameron becoming PM.
Milliband knows whats around the corner post April & that this coalition will be on dodgy ground. Cameron can only use Brown etc as an excuse so long. Camerons policies will start to bite very soon & once they do then Labour is well placed to take advantage , as this time the policies wont just hit the poor , they'll hit the very people that helped put Cameron in. The trick is are the English going to be gullable / spineless & take it without a fight? Scotland , Wales & NI know what the tories are all about 1979-97 taught them , its only in this land of the thick where it seems we like being bashed by donkeys & still sit up & beg for more.
Milliband is right to take the Labour party away from New Labour. With whats about to happen a pinkified tory party isnt whats needed. All Milliband needs is a better Shadow Chancellor, & maybe his brother is the man to do the job once the dust has settled.
I've only just started listening to the interview - Miliband is trying to excuse Labour's years of overspending by saying "We've got hundreds of new hospitals"...
I thought we were still paying these off under the PFI scheme,and will be for some time to come? They weren't paid for outright as Miliband seems to be trying to suggest. Same with new schools, etc...
Milliband knows whats around the corner post April & that this coalition will be on dodgy ground. Cameron can only use Brown etc as an excuse so long. Camerons policies will start to bite very soon & once they do then Labour is well placed to take advantage , as this time the policies wont just hit the poor , they'll hit the very people that helped put Cameron in. The trick is are the English going to be gullable / spineless & take it without a fight? Scotland , Wales & NI know what the tories are all about 1979-97 taught them , its only in this land of the thick where it seems we like being bashed by donkeys & still sit up & beg for more.
Milliband is right to take the Labour party away from New Labour. With whats about to happen a pinkified tory party isnt whats needed. All Milliband needs is a better Shadow Chancellor, & maybe his brother is the man to do the job once the dust has settled.
Until Miliband fills in his blank sheet of paper he is going nowhere other than where he already is at which is stuck where Labour were at the last GE.
I very much doubt DM is at all interesting in being part of EM's cabinet.
To read all the Tory crowing above for a moment you'd be forgiven thinking that the Conservative party had been blessed with a leader since 1992 capable of delivering them outright victory. But - wakey, wakey! - that's not true is it? And until that is the case maybe less smugness and more self reflection on the continued failings and 19 years of weak to indifferent popularity of their own party and its leadership might be apt.
Legitimate, it may be. 'Substantive'? No. Ed's quickly finding out that talking in trite generalities, and failing to put up anything of substance isn't going to wash.
The position that 'hard and fast' is a danger to the economy isn't just a Labour opinion, the Lib Dems also believed on the election campaign, and many economists do as well. And that position is just as substantive as the position that 'hard and fast' will enable a stronger, quicker recovery.
At the end of the day it's all predictions and guesswork which is why people are jittery and the economy is flailing around all over the place.
The position that 'hard and fast' is a danger to the economy isn't just a Labour opinion, the Lib Dems also believed on the election campaign, and many economists do as well. And that position is just as substantive as the position that 'hard and fast' will enable a stronger, quicker recovery.
All Miliband has to do to is offer up some kind of substantive alternative suggestions. 'Too hard, too fast' isn't an alternative, it's just trite. OK, so if the VAT rise is wrong, if the failure to increase NI is wrong, etc, say what you'd do! Until Miliband offers any suggestions beyond the trite, it's all just cheap hot air. I like the guy, I really do, but I suspect that he's avoiding saying anything of substance because he knows that what he'd really like to do is just as ideologically-driven as he claims the coalition's cuts to be. I just can't take him seriously as a leader until he sets out his stall, which he's so far failed to do.
Criticizing what the coalition are doing to address the mess Labour left behind with no alternatives other than do what we did when in power is not enough by a long way..
On the contrary, it is tiresome Clegg/Cameron mantra of there is no alternative. thats wearing increasingly thin. That's the stance which is not going to stand up in the long term - as its just this government's refusal to to take responsilibity for it own choices and the consequences of these.
In the immediate aftermath of defeat, the primary role of oppoition is to critique government policy - and boy is there a lot to critique - not to provide a comprehensive programme for government.
On the contrary, it is tiresome Clegg/Cameron mantra of there is no alternative. thats wearing increasingly thin. That's the stance which is not going to stand up in the long term - as its just this government's refusal to to take responsilibity for it own choices and the consequences of these.
Now that did make me laugh. If ever there was a government that won't take responsibility it was the last one, they still won't in opposition. Meanwhile all labour have to offer is what they had when in government.
In the immediate aftermath of defeat, the primary role of oppoition is to critique government policy - and boy is there a lot to critique - not to provide a comprehensive programme for government.
Fine, but don't be surprised when people take the view all you have is a critique and nothing to say on how to sort out the mess you left.
You would have to chuckle at the kinetic light sculpture for the embassy in Madrid if it was not so infuriatingly typical of the way they wasted money.
Why the sarcasm and passive-aggressiveness? Have I been rude to you in this thread? I'd thank you to treat me with the same courtesy that I've shown to you and others in this thread.
There's nothing rude or discourteous, let alone passive-aggressive, about making a simple observation.
Go ahead and demolish Miliband as Labour leader - but dont pretend it's from a position of "fondness"
Fine, but don't be surprised when people take the view all you have is a critique and nothing to say on how to sort out the mess you left.
What voters are most angry and upset about currently, and into the future, is the choices being made by the Coalition. It's policy thats a mess. I think its a delusion to expect voters to be permanently looking back to before 2010 and be focussed, not on government's performance, but instead forever hypothetically musing about "what would Labour do?"
I'm actually happy if the Coalition chooses to do that - weak finger pointing at Labour rather than standing up to defend their record. Because it will be their undoing in the longer term.
What voters are most angry and upset about currently, and into the future, is the choices being made by the Coalition. It's policy thats a mess. I think its a delusion to expect voters to be permanently looking back to before 2010 and be focussed, not on government's performance, but instead forever hypothetically musing about "what would Labour do?"
I'm actually happy if the Coalition chooses to do that - weak finger pointing at Labour rather than standing up to defend their record. Because it will be their undoing in the longer term.
Many people are happy either, to give the coalition a chance or, agree with it that the best way to tackle what Labour left behind is by immediate and decisive action.
It's quite illogical for you to be claiming to know what anyone will be worrying about in the future.
It is also illogical to suggest that Labour's past recent incompetent performance wont be in the minds of many people right here and now.
Labour did leave an economic mess behind them and had no clearly stated plans as to what they would have done about it. Part of the reason for that was because they had to go through their months' long farce of a leadership election leaving the country with no effective Opposition.
And now finally after months of the leadership contest and Miliband's paternity leave and the Chrismas break, after eight months, the Labour leader had a chance to come out all guns blazing and impress us all with his carefully thought out policies. He blew it.imo
I've only just started listening to the interview - Miliband is trying to excuse Labour's years of overspending by saying "We've got hundreds of new hospitals"...
I thought we were still paying these off under the PFI scheme,and will be for some time to come? They weren't paid for outright as Miliband seems to be trying to suggest. Same with new schools, etc...
I see you failed to spot the difference. Cameron became leader after Labour had been in power for 8
years. Miliband doesn't have that luxury and is still lumbered with the baggage of the last Labour government which he was a member of. Criticizing what the coalition are doing to address the mess Labour left behind with no alternatives other than do what we did when in power is not enough by a long way.
Labour's principles to which your refer to seem pretty much what they were before they were chucked out of power as a blank sheet of paper for policies indicates.
That assumes people still buy the "mess left by Labour" line. A large proportion of people NEVER bought it and I hate to tell you this but it is wearing thin even among alot of Tory voters I know.
The "mess left by Labour" doesn't explain the badly thought out NHS reforms being put through that even have Tories worried about the consequences. Nor does it explain the decision to all but wipe out University funding and levy massive increases in tuition fees.
What there is a sense of out there if you bother to speak to people is the belief the Conservatives are making an even bigger mess, and that ordinary people are paying the price of supporting the failure of the rich elite, while they get off scot free. We are not all in this together. That's a fatal mindset for your beloved party if it starts to stick.
God knows, I'm no fan of the man, but even Ed Balls would be a better leader than Ed. He's completely unsuited, and this interview is exposing him badly. The party should have gone with David.
the party did go with David, it was the trade unions who chose Ed.
I've only been listening for the last 10 minutes (will listen to the rest later) however so far he's woeful.
I'm laughing at his deliberate use of "Conservative-led government" at times when anybody normal would just use "Coalition". Seems the newspaper reports were true.
You mean like every coalition politician has to get into every speech about every policy the lie about having to deal with the 'Labour party legacy'. Tiresome isn't it?
I think this is where EdM, as well as a lot of Labour supporters, have badly misjudged the situation. Attacking, without offering any alternative ideas, and arrogantly stating that it's not for them as Opposition to say what they'd propose, is nothing but sniping without substance. You can't ask people to get onboard with you when you offer nothing.
Forgive me but this seems precisely what the coalition's policy is - don't answer any question on your policies just deflect it by saying that whatever terrible decisions we make it's all just dealing with 'the mess that Labour left us with' - it's about time they started justifying their policies on the basis on proper evidence based research instead of spin and ideology.
Comments
Yet Labour are ahead or at least neck and neck in the polls.
Like I said Cameron even went into the General Election with nothing more than a media friendly slogan for a manifesto. He learned it cost him a majority among other factors.
Labour are at the initial stage of a root and branch policy review. The difference being when it comes to GE day, Labour will actually have a manifesto for people to judge.
I see you failed to spot the difference. Cameron became leader after Labour had been in power for 8
years. Miliband doesn't have that luxury and is still lumbered with the baggage of the last Labour government which he was a member of. Criticizing what the coalition are doing to address the mess Labour left behind with no alternatives other than do what we did when in power is not enough by a long way.
Labour's principles to which your refer to seem pretty much what they were before they were chucked out of power as a blank sheet of paper for policies indicates.
Whose hypocrisy?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/i/x31mc/
Starts around the 8:50 minute mark
The issue about the birth certificate, i mean is that the best? Trashing a few restaurants didnt stop Cameron becoming PM.
Milliband knows whats around the corner post April & that this coalition will be on dodgy ground. Cameron can only use Brown etc as an excuse so long. Camerons policies will start to bite very soon & once they do then Labour is well placed to take advantage , as this time the policies wont just hit the poor , they'll hit the very people that helped put Cameron in. The trick is are the English going to be gullable / spineless & take it without a fight? Scotland , Wales & NI know what the tories are all about 1979-97 taught them , its only in this land of the thick where it seems we like being bashed by donkeys & still sit up & beg for more.
Milliband is right to take the Labour party away from New Labour. With whats about to happen a pinkified tory party isnt whats needed. All Milliband needs is a better Shadow Chancellor, & maybe his brother is the man to do the job once the dust has settled.
I thought we were still paying these off under the PFI scheme,and will be for some time to come? They weren't paid for outright as Miliband seems to be trying to suggest. Same with new schools, etc...
Until Miliband fills in his blank sheet of paper he is going nowhere other than where he already is at which is stuck where Labour were at the last GE.
I very much doubt DM is at all interesting in being part of EM's cabinet.
It's difficult to listen to what he says as he sounds as if his nose is constantly blocked
The position that 'hard and fast' is a danger to the economy isn't just a Labour opinion, the Lib Dems also believed on the election campaign, and many economists do as well. And that position is just as substantive as the position that 'hard and fast' will enable a stronger, quicker recovery.
At the end of the day it's all predictions and guesswork which is why people are jittery and the economy is flailing around all over the place.
All Miliband has to do to is offer up some kind of substantive alternative suggestions. 'Too hard, too fast' isn't an alternative, it's just trite. OK, so if the VAT rise is wrong, if the failure to increase NI is wrong, etc, say what you'd do! Until Miliband offers any suggestions beyond the trite, it's all just cheap hot air. I like the guy, I really do, but I suspect that he's avoiding saying anything of substance because he knows that what he'd really like to do is just as ideologically-driven as he claims the coalition's cuts to be. I just can't take him seriously as a leader until he sets out his stall, which he's so far failed to do.
On the contrary, it is tiresome Clegg/Cameron mantra of there is no alternative. thats wearing increasingly thin. That's the stance which is not going to stand up in the long term - as its just this government's refusal to to take responsilibity for it own choices and the consequences of these.
In the immediate aftermath of defeat, the primary role of oppoition is to critique government policy - and boy is there a lot to critique - not to provide a comprehensive programme for government.
But strangely youve yet to elaborate on this fondness
Now that did make me laugh. If ever there was a government that won't take responsibility it was the last one, they still won't in opposition. Meanwhile all labour have to offer is what they had when in government.
Fine, but don't be surprised when people take the view all you have is a critique and nothing to say on how to sort out the mess you left.
There's nothing rude or discourteous, let alone passive-aggressive, about making a simple observation.
Go ahead and demolish Miliband as Labour leader - but dont pretend it's from a position of "fondness"
What voters are most angry and upset about currently, and into the future, is the choices being made by the Coalition. It's policy thats a mess. I think its a delusion to expect voters to be permanently looking back to before 2010 and be focussed, not on government's performance, but instead forever hypothetically musing about "what would Labour do?"
I'm actually happy if the Coalition chooses to do that - weak finger pointing at Labour rather than standing up to defend their record. Because it will be their undoing in the longer term.
Many people are happy either, to give the coalition a chance or, agree with it that the best way to tackle what Labour left behind is by immediate and decisive action.
It's quite illogical for you to be claiming to know what anyone will be worrying about in the future.
It is also illogical to suggest that Labour's past recent incompetent performance wont be in the minds of many people right here and now.
Labour did leave an economic mess behind them and had no clearly stated plans as to what they would have done about it. Part of the reason for that was because they had to go through their months' long farce of a leadership election leaving the country with no effective Opposition.
And now finally after months of the leadership contest and Miliband's paternity leave and the Chrismas break, after eight months, the Labour leader had a chance to come out all guns blazing and impress us all with his carefully thought out policies. He blew it.imo
We are & we will be for several years.
That assumes people still buy the "mess left by Labour" line. A large proportion of people NEVER bought it and I hate to tell you this but it is wearing thin even among alot of Tory voters I know.
The "mess left by Labour" doesn't explain the badly thought out NHS reforms being put through that even have Tories worried about the consequences. Nor does it explain the decision to all but wipe out University funding and levy massive increases in tuition fees.
What there is a sense of out there if you bother to speak to people is the belief the Conservatives are making an even bigger mess, and that ordinary people are paying the price of supporting the failure of the rich elite, while they get off scot free. We are not all in this together. That's a fatal mindset for your beloved party if it starts to stick.
the party did go with David, it was the trade unions who chose Ed.
You mean like every coalition politician has to get into every speech about every policy the lie about having to deal with the 'Labour party legacy'. Tiresome isn't it?
Forgive me but this seems precisely what the coalition's policy is - don't answer any question on your policies just deflect it by saying that whatever terrible decisions we make it's all just dealing with 'the mess that Labour left us with' - it's about time they started justifying their policies on the basis on proper evidence based research instead of spin and ideology.